What is DIVINE (GOD'S WORDS)?
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Peace AB,
what load of non sense those ranters come with for the last 1400 years
Interesting point. The same arguments that have been there from when quran was written down, are still being used today.
831 And if Our revelations are recited to them, they Say We have listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This is nothing but tales of the ancients!
255 And they said Tales of the people of old, he wrote them down while they were being dictated to him morning and evening.
215 They said No, these are just bad dreams; no, he made it up; no, he is a poet. So let him bring us a sign like those who were sent before.
- And if Our revelations are recited to them, they Say We have listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This is nothing but tales of the ancients!
5921 Had We sent down this Quran to a mountain, you would have seen it trembling, crumbling, out of reverence for God. And such are the examples We cite for the people, that they may reflect.
Peace
What can I say bro, well, the Quran is the terminator of these non sense, how great to read in it what we see and hear around us?, i guess it impresses you as it does with me
Take care bro and keep the strong faith in our God
Salam
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Peace Phoenix,
These are quotes from your last post.
This is just a "theory." What is it based on? well, the first thing is the fact that so far i havn't been able to find anything in the quran that people cannot discover for themselves.
I didn't know that what i said was also in the quran. I learned that myself. I don't know from where, but not the quran.
The purpose of the Quran, it seems then, is to help us, guide us, and save us from hardships we would encounter without this guide.
Pleas clarify, coz I'm confusedPeace
I swear bro, i didn't read that comment before I posted my long reply to brother phonix, but it seems we have a red hand case in hand
take care
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peace Zenje, Ahmed
Sorry about not being clear.
The way we learn things is through experience. We cannot know what something is without experiencing it. So if we want to know something is bad, we need to experience that bad thing to learn from it. The Quran, and every other piece of knowledge and guidance, makes it easier for us because we don't have to experience it to know that it is bad. And that "proof" i was talking about was that i came up with the conclusion on how to distribute the money without knowing that the quran said the same thing. We don't have to read the quran to know what is right and what is wrong.
But forget about everything because these are just trivial details (which i bet none of us will ever agree on).
These are my main points
-is it "God alone" or "God and Quran alone?"
is it really necessary for us to read the quran and follow it exactly to connect to God?
would mankind lose it's way if every copy of the Quran dissappeared?
Does God really need a book to carry His message?
Should we use the Quran as a useful piece of guidance (whether divine or not) or should we make it an idol that we must accept and follow and even worship to achieve salvation?
please answer those questions and help me help you help me help myself. -
What can I say bro, well, the Quran is the terminator of these non sense, how great to read in it what we see and hear around us?, i guess it impresses you as it does with me
Its a wonderful historical book to read from which one can learn, understand and reflect, just like any other spiritual and jurisprudent books along with real events/circumstances which REALITY calls out for; "hands-on facts". Several "wisdom quotes", poetry and touching songs are quite enchanting and can easily become "Allah's Words", come to think of it. sun
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and Ahmed,
what does "red hand case" mean??
LOL bro
it is an expression I made that is metaphorical of being caught red handed, you know the word Yad is used in many metaphorical ways in the Quran
Cheers
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What can I say bro, well, the Quran is the terminator of these non sense, how great to read in it what we see and hear around us?, i guess it impresses you as it does with me
Its a wonderful historical book to read from which one can learn, understand and reflect, just like any other spiritual and jurisprudent books along with real events/circumstances which REALITY calls out for; "hands-on facts". Several "wisdom quotes", poetry and touching songs are quite enchanting and can easily become "Allah's Words", come to think of it. sun
mate, as far as i saw in my life no book has reached that amazing level of making all people itchy about it but the Quran
look at ya for example, you are very itchy about the Quran
Salam
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Peace be with you Phoenix,
I will try to answer your questions with more questions, perhaps you will think about them.
-is it "God alone" or "God and Quran alone?"
Is it one or the other?is it really necessary for us to read the quran and follow it exactly to connect to God?
Perhaps not a must, but why not?would mankind lose it's way if every copy of the Quran dissappeared?
Is this a real question?Does God really need a book to carry His message?
The God does not need anything.Should we use the Quran as a useful piece of guidance (whether divine or not) or should we make it an idol that we must accept and follow and even worship to achieve salvation?
Quran is for our guidance. No one here disagrees with that. Why the insistence to go one extreme or the other? Why refuse the guidance when it has been given to you for your benefit? Why is it, that when one adheres to quran as God's words, he/she "worships" quran?Peace
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peace Zenje,
Is it one or the other?
i think God alone is enough.
Perhaps not a must, but why not?
exactly. it's not a must. It is a great book, but if one does not have access to it, or one cannot find any guidance in it, then does one have to follow it in order to achieve heaven?
would mankind lose it's way if every copy of the Quran dissappeared?
Is this a real question?yes it was. But i think i got your answer. which is "no."
Quran is for our guidance. No one here disagrees with that. Why the insistence to go one extreme or the other? Why refuse the guidance when it has been given to you for your benefit? Why is it, that when one adheres to quran as God's words, he/she "worships" quran?
following the quran is not what i have a problem with. I follow it myself. What I call worship is not when a person calls the quran God's words but when it is treated like this indestructible, perfect book and any kind of comment questioning that is replied with anger. And when people take everything in the quran literally and believe in it even though the literal interpretation makes no sense. That is believing in something blindly. Not because it is good, but because they are compelled to follow what they believe is the word of God.
Maybe it is perfect, but is that what the important message is? is the purpose of the quran to prove to us that the quran is the word of God?
If someone denies that the Quran is the word of God but still follows it's message, does that mean that person is a rejector?
My point is, why can't we just take guidance from it, follow it's rules and principles, and leave it at that.
Use for what it is supposed to be used. Do we not have trust in it's message that we have to convince others that it has divine origins? -
Peace Phoenix,
i think God alone is enough.
As do I.It is a great book
Aye, it's that... and then some.
but if one does not have access to it...
Aye
or one cannot find any guidance in it
then one wasn't looking for guidance, was one?yes it was. But i think i got your answer. which is "no."
No, my question was is this real?... all qurans dissappearing in the world! Let's put it this way, If that happens, then I'll have an answer for you then.following the quran is not what i have a problem with. I follow it myself.What I call worship is not when a person calls the quran God's words but when it is treated like this indestructible, perfect book and any kind of comment questioning that is replied with anger.
First, If you follow the quran, truly, then you believe it's God's words. If you don't believe it's God's words, then you don't follow it, truly. (Generally speaking, not you specifically) Second, it is perfect, I am yet to find a close second, but I am open to suggestions. Replying with anger, has got nothing to do with the book, or God, that is the individual's emotional reaction. Just as one probably wouldn't be all happy and joyful if their mother were insulted. Just an example, let's not get into that, please.And when people take everything in the quran literally and believe in it even though the literal interpretation makes no sense. That is believing in something blindly.
I think we have established that there is no one (not secterian nor otherwise) that believe that EVERYTHING in quran is literal, so let's not keep throwing this out like it's real. Something that makes sense to me, may not make sense to you and neither party is wrong, agreed?Not because it is good, but because they are compelled to follow what they believe is the word of God.
For some, maybe even many, this may be true, but this case does not apply to all. For example, I believe that quran is the word of God without a shadow of a doubt. Does this mean that I can scientifically/rationally convince you?.. no. And because of that, am I then believing blindly?... let God be the judge of that.Maybe it is perfect, but is that what the important message is?
The important message, whatever you believe it to be, is perfect. But no, perfection is not the point.If someone denies that the Quran is the word of God but still follows it's message, does that mean that person is a rejector?
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but if you've rejected God's words, then yes, you're a rejector. I don't see how one would REJECT God's word, and then follow it at the same time though.My point is, why can't we just take guidance from it, follow it's rules and principles, and leave it at that.
But that's what we strive to do! sunDo we not have trust in it's message that we have to convince others that it has divine origins?
I don't try to convince others, that's an exercise in futility, especially when others are not interested in learning from it.I hope we have come closer to understanding eact other.
Peace be with you.