Just another forum <---say it isn't so!!
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Peace,
You misunderstand me...I dont mind you addressing me publicly....I said 'why didnt you address me by pm'?,to show that you were asking me not to name people publicly,yet you did that to me....I would personally appreciate all infractions of mine,or others to be public...except in low-key or first time offenses...I dont see the problem in being open about myself telling the forum about the fact that i reported AB and Mquran to the moderators,and i have given my reasons too...I just want the moderators to addrees a 'situation', which you will probably agree, has occured because of lack of effective action by the mods... To be honest i will not address you by pm alone,as i fell this is not transparent enough for the forum...
Dont feel im having a go at you...Being a mod is a tough job,and sometimes a thankless task...We should all learn to not take constructive,relevant criticism soo personally and/or emotionally...
Take care,and peace... Ps; I think this discussion is nearly done....Lets not get bogged down in detail and counter posts....Id rather create peace,and say what has to be said...
I would like to make things clear here. You have expressed a desire to have your infractions be public except first time offenses. I understand, thus my post above. Other people may not like what you suggest or want, if it concerns them. They would like to remain private and have their 'offences' and 'warnings' be private as well. By reporting that you have reported them repeatedly on seperate threads serves no purpose other than getting their goat (which someone has expressed in this thread already) especially since you have already emailed the mods. The action that will be taken will be by consensus and through PM's and Layth having the final say. I hope this satisfies. If you have anything else to add in regards to this topic, please PM me. Thanks.People, carry on and I apologize for the disruption.
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Peace AB and Mquran...
Peace
IM not attacking yor off-line characters....
Of course you are, you are making me and Mquran looking like thugs by mentioning our names along with very general and negative comments in almost all your recent posts, look man, what between us is the Quran, you said you don?t know us and I agree that you don?t neither we know you hence our connection is the Quran, now me and Mquran believe hard on that book as divine from Allah, what you bloody expect from us when you or the likes of you come and say it is not the word of Allah?, this is not what you expect from those who wants to learn the Quran ?logically speaking?, but it is clear as light that you want to promote your own whatever on the expense of the Quran, fine, you can do that but not on a Quranic based web site, there are bloody zillions of anti Quran web sites where you can satisfy your desires, please leave us in peace and stop your numerous posts promoting your own god that you made for yourself, me and Mquran are not following our man made gods, we follow the same God and trying to understand His message better, you will see us differ but we still believe in the same God and the same Book, on the other hand you even tried to stir the air between me and another Muslim brother ?tanveermd? when we differed , how cheap was that man?, I don?t go and tell Mquran that the Quran is not the word of Allah neither he comes and tell me as such while we still differ in understanding it BUT THE SAME CONCEPT IS SHARED BETWEEN US, ONE REAL GOD AND THE QURAN IS HIS LAST MESSAGE, that is why even when we differ we will still support each other against the ones who promote lies about the Quran THIS IS OUR BLOODY RIGHT AND IF YOU HAVE GUTS TO SAY WHATEVER ABOUT THE QURAN THEN YOU SHOULD ALSO HAVE THE GUTS TO LISTEN TO THE ONES WHO BELIEVE HARD IN IT, actually I expect that someone like you who have made up his mind regarding Life/Death and God should go and enjoy life not to waste it in debating something that you say is illusion and outdated, we don?t want to change you, why you want to change us?
If it is matter of learning then you ask a question with respect and listen to those who believe hard in that book, those who have convictions to believe hard in that book not those who don?t believe in it and you bloody cheer them as you cheered Danish and others when they post an anti Quran comment, again this is very cheap to do it on a Quran based forum while you have many anti Quran forums every where to do that.
I dont know you guys well enough..
Of course you don?t and I?m sure Mquran knows that as I do, neither I know Mquran nor he knows me, what between all three of us is the Quran, now you took it one step further by attacking my character and not refuting my Quran understanding which I believe this is the only thing you can do, if you catch me making a silly Quran comment based on a flawed understanding then you have every right to expose it in anyway you wish and I will accept that as long as it is over a Quran discussion, did you see me running around defaming you or mentioning your name ?, I hardly did, in fact I can?t remember that I ever did, I only attack your Quran understanding that is based on your ignorance with the Quran
.But i will say its my OPINION that you two have created a bad atmosphere on the forum...
this is a clear cut lie and manipulation, me and mquran have a strong voice and I?m sure many appreciate it, we convey a Quran message, you don?t convey a quran message, can you bloody see the difference?
Even when we differ, it is still Quran based
I have given proofs of your infractions in bad language and general hostility, to the moderators....
Why not post it again right here right now and let everyone sees it?, I hate those who talk about me from my back, post it now and show me the bad language in it and the hostility
I also accuse you of hostility against the Quran on a Quran based forum, you have to know bro, this place is not really for you unless you listen and shut your mouth, now would shut your mouth is a bad language?, oh yeh we are in kindergarten aren?t we?, please call the baby sitter to comfort you
I also think that these are not baselees 'accusations' against you and mquran....Many people can see the on-line attitude of you two....Im not alone in questioning you approaches...
Don?t talk of others behalf unless they are part of it in here, only talk for yourself and post what you think is bad language right here right now, can I ask you, are you over 18 years old?
I tell you what AB,you seem to consider yourself as some kind of ambassador for islam.(peace.)
See, here is the non sense that must warrant to me giving it hard to you, now I hope you don?t cry though
Why dont you modify your speech and attitude to increase the peace.(islam.) on this forum?..
Excuse me, Islam does not mean peace, this is a lie, it only means submission to Allah
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That way we can tell that you are not posting for ego,I don?t really care what you say about me as long as you don?t attack my character for nothing, it has to be due to a wrong Quran understanding by me and I give you the right to expose my ignorance in any way you wish, I don?t cry though neither I call my baby sitter, I always stand for myself and if you proved my ignorance I will even thank you
I will give you an example
You can say ahmed is ignorant and does not understand verse so and so, if you do this I will not be upset from you if you can prove it, but if you mock me like that stupid comment of considering myself an Islam Ambassador then you have to carry the consequences and I hope you don?t cry for a baby sitter then
but for the benefit of Islam.(peace.)
Again, you are ignorant because the Quran never said that the word Islam means peace, can you back up your ignorance from the Quran and prove to everyone that it is me who is the ignorant?, well , I know what you will do, you will have a runner as always
And i dont really mind what you say about me....
Cool, don?t cry for a baby sitter then
I will lets the lack of outright hostility in my posts do the talking for me...
What?, how about the hostility against the Quran in a Quran based web site that invite others to understand the Quran not to bloody come and slam dunk it?
Peace all. ps;I really wish you two well,and i do not dislike you two....Just got to say it like it is... )
Cool, likewise regarding wishes, now I hope you take my reply like a man and don?t get upset, also I will be a liar if a say I like you but I don?t hate you, I only hate what you say about the Quran on a Quran based web site because I don?t know who are you from the first place
You can actually criticise the Quran without the need to promote that it is not the word of Allah and outdated, are you clever enough to do that?
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Sister SC
I would like to have my warnings in public please
Thank you
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I wholeheartedly agree with Tay's post. It's amazing how much bad blood and hostility would be prevented if we all just followed 2855 more closely, myself included.
Many forums do go through this kind of phase. Like Nadia said, you should see some gaming forums where people argue (read bite each other's heads off) over the Playstation 3/Nintendo Wii/Xbox 360. Yeesh. And that's just videogames.
On the one hand, it is understandable that there is a lot of emotion attached on all sides when it comes to beliefs and worldviews. On the other hand, we are a community who has ties, in one way or another, to the Qur'an and we'd be good to follow its precepts more closely, namely 2855 and 2563.
Peace.
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Salaamun alaikum,
The problem with this forum is, people who have IMPLICITLY and EXPLICITLY rejected al-quraan have been allowed to roam free and create discord. While al-quraan allows for freedom of belief, it doesn't allow for people to enter the masjid of others and cause mischief. So whenever any quranic discussion comes about, we find people
- rejecting al-quraan's eternal relevance
- proposing al-quraan's contradictory
- diverting the issue altogether
- worst of all, LIE OUTRIGHT about al-quraan
Therefore, al-quraan itself becomes ignored or diverted. My challenge to the rejectors was one example. As soon as Enquirer got on, he changed the topic completely and rejected my offer to dance to his tune. What he's seeking is a carte blanche to say whatever he wants in a forum which is quranic. I ask , why don't you do that in your own life? Answer because you'd get lynched. So you need to vent your frustration somewhere. That's the long and short of it. It's the same with the others as well.
I suggest this allow each rejector or detractor of the divinity of al-quraan to propose their arguments. Answer them and make sure they don't skirt the issue. If they refuse but keep plastering the walls of the forum with the graffiti, ban them. Unless stern steps are taken, we will NEVER advance in the research of al-quraan and surprise , surprise, this is what they want.
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Lote-TreeI really do miss that fun part and the excitement part.
Then you should go to Disneyland or Alton Towers. This is a forum where people discuss their ETERNAL FATE. Does that sound like idle banter to you?
Many people did come here to join in this fun and excitement and I enjoyed welcoming new people here on this forum. I felt that something important was happening here that young people are thinking for themselves and that forum is indeed making people thinking for themselves. It was indeed making people Free Minds. It was indeed "unplugging" people from mental slavery (to use a Matrix example).
Thinking for themselves is great. Sadly, they're also being taken for a ride by people who PRETEND to question certain things but will readily skirt the issue if ever questioned.
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Most people on this forum i feel,post in a reasonably decent manner...There is a small minority who use profanity,insults,accusations and a dogmatic, 'we are believers,you are not' attitude...
This is your own insecurity talking. Even when I use the word 'rejector' , I qualify it with 'of the divinity of al-quraan'. Are you or are you not such a person? Don't let your own insecurities fool you into thinking i've condemned you to hell.
In the real world i can meet these kind of people every day...My aim is not too hate these people,as that can make me unjust to them.....However in the real world there are certain civil standards required of peoples behaviour which should be 'loosely' adhered too...I dont think we need quranic justifications for this....Its pretty obvious...
No, your aim is to waste their time. To accuse their religious beliefs of falsehood AND NEVER vindicating your claims.
I feel this forum is a great place to post ideas on the good and the bad of religion... And good feedback can be gained on these issues,even if the feedback is constructively critical...I feel the atmosphere on the forum recently has deterioted to the extent that several posters seem reluctant to post,or enter discussions....I feel this is mainly due to the behaviour of a few KNOWN (MQURAN and AB,and a few others.) individuals who insult,use profanity and are too emotional/dogmatic in their SUBJECTIVE views...The strange thing is the two main guys i am referring too actually have SOME decent ideas and knowledge...They just lack the understanding of how to dicuss respectfully...
Ok, why don't YOU teach me how to be respectful? I will follow exactly what you say. Lets then debate. We'll then see how sincere you are.
fyi its RUDE to ask people to answer then completely blank them or does your 'ethos' say its ok ?
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I also accuse you of hostility against the Quran on a Quran based forum, you have to know bro, this place is not really for you unless you listen and shut your mouth, now would shut your mouth is a bad language?, oh yeh we are in kindergarten arent we?, please call the baby sitter to comfort you
This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Peace
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This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Thank you JM, excellent questions. I would advise everyone reading the thread and posting to please carefully think before doing so. The good response is not equal to the bad response.
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Peace,
The problem with this forum is, people who have IMPLICITLY and EXPLICITLY rejected al-quraan have been allowed to roam free and create discord. While al-quraan allows for freedom of belief, it doesn\'t allow for people to enter the masjid of others and cause mischief.
That is a good and correct observation which will be rectified.
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Peace,
The problem with this forum is, people who have IMPLICITLY and EXPLICITLY rejected al-quraan have been allowed to roam free and create discord. While al-quraan allows for freedom of belief, it doesn\'t allow for people to enter the masjid of others and cause mischief.
That is a good and correct observation which will be rectified.
IMHO, a specific room should be created in the forum to discuss with the people who reject the quran.
And these people should not participate in quran-based discussions.Peace
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I also accuse you of hostility against the Quran on a Quran based forum, you have to know bro, this place is not really for you unless you listen and shut your mouth, now would shut your mouth is a bad language?, oh yeh we are in kindergarten aren?t we?, please call the baby sitter to comfort you
This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Peace
man, this is funny, i hope FM has not really became kindergarten
please call the baby sitter, come on this is one hell of a funny comment O0 O0 yuck
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I also accuse you of hostility against the Quran on a Quran based forum, you have to know bro, this place is not really for you unless you listen and shut your mouth, now would shut your mouth is a bad language?, oh yeh we are in kindergarten aren?t we?, please call the baby sitter to comfort you
This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Peace
man, this is funny, i hope FM has not really became kindergarten
please call the baby sitter, come on this is one hell of a funny comment O0 O0 yuck
AhmedBahgat,
Comments like the above are in no way constructive. They are in fact suggestive of immaturity and lack of poise, there is no other way to describe it.
And before making other similar comments regarding this post, I would like you to take a moment to think of your attitude. I doubt that you are acting like this in real life because it would bring you much trouble, surely it is much safer behind a computer screen.
Anyway, I know I could win if I bet a million $ on your response to this post... Please show me that I am wrong...
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IMHO, a specific room should be created in the forum to discuss with the people who reject the quran.
And these people should not participate in quran-based discussions.Agreed. I would even recommend preventing these people from posting comments to distract people who advocate al-quraan.
The sad thing about this all is, I have actually learnt a lot from books such as
- A Perfect Quran? by 'brother mark'
- What the Koran really Says by 'ibn warraq'
Which helps in order to understand the mechanism of Quran-rejection, the philosophical underpinnings etc. I'd love to have a free discussion with one who rejects the divinity of al-quraan but sadly, they're not for fair-play. They are here to propagate and why they be given that right in a Quranic forum?
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- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
Not at all. Hostility should be for 'mufsid fil ardh'/people who cause discord in the land. Such people aren't doing harm by being hostile to al-quraan per se but by stopping the dialectic process. It's actually constructive to be sceptical, but constructively sceptical. We had critics here who claim al-quraan enforces BRIGANDAGE and booty (and then claimed they studied al-quraan intensely).
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
No, indeed not but I understand AB's frustrations. AB's such a guy who's forthright , whatever his viewpoint is. I really respect him for that. For a guy who's comes out with it all the time, speaking to people who duck and dodge can be frustrating. Whatever the case AB, better watch the language because some people will use any excuse to see you out and we can't have that. Too few people supporting the Book as it is.
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EnquirerPeace AB and Mquran...IM not attacking yor off-line characters....I dont know you guys well enough...But i will say its my OPINION that you two have created a bad atmosphere on the forum...I have given proofs of your infractions in bad language and general hostility, to the moderators....I also think that these are not baselees 'accusations' against you and mquran....Many people can see the on-line attitude of you two....Im not alone in questioning you approaches...
Enquirer, let me remind you of your most beautiful introductory post to me. It's so beautiful that Kahlil Gibran himself would be moved to tears
Peace mquran. Do you think all of the quran is literally relevent to todays society? Do you take the quran as superior to what you can see/verify with your own mind/eyes? Where is bird flu,aids,nuclear weapons,global warming,chemistry,medical breakthroughs,cancer,chemical warfare,social statistics,social research,psychological research,esp,detailed dream analysis,quantum physics,gulf wars,tsunamis,pregnancy tests,pregnancy scans, etc.. directly in the quran?
How arrogantly you came in. And this, my good man, was my response
Peace and blessings upon you.
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Do you think all of the quran is literally relevent to todays society?Yes i do.
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Do you take the quran as superior to what you can see/verify with your own mind/eyes?Yes I do.
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Where is bird flu,aids,nuclear weapons,global warming,chemistry,medical breakthroughs,cancer,chemical warfare,social statistics,social research,psychological research,esp,detailed dream analysis,quantum physics,gulf wars,tsunamis,pregnancy tests,pregnancy scans, etc.. directly in the quran?Not there.
Question does this make al-quraan deficient or is your categorisation system itself deficient. If you feel al-quraan is deficient, why don't you produce a coherent treatise like it?
You see, Enquirer. I answer questions directly as I'm not afraid to. And was I IN ANY WAY impolite? Now Look at your response to this
Peace mquran. If you say you put the quran before your own eyes/minds verification process,then how do you know that your mind is correct in verifying that the quran is correct? Would you allow whippings,right hand posession and amputations in todays western societies? Yes,i feel quran is relatively deficient, in that it does not explain or answer every question in life.(but then why should a mans words do all that anyway?) I feel it can be a useful book,but not the permanent,perfect,complete constitution for all times. You claim that the quran is a coherent treatise? Well not for many people...,a lot of 'quran only' posters have not even come to a uniform agreement on what salat is...,never mind how to treat the quran as a 'coherent treatise'.
Ok,here is my small,incomplete,subjective,fallible,deficient treatise for success;
'Keep your minds open,and keep doing good deeds.'...
Thats as coherent as any verse of the quran is...So you can stop these LIES , sir. I'd be more than happy to play nice with you as soon as YOU PLAY NICE first. Don't pretend to be some holy saint when you're really here to cause fasad.
I hope Layth really does enforce discipline on you and your associates who keep trying it on.
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MQuran relax. Don't you know that they are doing this to have fun? I really don't take them very seriously and most of the time ignore them because they will not understand a single word of Allah until they have faith that this whole message is from Allah the Creator of this Universe and our Lord.
