Just another forum <---say it isn't so!!
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Peace brothers and sisters,
To all of you who can bear constructive criticism, let this be read with an open heart. For those who can't bear it, you might as well click on the "next" button...
My decision to abstain from this forum not too long ago was due to the picture that revealed itself via self-observation. I didn't like what I was evolving into. However, whether it's addiction or a genuine affection towards the members here whom I've grown to know, I've been compelled to keep reading the posts. What I've seen from the outside looking in, is, to say the least, disturbing.
It is downright embarrassing the way people are all talking to each other the sarcasm, the insults, the condemnation, the splitting into camps and choosing sides. What is this forum about? Are we here just to argue, to find the like-minded and attack the different? (<----rhetorical)
When I found this forum, the reason why I stuck around and dropped off from the other forums I was visiting was because this place actually encouraged free-thinking. This very concept was looked down upon by other forums. I could come here and toss ideas around and get feedback, and in the process, ideas would become refined and solidified. Slowly but surely, progress was being made, collectively. There was an excitement in the air. Most of all, there was genuine tolerance and patience for everyone's thoughts.
It seems to me that many have now barricaded themselves into their current positions, looking for allies and immediately attacking anything that differs. There are countless posts that seem genuine enough, only to be misconstrued into something malicious, or worse yet, the voice of Satan himself.
Please don't take this as a lecture, since it was my own participation in these antics that led me to check myself. I am sharing with you what it looks like from the outside looking in, from the eyes of the thousands of people who visit this forum causally and never introduce themselves.
What example are we setting? How are we any different now than every other so-called Islamic forum on the internet? (<---rhetorical again)
I am asking everyone on this forum to look at themselves objectively, to read your posts over and over again and tell yourself what you see. Is it someone who is inquisitive, sharing ideas and being tolerant of others, or is it someone who is entrenched in the knowledge they have, fighting off the enemy?
I really hope things get better, because this is the last place I have on the net that is actually enjoyable. The reactions I get from this post will dictate my future participation in this forum. But then again, who am I besides some typed words on a computer screen
May peace be upon you all,
Tay -
Peace Tay,
My thoughts are absolutely the same as urs on this topic.
And to be honest, Some times I see hope and sometimes I really dont. -
I think its upto the mods and admins, now, to clean up the forum and also direct discussions into constructive and peaceful exchange of information. Becoz ideally every member should take up this task themselves, but sadly thats not the case. And the current state of the forum is quite bad and sad, partly due to neglect. And if this is how it is gonna be, I am considering walking away too.Peace!
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Peace Tay
How is your meditation going? I agree with you. I am well aware of my weaknesses and my limitations due to lack of Arabic knowledge. I acctually have changed a lot since joining this forum. There are and always will be sensitive pressure points which will really make me angry. The people who come here as open minded open harted have to learn respect the feelings of someone like me not to inistigate those emotions. The members who claim to be very open minded tolerant people who have no hesitation to jusity the gay relationship have problems understanding simple things like showing respect for Prophet Muhammad (SAW). I am and always will be harsh with those members no matter what label you want to stick to me.
Simple rule. Show respect get respect.
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Peace Tay,
The voice of reason and sanity as always.
It is downright embarrassing the way people are all talking to each other the sarcasm, the insults, the condemnation, the splitting into camps and choosing sides. What is this forum about? Are we here just to argue, to find the like-minded and attack the different? (<----rhetorical)
I agree, I also think it has gotten to the point it has right now because of certain reasons some of which include neglect towards the warning signs. I think something just gave somewhere.When I found this forum, the reason why I stuck around and dropped off from the other forums I was visiting was because this place actually encouraged free-thinking. This very concept was looked down upon by other forums. I could come here and toss ideas around and get feedback, and in the process, ideas would become refined and solidified. Slowly but surely, progress was being made, collectively. There was an excitement in the air. Most of all, there was genuine tolerance and patience for everyone's thoughts.
I agree, this place was quite awesome, but something did change along the way and I can only think that everyone doing their thing for a long period of time is going to include some problems and it must be nudged towards some semblance of balance at times. It's been a long time. One of the first people's posts I noticed and totally admired were yours and I'll be rightly pissed if you decide to leave for good. That is not to say I didn't find the place free of chaos and intolerant people. Quite the opposite, but some still shone through and that is enough reason to stay don't you think?!?It seems to me that many have now barricaded themselves into their current positions, looking for allies and immediately attacking anything that differs. There are countless posts that seem genuine enough, only to be misconstrued into something malicious, or worse yet, the voice of Satan himself.
I agree, it's been building up for some time now and quite a few people carry a long list of complaints/grudges close to their hearts which exacerbates the situation. The only sane advice is to read your post and really look carefully at ourselves and bring ourselves back to a balance. This time around, it's not just individuals who feel a certain way, there are 'camps' being made. Whether it is a response to a certain 'camp' that another came into existence is a moot point. It is happening now.I am asking everyone on this forum to look at themselves objectively, to read your posts over and over again and tell yourself what you see. Is it someone who is inquisitive, sharing ideas and being tolerant of others, or is it someone who is entrenched in the knowledge they have, fighting off the enemy?
Very good advice. The only problem is, it would only work if the person does objectively review themselves. Many times it's when one thinks that they are inquistive, sharing ideas and being tolerant that an objective viewer feels that it is not so. Others then might pick up on this and then you have a progression on your hands...that doesn't necessarily lead to any good or better insights.I really hope things get better, because this is the last place I have on the net that is actually enjoyable. The reactions I get from this post will dictate my future participation in this forum. But then again, who am I besides some typed words on a computer screen
I hope so too, whoever you are 'mr. typed words on a computer screen', I love you lots -
Peace brother Tay,
I think we are too much alike.
I left the forum for about 4 months for the same reason as you. I didn't like what I had become and had to do some serious soul-searching.I think the biggest problem was neglect from all of us. We should more quickly remind one another of right conduct, and forbid the bad.
Hope to see you back soon.
And who knows (but God), we may see eye to eye in the future--miracles can happen, right? ;D
Take care,
peaceP.S.
I hope that the brothers and sisters on the forum will remind me if I step out of line either through a forum post or through a private PM. -
Peace,
Yes, i agree with this post. I'm not a long member on this forum, but in my shorttime have participated enough to know there is anger in a lot of people. Is it not against the sunni guy(where is VE anyway? P), then it is against the people who believe the Quran is not divine, but still want to discuss it, or it is against the people who have letten go of the traditional approach, and then the 'we are native (MODERN!)arabic speakers and you're not' group always give real peacefull answers, not.... Instead of sharing, it is mostly defending or attacking. I try my best to be as peacefull that i can, but sometimes you loose it after some persons keep posting offenses or give ignorant answers just to piss you off. These are no discussions anymore, but fights.
I myself had the same thoughts with your post TAJ and also was thinking not to visit this forum not that often anymore. One because i need to do my studies, which i neglect to much, and secondly because of what i mention above. I'm also guilty of forgetting the purpose of sharing knowledge, that is, not to fight over what you're sharing. And this also makes me feel not good, as i'm not that kind of person.
Good post and i hope the WHOLE forum reads it and understand and accepts what it says.
Peace to all
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If you back off from the whole board then you lost
if you believe strongly in your understanding then you have to fight for it, this is the way I live my life since I was a child, but again I have no hard feeling to anyone neither I was ever angry on this web site, you actually never saw me angry and if you do you will know that I never been angry here even with those who defame the Quran, my weapon is my tongue that's all and truly I still like some of the ones that I labeled enemy of the Quran like Danish for example and I ask Allah to guide him inshallah
salam
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Peace bro Ahmed,
It's not about winning or losing. It's about a discussion. If someone is not open to new ideas we leave them be. On the other hand, if someone has raised a point and people have responded to it, one should not run away thereafter. If they feel the discussion is not worth it, then that is fine. Many people have problems with things on the forum, one of which is intolerance of another viewpoint than theirs and another one being of asserting something and then not backing it up, and doing it again and again amongst other things. This has a lot of people at an impasse. I hope all of us can start over learning from our mistakes and doing an objective review of ourselves and how we appear to others and what we can do to make it better )
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Peace bro Ahmed,
It's not about winning or losing. It's about a discussion. If someone is not open to new ideas we leave them be. On the other hand, if someone has raised a point and people have responded to it, one should not run away thereafter. If they feel the discussion is not worth it, then that is fine. Many people have problems with things on the forum, one of which is intolerance of another viewpoint than theirs and another one being of asserting something and then not backing it up, and doing it again and again amongst other things. This has a lot of people at an impasse. I hope all of us can start over learning from our mistakes and doing an objective review of ourselves and how we appear to others and what we can do to make it better )
Sister
you didn't get me
it is about winning the own battle, we don't really battle here if you know what I mean, if you also watch the politicians arguing in parlimant meetings you will wonder how the hell they do all of that?, and I tell you sister discussing religions is far more hot that discussing politics, if you check PalTalk religious rooms for example you will know what I'm talking about LOL
what I'm trying to say as well , we are not in kindergarten here and members should not think of having a baby sitter to comfort them, this is the public arena sister and Lyath should be proud that his board is far more controlled and quite than over 80% of all boards on the net, we just need to be real and sort of get closer together, when this happens I'm sure the feel of being insulted mocked or joked at will disappear
Beleive it or not sister many of the ones I faught with hard on other boards became best mates LOL, and some joined here because of me, see we were once insulting the hell out of each other then we became mates, it is time based thing and I'm really glad that all of us are hiding under their keyboards hence the aggrerssion, imagine we are standing in front of each other, would you think we will behave this way?, I don't think so mate
peace be with you and all
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Peace all. I agree with most posters so far on this thread...There is always the potential for
emotions when sensitive issues are discussed...I myself made a mistake in judging sensitivites when i made the; 'contradictions in the quran?' thread...However,i thereafter clarified what i was trying to achieve,and what i meant by that thread...I also apologised repeatedly for any offense that i caused in that thread...I clarified why i did not respond to every response to my questions...Ie there has to be a degree of respect between posters for someone to respond back,and people shouldnt expect one poster to respond to 10 questions at a time,or rhetorical questions...then claim the poster is running away...
I myself am trying hard to view all humanity as ONE,and not to divide people into factions...I agree i have my 'favourites' on this forum,but that does not mean i will agree with my favourites if i feel they are wrong,or that i will be 'unjust' to people who i disagree with...
Most people on this forum i feel,post in a reasonably decent manner...There is a small minority who use profanity,insults,accusations and a dogmatic, 'we are believers,you are not' attitude... In the real world i can meet these kind of people every day...My aim is not too hate these people,as that can make me unjust to them.....However in the real world there are certain civil standards required of peoples behaviour which should be 'loosely' adhered too...I dont think we need quranic justifications for this....Its pretty obvious...
I feel this forum is a great place to post ideas on the good and the bad of religion... And good feedback can be gained on these issues,even if the feedback is constructively critical...I feel the atmosphere on the forum recently has deterioted to the extent that several posters seem reluctant to post,or enter discussions....I feel this is mainly due to the behaviour of a few KNOWN (MQURAN and AB,and a few others.) individuals who insult,use profanity and are too emotional/dogmatic in their SUBJECTIVE views...The strange thing is the two main guys i am referring too actually have SOME decent ideas and knowledge...They just lack the understanding of how to dicuss respectfully...
I hope and wish that members (including myself.) would respect each other to some degree,and realise that possibly 90% of the topics that we discuss are 'SUBJECTIVE'...This means people are entitled to their views.....Its our job to show if these subjective views can become 'OBJECTIVE' to some degree...
We shouldnt waste,or spoil a great forum by intolerance,rudeness and lack of respect...
You know if some of these 'debaters' were asked to speak on behalf of the muslim community to encourage islam to an audience of people,im afraid i dont think many people would be overly-impressed with the dogma and the dis-respect...
Growth can come by listening and refelecting to other view-points...
If islam and the quran are to have a postive influence in society we have to approach it with an open-mind,and listen to all the views,then follow the best interpretation...(3918,and common sense....)While realising we are humnan and CAN and DO make mistakes in applying and interpretating texts....To this day there is not one agreed upon interpretation of the quranic text....And i tell you what,that is a wonderful thing....Because it allows for different situations,contexts and reasonable diversity/tolerance...Look at the societies that had a 'monopoly' on interpretating religious texts....Taliban,inquisition,oppression of women,barbaric punishments,bloodshed,intolerance,scientific backwardness and general oppression by clergymen.... Do we want to return to this kind of 'sectarian' version of islam?Finally,i do hope that we read others posts,and try to clarify and reflect on what the other poster is ACTUALLY trying to say,and not what we GUESS he/she is saying...
Peace all. I hope this forum remains a peaceful,dynamic,respectful,forward looking place, for much-needed discussions on religion,for all people,be they muslim,christian,hindu,agnostic,atheist,humanist etc,etc...
More of this is needed... group group group welcome welcome welcome -
Peace brother,
you didn't get me
it is about winning the own battle, we don't really battle here if you know what I mean, if you also watch the politicians arguing in parlimant meetings you will wonder how the hell they do all of that?, and I tell you sister discussing religions is far more hot that discussing politics, if you check PalTalk religious rooms for example you will know what I'm talking about LOL
Ah I see what you mean Religion and beliefs are a hot topic for sure, any place where you are going to be questioned turns into an argument sooner or later! I was just on another gaming board and the arguments and mudslinging and slandering over trivial things is quite a sight to be seen.what I'm trying to say as well , we are not in kindergarten here and members should not think of having a baby sitter to comfort them, this is the public arena sister and Lyath should be proud that his board is far more controlled and quite than over 80% of all boards on the net, we just need to be real and sort of get closer together, when this happens I'm sure the feel of being insulted mocked or joked at will disappear
I agree, this board is quite well off but we can make some more improvements! I also agree about getting together on common ground and really trying to know the other person. This way as you said, the feelings might go away. Some after that still might really dislike the other person! ;DBeleive it or not sister many of the ones I faught with hard on other boards became best mates LOL, and some joined here because of me, see we were once insulting the hell out of each other then we became mates, it is time based thing and I'm really glad that all of us are hiding under their keyboards hence the aggrerssion, imagine we are standing in front of each other, would you think we will behave this way?, I don't think so mate
There are good parts and bad parts to everything. Sometimes I feel that being in front of someone, you might not really say what needs to be said. It's a double edged sword I believe.Rgds!
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See sister Nadia
this is what I'm talking about, someone whom I consider dishonest like enq, is going around defaming me and Mquran by name in every bloody post he does "almost", and if he will not refrain from attacking me and Mquran sister, I have to respond to him tough and yet it will be within the forum rules, I guess you may advice him to totally ignore us and stop attacking the personality of me and brother Mquran, he can attack our Quran understanding but if he continues to attack my character then I have all the right to defend myself and I will show everyone how it can be very humiliating and yet withing the forum rules
thank you sister
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Peace all,
Enquirer, I was about to respond to your post when AB posted before me.
I feel this is mainly due to the behaviour of a few KNOWN (MQURAN and AB,and a few others.) individuals who insult,use profanity and are too emotional/dogmatic in their SUBJECTIVE views...The strange thing is the two main guys i am referring too actually have SOME decent ideas and knowledge...They just lack the understanding of how to dicuss respectfully...
Please do not take people's names in your posts. If you have a problem, PM (as you already have) your issues. This will stop antagonizing people otherwise it is a vicious cycle which I'm sure is obvious to you. -
Peace all,
Enquirer, I was about to respond to your post when AB posted before me.
I feel this is mainly due to the behaviour of a few KNOWN (MQURAN and AB,and a few others.) individuals who insult,use profanity and are too emotional/dogmatic in their SUBJECTIVE views...The strange thing is the two main guys i am referring too actually have SOME decent ideas and knowledge...They just lack the understanding of how to dicuss respectfully...
Please do not take people's names in your posts. If you have a problem, PM (as you already have) your issues. This will stop antagonizing people otherwise it is a vicious cycle which I'm sure is obvious to you.Thank you sister
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Peace AB and Mquran...IM not attacking yor off-line characters....I dont know you guys well enough...But i will say its my OPINION that you two have created a bad atmosphere on the forum...I have given proofs of your infractions in bad language and general hostility, to the moderators....I also think that these are not baselees 'accusations' against you and mquran....Many people can see the on-line attitude of you two....Im not alone in questioning you approaches...
I tell you what AB,you seem to consider yourself as some kind of ambassador for islam.(peace.) Why dont you modify your speech and attitude to increase the peace.(islam.) on this forum?...That way we can tell that you are not posting for ego,but for the benefit of Islam.(peace.) And i dont really mind what you say about me....I will lets the lack of outright hostility in my posts do the talking for me...
Peace all. ps;I really wish you two well,and i do not dislike you two....Just got to say it like it is... )
PPS; Savage carrot; I hope you also apply this rule of not naming people in posts,to others as well...And why didnt you pm me with this response?.... -
Peace,
I enjoy this forum and have for the number of years it has been active...The reason is quite simple, I try to apply the wisdom of the Scripture in dealing with posts/people who may be intimidating or out to have some fun at the expense of others and without the true aim of debate/learning
And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the Earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they SayPeace.`` (2563)And if they come across vain talk, they disregard it and SayTo us are our deeds, and to you is your deeds. Peace be upon you. We do not seek the ignorant.`` (2855)The fault is not with the forum (it is a non-living interface)...The fault is with us when we cannot or do not apply the laws/guidance of God and then find that we become angry or frustrated.
Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness. Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them.(479-80) -
PPS; Savage carrot; I hope you also apply this rule of not naming people in posts,to others as well...And why didnt you pm me with this response?....
I apologize, I thought you wanted things transparent on one thread, and you posted about reporting them on two seperate threads on the forum publically. This makes it the third. I will keep my responses to you through PM from now on, I suggest you do the same. Thanks. -
See Tay what happens when you go away?
You been away for only few weeks and the forum is geared upto splitting into CAMPS!
The strange thing is that a lot of people are thinking of leaving this forum and so have I!
And these people seemed to have an intuitive grasp that something is wrong here - that forum is not as exciting and fun place that it used to be.I really do miss that fun part and the excitement part. Many people did come here to join in this fun and excitement and I enjoyed welcoming new people here on this forum. I felt that something important was happening here that young people are thinking for themselves and that forum is indeed making people thinking for themselves. It was indeed making people Free Minds. It was indeed "unplugging" people from mental slavery (to use a Matrix example).
I guess all good thing always comes to an end. It is our Ego (mine included!) that gets in the way of all good thing and spoils it all.
From the first day I met you Tay on this forum I have thought of you as the Spiritual Guide of this forum. And you are indeed a True Spiritual Guide here. You are very much needed.
I hope you do come back. I am sure everyone will taken on aboard all the things you have said in your post.
I hope people start letting people know when their language and behaviour is not constructive so that we can "moderate" ourselves in our attitude and reactiosn to others...
Regards,
Peace Tay.
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Peace savage carrot. You misunderstand me...I dont mind you addressing me publicly....I said 'why didnt you address me by pm'?,to show that you were asking me not to name people publicly,yet you did that to me....I would personally appreciate all infractions of mine,or others to be public...except in low-key or first time offenses...I dont see the problem in being open about myself telling the forum about the fact that i reported AB and Mquran to the moderators,and i have given my reasons too...I just want the moderators to addrees a 'situation', which you will probably agree, has occured because of lack of effective action by the mods... To be honest i will not address you by pm alone,as i fell this is not transparent enough for the forum...
Dont feel im having a go at you...Being a mod is a tough job,and sometimes a thankless task...We should all learn to not take constructive,relevant criticism soo personally and/or emotionally...
Take care,and peace... ) Ps; I think this discussion is nearly done....Lets not get bogged down in detail and counter posts....Id rather create peace,and say what has to be said... )
