A refutation to Bro Yaseen - Polygamy is allowed in 4 23
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Peace warner,
4 24
Yusuf Ali Also (prohibited are) women already married except those whom your right hands possess. Thus hath Allah ordained (prohibitions) against you except for these all others are lawful provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property desiring chastity not lust. Seeing that ye derive benefit from them give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if after a dower is prescribed ye agree mutually (to vary it) there is no blame on you and Allah is All-Knowing All-Wise.
Transliteration Wal muhsana_tu minan nisa_'i illa_ ma_ malakat aima_nukum, kita_balla_hi 'alaikum, wa uhilla lakum ma_ wara_'a za_likum an tabtagu_ bi amwa_likum muhisinan gaira musa_fihin(a), famastamta'tum bihi minhunna fa a_tu_hunna uju_rahunna faridah(tan), wa la_ juna_ha 'alaikum fima_ tara_daitum bihi mim ba'dil faridah(ti), innalla_ha ka_na'aliman hakima_(n).
The Quraan clearly says in above verse "Cannot marry already married women (Nisa_i)"
AND NOT already married men. Why prohibition for only married women, the verse could have easily prohibited for men also.Allah did not forbid marriage to married men because then there would have been no room for the polygyny allowed to the Prophet. In al-qur'aan wherever Allah prohibits something it is for EVERYONE, and the exceptions to a forbidden thing are also for EVERYONE. According to al-qur'aan Allah allowed polygyny ONLY to the Prophet, so He did not prohibit polygyny.
You misunderstood when I tried to explain about 2 or 3 sisters.
Your argument on 3 sisters is very naive. How can you get married to 3 without getting married to 2. If you are getting married to the third, that means you are already married to 2 which is not allowed in 423. Most simple logic.
If polygamy is not allowed the restriction to marry 2 sisters at the same time is not necessary to be told specifically.
Sorry, did not mean to offend you
You are using faulty logic bro. What if one marries 3 or more sisters in a group at the same exact time, with the 3 or more sisters signing the marriage contract in front of witnesses at the same exact time ? What then ?
Guardian in case of Orphan.
(We can see how strongly Quraan emphasizes about giving orphans in marriage and marrying orphans just like it emphasizes all relationship and treatment of orphans. First part of Sura Nisaa (Chapter 2) is about relationships with women and naturally marriage. The first verse deals with your mother and probably grand mothers and very close female relations and amazingly the Quraan sticking to the importance it places on the orphans, immediately moves to the subject of orphan women in verse 2. Beautiful.)43 does not talk about giving orphans in marriage or marrying orphans, but it talks about the mothers of those orphans. The "orphans" and the "women" in 43 are not the same entities and combining this with 4127 it is clear that "women" in 43 is referring to the mothers of the orphans. Please go through savage_carrot's post in which she quotes from brother Ayman for an explanantion of this. Also please read sister Samia's post regarding what "yatama al-nisa" means.
2432
And marry such of you as are solitary/single and the pious of your slaves and maid- servants. If they were poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware.2432 deals with men and women who can make a decision on their own. If they chose they can marry even their slaves.
Men can get married to only single women. If women are allowed to get married to already married men, we wonder why, the word "single" in the verse dealing with women marrying whoever they want. Because it is not encouraged for a woman (when she is initiating marriage) to chose a man already married. But if a man already married chooses to marry her then there is no issue. From what I gather it's a way of discouraging single independent women from pursuing already married men.
First of all 2432 does not talk about slaves but servants. "Ibadikum" does not mean your slaves but your servants. Please do not mistranslate verses like that.
2432 addresses the believer men and women. The verse does not talk about who is "initiating" the marriage, that is your own addition. It just says marry the single among you. Marriage is bilateral, both independent paties have to agree to it. When a married man wants to marry a single woman, the single woman is marrying a married man and not "single among you", and that would go against 2432, doesn't matter who initiated it. So according to this verse Allah wants believeing men to marry only the single believing women and believing women to marry only single believing men, doesn't matter who initiates it.
But importantly, the only situation where an independent woman can chose a husband already married is allowed in 3350 with regard to the prophet. (3350 ...any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her this only for thee and not for the Believers...)
Although the prophet is already married a believing woman can offer to marry him and this is only for the prophet and not for other believers.The part of 3350 you are referring to mentions "muminaat" not "muhsinaat". You are mistranslating "muminaat" meaning "believer women" to "independent women". Thus a "dependent" believer woman who is not married (for example ma malakat aymanukum or a believer single woman who is still dependent on her parents or guardian) can also be one of the "muminaat". The polygamous possibilty described in 3350 is only a special privilege for the Prophet and no one else. Other than the Prophet, no other polygamous situation is allowed/encouraged/made possible by Allah in al-qur'aan.
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Polyandry is not allowed in the Quraan
Peace m quran
If a woman is married to a man to commit polyandry she has to marry another man while being married. As for the latter( second man) it is prohibited marrying a married woman according to the Quraan. So if the woman marries the second man the woman becomes automatic partner in the prohibited act. Since under this law in the Quraan polyandry becomes automatically impossible , Quraan does not have to specifically mention that.
Peace Tanveer
I am not going to answer to you since you do not seem to get the most
basic things. You build on your own ignorance. Marriage is not signing a contract together. -
Peace bro Tanveer,
If something is not forbidden in al-qur'aan, it does not automatically make it "halal". There could be a third category of things that Allah does not make "haram" but does not want us to do it. Those things cannot be labelled "halal". Example is alcohol and gambling. Another example "could be" polygyny, which is what I am trying to determine.
According to my understanding of a third category of things that Allah has not forbidden but does not want us to do it, polygyny falls into that category. The verse about alcohol and gambling is also social advice, but that does not make alcohol or gambling "halal".
Anything that is not forbidden is halal. It is then up to you to keep it in moderation. We must be very careful of labelling haram and halal unless expressly mentioned, infact we shouldn't even use those words unless they are expressly mentioned. We can use discouraged/encouraged and that will lead to a better understanding. Discouraging does not equal haram please, also something haram can become halal in times of necessity.You didn't get what I was trying to tell you. Lets start from scratch. A man X gets married to a woman Y, so Y will be the first wife. Now if he marries another woman Z, without divorcing Y, he will violate the rule in 420. So one cannot reach a polygamous situation without violating 420 first.
Why did Allah just not say "if you wish to divorce your wife do not take from her a thing" ? Why did He say "if you wish to exchange a spouse in place of a spouse........" ?
Because people can exchange spouses? One for the other whether they be 3 or 4 spouses? Your X-Y analogy is also not taking into consideration that it can be interpreted as social advice?I am not saying that the verse implies that men cannot be fair with women period. I am saying that the verse implies that men cannot be fair with their wives in a certain situation in marriage when the husband is so upset with his wife for some reason that he is thinking of divorcing her. It is impossible for a man to think straight in that situation and be fair (example husband catches his wife cheating on him and is now so upset that he is thinking of divorcing her). Hence Allah is saying that even in that situation, keep providing for her and protect her as much as you can and do not leave her "hanging". As I said, this verse is about the rights of a wife.
The verse does not read right if one has a preconceived notion or bias that men can be fair even when they are so upset with their wives that they are thinking of divorcing.
No, I think this is really stretching it here. If the husband is upset it has to be for a legtimate reason, God is not trying to soothe the man when he wants to divorce for the heck of it. Thus if there are legitimate reasons they are supposed to work it out between themselves, and the first part of the verse, you can never be fair with the women if you tried is revealing. If a man catches his wife cheating, and he wants to divorce her is that not fair even though he is upset? Does that seem right to you? But no, a man should reconcile with her and keep providing for her even though she is an adultress...how is that even remotely making sense? I can tell you, in that situation she ain't hanging in a void, she's living it up.It does not matter if it is a rare situation or not. The verses of inheritance give all other scenarios of "two or more" AFTER CARRYING OUT THE WILL except that of "two or more wives". All this is AFTER a will is carried out. I agree that two or more wives can be addressed in a will, but AFTER a will is carried out, other scenarios are discussed by God but TWO OR MORE WIVES SCENARIO IS NOT DISCUSSED. Why is that ?
Bro, I told you this is not a legitimate argument, conjecturing about things that should have been there according to one's understanding. If it's not there, it's not there. Look to the other verses for direct clues, that is legitimate.Brother Ayman said that if 43 means "marry off" then orphans and women have to be the same entity. I said that they don't have to be the same entity. The only change in my understanding is that by "women" in 43 Allah means the mothers of the orphans (thanks to sister Samia's explanation). Still it doesn't ask the guardian of the orphans to marry them but to marry off the mothers of the orphans in groups. The mothers of the orphans are also dependent women because of the death of their husbands, so a guardian can marry them off to other men in groups.
Had the sign of 43 meant for them to be the same entity then there would have been nothing wrong with saying "And if you feared that you will not be equitable in the orphans, so marry off those who consented to you from the them ("minhun"..." But of course 43 doesn't say that.
I think this is a strong indicator that they are not the same entity, in either case you think now that they are mother's of the orphans, and the same point rears it's head up...marry or marry off. Since it is not expressly forbidden and the strange case of only one situation where we can't marry two sisters at the same time, I think it well can be marry.Let me bring another important point to your attention, which I think is the clincher in favor of "marry off" in 43.
The word used for DOWRY in Al-Quran, implying that you have to marry, is always "UJURAHUNNA" and not "SADUQATIHINNA" which is used in 44 meaning INHERITANCE and not dowry, therefore clearly meaning MARRY OFF and not marry in 43.
Bro, I have discussed this quite a lot in the past years and have gone from one understanding to the next and then back again. I will think about this one and get back to you unless someone else does in the meanwhile. I will also suggest that you consider the fact that since it is not expressly forbidden, we can't make it haram. Also, the mysterious case of do not marry two sisters at the same time. It well might be discouraged but permissible in some situations? -
Allah does not make polygyny "haraam" in al-qur'aan.
Good. That's all I really wanted to know.
If something is not forbidden in al-qur'aan, it does not automatically make it "halal". There could be a third category of things that Allah does not make "haram" but does not want us to do it. Those things cannot be labelled "halal". Example is alcohol and gambling. Another example "could be" polygyny, which is what I am trying to determine.
Great. There's a small thing in these discussions though called 'evidence'. 'there could be a third category' very unfortunately doesn't constitute 'evidence'. Kindly produce evidence from al-quraan which you have 'determined' it. Please also look at verses like 7/157 to see the dynamics between the terms 'haram' and 'halal'.
Do you think that polygyny is "halaal" according to al-qur'aan ?According to my understanding of a third category of things that Allah has not forbidden but does not want us to do it, polygyny falls into that category. The verse about alcohol and gambling is also social advice, but that does not make alcohol or gambling "halal".
Sorry, the usage of the context makes something not haraam to be halaal. Prove your third category if you're truthful.
If according to you marrying 3 or more sisters at the same time in a group is still NOT AT THE SAME EXACT TIME thereby making the marriages linear rather than parallel just because they sign the marriage contract one after another then what if THEY ALL SIGN THE MARRIAGE CONTRACT AT THE SAME TIME ?It is possible. One can have the 3 sisters A,B,C sign the marriage contract at the same exact time. What then ?
They can, but according 2/282 , a contract isn't valid unless both parties and witness signs it thereby making it a single event. So unless you can create a scenario like the movie Multiplicity, that's not going to happen.
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WarnerIf a woman is married to a man to commit polyandry she has to marry another man while being married. As for the latter( second man) it is prohibited marrying a married woman according to the Quraan. So if the woman marries the second man the woman becomes automatic partner in the prohibited act. Since under this law in the Quraan polyandry becomes automatically impossible , Quraan does not have to specifically mention that.
I stand corrected. Excellent argumentation, warner. Do note though that is for believers, only.
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Peace mquran and Nadya
I am repeating one of my earlier posts. Since I guessed that you would have missed it. Please take a look and add your thoughts . I am seeing a completely different view of the priviledge allowed for only the prophet in 3350
Peace All
If you look at the verses related to marriage and relationship with women you will notice a clear pattern in who initiates the marriage and who is being given in marriage.
- A Guardian/parent initiating marriage (or gives away in marriage)
Guardian in case of Orphan.
(We can see how strongly Quraan emphasizes about giving orphans in marriage and marrying orphans just like it emphasizes all relationship and treatment of orphans. First part of Sura Nisaa (Chapter 2) is about relationships with women and naturally marriage. The first verse deals with your mother and probably grand mothers and very close female relations and amazingly the Quraan sticking to the importance it places on the orphans, immediately moves to the subject of orphan women in verse 2. Beautiful.)Parent giving son or daughter in marriage
Elders/relatives giving the young in the family or in the society/neighborhood in marriage
Master in the case of the slave
Please try to read all verses dealing in the subject in the Quraan, mainly in Chapter 4 and 24.
2 A man initiating marriage (This should be older mature independent and maybe already married)
The verses are quite clear. Please try to read all verses dealing in the subject in Chapter 2, 4, and 24,33
3 A woman initiating marriage (This is an older mature independent woman)
The verse 2432 is dealing with this.
2432
And marry such of you as are solitary/single and the pious of your slaves and maid- servants. If they were poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware.2432 deals with men and women who can make a decision on their own. If they chose they can marry even their slaves.
Men can get married to only single women. If women are allowed to get married to already married men, we wonder why, the word "single" in the verse dealing with women marrying whoever they want. Because it is not encouraged for a woman (when she is initiating marriage) to chose a man already married. But if a man already married chooses to marry her then there is no issue. From what I gather it's a way of discouraging single independent women from pursuing already married men.
But importantly, the only situation where an independent woman can chose a husband already married is allowed in 3350 with regard to the prophet. (3350 ...any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her this only for thee and not for the Believers...)
Although the prophet is already married a believing woman can offer to marry him and this is only for the prophet and not for other believers.These are my humble opinion and please add your thoughts.
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Peace warner,
Thanks for reposting, I must've missed it. I wil research this further and post later when I have.
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Peace all
Warner, good point against polyandry.
However, let?s also not forget that 4/24 excludes ma malakat aymanukum from those muhSanat women who are forbidden to be married.
It says illa ma malakat aymanukum!I don?t want to get into interpreting this term here. There have been numerous idead on that posted and voiced on free minds, some on which I agree and some on which i don?t agree.
But in effect I would say that 4/24 shows that there are in practice indeed some muhSanat nisaa who could have multiple husbands when these muhSanat nisaa are part of ma malakat aymanukum!
I am willing to be corrected, though.
regards,
Leyla
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Salam Leyla and all
The problem is when we decided that Muhsanat means married women. What does marriage protect from? (muhsan means protected)
Secondly, in many verses, we find muhsanaat is mentioned where it could mean anything but a married woman (as in verse 25 of ch 4).
Thirdly, this term is often mentioned in opposition to ma malakat aymanukum. On the other hand, ma malakat aymanukum is always mentioned in an alternative to zawj (azwajukum AW "or" ma malakat aymanukum).
Back to this thread why are almuhsanat (in the context of those not to be married),mentioned in a verse exclusive to them? Verse 2432 already mentioned that only singles are to be married.
I believe the move from the verse 423, containing all the (mahrams) to a new verse (424) indicates a shifting between two different groups being addressed . Notice that from verse 25 onward, we are in regulations and laws concerning mainly(ma malakat aymanukum, as in opposition to muhsanat).
Maybe I can tell what muhsanat or ma malakat aymanukum is NOT,however, I need other opinions to say what these two terms stand for.
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Peace Leyla, Samia, Mquran, Warner, all,
However, let?s also not forget that 4/24 excludes ma malakat aymanukum from those muhSanat women who are forbidden to be married.
It says illa ma malakat aymanukum!I don?t want to get into interpreting this term here. There have been numerous idead on that posted and voiced on free minds, some on which I agree and some on which i don?t agree.
But in effect I would say that 4/24 shows that there are in practice indeed some muhSanat nisaa who could have multiple husbands when these muhSanat nisaa are part of ma malakat aymanukum!
I was going to write the same in reply to warners post but edited it out at the last minute.
I agree with you that IF "muhsinaat" means "married women" then the word "illa" or "except" before "ma malakat aymanukum" will mean that the "ma malakat aymanukum" bing mentioned are MARRIED. That will be allowing POLYANDRY in case of the "ma malakat aymanukum" mentioned.
The word "illa" or "except" before "ma malakat aymanukum" in 424 means that those "ma malakat aymanukum" are a subset of "muhsinaat" mentioned in the same verse. So if "muhsinaat" here is translated as married, then the "ma malakat aymanukum" mentioned in this verse are also married. THAT PERMITS POLYANDRY in a limited cases.
I tend to agree with Samia that "muhsinaat" here means "protected women" and not "married women". That will make their subset "ma malakat aymanukum" mentioned in this verse also protected.
What "protected women" means needs to be researched further.
Brother mquran and warner, IF "muhsinaat" in 424 means married then due to the exception "illa", POLYANDRY IS NOT CATEGORICALLY FORBIDDEN IN ALL CASES BUT ALLOWED IN SOME CASES.
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Peace mquran,
Sorry, the usage of the context makes something not haraam to be halaal.
So then do you think alcohol and gambling is "halaal" according to al-qur'aan ?
They can, but according 2/282 , a contract isn't valid unless both parties and witness signs it thereby making it a single event. So unless you can create a scenario like the movie Multiplicity, that's not going to happen.
The man getting married signs three contracts first with no signatures yet from the 3 sisters. Then the 3 sisters all sign their respective contracts at the same time. Then the 3 witnesses all sign the 3 respective contracts at the same time. No Multiplicity scenario needed. WHAT THEN ?
Can you also please educate brother warner that a signed contract by all parties involved in front of witness is required for marriage ? since he doesn't believe me when I tried to tell him that.
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Peace sister Nadya,
Thank you for the excellent discussion and raising interesting and excellent points.
I will also suggest that you consider the fact that since it is not expressly forbidden, we can't make it haram.
I agree that polygyny is not "haraam" according to al-qur'aan. All I am trying to say is that Allah does not encourage it in view of "marry the single among you" verse. Also I think that "ankihoo" is mistranslated as "marry" instead of "marry off" in 43 and 4127. In my understanding the translation "marry off" makes sense and is the "best" meaning in view of the context especially the "saduqatihinna" context.
Bro, I told you this is not a legitimate argument, conjecturing about things that should have been there according to one's understanding. If it's not there, it's not there. Look to the other verses for direct clues, that is legitimate.
If Allah allowed polygamy then it seems very strange that he did not mention the share of two or more wives in inheritance AFTER CARRYING OUT THE WILL. If, however, "ankihoo" in 43 is translated as "marry off" then it all fits.
Because people can exchange spouses? One for the other whether they be 3 or 4 spouses? Your X-Y analogy is also not taking into consideration that it can be interpreted as social advice?
Please note that one cannot arrive at a polygamous situation in which one exchanges one of the multiple spouses for another without violating the "marry the single among you" social advice first.
Also you have not addressed the following question
Why did Allah just not say "if you wish to divorce your wife do not take from her a thing" ? Why did He say "if you wish to exchange a spouse in place of a spouse........" ?
No, I think this is really stretching it here. If the husband is upset it has to be for a legtimate reason, God is not trying to soothe the man when he wants to divorce for the heck of it. Thus if there are legitimate reasons they are supposed to work it out between themselves, and the first part of the verse, you can never be fair with the women if you tried is revealing. If a man catches his wife cheating, and he wants to divorce her is that not fair even though he is upset? Does that seem right to you? But no, a man should reconcile with her and keep providing for her even though she is an adultress...how is that even remotely making sense? I can tell you, in that situation she ain't hanging in a void, she's living it up.
I did not mean "adultery" when I said "cheating". The wife could have been just kissing someone or maybe found holding hands or cuddling in a romantic way etc. It could also be any other reason too she might be mistreating/abusing the children for example. What I am trying to say is that I think Allah is trying to tell us that it becomes impossible for a husband to think straight in that situation and to be totally fair when he is so upset with his wife that he is thinking about divorce, and Allah is advising the husband to try to be as fair as he can even in that situation and still keep fulfilling his obligations towards the wife, and try to reconcile and remedy the situation.
Also, the mysterious case of do not marry two sisters at the same time. It well might be discouraged but permissible in some situations?
There would be a contradiction between 423 and 43 if the meaning "marry" is forced upon 43. Logically if 43 talks about "marrying" in groups then one will be able to marry 3 or more sisters in a group at the same time even though Allah is forbidding marrying 2 sisters at the same time.
Bro, I have discussed this quite a lot in the past years and have gone from one understanding to the next and then back again. I will think about this one and get back to you unless someone else does in the meanwhile.
The "saduqatihinna" evidence tips the scales in favor of "ankihoo" meaning "marry off" in 43. Then all the qur'aanic verses about marriage are in total harmony and there is no resulting contradiction anywhere, especially the contradiction between 423 and 43 regarding the sisters. Otherwise there is no getting around the "marry the single among you" and the mysterious absence of the mentioning of two or more wives scenario after carrying out will in inheritance verses, and mentioning "saduqatihinna" instead of "ujurihinna" in context of 43.
Peace and regards
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Peace All and Peace Samia
You mean 244 not 254?
Question 1
Does the Quraan use the words yateema and yateemat for female orphans.
Question 2
Is not a Orphan a person probably young without both parents ?
Question 3
Does Muhsanat have to mean married women? Can it be just good women.
Muhsinin is used as Good Doers/Right doers in the Quraan,5116
Taking that which their Lord giveth them; for lo! aforetime they were doers of good;
A_khizina ma_ a_ta_hum rab buhum in nahum ka_nu_ qabla za_lika muhsinin
16128
For Allah is with those who restrain themselves and those who do good.
Innalla_ha ma'al lazina-ttaqau wal lazina hum muhsinu_n(a).Why can not muhsinat be good women (women who are not proven of adultery /zina, lewdness/Fahisha or any other crime like theft and not belonging to the group ma malakat aymanakum).
Also I thought both words (muhsinin and muhsinat) come from the root H S N which is good~
Question 3
Does not the following verse suggest that the reason prophet got married many times is because he was attracted to their beauty , the same reason most men want to marry more than once.
3352
Yusuf Ali It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this nor to change them for (other) wives even though their beauty attract thee except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens) and Allah doth watch over all things.
Pickthall It is not allowed thee to take (other) women henceforth nor that thou shouldst change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased thee, save those whom thy right hand possesseth. And Allah is Watcher over all things.
Question 4
The "change them for other wives " in 3352 and "one wife in place of another" in 420 do these have same meaning. Please help me here since I am not good at Arabic.
Question 5
Doesn't the " thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries" in 3350 below suggest the prophet has already married few times by the time these verse was revealed ?
33 50 O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Enough questions for the day.
Peace Tanveer , I hope did not offend.
Thank Allah for giving the opportunity to communicate with few who are seeking the truth.
Peace All.
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Peace,
Mohsanat also refers to indepent/self-protected women, maybe refering to them being mature enough to protect themselves/make their own decisions...
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Salam Warner
Question 1
You mean 244 not 254?
I mean 254 (And whoever of you who has not the means to marry the believing muhsanaat?) as proof that muhSanaat does ot mean married, because you definitely have no way to marry a married woman.Question2
Is not a Orphan a person probably young without both parents?
That?s what I said. Not a woman at the age of marriage.Question3
Does Muhsanat have to mean married women? Can it be just good women?
I said it DOES NOT mean married women anywhere in the Qur?aan.What is the definition of (good women)?
Muhsinin is used as Good Doers/Right doers in the Quraan,
You mean muhsinin not muhSinin (these are two different words, the difference is the letter s as in salam and S as in Salat)Why can not muhsinat be good women (women who are not proven of adultery /zina, lewdness/Fahisha or any other crime like theft and not belonging to the group ma malakat aymanakum).
Any woman is good, unless proven otherwise by 4 witnesses. Even after being punished, she becomes a good woman until proven otherwise ?again- by four witnesses.
Also I thought both words (muhsinin and muhsinat) come from the root H S N which is goodYes, but we are talking about muhSinin, root (h S n) meaning fortress
5116
Taking that which their Lord giveth them; for lo! aforetime they were doers of good;
A_khizina ma_ a_ta_hum rab buhum in nahum ka_nu_ qabla za_lika muhsinin
(not muhSinin)16128
For Allah is with those who restrain themselves and those who do good.
Innalla_ha ma'al lazina-ttaqau wal lazina hum muhsinu_n(a) (aka).Question 4
Does not the following verse suggest that the reason prophet got married many times is because he was attracted to their beauty , the same reason most men want to marry more than once.
3352
Yusuf Ali It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this nor to change them for (other) wives even though their beauty attract thee except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens) and Allah doth watch over all thingsThe translation of (husn) as beauty is not accurate. You already know that this word from the root (H-S-N) means good, so the translation should be even if you are attracted to their goodness. The Prophet is not that shallow ?minded to be attracted to the appearance and not the essence.
I will leave the other questions to the others.
. Peace All and Peace Samia
Peace -
Peace brother Arnold, all,
Mohsanat also refers to indepent/self-protected women, maybe refering to them being mature enough to protect themselves/make their own decisions...
According to 424 "ma malakat aymanukum" is a subset of "mohsinaat" because of the use of word "illa" or except before "ma malakat aymanukum". "Ma malakat aymanukum" are not independent/self-protected women, therefore "mohsinaat" includes the believing women who are independent/self-protected, and those protected by oath (ma malakat aymanukum), and those protected by marriage (married women). The common denominator is "protected", so "mohsinaat" are protected believing women. Thus ALL BELIEVING WOMEN are "mohsinaat".
Having said that, 424 says that "mohsinaat" are FORBIDDEN for marriage to believing men EXCEPT "ma malakat aymanukum". If "mohsinaat" here is translated as "independent/self-protected women" then it will mean that Allah is forbidding believing men to marry all the independent/self protected women except the "ma malakat aymanukum", which does not make any sense. Hence, in my understanding, "mohsinaat" in 424 does not mean "independent/self-protected women".
On the other hand if one translates "mohsinaat" in 424 as women protected by marriage or "married women" then the word "illa" or except before "ma malakat aymanukum" means that those "ma malakat aymanukum" are also married, and those married "ma malakat aymanukum" are not forbidden for marriage; that will allow polyandry in a limited situation.
Now please consider 6010
6010 O you who believe, if the believing women (mominaat) come emigrating to you, then you shall test them. God is fully aware of their belief. Thus, if you establish that they are believers, then you shall not return them to the disbelievers (kuffar). They are no longer lawful for them, nor are the disbelievers lawful for them. And return the dowries that were paid. And there is no sin upon you to marry them, if you have paid their dowries to them. And do not keep disbelieving wives, and ask back what dowries you paid. And let them ask back what dowries they had paid. Such is God's judgement; He judges between you. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
The blue part in this verse refers to those "mominaat" (believing women) that were already married to the rejecters/kuffar, and emigrated to the believers. I think the "ma malakat aymanukum" in 424 refers to these "married mominaat" that were already married to the "kuffar" and left their rejecter husbands and emigrated to the believers. Only in their case, the believing men can marry them without them getting a divorce from their rejecter husbands, even though they are already married, provided their dowers are returned to their rejecter husbands.
After thinking about all this, and considering 6010, the only logical conclusion I can come to is that "mohsinaat" in 424 means "believing women protected through marriage" or "married believing women" and all of them are forbidden for marriage to believing men except the "believing women married to rejecter husbands who emigrated to the believers" or "ma malakat aymanukum", without a divorce from their rejecter husbands, provided their dowers are returned to their rejecter husbands.
Peace and regards
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True true, i forgot that verse....
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Peace Samia,
I mean 254 (And whoever of you who has not the means to marry the believing muhsanaat?) as proof that muhSanaat does ot mean married, because you definitely have no way to marry a married woman.
What about 6010 then ? Please see my post to brother arnold above for details.
According to 6010 there is a way to marry married women in the case of the "mominaat" who were already married to "kuffar", and left their rejecter husbands and emigrated to the believers, provided their dowers are returned to their rejecter husbands.
I think "mohsinaat" can have different meanings depending on the context of its usage. It always means "protected believing women" but it can mean "independent/self-protected believing women", or "believing women protected through marriage" or "believing married/unmarried women protected by oath" depending on the context.
By the way, thank you for clarifying the understanding of "yatama al-nisa" as meaning "orphans of the women" rather than "women orphans".
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Thanks Tanveer, that's kind of you.
As for the verse 10 of Ch 60, this is another category of prohibited marriage between kafirs and Mu'mens (based on belief). But I think that the verses of ch 4 are based on a different category, and is addressing the believers (verse19 and onward)
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Reply to Anwaryasin
What is the meaning of (self protected) and ( can protect herself)? a Why would one not be able to marry a self-protected woman? (verse 25 ch4). Should he then go and marry the not-self-protected woman and make her (milk yameen)?
And to all What makes you think that these verses address men only?