Do we think from "heart" or "brain"?
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Salams
At various occasions, Quran talks about people hiding thoughts in their heart/chest and people having diseases in their hearts. Few related verses I have copied and pasted below, although there are many places in Quran where heart (qalb) and chest (sadoor) is used in this context.
Some websites have gone to the extent of saying that today science has proved that we think from our hearts. I am not convinced. To me we think from our brains. Heart simply pumps the blood. Yes brain tells the heart how fast the blood should be pumped. All emotions and thoughts are felt in the brain, not in the heart/ chest. Spinal cord contains cells (neurons) capable of thinking but definitely not the heart. Unless I am missing something?
Was'nt it a general understanding in 1400 AD time that the "heart" is the organ where all feelings are felt. Correct me if I am wrong.
Having said that, I would expect the word of God to not use the words "heart" and "chest" in the context which is scientifically incorrect.
I know either I am looking at this from wrong perspective or I am missing something here. Whenever I see this usage in Quran it makes me ponder why God is saying that we think from our "heart" , when in reality we think from our "mind".
Help!!! Thanks.
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YaAAlamu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi wayaAAlamu ma tusirroona wama tuAAlinoona waAllahu AAaleemun bithati alssudoori
YUSUFALI He knows what is in the heavens and on earth; and He knows what ye conceal and what ye reveal yea, Allah knows well the (secrets) of (all) hearts.
PICKTHAL He knoweth all that is in the heavens and the earth, and He knoweth what ye conceal and what ye publish. And Allah is Aware of what is in the breasts (of men).
SHAKIR He knows what is in the heavens and the earth, and He knows what you hide and what you manifest;and Allah is Cognizant of what is in the hearts.
KHALIFA He knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and He knows everything you conceal and everything you declare. GOD is fully aware of the innermost thoughts.064.011
Ma asaba min museebatin illa bi-ithni Allahi waman yu/min biAllahi yahdi qalbahu waAllahu bikulli shay-in AAaleemun
YUSUFALI No kind of calamity can occur, except by the leave of Allah and if any one believes in Allah, (Allah) guides his heart (aright) for Allah knows all things.
PICKTHAL No calamity befalleth save by Allah's leave. And whosoever believeth in Allah, He guideth his heart. And Allah is Knower of all things.
SHAKIR No affliction comes about but by Allah's permission; and whoever believes in Allah, He guides aright his heart; and Allah is Cognizant of all things.
KHALIFA Nothing happens to you except in accordance with GOD's will. Anyone who believes in GOD, He will guide his heart. GOD is fully aware of all things.002.204
Wamina alnnasi man yuAAjibuka qawluhu fee alhayati alddunya wayushhidu Allaha AAala ma fee qalbihi wahuwa aladdu alkhisami
YUSUFALI There is the type of man whose speech about this world's life May dazzle thee, and he calls Allah to witness about what is in his heart; yet is he the most contentious of enemies.
PICKTHAL And of mankind there is he whoso conversation on the life of this world pleaseth thee (Muhammad), and he calleth Allah to witness as to that which is in his heart; yet he is the most rigid of opponents.
SHAKIR And among men is he whose speech about the life of this world causes you to wonder, and he calls on Allah to witness as to what is in his heart, yet he is the most violent of adversaries.
KHALIFA Among the people, one may impress you with his utterances concerning this life, and may even call upon GOD to witness his innermost thoughts, while he is a most ardent opponent. -
Hi,
Greeks should be spoken to in greek language and not french, for them to understand.
Peace!
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Hi,
Greeks should be spoken to in greek language and not french, for them to understand.
Peace!
Peace
But what if the book is for both Greek and French? This book is for all eras including 1400 AD and 2003 AD and it must stand free of errors.
Quran has dealt with other topics like "shadow movement" in such a way that people in both eras were satisfied. I am sure it was not difficult for God to do the same with the issue of "heart/chest/mind".
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Hi OracleMir,
But what if the book is for both Greek and French? This book is for all eras including 1400 AD and 2003 AD and it must stand free of errors.
Quran has dealt with other topics like "shadow movement" in such a way that people in both eras were satisfied. I am sure it was not difficult for God to do the same with the issue of "heart/chest/mind".Well, Why do u think people of today still refer to heart while speaking of feelings and emotions? Do they not know that heart is only a vascular organ and doesnt feel?
Infact feelings, emotions etc are to do with level of chemical substances. So, should Quran have mentioned serotonin etc? Sometimes, what it means is what's important.
I dunno, how u see it, But dont look into Quran for facts but for the message, coz thats what its for.Peace!
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Peace PM. ( prime-minister? ).) I agree with you. The quran has (if read intelligently,ra tionally,and in conjunction with ones own knowledge/experience/conscience) an underlying symbolic moral message to it....
It does not contain 'literal' answers,to every question or fact...Especially since most of its readers read it in a non-arabic translation...Surely 'gods message' is available without the need for arabic proficiency? o
Peace all. -
Peace OracleMir
Please be aware all those verses and many more are metaphorical to express what we truely have inside us, using the heart as a representative of the self is a commonly used metaphore in all languages as far as I believe this is evident from all the love songs you hear in all languages
for example a person may say to his lover "you are inside my heart", is really the lover inside the heart?, or again it is inside the brain?, or the barin makes the perosn tink that his lover is inside the heart?
the quran used all examples bro, it used the brain "albab" many times to represnet the ones who can use them properly and think properly, it used the heart in a metaphorical way to represent what is inside us (it is also worth noting that the heart is sort of at the center of the chest", and it also used the chest as a representation of the container of the heart which is inside the chest, the context should make every verse of those ones clear man and sure the way the Quran is talking is exacly as we talk now and surely as they talked back then, this is the amazing beauty of the Quran
The Arabic search engine I have is not working so I can't show you many exmaples of many verses that are 100% perfect according to the context that is used within
Cheers
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Just something people could be interested in, I saw it not too long back-
http//www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/index.html
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Hi Savage Carrot,
Just something people could be interested in, I saw it not too long back-
http//www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/index.html
In conclusion, this study shows that the brain's activity is naturally synchronized to that of the heart, and also confirms that intentionally altering one's emotional state through heart focus modifies afferent neurological input from the heart to the brain. Results indicate that the brain's electrical activity becomes more synchronized during psychophysiologically coherent states. Implications are that this increased synchronization may alter information processing by the brain during the experience of positive emotions.
How does one intentionally alter emotional state through heart? ??? How does the heart percieve emotions? confused Can u explain?
Peace!
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Peace PM,
I think you have to pay to find out However, this is not the first time I have read such studies, according to the article summary-
More intriguing are the dramatic positive changes that occur when techniques are applied that increase coherence in rhythmic patterns of heart rate variability. These include shifts in perception and the ability to reduce stress and deal more effectively with difficult situations. We observed that the heart was acting as though it had a mind of its own and was profoundly influencing the way we perceive and respond to the world. In essence, it appeared that the heart was affecting intelligence and awareness.
The answers to many of our original questions now provide a scientific basis to explain how and why the heart affects mental clarity, creativity, emotional balance and personal effectiveness. Our research and that of others indicate that the heart is far more than a simple pump. The heart is, in fact, a highly complex, self-organized information processing center with its own functional "brain" that communicates with and influences the cranial brain via the nervous system, hormonal system and other pathways. These influences profoundly affect brain function and most of the body's major organs, and ultimately determine the quality of life.Maybe I should cough up the money to read further
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Hi Savage Carrot,
I think you have to pay to find out
Maybe I should cough up the money to read further )Dont bother. It definitely isnt worth it as their theory is very much flawed.
However, this is not the first time I have read such studies, according to the article summary-
More intriguing are the dramatic positive changes that occur when techniques are applied that increase coherence in rhythmic patterns of heart rate variability. These include shifts in perception and the ability to reduce stress and deal more effectively with difficult situations. We observed that the heart was acting as though it had a mind of its own and was profoundly influencing the way we perceive and respond to the world. In essence, it appeared that the heart was affecting intelligence and awareness.
The answers to many of our original questions now provide a scientific basis to explain how and why the heart affects mental clarity, creativity, emotional balance and personal effectiveness. Our research and that of others indicate that the heart is far more than a simple pump. The heart is, in fact, a highly complex, self-organized information processing center with its own functional "brain" that communicates with and influences the cranial brain via the nervous system, hormonal system and other pathways. These influences profoundly affect brain function and most of the body's major organs, and ultimately determine the quality of life.Seriously, SC, this is a Bunch of crap.
Heart is a vascular organ that supplies blood to the rest of the body, and has it's autonomicity.Peace!
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Peace PM,
Dont bother. It definitely isnt worth it as their theory is very much flawed.
How so? They might be onto something, it's worth checking out-
The analysis of HRV, or heart rhythms, is recognized as a powerful, noninvasive measure that reflects heart-brain interactions and autonomic nervous system dynamics, which are particularly sensitive to changes in emotional state. IHM research showing how emotions are reflected in the patterns of our heart rhythms has led to a new model of emotion. This model includes the heart, brain, nervous, and hormonal systems as fundamental components of a dynamic, interactive network that underlies emotional experience. IHM has provided scientific evidence that the heart is truly part of the emotional system, which most people intuitively have known all along. Indeed, most religious and spiritual traditions, regardless of cultural context, have emphasized the value of experiencing and expressing "qualities of the heart"--feelings such as love, care, gratitude, appreciation, compassion, tolerance, forgiveness--all of which can increase heart rhythm coherence.
Below is a sample list of articles published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. For more studies and published abstracts, see the "Science of the Heart" research overview
- McCraty, R., Barrios-Choplin, B., Rozman, D., Atkinson, M. and Watkins, A. The impact of a new emotional self-management program on stress, emotions, heart rate variability, DHEA and cortisol. Integrative Physiological and Behavioral Science. 1998; 33(2)151-170.
- McCraty, R., Atkinson, M. and Tomasino, D. Science of the Heart. HeartMath Research Center; Institute of HeartMath, Boulder Creek, CA, 2001.
- McCraty, R. HeartMath learning enhancement programs improve academic performance and behavior in school children. In Proceedings of the Futurehealth Winter Brain Meeting. Miami, FL, 2001.
- Barrios-Choplin, B., McCraty, R. and Cryer, B. An inner quality approach to reducing stress and improving physical and emotional wellbeing at work. Stress Medicine. 1997; 13193-201.
- McCraty, R., Tomasino, D., Atkinson, M. and Sundram, J. Impact of the HeartMath self-management skills program on physiological and psychological stress in police officers. Boulder Creek, CA HeartMath Research Center, Institute of HeartMath, Publication No. 99-075.
- Rein, G., Atkinson, M. and McCraty, R. The physiological and psychological effects of compassion and anger. Journal of Advancement in Medicine. 1995; 8(2)87-105.
- Luskin, F., Reitz, M. and Newell, K. Pilot study of a group stress management training on elderly patients with congestive heart failure. Journal of Cardiopulmonary Rehabilitation. 2000; 20(5)303.
- Rozman, D., Whitaker, R., Beckman, T. and Jones, D. A pilot intervention program which reduces psychological symptomatology in individuals with human immunodeficiency virus. Complementary Therapies in Medicine. 1996; 4226-232.
9.Lehrer, P., Smetankin, A. and Potapova, T. Respiratory sinus arrhythmia biofeedback therapy for asthma A report of 20 unmedicated pediatric cases. Applied Psychophysiology and Biofeedback. 2000; 25(3)193-200. - Tiller, W., McCraty, R. and Atkinson, M. Cardiac coherence A new, noninvasive measure of autonomic nervous system order. Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine. 1996; 2(1)52-65.
11.McCraty, R., Atkinson, M., Tiller, W. A., Rein, G. and Watkins, A. The effects of emotions on short term heart rate variability using power spectrum analysis. American Journal of Cardiology. 1995; 761089-1093
Seriously, SC, this is a Bunch of crap.
Heart is a vascular organ that supplies blood to the rest of the body, and has it's autonomicity.During states of psycho-physiological coherence, our inner systems function with a higher degree of synchronization, efficiency and harmony, which correlates with improved emotional stability, quality of emotional experience, health, and cognitive performance. HeartMath studies conducted across diverse populations have associated increased psycho-physiological coherence with reduced anxiety and depression, decreased physical symptoms of stress, enhanced immunity, reduced cortisol, and increased DHEA. IHM has collaborated with Stanford University and other institutions in studies, which have shown that heart centered techniques and psycho-physiological coherence facilitate the body's healing processes and improve physical health outcomes. For example, improvements in clinical status have been demonstrated in individuals with hypertension, diabetes, congestive heart failure, asthma and AIDS.
With so many studies and articles abounding on this, there must be something there worth researching. What they say below is definitely within the realms of reason and biology-
Correlates of psycho-physiological coherence include a sine wavelike pattern in the heart rhythms, increased heart-brain synchronization (alpha rhythms become more synchronized to the heart) and entrainment between the heart's rhythmic patterns, respiration, blood pressure rhythms, and other physiological systems. Although psycho-physiological coherence is a natural state that can occur spontaneously while people are feeling genuine positive emotions and during sleep, sustained periods are generally rare.
It's completely natural to try and find ways to bring about this coherence by trying different things, as it is beneficial. I don't understand what's so outlandish about what they are suggesting?
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Salaam All,
I just wanted to say that there are other ways of looking at knowledge. The founder of anthroposophy, Rudulf Steiner, writes that all knowledge that we gain via our intellect is in fact, dead. We perceive empirical knowledge with our intellect, such as chemistry, or mathmatical equations, or pathology of the human body (the end result of a long process), for instance. However, it is with our hearts that we perceive all that is living. It is with our hearts that we empathize with what another human or animal is feeling or experiencing and tells us how we should act or react. This is what is happening now, not what has finished or has never been alive. This is direct knowledge of what another is actively knowing right now. It is this knowledge that is most important by which we are given an active choice in how to behave--in a good helpful way, or in a denying hurtful way, for example.
This is a huge subject and I'm trying to get the main idea into a nutshell. But the point I'm trying to make is that things may not be as cut and dried as we might first think (with our intellect!).
Lisa
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Salaam,
We could look to Steiner for another possible explanation (of course, in the end using Al Quran as Al Furqan-The Criterian)...The anthroposophic discussion on the human heart and its connections to other parts of our human essence (etheric, astral, and ego) would begin in earnest for any given individual at the time of puberty. It is at this time that the etheric structural rays of the body gather in towards the center?with this center located over the same place in the chest as the physical heart is located. Steiner sees the etheric body being connected with man?s impulsive nature. And so, in the center forms the etheric heart of that individual, carrying with it the impulse of the cosmos of which he is a part. Before this point in time, the person?s etheric heart was a heritage of what he received as an embryo, not his own. At puberty, he comes into possession of his own etheric heart?a clean slate as it were, with nothing but the imprint of the original impulse of the cosmos.
So now this person has this fresh, clean etheric heart at puberty. Now what? We must consider a parallel process that takes place about the same time in his development that is going on with his astral body (the seat of a person?s desires, commonly called the SOUL). At the time of birth, the astral body is highly individualized and differentiated?specific to this individual. But, at puberty, as the etheric rays are gathering into a clean slate etheric heart, the astral body becomes undifferentiated and segmented, slipping into the physical organs-- primarily those situated above the diaphragm, except for the heart, wherein, as I?ve mentioned, the etheric is also centered. So the organs are now infiltrated with the astral body of desires but now in an undifferentiated state and here it awaits for new differentiations that will come into more and more from the age of puberty onward. What kind of ?differentiations? you ask?
Steiner tells us that information is stored in the astral body. He states, ??untold things can be inscribed in this astral body?almost all your movements?.all that we do now is inscribed ? the movements of our arms and legs?all we thus accomplish in the outer world is there inscribed. ?Even when we give instructions to another to do something, and he does it, this too is inscribed. In short, the whole of man?s activity which finds expression in the outer world is written into the astral body; thus the astral body becomes configured in manifold ways through all our human actions.?
So, now we have the astral structure recording all that he does and all that he has others do and this is also centered over the heart. From puberty a central organ is created for him wherein all his doing, all of his human activity is centered. The astral body then inserts all of this information into the center of his etheric heart (don?t forget impulses as related to the etheric). Steiner goes as far to say that the heart is then where the joining together with the cosmos and what man does takes place. He goes on to say that ??intentions and ideas come from the ego (spirit), and through the ego?s sympathy with the astral body and all that it does, our intentions, our ideas are inscribed there.? And when we die, we will have a final breathing out of all the rays that were drawn inward toward our center (located over the heart) and all that was inscribed there will be released into the cosmos as the individual?s contribution to the universe (via his actions, intentions and ideas that he had in his life on earth).
As for the physical heart, Steiner cautions that it should not be thought of as a pump?it is not the heart that sets the blood into motion, it is the blood that sets the heart into motion. He states that the heart is more of a rhythmic regulator, the place where polarities meet. The heart can compensate for imbalances in the body (specifically the nerve-sense functions, the breaking down forces vs. the metabolic, the building-up forces) but only for so long before it begins to evidence physical damage.
So, that is, in a nutshell, the anthroposophic view (as best as I understand) of the workings of a normal, healthy heart in relation to the soul.
Just food for thought--ponder it, consider it and weigh the truth that it might hold.
Lisa
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Peace be upon you,
My answer is neither. The thought process happens at a level ABOVE the physical level, which is where both brain and heart reside. We call this abstract faculty "mind". But "mind" is neither heart nor brain. The physical is only a vehicle for the metaphysical.
The heart is used as a metaphor which I am not prepared to speak on inteligently at this point.
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Peace be upon you,
My answer is neither. The thought process happens at a level ABOVE the physical level, which is where both brain and heart reside. We call this abstract faculty "mind". But "mind" is neither heart nor brain. The physical is only a vehicle for the metaphysical.
The heart is used as a metaphor which I am not prepared to speak on inteligently at this point.
Salams
Mind is an abstract concept. Brain is a physical concept. Brain consists of millions of neurons. There is always current flowing through the neurons. The flow current of current results in our "thinking".
That is how the abstract concept of mind is borned. Brain creates mind.
A person with healthy number of neurons would have healthy mind. A person with less number of neurons will have undeveloped mind (often seen in kids and old people).
An heart does not contain thinking cells.
One possibility is that * brain (mind) is responsible for thinking. * brain is responsible for releasing emotion hormones in the body * heart makes us feel emotions as a result of those hormones. That is why a person will still feel the same emotions, even after having an heart implant, as he used to feel before. But you implant brain, the person would feel emotions of the donor.
Quran has to be right in saying that we feel emotions in our hearts. I dont know how we would explain the Quran saying "we hide things in our heart/chest".
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Peace be upon you Oracle Mir,
Mind is an abstract concept. Brain is a physical concept. Brain consists of millions of neurons. There is always current flowing through the neurons. The flow current of current results in our "thinking".
My position is the opposite, that the abstract (metaphysical) faculty of mind creates the "thoughts/images" that RESULT in the flow of current to the brain. The brain is a tool for the mind, not the same thing as the mind.
That is how the abstract concept of mind is borned. Brain creates mind.
I disagree, it is the metaphysical that manifests the physical, not the other way around. For example, all things start with ideas/thoughts. Before we create a physical object, we have to think/envision it.
A person with healthy number of neurons would have healthy mind.
Healthy brain, not mind. A killer can have a healthy brain, but the wrong thoughts in thier "mind".
A person with less number of neurons will have undeveloped mind (often seen in kids and old people).
same as above.
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My position is the opposite, that the abstract (metaphysical) faculty of mind creates the "thoughts/images" that RESULT in the flow of current to the brain. The brain is a tool for the mind, not the same thing as the mind.
Interesting way of thinking!
Your arguments sounds plausible.
I like it.
I never approached the subject from this angle before. -
Peace All,
As of right now, I'm of the opinion that mind=brain, heart=soul. Man has a dual nature, not a triune nature. That being said, the heart is the divine essence - the real "you". The mind is only the processor of information, or the means of experiencing this life.
I don't recall the name of the condition, but a while back, many people were born with a vision impairment that caused complete blindness. A cure was found and these people, some well into adulthood, were cured of their blindness. Upon testing their perceptions, they were asked to decribe the size of a tree in the distance. The older people said something like, "one inch". This was because they missed the developmental part of life where understanding of depth perception was born. So, to them, the tree that was far away was the exact size that the eye perceived with no reference to any depth of view.
Peace,
Tay