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Hello All
The angels could not know the future, they already said that to Allah that THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT ALLAH DIDN'T TELL THEM"
they knew nothing about the intension of Allah other thatn what He told them that He will create a Khalifa on earth, their wonder of shedding blood and mischief on earth must be based on another Khalifa that was put on earth
if we look in the quran we can see one candidate that fits in like a glove
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The Jinn was created before the Ins, hence this might tell us how the angels knew that a khalifa will shed blood and cause mischief
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The Jinn have freewill
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Many of the Jinn are bad
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The Jinn live on earth
therefore we can conjecture that the angels most likely were referring to the experience they witnessed from the Jinn on earth
Salam
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salam all .
one small improvment would be that the successor in earth was Dawood(3826) not Adam .230 And your Lord said to the Angels "I am making a successor in earth." They said "Would You make in it those who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
3826 O Dawood, We have made you a successor in earth. Therefore, you shall judge among the people with the truth, and do not follow desire, lest it diverts you from the way of God. Surely, those who stray off the way of Allah ,for them is severe punishment for forgetting the Day of Reckoning.
3827 And We did not create the heaven and the earth, and everything between them, in vain. Such is the thinking of those who rejected. Therefore, woe to those who have rejected from the Fire.
3828 Or shall We make those who believe and do good works like those who corrupt in earth? Or shall We make the righteous like the wicked?
I believe Dawood being a successor on earth doesn't necessarily mean he was the first one on earth (Though I don't necessarily disagree, I like to keep my options open). For example if a messenger existed in today's time, he'd be a successor. And the righteous servants who exist today are the successors etc.. I believe this sentiment is repeated in the Quran I just can't remember the verses at this time.
salam .
i didnt say first one or last one . i only meant the khalifa mentioned in 230 . verse 230 tells us that Allah is making a person successor in earth , and verse 3826 tells us the name of THAT person . and you can also see that wording similar to 230 is used in the following verse 3828 as well , which further indicates that the khalifa mentioned in 230 is indeed Dawood230 ...They(angels) said(to Allah) "Would You make in it(earth) those who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
3828 Or shall We make those who believe and do good works like those who corrupt in earth? Or shall We make the righteous like the wicked?
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peace
230 is about adam, see 231
230 And your Lord said to the Angels "I am placing a successor on Earth." They said "Would You place in it he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
231 And He taught Adam the description of all things, then He displayed them to the Angels and said "Inform Me the descriptions of these things if you are truthful."
232 They said "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except that which You have taught us, You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise."
233 He said "O Adam, inform them of the description of these," so when he informed them of their descriptions, He said "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen of heavens and Earth, and that I know what you reveal and what you were hiding?"
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Salaam Imran K
I do not know if someone mentioned this or not but there is a verse in Qur'aan where Allah says that He allowed the Angels to witness or take part in creation but not the Jinn. At the moment I can't recall that verse, but if Allah allowed the Angels to witness/take part in creation of the Universe etc. then they would most likely have knowledge of the things in the physical realm such as evil, bloodshed, etc. and more...
Salaam
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salaam al khadir,
perhaps this is what you speak of?
1850 And We said to the Angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord. "Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy?" Miserable for the wicked is the substitute!
1851 I did not make them witness the creation of heavens and Earth, nor the creation of themselves. Nor do I take the misleaders as helpers.
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230 is about adam, see 231
verse 230 deosnt even mention Adam . verse 231 is about Adam , not verse 230 . verses 3826 and 3828 explain verse 230 .
Adam is not called "khalifa" anywhere in the Koran . while Dawood is called "khalifa" by name .
Hello brother Saldin
Bro, what you are saying is way out of sense, I guess you need to do more Quran researches
Cheers
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Hello brother Saldin
Bro, what you are saying is way out of sense, I guess you need to do more Quran researches
Cheers
hello bro
ofcourse i need to do many more researches on many areas of the Quran . but can u please tell me ,what part of my above post seemed way out of sense to you ?cheers
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Hello brother Saldin
Bro, what you are saying is way out of sense, I guess you need to do more Quran researches
Cheers
hello bro )
ofcourse i need to do many more researches on many areas of the Quran . but can u please tell me ,what part of my above post seemed way out of sense to you ?cheers )
Thanks for not taking it as an offence
why you isolating 230 from the rest of the verses after it?
clearly Allah told the angels He will put a bashar on earth, at this moment possibly that bashar has not been named yet, then the verses continue that Allah taught Adam all the names and ordered the angels to bow to him, so Adam was that bashar mentioned in 230
also Khalifa is a title more than a name, it is also used as a name as many titles, like KING, which is "malik" can also be a human name, in the context of 230 it can't be a human name, because the angels didn't know who is the bashar named "Khalifah" from the first place, and they never actually wondered about who is khalifah
also how come Dawood was named "khalifah"?, possibly he was titled Khalifa, but as far as i know he was titled a KING, as well many came with names and titles of Khalifahs, so why Dawood who never titled one as far as i know yet never called by name Khlaifah
Khalifah actually means "to come after another", and because it was meant on humans, ut means Allah will create us on earth where "we will Nakhlaf each other", generations after generations untill the JD
cheers
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Thanks for not taking it as an offence
why you isolating 230 from the rest of the verses after it?
clearly Allah told the angels He will put a bashar on earth, at this moment possibly that bashar has not been named yet, then the verses continue that Allah taught Adam all the names and ordered the angels to bow to him, so Adam was that bashar mentioned in 230
well , why are you isolating 230 from 3826-28 ? the Koran talks about different topics at the same time . to understand a topic , we need to bring together the verses about that particular topics , like joining the pieces of a puzzle to see the full picture . thats what i just did .
also Khalifa is a title more than a name, it is also used as a name as many titles, like KING, which is "malik" can also be a human name, in the context of 230 it can't be a human name, because the angels didn't know who is the bashar named "Khalifah" from the first place, and they never actually wondered about who is khalifah
i didnt say that Dawood's name was "khalifa" . i was saying that Allah calls Dawood by his name, when telling him that He has made him a khalifa in earth (3826) .
also how come Dawood was named "khalifah"?, possibly he was titled Khalifa, but as far as i know he was titled a KING, as well many came with names and titles of Khalifahs, so why Dawood who never titled one as far as i know yet never called by name Khlaifah
3826 O Dawood, We have made you a successor in earth...
peace.
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the Koran talks about different topics at the same time . to understand a topic , we need to bring together the verses about that particular topics , like joining the pieces of a puzzle to see the full picture . thats what i just did .
Peace bro
Ok
i didnt say that Dawood's name was "khalifa" . i was saying that Allah calls Dawood by his name, when telling him that He has made him a khalifa in earth (3826) .
hmmm, so what you say for the following 4 verses then, Allah is calling all of us ?Khalaif Fi Al Ard?, exactly like Adam and exactly like Dawood
And He it is Who has made you successors of the earth and raised some of you above others by (various) grades, that He might try you by what He has given you; surely your Lord is quick to requite (evil), and He is most surely the Forgiving, the Merciful.
(165)
Then We made you successors in the earth after them so that We may see how you act.
(14)
They rejected Him, but We delivered him, and those with him, in the Ark, and We made them inherit (the earth), while We overwhelmed in the flood those who rejected Our Signs. Then see what was the end of those who were warned (but heeded not)!
(73)
He it is That has made you inheritors in the earth if, then, any do reject (Allah), their rejection (works) against themselves their rejection but adds to the odium for the Unbelievers in the sight of their Lord their rejection but adds to (their own) undoing.
(39)
See, all of us were called Khalaif 4 times, more than Adam and Dawood, would that make it more that Allah is talking about Humans, when He said ?Khalifa??
3826 O Dawood, We have made you a successor in earth...
Great, now you need to explain to us, 6165, 1014, 1073 and 3526 where Allah called the Humans ? ?, ?Khalaif Fi Al Ard?, can you see that Khalaif is the Plural of Khalifa?
Salam
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Salaam Imran K
Alhamdulillah, thanks that was the verse I was referring to where Allah did not allow the Jinn to witness the creation. But there is also another verse, I do not know where off hand that says the Angels helped in creation.
Salaam
salaam al khadir,
perhaps this is what you speak of?
1850 And We said to the Angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord. "Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy?" Miserable for the wicked is the substitute!
1851 I did not make them witness the creation of heavens and Earth, nor the creation of themselves. Nor do I take the misleaders as helpers.
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salam Ahmed .
i didnt say that Dawood's name was "khalifa" . i was saying that Allah calls Dawood by his name, when telling him that He has made him a khalifa in earth (3826) .
hmmm, so what you say for the following 4 verses then, Allah is calling all of us ?Khalaif Fi Al Ard?,......
the "khalaif fi al ard" in the four verses do not necessarily include Dawood . i was only talking about 230 . that the khalifa in verse 230 is Dawood .
......Allah is calling all of us ?Khalaif Fi Al Ard? exactly like Adam...
nope . Allah does not call Adam a "khalifa" even once .
.....and exactly like Dawood
not exactly like Dawood . only verse 3826 calls Dawood "khalifa" exactly like in 230 . and verse 3828 also talks about "those who corrupt in earth" , like the angels asked in verse 230 .
230 ...They(angels) said(to Allah) "Would You make in it(earth) those who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
3828 Or shall We make those who believe and do good works like those who corrupt in earth? Or shall We make the righteous like the wicked?
so only 3826-28 call Dawood "khalifa" EXACTLY like in 230 .
See, all of us were called Khalaif 4 times, more than Adam and Dawood, would that make it more that Allah is talking about Humans, when He said ?Khalifa??
in 230 ? no . because "humans" is plural and "khalifa" is singular . only Dawood fits in 230 .
peace bro.
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salam Ahmed .
i didnt say that Dawood's name was "khalifa" . i was saying that Allah calls Dawood by his name, when telling him that He has made him a khalifa in earth (3826) .
hmmm, so what you say for the following 4 verses then, Allah is calling all of us Khalaif Fi Al Ard,......
the "khalaif fi al ard" in the four verses do not necessarily include Dawood . i was only talking about 230 . that the khalifa in verse 230 is Dawood .
......Allah is calling all of us Khalaif Fi Al Ard exactly like Adam...
nope . Allah does not call Adam a "khalifa" even once .
.....and exactly like Dawood
not exactly like Dawood . only verse 3826 calls Dawood "khalifa" exactly like in 230 . and verse 3828 also talks about "those who corrupt in earth" , like the angels asked in verse 230 .
230 ...They(angels) said(to Allah) "Would You make in it(earth) those who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
3828 Or shall We make those who believe and do good works like those who corrupt in earth? Or shall We make the righteous like the wicked?
so only 3826-28 call Dawood "khalifa" EXACTLY like in 230 .
See, all of us were called Khalaif 4 times, more than Adam and Dawood, would that make it more that Allah is talking about Humans, when He said Khalifa?
in 230 ? no . because "humans" is plural and "khalifa" is singular . only Dawood fits in 230 .
peace bro.
Peace bro
so for you 230 is not talking about Adam but 231 is talking about Adam, right?
now who is Adam for you exactly?
Salam
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the "khalaif fi al ard" in the four verses do not necessarily include Dawood . i was only talking about 230 . that the khalifa in verse 230 is Dawood .
Peace Brother Saladin
Please brother if you are going to do this non sense by linking words fro different places because they are the same then I?m sorry I will not discuss the Quran with you any more, I thought you are young and want to learn it properly but it seems you are dragging yourself to the unknown and again I will have no time to waste with you, I?m a very busy man bro and I thought you will appreciate me spending the time to explain it to you, but when it comes to the basics and your insistence on things that just do not make sense I start to worry about you as well about my time therefore this is going to be my last comment to you
Now Allah is saying to all humanity that HE MADE US KHALAIF FI AL ARD, why Dawood is not one of those humans?, I don?t need an answer bro, I?m just putting the question to the public
You are saying that Khalifa in 230 is Dawood and your only laughable evidence is another verse that Allah is telling Dawood that He made him Khalifa?, answer the public bro, not me
Mate this is ridiculous, Allah was telling Dawood that He gave him power ?Khalifa?, ?King?, ?A Title? ?A Job?, so he must judge justly between other humans under his authority as a Khalifa Fi Al Ard like many other Khalifa Fi Al Ard, or is it for you that Dawood is the only Khalifa Fi Al Ard? See how laughable your argument is?
Now I showed you 4 times from the Quran that Allah called ALL HUMANS Khaliaf, so why the hell you want Dawood to be the only Khalifa?
Bro I need no answer from you, but you can offer an answer to the public, but I have to tell you bro the public is looking for a logical answer not Tom and Jerry sort of answer
nope . Allah does not call Adam a "khalifa" even once .
Therefore, Dawood is the only Khalifa, haha
not exactly like Dawood . only verse 3826 calls Dawood "khalifa" exactly like in 230 . and verse 3828 also talks about "those who corrupt in earth" , like the angels asked in verse 230 .
excuse me bro, don't confuse the subject in here, ?those who corrupt in earth? has nothing to do with the argument we have in hand
now here is the question the public may be looking for an answer from you
is Dawood the only Khalifa on earth for you?
230 ...They(angels) said(to Allah) "Would You make in it(earth) those who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
3828 Or shall We make those who believe and do good works like those who corrupt in earth? Or shall We make the righteous like the wicked?
so only 3826-28 call Dawood "khalifa" EXACTLY like in 230 .
yeh yeh, I know this word matching game I used to play when I was a kid
in 230 ? no . because "humans" is plural and "khalifa" is singular . only Dawood fits in 230 .
peace bro.
Mate, I already told you that it is Plural, you have added nothing indeed, why Allah call the people as one khalifa while the people are plural?, again bro offer your answer to the public, I have no time to waste
all the best brother Saladin
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peace bro Ahmed.
the "khalaif fi al ard" in the four verses do not necessarily include Dawood . i was only talking about 230 . that the khalifa in verse 230 is Dawood .
Peace Brother Saladin
Please brother if you are going to do this non sense by linking words fro different places because they are the same then I?m sorry I will not discuss the Quran with you any more, I thought you are young and want to learn it properly but it seems you are dragging yourself to the unknown and again I will have no time to waste with you, I?m a very busy man bro and I thought you will appreciate me spending the time to explain it to you,
i appreciate your spending the time to explain things to me . but that doesnt mean that i should agree with you on everything .
but when it comes to the basics and your insistence on things that just do not make sense I start to worry about you as well about my time therefore this is going to be my last comment to you
ok.
You are saying that Khalifa in 230 is Dawood and your only laughable evidence is another verse that Allah is telling Dawood that He made him Khalifa?, answer the public bro, not me
i already have .
Mate this is ridiculous, Allah was telling Dawood that He gave him power ?Khalifa?, ?King?, ?A Title? ?A Job?, so he must judge justly between other humans under his authority as a Khalifa Fi Al Ard like many other Khalifa Fi Al Ard, or is it for you that Dawood is the only Khalifa Fi Al Ard? ...
did i say that ?
Now I showed you 4 times from the Quran that Allah called ALL HUMANS Khaliaf, so why the hell you want Dawood to be the only Khalifa?
since bro Ahmed is not gonna reply to me anymore , can anyone else show me where i said Dawood is the only khalifa?
Bro I need no answer from you, but you can offer an answer to the public, but I have to tell you bro the public is looking for a logical answer not Tom and Jerry sort of answer
public, please tell me which part of my post was tom and which one was jerry .
not exactly like Dawood . only verse 3826 calls Dawood "khalifa" exactly like in 230 . and verse 3828 also talks about "those who corrupt in earth" , like the angels asked in verse 230 .
excuse me bro, don't confuse the subject in here, ?those who corrupt in earth? has nothing to do with the argument we have in hand
now here is the question the public may be looking for an answer from you
is Dawood the only Khalifa on earth for you?
no, public.
all the best brother Saladin
thanks bro . same to you . )
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Peace Saladin
When the verses 230 and 3828 say ?THOSE WHO BELIEVE?? and ?THOSE WHO CORRUPT?.? in plural how can it refer to David , in which case the 2 verses should be in singular .
peace warner.
How can "those who corrupt in earth" refer to Dawood ?! o Did Dawood corrupt in earth ?! Does Allah make "those who believe and do good works" like "those who corrupt in earth" ?
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Peace Saladin
If you assume the successor referred to in 230 as David and add David to the verse, God says?? I will create David as a successor on earth? to which the angels reply ?..Would You make in it(earth) those who would corrupt in it, and spill blood??. Here the angels assume David will corrupt the earth and they are talking of David in Plural. I hope you will notice the word ?THOSE?.
Also,
If you try the same in 3826-28, the verse 28 if indicating to David should read
?is the one (singular) who believe???like the one/those who corrupt?
Whereas the verse actually says
?Is those (plural) who believe??like those who corrupt.?
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peace saladin
you are taking the Dawood verse out of context, nowhere is it mentioned that this is connected to 230. 231 starts with AND. And is always a continuation of something...