What is a kafir?

Tay

Peace All,

Well, it started out OK, but this thread has spun way out of control. No offense to anybody here, but, my intention was for a cooperative effort to understand what the term "kafir" means, according to the Qur'an, so that the members and casual readers can gain some understanding.

So, please, if you have nothing more to add to the meat of this discussion, then save it for another topic, no matter how compelled you are to reply. And if anyone else has something to add to understanding what a "kafir" is, then please disregard the current state of this thread and let's get is back on track.

Peace,
Tay

Tay

Peace Layth,

You stated
Peace Tay,

I somewhat agree with you...A Kafir is someone who rejects.

But, that does not nessesarily mean that he/she has heard the message as he/she may be rejecting the concept of God or nature itself.

I agree, and my apologies for not specifying, but when I say "divine guidance", I'm including the extra-quranic signs. So, we both agree that a kafir is one who has "seen" or "heard" the guidance in some fashion, yet still goes on to reject it. Dare we delve deeper into understanding this by saying that the person would have had to come to understand the guidance as originating from Allah, yet still reject it? Or does it not matter whether or not the person has understood what he/she has witnessed?

Peace,
Tay

phoenix1

peace Tay,

Dare we delve deeper into understanding this by saying that the person would have had to come to understand the guidance as originating from Allah, yet still reject it? Or does it not matter whether or not the person has understand what he/she has witnessed?

Truth is always from God, so a person who rejects the truth is rejecting God. It does matter whether a person understands or not because a person who doesn't make the effort to understand anything, will never discover the truth. He/she will only believe (and believe anything).
So we have to understand everything, then pick which one is true, then follow it.

Tay

Peace enquirer,

You stated

I think verses 2224-225 should make people think twice about this 'ritual' of branding people as kafirs

Excellent point.
2224-225
And do not make God the subject of your casual oaths. Be pious and righteous and reconcile among the people; and God is Listener, Knower. God will not call you to account for your casual oaths, but He will call you to account for what has entered your hearts. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

Is it fair to say, then, that someone who has not come to understand, in his or her heart, that the guidance is authentic, would not share the same fate as someone who does understand, yet still rejects it?

Peace,
Tay

Tay

Peace Phoenix1,

You stated

Truth is always from God, so a person who rejects the truth is rejecting God.

I agree.

It does matter whether a person understands or not because a person who doesn't make the effort to understand anything, will never discover the truth.

Did you mean to say, "it does matter", or "it does not matter"? In either case, effort is NOT what's in question here, because effort is not outwardly visible. Allah promises to judge based on what's in our hearts, not what's casually mentioned. You do bring up a good point, though, because folks who label others as kafirs must then be sure that they understand whether or not the person they are labelling has trully understood what it is they are rejecting.

He/she will only believe (and believe anything).

Not sure what you meant there.

So we have to understand everything, then pick which one is true, then follow it.

Exactly. So, then, a kafir is one who does understand, knows it's true, but doesn't follow it. Right?

Peace,
Tay

wildguest1956

Here is kufr from the glossary of Parwez

Kufr / K'afir / K'afireen - (Kaf-Fa-Ra).

Kufr means to conceal, to hide, to cover.

Arimani has mentioned Akhfa, Satara, and Ajanna as synonyms of Kafara. Ibn-e-Faris also agrees that its basic meanings are to cover or conceal. Therefore,

A person whose body is fully covered with weapons is called K'afir.
Night is also called K'afir, as its darkness covers everything.
Dark clouds are called K'afir.
A river or sea is called K'afir as it covers everything lying in its bed.
A farmer is called K'afir as he hides the seed under the soil (Taj).
A grave is called Al-Kafro as it hides the dead-body.

In the same way, K'afir is a person who conceals the fundamental and absolute values of life, given to man by Allah. A person who hides his own or other peoples' potentialities and does not permit them to develop is also known as K'afir. Keeping in view this meaning of hiding or covering, it was also used in the meaning of denial, refusal or rejection. Therefore, it was also used in contrast to the concept of Ei'man, i.e., one who denies the absolute truth as given in the Quran (2/4-2/6). K'afir is used as an opposite of Momin

Kufr is also used as antonym of Shukr, as Shukr means something which gets prominent (14/7). From here the word "Kufran-e-N'aimat" is derived which means to hide bounties of nature, or to refuse to offer them for the good of mankind.

"Kaffara" is, therefore, an act which covers the misdeeds or the ill-effects of some wrong-doing.

Kafara has three origins

Kufr'anun
Kufrun
Kofurun.

Kufr'anun is normally used as rejection of bounties of nature, Kufr is used as a denial, refusal, or rejection in respect of affairs of Deen, and Kofur is used for both the concepts. In the Quran the plural of K'afir is given as Kuff'ar, K'afiroon or Kaf'aratun. K'afoor is the scented medicine which reduces the intensity of heat.

Kafoorun is used in stronger terms of Kufr (Raghib).

It, therefore, transpires that Ei'man and Kufr are not merely matters of faith, but cover the practical aspects of life. To accept the Quranic Laws as truthful and then live accordingly is Ei'man and to reject them is Kufr. According to the Quran, the term K'afir is not an abuse, but is a statement of fact. For example, if a party is formed, everyone who joins it is called a "member," and those who do not join are called "non-members." Accordingly those who accept Islam are called Muslims and those who do not, non-Muslims. Every non-Muslim is not a K'afir in the real sense of the term. K'afir is a person to whom teachings of the Quran are conveyed and explained and after listening to them he rejects (47/32). There might be those who have not been guided to the truth. Then there are various categories of K'afireen, e.g., those who not only refuse to accept but also hinder others from accepting it, sometimes by force. There are a number of reasons as to why a person, even after listening to this message, refuses to accept

Some do it on account of stubbornness, obstinacy, jealousy or grudge (2/90).
Generally people do it because they feel haughty, rebellious, or have inflated egos. (35/42, 27/14).
Some people do not accept because of false prestige; and once they say no, they would stick to it come what may (7/101) .... and when one goes on repeating the denial he gets hardened in this attitude.
Once they get into this category, then their false prestige forces them to stop others, because they do not want to be left alone (47/32). For this they devise the strategy of advising other people not to listen to the Quran, and distracting them when Quran was being recited by making noise (41/26).

The people listed above are the people who will not have faith and be convinced even if one makes them aware of the dire consequences. This is because they have lost the capability of understanding (7/179).

There are two concepts of life. One is that the life is only physical; one is born, brought up procreates and after sometime dies, and there remains nothing of him. The other concept is that life is not the physical existence alone but enjoins the soul too, whose development is the real object of human life. This development of the personality enables a person to continue living even after his physical death.

The definition of Kufr, however, is not confined to the concealment of truth alone; it also includes withholding of subsistence, which Allah has created for the good of all mankind and which He wants to be freely available to all.

phoenix1

peace Tay,

Did you mean to say, "it does matter", or "it does not matter"? In either case, effort is NOT what's in question here, because effort is not outwardly visible. Allah promises to judge based on what's in our hearts, not what's casually mentioned. You do bring up a good point, though, because folks who label others as kafirs must then be sure that they understand whether or not the person they are labelling has trully understood what it is they are rejecting.

I said it DOES matter.
Effort isn't always outwardly visible, that's why we shouldn't label others as rejectors, because maybe they are making an effort to discover the truth but just havn't found it yet. Even if we never understand, we should at least make the effort. the effort is what makes people believers or rejectors.

Not sure what you meant there.

I meant that people who don't make the effort to understand, will never understand ANYTHING, let alone the truth. They will only follow blindly (without understanding first).
Even if they do believe the truth, they aren't believing it because they understand it to be the truth, but just because that's what was taught to them. Tell me if I was clear enough this time.

Exactly. So, then, a kafir is one who does understand, knows it's true, but doesn't follow it. Right?

Or a person who doesn't open their mind and makes the effort to undersand everything, because if they don't make the effort to understand, they can never go to the next step which is seperating the truth from fiction.
There is no excuse for not understanding the truth, because we have all the tools we need to do that.

Tay

Peace Phoenix,

Very well stated. Thanks for clarifying, and I agree all around.

Peace,
Tay

phoenix1

peace Tay

glad you do.

Tay

Peace mquran,

Sorry I missed your post

The word 'kafir' has gained a racist interpretation in terms of popular usage. People not from the 'islamic civilisation' are deemed as the 'kuffar' but people who are from the 'islamic civilisation' including murderers, rapists and their ilk cannot be called 'kuffar'. This is all thanks to the Hambalite defense of the 'grave sinner'. Ahmad ibn Hambal declared that it's possible to be 'muslim' while knowingly and continually acting in a kuffar manner. This is of course, contrary to the teachings of al-quraan.

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize it was this sort of indoctrination that had people saying things like "a kuffar country" and such.

The root KFR appears in nearly 700 occurences, so you can imagine how immense the study is.

Yeah, PRL cited so many occurrences that I randomly picked through numbers for the sake of brevity.

One verse however which always stands out to me is this

O ye who believe! Spend out of (the bounties) We have provided for you, before the Day comes when no bargaining (Will avail), nor friendship nor intercession. Al-kafireen, they are az-zalimeen. (2/254)

The context here is very telling indeed. If you do not spend in the way of Allah (i.e by establishing justice and ad-deen), you are in fact an al-kaafir and an explanation of this is that you're an az-zaalim, or an oppressior.

QT has "az-zaalim" as "wicked". Surely, oppressors are wicked, but is the term more general than "oppressor"?

Kafir should always be seen in universal behavioural terms, never in racial, cultural or sectarian terms.

I agree, and would only add that as humans with limited insight, we should not even use the word unless a person has openly confessed to this behavior, either in words, or in undeniable action.

Peace,
Tay

mquran

TayThanks for the info. I didn't realize it was this sort of indoctrination that had people saying things like "a kuffar country" and such.

Oh yes, its a whole pan-racist industry. That's why you'll find sunnis up in arms when Britain invaded Iraq but not a peep when the US invaded Panama. Who cares about a bunch of 'non-muslims'?!

QT has "az-zaalim" as "wicked". Surely, oppressors are wicked, but is the term more general than "oppressor"?

Well Tay, to me, in order to fully grasp the meaning, I'd stick with the actual word and acquire a mental set of signifieds when I read. For example, when I think of a zaalim guy, he's a guy who (among other things) refuses to spend in God's way.

I agree, and would only add that as humans with limited insight, we should not even use the word unless a person has openly confessed to this behavior, either in words, or in undeniable action.

And the undeniable action is causing mischief on earth. 2/6-20 is a good example of that explaination.

unknownuser

Peace Tay/all. Some very interesting posts on this topic...
Tay; To me a persons recognising a specific guidance is not important at all...What i feel is important is the persons intentions,mind-set,behaviour,morality and willingness to discover more/correct himself...This last factor being one of THE most important factors...
We also have to take into account the intellectual level, personal circumstances,and education of the person in question...I once saw a documentary on the HORROR and INJUSTICE that occured in beslan,and the destruction of totally innocent life....One of the children stated that he no longer believed in god,because he expected god to rescue him from the horror,pain,and suffering of losing loved ones,and seeing such carnage at such a young age.....I dont blame him one bit....Do you think a 'true' god would hold that against him?

CavemanDoctor

Just a general comment.

I think we'd do well to abstain from labelling people "kafir" for, as Baqara shows, we don't know exactly what is in their hearts/what level of guidance they have received.

Conversely, I think it is best to label actions as kufr for the Qur'an does seem to stress actions more than anything.

The all-encompassing label "kafir" seems, at times, to cast too broad a net. It is best to label certain actions as truth-denying (kufr), thus separating the action from the actor.

unknownuser

Peace cavemandoctor...I think that is a very decent,sound and sensible proposal... bravo

Tay

Peace mquran, enquirer, all,

That's why you'll find sunnis up in arms when Britain invaded Iraq but not a peep when the US invaded Panama. Who cares about a bunch of 'non-muslims'?!

So true.

Well Tay, to me, in order to fully grasp the meaning, I'd stick with the actual word and acquire a mental set of signifieds when I read. For example, when I think of a zaalim guy, he's a guy who (among other things) refuses to spend in God's way.

I gotcha. So, "wicked" is a fitting umbrella term to be exhibited by specific behaviors, such as not spending in God's way?

And the undeniable action is causing mischief on earth. 2/6-20 is a good example of that explaination.

I agree, but again, find this to be a gray territory if only for the sake of intention. Is mischief the cause of a behavior or the effect of a more sincere cause? How do we judge this with accuracy?

Peace,
Tay

Tay

Peace all,

Sorry, enquirer, for hitting the "post" button a moment too soon.

To me a persons recognising a specific guidance is not important at all...What i feel is important is the persons intentions,mind-set,behaviour,morality and willingness to discover more/correct himself...This last factor being one of THE most important factors...

Agreed.

We also have to take into account the intellectual level, personal circumstances,and education of the person in question...I once saw a documentary on the HORROR and INJUSTICE that occured in beslan,and the destruction of totally innocent life....One of the children stated that he no longer believed in god,because he expected god to rescue him from the horror,pain,and suffering of losing loved ones,and seeing such carnage at such a young age.....I dont blame him one bit....Do you think a 'true' god would hold that against him?

I've yet to see this documentary as it hits close to home, but have heard a lot about it. To answer your question, I believe everyone is judged according to what they've had to deal with in life, exclusively. I know a few people who have lost faith in God due to personal tragedies early in their lives. It's easy for me to say that the way they view God is wrong, since I didn't experience what they've experienced. That being said, I still do think that it is wrong. The world does not revolve around any one person, and thus, no one person should feel victimized by life's occurrences. So, I would ask, where did this person get the idea that God would come and rescue him or her from their pain and suffering? The premise is wrong. But, in ending, I would not go so far to assume what God would or would not hold a against a person, mostly because I don't view evolution of spirit in such black and white terms.

To me, this life is designed for priming the self for the next life. How we handle our adversities and blessings dictates what we will evolve into. It is that simple.

Peace,
Tay

unknownuser

Peace tay. That documentary was heart-rending and disgusting at the same time...My wife cried at this injustice commited in the name of islam...
I personally think that we have got some of our concepts about god wrong....Phoenix has just stated in another thread that god is truth,the quran calls allah al-haq or the truth...
The 'truth' was the russian army and circumstances rescued this poor young child...That may have been his 'truth' at the time...
I agree with a lot of your post...But how can we hold a young child accountable for saying what was his 'truth' and opinion,given the circumstances...
Peace all. ps;very good points raised by mquran.

phoenix1

peace enquirer,

I don't think, as a young child, he/she would be held responsible. But once they become older, is there a good reason why their view shouldn't change? wouldn't that child have experiences later in his/her life that would change that view of God? but again, he/she might have a different way of believing in God. One we can't necessarily see.

Tay

Peace enquirer,

But how can we hold a young child accountable for saying what was his 'truth' and opinion,given the circumstances...

My question was, "where did this person get the idea that God would come and rescue him or her from their pain and suffering?" So, in essence, there is no blame on the child, but on those who gave him/her this idea. But even in this, "blame" may not be the right word, for it is not people that get to judge. And in that case, we are told, time and again (as well, logic dictates), that God can only be perfectly just. Therefore, a child saying "I disown God" before being able to think clearly for him/her self, can hardly be held accountable for these words.

peace,
Tay

unknownuser

Peace phoenix. I think our ideas of god are constantly evolving,or at least modifying from a few basic premises. (because of our different experiences.)...Its like idol-free says; 'are we looking for that old man in the sky to rescue us'? That child may have been dismissing a 'concept' of god,but not necessarily the real 'truth'...(or the real,verifiable god.)
And finally once again,its the behaviour,intentions,mind-set and willingness to learn/correct oneself,which is much more important than recognising,or paying lip-service to 'abstract' concepts,and subjective opinions about god...