A refutation to Bro Yaseen - Polygamy is allowed in 4 23
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I think it might be easier for me to explain if you can tell me what part of 43 implies that the men the orphan women are married off are already married themselves
We probably see this verse in totally different ways. The men does not have to be already married here ( and it does not seem to be a command only for men already married or unmarried but a general command to all men) and sets the upper limit for the number of wives a person can have at a given time.
And I don't see 43 talking about orphan women being married off.
I know there was much discussion on this but are you certain that fankihu means " marry off" ?
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if it is setting an upper limit, then why does the word word translation mean 'twos AND threes AND fours'
instead of 'twos OR threes OR fours'?Secondly, like I discussed in the other thread, if there (probably) was an excess of men over women even after losses due to war, then how can polygamy come about? Unless some men are left single?
It seems that a lot of traditional muslims seem to believe that polygamy was common in Arabia since there were more women than men, due to losses in wars, but that seems unlikely.
as for fankihu, does it only mean 'marry', or can it mean 'marry off'?
One of Samia's post seems to suggest that it depends on context, and as to whether the person referred to is a man or a woman.
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The men does not have to be already married here ( and it does not seem to be a command only for men already married or unmarried but a general command to all men)
Can it not be said that it's a general command to all men, and that, from Surah 24, the single should marry, hence, the general command only applies to SINGLE men?
(all capitalisation is for emphasis)
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Can it not be said that it's a general command to all men, and that, from Surah 24, the single should marry, hence, the general command only applies to SINGLE men?
(all capitalisation is for emphasis)
if you are referring to 2432, that verse encourages Muslim men to marry the widows in the society
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat24_files/24_32.gif
And arrange marriages for widows from among you, and for your male slaves and female slaves who are fit for marriage. If they be poor, Allah will grant them means out of HIS bounty; and Allah is Bountiful, All-Knowing. -
We probably see this verse in totally different ways. The men does not have to be already married here ( and it does not seem to be a command only for men already married or unmarried but a general command to all men) and sets the upper limit for the number of wives a person can have at a given time.
And I don't see 43 talking about orphan women being married off.
I know there was much discussion on this but are you certain that fankihu means " marry off" ?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.msg181629#msg181629
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if you are referring to 2432, that verse encourages Muslim men to marry the widows in the society
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat24_files/24_32.gif
And arrange marriages for widows from among you, and for your male slaves and female slaves who are fit for marriage. If they be poor, Allah will grant them means out of HIS bounty; and Allah is Bountiful, All-Knowing.question is, are these men either single or married, or are those men referred to are single (or widowers, or divorcees)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599421.msg230767#msg230767 -
question is, are these men either single or married, or are those men referred to are single (or widowers, or divorcees)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599421.msg230767#msg230767both single and already married but the condition is "if you can be just" but again recommendation is that you stay married to one to avoid any injustice .
polygamy is neither prohibited nor encouraged.
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then why AND instead of OR
doesn't always mean AND, see for example
3112
They shall be smitten with abasement wherever they are found unless they are protected by a covenant with Allah or by a covenant with men. -
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I think ?AND? here is reasonable use to convey the message since just as in English language ?And? is used in Arabic to mean ?also/ as well as? as you can see the use in the following verses and also in few other places in the Quran.
337 And when We took from the prophets their covenant, "wa"/and from you, "wa"/and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary; We took from them a strong covenant.
5568 In them are fruits "wa"/and date palms, "wa"/and pomegranate.
"Fruits" includes "pomegranates" even though they are separated by "wa"/and.So possibly ?And? covers men in all 3 situations of having 2, 3 and 4 wives together.
But with 423 and 4129 do you still think polygamy is not allowed ?
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What reason can there be to allow already married men to marry those women, when there are single men available?
I would assume that there was an excess of available men compared to the number of available women considering the possible demographic of that region.
Please see my other thread for details.
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What reason can there be to allow already married men to marry those women, when there are single men available?
I would assume that there was an excess of available men compared to the number of available women considering the possible demographic of that region.
Please see my other thread for details.
The reason polygamy already existed at that time, now why are youj ealous??
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Peace San
4129 is clear indication of polygamy but it refers to the case of being unfair to one which sould not be the case. 43 instructs if you can not be fair not to marry more than one.
Peace Sarah
From which verse did this single men come from ? Any way the assumption of single men being available is information outside the Quran which you can not use as argument against the clear message allowing polygamy in the Quran.
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Peace San
4129 is clear indication of polygamy but it refers to the case of being unfair to one which sould not be the case. 43 instructs if you can not be fair not to marry more than one.
And you will never be able to be equal between the ladies... That'd always be the case with polygamy, if i were to read 4129 literally. The rest of the verse suggest the best compromise one can take. Then...
4130 And if they separate, Allah will enrich each from His abundance. And ever is Allah Encompassing and Wise.
If it weren't for the children (btw yatama means "fatherless" and not "parents-less"--please contrast that of 43 to that of 4127 where yataman-nisa is specifically addressed) then i had no idea why one should get into polygamy in this world.
Oh yeah. Pretty youth is one of the most common reasons--at least that's what i usually see...
Peace
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From which verse did this single men come from ? Any way the assumption of single men being available is information outside the Quran which you can not use as argument against the clear message allowing polygamy in the Quran.
Did you even read my other thread? I am not referring to verses, I am asking a question about the possible demographic of that area.
There were high rates of maternal mortality, right?
There was female infanticide, right?
What do you think is the result?
Is it a 'clear' message that polygamy is allowed for any individual with the exception of the Prophet Muhammad? And if it were, why is it also discouraged?