a surah like it
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peace magi,
brother you posted a thread about "early quranic manuscripts" , kindly post the link as i can't find it )
thank you,
peace.I did? ???
I think i would like to read that aswell ;Dpeace
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Human love/compassion produces BETTER surahs than the quran... sun
lol the surahs of the quran promote that.
So in order for me to make a surah like it, it has to be a surah that makes mountains tremble?
lol not literally. If i put a copy of al-quran on top of a mountain will it tremble?
(But code 19 is no biggy and can be imitated IMO).
So as divine miracle, codes doesnt really prove anything. Am I understanding you correctly?
Code 19 is a bonus but it is by no means the only reason to prove quran is divine.
Are you saying that all the well behaving, peacefull people who call themself hindus, christians, jews, agnostics, gnostics etc. Scripts are inferior allthough they produce the very thing in people that you set as a criteria now?
by no means do i claim their scriptures are futile. All the wisdom in their scriptures is mentioned in al-quran but al-quran contains much, much more....
I am assuming, this is ofcourse wrong. I based it on the debate climate that has ruled this place for some time.
Im not saying by any length that it would change your view on the Quran. I said i found it interresting after looking into it myself, and it was more of a sidenote, to the "surah like it" itself.
I'm not sure what you mean.
No not at all. It is as much "from God" as any scripture that has it in, the power to produce honest, caring, reflecting human beings. that is my stand. I enjoy reading the Quran, as much as i enjoy reading the obvious truths to be found in the tablets. Why? beacuse its true. there is no way around it.
I once did a thread a while back and i said...
Is it true that the Quran is the best scripture God sent to mankind or are we not suppose to differentiate the scriptures cause I heard someone say that we should not differentiate the scriptures like we should not differentiate the messengers.
???Peace,
Sugarand i got an excellent answer from kyle....
Peace be upon you Sugar,
We are told to trust what is descended upon us and that which was descended to those before us. Its not about book vs book, its about truthful statements vs false statements. We do not differentiate between truth given by one or the other. All is considered Al Kitaab.
My own stand is that any scripture can end up being its own set of blinders, for whatever it intend to show you.
please elaborate.
Is this thread really about attempting to produce a surah like it? confused
....or is it scripture vs scripture?
peace,
sugar -
Code 19 is a bonus but it is by no means the only reason to prove quran is divine.
Given that it apparently require you to remove stuff. How is it a bonus?
by no means do i claim their scriptures are futile. All the wisdom in their scriptures is mentioned in al-quran but al-quran contains much, much more....
Like what? what can i learn from Quran, that i cannot learn from any other source alike?
I'm not sure what you mean.
fair enough, it stand as my own observation then.
it is indeed an excellent answer from kyle. What is the relevance to "the surah like it" posted?
You have argued so far that
1.I cannot make a surah like it
2.Without making mountains tremble
2.That people do behave in the same way without a surah like itAm i observing correctly? Would you be kind enough to let me know.
1.what are the rules for a surah like it as accepted by the broad mass of muslims?
2.who will be the judge?please elaborate.
I am afarid it would spawn a rather personal debate, that has nothing to do with this thread. Feel free to open another thread and ask the same question.
peace
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peace
can someone show me the "surah like it" verse?
I believe guidance can be found everywhere, not just in one book. God and his guidance is not limited to the quran.
The stories in the quran can be found in a lot of other sources before it, for example the bible.
Truth is from God. If we understand something, and find that it is true, then it is from God. In this way, we can be sure that most of the quran is from God. The rest I am not sure about.and we need a better understanding of the word "surah"
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Code 19 is a bonus but it is by no means the only reason to prove quran is divine.
Given that it apparently require you to remove stuff. How is it a bonus?
remove what?
it has been calculated again and those verses Dr. Rashad Khalifa removed are not actually false.
Like what? what can i learn from Quran, that i cannot learn from any other source alike?
maybe i should write a book about that )
Other scriptures have been vastly distorted unlike the quran.
And they are contradicting the Quran to some extent. Here is a link that very briefly shows how the Bible contradicts al-quran.
http//www.submission.org/god-bible.htmlit is indeed an excellent answer from kyle. What is the relevance to "the surah like it" posted?
judging from the manuscript you posted i was under the impression you wanted to start a debate about scripture vs scripture.
I really have no idea what you are getting at confused
Why are you so desperate to argue that anyone can produce a "surah like it" if you don't trust god when he says that no one can produce a surah like it confused
you said that you believe that the quran is from god but now I am under the impression you think god is an idiot? am i right?
peace,
sugar -
Peace sugar. Lots of the surahs in the quran can be used to 'hate' as well...Especially surah 9...,385 etc,etc...
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it has been calculated again and those verses Dr. Rashad Khalifa removed are not actually false.
I will verify this
Other scriptures have been vastly distorted unlike the quran.
This has nothing to do with a surah like it, however. I hear this claim over and over, there is just no way to truely verify the claim.
And they are contradicting the Quran to some extent. Here is a link that very briefly shows how the Bible contradicts al-quran.
http//www.submission.org/god-bible.htmlIm not looking for a scripture vs. scripture debate, you keep turning it this way. Do you want such a debate? Thanks for the link, its a good read, i have read it.
judging from the manuscript you posted i was under the impression you wanted to start a debate about scripture vs scripture.
I really have no idea what you are getting at confused
A surah like it. THe challenge. I produced a surah like it, and you say its not a surah like it. But still havent told me excactly why. And on what premises you make the judgement.
Why are you so desperate to argue that anyone can produce a "surah like it" if you don't trust god when he says that no one can produce a surah like it confused
Im not desperate to argue anything. Now there is another turn. Suddenly trusting God is trusting the Quran blindly. This leads me to a former question of yours, that now can be answered.
I said My own stand is that any scripture can end up being its own set of blinders, for whatever it intend to show you.
you said that you believe that the quran is from god but now I am under the impression you think god is an idiot? am i right?
peace,
sugarwhat makes you conclude this. And no. nothing could be further from the truth.
Still we need to sort out the subject at hand. A surah like it. I produced a surah like many in the Quran, several in fact. And you are telling me its a no go. Why?
Peace
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Peace phoenix. 223 and 1038 contain the 'challenges' for a surah like it...
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Salaamun alaikum,
A 'sura' refers to a coherent discourse about the existence and essence of man. Please see the CONTEXT of 2/23 which has been ignored for the most part.
The word sura doesn't appear to point towards the sections of al-quraan marked by the basmala. Rather, if one reads 10/37-38, in which 37 has al-quraan ITSELF as a subject and that it's a 'tafseel' (a 'what is what', if you like) of al-kitaab (the writ about humankind and its destiny), 38 is a challenge asking the reader to bring a coherent discourse like it. Therefore if anyone feels he or she can write something about the human being and his existence and essence, he or she can bring it forward for a direct comparison with al-quraan.
In my experience and to use Enquirer's phraseology, its entirely subjective; after reading a significant number of texts attempting to explain the human being, I have yet to encounter anything like al-quraan.
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Peace Mquran. If the view that the quran is the best discourse available/produceable is subjective,then what does the challenge mean? Surely a challenge would produce a somewhat objective conclusion,otherwise why issue a challenge based on subjectivity...?
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PhSo isn't it possible that some might see the quran as the ultimate "discourse" while someone may not?
It's actual, not possible. You can see for yourself here.
What is the standard with which we judge other "man made" surahs?
Conformity to the al-kitaab , i.e the writ about the being of man. Man's reality, as it were.
and what is the meaning of "quran"?
Recitation or declaration.
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Peace Mquran. If the view that the quran is the best discourse available/produceable is subjective,then what does the challenge mean? Surely a challenge would produce a somewhat objective conclusion,otherwise why issue a challenge based on subjectivity...?
It's subjective but who are the subjects? People who accept al-quraan as divine and those who do not. I accept its divinity and every read and discussion I have produces an enhancement of my experience of al-quraan. In my universe, it's objective, you might say. Of course, I appreciate in your universe, your 'subjectivty' is objective.
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Peace mquran. My subjectivity is not always objective...I can make mistakes and have incomplete oversights as well...
What is the purpose of the challenge if it is addressed to people who do not believe in the quran,and so is just an subjective opinion to them? -
peace.
Mquran, i really like your evaluation of it, and i have no problem accepting this as the challenge. I do however stand side with enquirer and phoenix on this. What good is a challenge that can only be subjectively measured.
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Peace mquran. My subjectivity is not always objective...I can make mistakes and have incomplete oversights as well...
What is the purpose of the challenge if it is addressed to people who do not believe in the quran,and so is just an subjective opinion to them?The challenge is addressed to those 'fee raib' (in doubt - see 2/23), not to those whose eyes, ears and hearts have been sealed. So the possibility of convincing them is there.