2:30
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In the Name of the Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
Peace be upon you
Recall that your Lord said to the angels, "I am placing a representative on Earth." They said, "Will You place therein one who will spread evil therein and shed blood, while we sing Your praises, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?" He said, "I know what you do not know."
My mother a while ago asked me an interesting question how did the angels know what evil and shedding blood meant? They must have witnessed it at the very least. Let the thoughts flow.
God Bless,
Imran
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Peace Imran (my younger brother's name by the way),
Recall that your Lord said to the angels, "I am placing a representative on Earth." They said, "Will You place therein one who will spread evil therein and shed blood, while we sing Your praises, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?" He said, "I know what you do not know."
My mother a while ago asked me an interesting question how did the angels know what even and shedding blood meant? They must have witnessed it at the very least. Let the thoughts flow.
No doubt, a very interesting and mind boggling question your mother asked. How did the angels knew what was going to happen before GOD? Evil and shedding blood has exactly what has and is happening, which confirms the angels? Now ask your mom how did the angels knew that when GOD said they had no idea of HIS plans? Were the angels wrong? Also please do ask your mom who and what is meant by "angels" and who actually said this? Excellent analysis.
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I seek refuge against every arrogant one who does not believe in the Day of Reckoning
In the name of God, The most Gracious, the most Merciful
peace be upon you
What I am interested in is
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When did this coversation take place?
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God is hinting at something when He says " I know what you do not know " And he's talking about something other than what the angels said.
Very intriguing indeed
Danish are you hinting at your view that you don't believe the Quran is divine?
Peace
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peace
Angels existed and knew what blodd shed was and evil was because there were other creatures alive on earth at the time (right?). This new representative CAN shed blood and commit evil deeds BUT can also do good things, follow and glorify the Lord. That is what God knows that the angels do not.
Hopefully someone can improve on this understanding, it shouldn't be hard.
peace -
salam all .
one small improvment would be that the successor in earth was Dawood(3826) not Adam .230 And your Lord said to the Angels "I am making a successor in earth." They said "Would You make in it those who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
3826 O Dawood, We have made you a successor in earth. Therefore, you shall judge among the people with the truth, and do not follow desire, lest it diverts you from the way of God. Surely, those who stray off the way of Allah ,for them is severe punishment for forgetting the Day of Reckoning.
3827 And We did not create the heaven and the earth, and everything between them, in vain. Such is the thinking of those who rejected. Therefore, woe to those who have rejected from the Fire.
3828 Or shall We make those who believe and do good works like those who corrupt in earth? Or shall We make the righteous like the wicked?
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Peace
I believe the angels were aware of the nature of God's new creation (man) and therefore knew that they have the potential to cause bloodshed and evil. Their nature is purer in that they have no freewill and follow Allah's commands and praise Him high praises always, so they wondered why God would create something not like them. It is not a question of knowing the future or that they knew what God didn't know yet (whoa!). If you create a new invention called the microwave and I see that it has the capability to cook foods in a fraction of the time, then I ask you why did you invent something that could be harmful to your health, and also this microwave doesn't refrigerate at all... then you reply, nah you didn't try my machine yet, check it out first. Bad example but I think the point is clear, I had no knowledge of the future, nor do I know more than the inventor, but I can deduce because I know the nature of how the machine works, then I can figure out where it's flaws may be. Just a thought.
Peace -
Peace Phoenix, All,
Angels existed and knew what blood shed was and evil was because there were other creatures alive on earth at the time (right?). This new representative CAN shed blood and commit evil deeds BUT can also do good things, follow and glorify the Lord. That is what God knows that the angels do not.
Precisely. The malaikat (controllers) were already "at work" on Earth. They knew what the humanoid species was capable of, ie, bloodshed. What they did not know was that God was giving the humanoids (Adam), from God's own essence, a soul and freewill and the ability to gain knowledge. See 231-32
231 And He taught Adam the description of all things, then He displayed them to the Angels and said "Inform Me the descriptions of these things if you are truthful."
So, you see, before this teaching from God, "Adam" was already here.
232 They said, "Be You glorified, we have no knowledge, except that which You have taught us. You are the Omniscient, Most Wise."
Peace,
Tay -
I seek refuge in God from every arrogant one who does not believe in the Day of Judgement
In the name of The Most Gracious, The Most Mercifulpeace be upon you and thanks for your replies
Salaam Fahad
Thank you my young brother for posting these verses. IK can now understand this clearly.
Thank you
I did remember most of the verses in relation from memory. I just like to have other people's opinions based on
They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom GOD has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.
salam all .
one small improvment would be that the successor in earth was Dawood(3826) not Adam .230 And your Lord said to the Angels "I am making a successor in earth." They said "Would You place in it those who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
3826 O Dawood, We have made you a successor in earth. Therefore, you shall judge among the people with the truth, and do not follow desire, lest it diverts you from the way of God. Surely, those who stray off the way of Allah ,for them is severe punishment for forgetting the Day of Reckoning.
3827 And We did not create the heaven and the earth, and everything between them, in vain. Such is the thinking of those who rejected. Therefore, woe to those who have rejected from the Fire.
3828 Or shall We place those who believe and do good works like those who corrupt in earth? Or shall We place the righteous like the wicked?
I believe Dawood being a successor on earth doesn't necessarily mean he was the first one on earth (Though I don't necessarily disagree, I like to keep my options open). For example if a messenger existed in today's time, he'd be a successor. And the righteous servants who exist today are the successors etc.. I believe this sentiment is repeated in the Quran I just can't remember the verses at this time.
Peace Phoenix, All,
Angels existed and knew what blood shed was and evil was because there were other creatures alive on earth at the time (right?). This new representative CAN shed blood and commit evil deeds BUT can also do good things, follow and glorify the Lord. That is what God knows that the angels do not.
Precisely. The malaikat (controllers) were already "at work" on Earth. They knew what the humanoid species was capable of, ie, bloodshed. What they did not know was that God was giving the humanoids (Adam), from God's own essence, a soul and freewill and the ability to gain knowledge. See 231-32
231 And He taught Adam the description of all things, then He displayed them to the Angels and said "Inform Me the descriptions of these things if you are truthful."
So, you see, before this teaching from God, "Adam" was already here.
232 They said, "Be You glorified, we have no knowledge, except that which You have taught us. You are the Omniscient, Most Wise."
Peace,
TayGreat post. You reminded me of something I usually do, but didn't do here. Which is going through the context of the verses in question. So not to take anything out of context.
I am glad that you haven't left the forum.
God bless !
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Peace
ok I just realized my last post makes no sense rotflI see you all are in agreement with the idea that there were humans on earth before Adam and that the malaika were controlling them... could you please explain this to me ? i never heard of that before.
Thanks
Peace -
Peace Soul2Squeeze,
You stated
I see you all are in agreement with the idea that there were humans on earth before Adam and that the malaika were controlling them
Not quite. The term "controllers" in correspondence with malaikat does not necessitate a master/slave relationship. It simply means they are in control of certain aspects of this reality. But the ultimate control is always with God. The malaikat, as described in the Qur'an, seem to have many jobs, such as universal forces, weather energy, emotions, and subliminal communication.
could you please explain this to me ? i never heard of that before.
First, it is my understanding that any dialogue described between God and the malaikat is strictly metaphorical, as any communication between the 2 would consist of something we could not readily understand.
So, getting to the point, life evolved from the big bang, to the single cell, to bacteria, to plant life, to animal life, and so on until you get to the human being. At the time of the "conversation" between God and the malaikat, there were no human beings yet, but hominids - or human-like creatures evolved from primates. So the malaikat knew of these creatures who were catalysed by animal instinct. They knew these creatures were animals(though, probably highly intelligent) and not worthy of the blessing God decided to bestow. But God said, "I know what you know not".
This is where one of 2 things happened, according to my understanding thus far. Either God instantly 'breathed' into these creatures, thus, sort of downloading a soul into the animals. Or, the 'breathing' happened early on in the development of life and the next step up the evolutionary ladder equated to these creatures growing a soul.
In either case, there was a definitive point in between the 2 stages when the malaikat were not aware until God made them aware.
I hope that helps.
Peace,
Tay -
This is where one of 2 things happened, according to my understanding thus far. Either God instantly 'breathed' into these creatures, thus, sort of downloading a soul into the animals. Or, the 'breathing' happened early on in the development of life and the next step up the evolutionary ladder equated to these creatures growing a soul.
Peace Tay, all
I think at this point, humans acquired the ability of abstraction (Adam) naming things and communicating ideas, which gave them a great advantage compared to other animals. This is the begining of "bani adam".
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Peace Someone,
I think at this point, humans acquired the ability of abstraction (Adam) naming things and communicating ideas, which gave them a great advantage compared to other animals. This is the begining of "bani adam".
I agree. And you worded that much better than I did. Thanks.
Peace,
Tay -
I think at this point, humans acquired the ability of abstraction (Adam) naming things and communicating ideas, which gave them a great advantage compared to other animals. This is the begining of "bani adam".
Not sure if thats correct, but I haven't studied it thoroughly.
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Peace
That's quite an interesting analysis! I never thought of it that way. Of course we are still looking for the missing link in the theory of evolution ...
Also, does that mean that animals do not have souls?
Some good food for thought though.
Thanks for the info
Peace -
Peace,
I've been applying grammar to clarify the narratives referring to Adam. It does help because in English we cannot know the specifics of demonstrative pronouns like, them, those, these etc. I hope my color coding makes it easy to follow. Please let me know what you understand or if this changes or clarifies your understanding.Adam, The First Nabiy
230
Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikati innee jaAAilun fee al-ardi khaleefatan qaloo atajAAalu feeha man yufsidu feeha wa yasfiku alddimaa wanahnu nusabbihu bihamdika wanuqaddisu laka qala innee aAAlamu ma la taAAlamoonaAnd when your Lord said to the controllers "That I am making/creating/putting in the earth an alternate/successor." They said "Do you make/create/put in it, who corrupts in it and sheds the blood, and we ceaselessly glide towards with Your praise and we (continue to admit/manifest Your) spotless wholesomeness to You." He said "I know what you do not know."
231
WaAAallama adama al-asmaa kullaha thumma AAaradahum AAala almala-ikati faqala anbi-oonee bi-asma-i haola-i in kuntum sadiqeenaAnd He taught Adam the descriptions/designations, all of them , then He displayed/exhibited/showed them on (to) the controllers, Thus He said "Inform Me with the descriptions/designations (of) these , if you were truthful."
232
Qaloo subhanaka la AAilma lana illa ma AAallamtana innaka anta alAAaleemu alhakeemuThey said "Your glory , no knowledge to us except what You taught us , that You are the knowledgeable, the wise/judicious ."
233
Qala ya adamu anbi/hum bi-asma-ihim falamma anbaahum bi-asma-ihim qala alam aqul lakum innee aAAlamu ghayba alssamawati waal-ardi waaAAlamu ma tubdoona wama kuntum taktumoonaHe said "You, Adam, inform them with their descriptions/designations." so when he informed them with their descriptions/designations, He (God) said "Did I not say to you, that I know the heights/skies'/space's and the earth's unseen and I know what you manifest/show, and what you were hiding/concealing."
Notes Q. 230 ?yufsidu? & ?yasfiku? are in the present tense. These people already exist in the earth. AAallama is Form II of verb ?a-la-ma. The action, ?to know? is carried out upon someone or something becomes ?taught?.
See Q. 332/33 Adam was ?astafa/chosen & purified? And Q 7144 Musa was astafa.
Q. 231 kula=ha Since ?asma? is plural and the word ?kula-ha? is singular it denotes that the word is referring to non-humans. All + fem. sing. ha = non-humans . Otherwise the ending would read hum them plural referring to humans only]
ha?ulaai= ?these? (near) (not ?those?) plural, this plural is used for humans only.
Observations Khalifatan The root of this word is successor or alternate. A ?khalifatan? is the alternate/successor who will ?nabi/inform? the humans of the God?s guidance. These Khalifatan are successors to the primitive humans. The humans have reached or evolved to where they can learn and apply God?s guidance. They, the humans are being presented to the controllers to show their capacity for good once Adam, chosen by the God, has been taught the God?s descriptions and he informs the others. Adam is a ?Nabiy?.
The reading/Qur'aan begins ?with The God?s Description/Designation? BISMILLAH. The same word ?asma? used for what was taught to Adam. The controllers have no knowledge of this capacity to be civilized in the humans who already existed. . They only know of the manifested corrupt , violent, viciousness of humans. The God replies says He knows what is unseen and hidden that the controllers could not know.
This is also not a narrative referring to the creation or origination of mankind as professed by some traditionalists.
