3 Salat Times
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Peace Sister Omeiza,
Excellent ijtihad on your part. By breaking down the arabic in the aya you have made it quite simple for others to understand exactly how many salawat are needed during the daytime hours. May God Bless you and increase your knowledge! I have posted a link to your post in another thread where we are debating the same issue. Please chime in over there as well if you have any more insights to other ayat that were mentioned in that thread.
Here is the link to that thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6028.msg93713#msg93713
Peace All
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peace
But does it really says that we shall bow down physically? And what good does that do to you? To bow down physically it feels like I'm doing idolworship of the ground or something else around me.
To me, its both MENTAL and PHYSICAL. I am NOT worshipping the ground, I am worshipping GOD. The act of bowing and prostrating are ways of showing my submission to God. Tell me when in the Quran it says on the Day of resurrection
A. All the angels will be kneeling
B. Whoever God is speaking to will fall prostrate... is this not physical?
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peace waleed
did you read Wakas' article?
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/quran_on_salat.htm
This next one is defining what IS salat
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/slw.htm
BTW, he also believes in the 2 salat theory.
Also read the thread that Soul2Squeeze posted above if you haven't already.
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peace Imran,
yes, i read Wakas's article.
I think what Damon (right?) says about Salat being different things depending on context is correct. Kind of like the whole Jinn thing.
I always thought that Salat was anything that you do to "connect" with God.
What Kyle says about the importance of the timings being sunrise and sunset makes sense. That's why i think the 2 time salat makes more sense.what soul2squeeze said about Omeiza's interpretation I can't comment on since it has to do with the arabic of the verses.
What does "glorify" have to do with "salat?" -
also, i don't think prostrating is physical.
It's a metaphor for obeying/submitting. physical prostration does nothing to your INNER self, the part that counts. It is only to SHOW others. Your physical prostration can be a lie, your mental prostration cannot be. -
not if you are not praying in front of people....
What you should've said was
MY phsyical prostration does nothing to MY inner-self.
However, to me MY physical prostration helps me grow inside.
"Each his own." Speak for yourself....
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peace
i worded it wrong... re-edited...
I agree no-one should pray in front of people to show off. That's strictly called out in the Quran.
how does it improve you or bring you closer to God?
You wouldn't understand that because you are not me (no sarcasm intended)
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that is YOUR interpretation. However, at this time mine is different. Though, since you brought it up i will read the quran with that interpretation in mind GW. I am not saying just physical. I am saying mental and physical.
How do you mentally surrender to God?
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peace
Alright these set of verses put an end to 'no physical prostation' theory
343 "O Mary, be devoted to your Lord and prostrate and kneel with those who kneel.
2125 And We have made the Sanctuary to be a model for the people and a security. And they took the location of Abraham to make the bond. And We had entrusted to Abraham and Ishmael "You shall purify My Sanctuary for those who visit, those who are devoted, and for those who kneel and prostrate."
3113 They are not all the same, from the people of the Scripture are a nation that is upright; they recite God's revelations during the night and they prostrate.
4102 And if thou are with them and you maintain the bond for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; and let a group who has not yet bonded come and bond with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.
That verse puts the end to 'no physical prostration' view. That is a demonstration of a real life salat taking place (in time of war).
7117 And We inspired Moses "Throw down your staff;" and it swallowed what they invented.
7118 Thus the truth was set, and what they did was made of no effect.
7119 They were thus defeated there and then, and they turned in disgrace.
7120 And the magicians went down prostrating.
7121 They said "We believe in the Lord of the worlds."
7122 "The Lord of Moses and Aaron."How can this not be physical ?!
There are many more i can post, but these are clear
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Peace,
Prostration itself, the word sujood is also used in the Israel stories where they should have enterred the city in sujood, implying in obedience. So sujood itself has multiple meanings. In 4102, i agree 100% that it refers to physical prayer. But not all sujood's/prostrations mentioned in the Quran refer to physical prostration. To say that all of them don't refer to physical prostration is also wrong. Edip wrote an article about this
http//19.org/index.php?id=14,276,0,0,1,0
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Peace,
<snip>So sujood itself has multiple meanings. In 4102, i agree 100% that it refers to physical prayer. But not all sujood's/prostrations mentioned in the Quran refer to physical prostration. To say that all of them don't refer to physical prostration is also wrong. Edip wrote an article about this
http//19.org/index.php?id=14,276,0,0,1,0
Peace arnoldyasin,
4102 if interpreted to physical prayer, how then is possible for the Prophet to lead the ritual prayer for the Unbelievers?
Q4.101-102 "....for fear the Unbelievers May attack you For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies. When thou (O Apostle) art with them, and standest to lead them in prayer, Let one party of them stand up (in prayer) with thee, T.."
Appreciate your clarification.
Peace
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Peace,
Go to the link of Wakas above, which explains that the unbelievers are not connected with the 'them' he prays with..
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peace
But not all sujood's/prostrations mentioned in the Quran refer to physical prostration. To say that all of them don't refer to physical prostration is also wrong
I agree, I was reffering to the claim that physical prostration/bowing doesnt exist in the
Quran, which is not true. -
Peace,
Go to the link of Wakas above, which explains that the unbelievers are not connected with the 'them' he prays with..
Peace arnoldyasin,
Thanks for the link.
This may be repitive to some of us.
Here is my reasoning...
4101 discusses slw for the messenger and those with him, no-one else.
Prior to 4102, the subject of reference when using "...kum/hum" is NEVER the kafireen. It references the messenger and those with him. And this is how it continues into 4102.
Pardon me for asking this, where in 4.101 tells that the mesengger is the one who is travelling? Do I see a Hasty generalization in arriving to this conclusion?
All I can see that in 4.100 it says "Anyone who gives up his home, emigrating to GOD and His messenger, then death catches up with him, his recompense is reserved with GOD. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful."
Based on what evidence do we say that 4.101 is referring to the messenger and those with him?
Waiting for your clarification.
Peace.
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peace Phil,
Please refer to the Arabic or the transliteration and note the "...tum/hum/kum" usage.
For example
Wa-itha (and if) darabtum (you separate/travel)
This is referring to a specific people mentioned in context, after which it introduces the kafireen, but never refers to them with "...tum/kum/hum" etc. Even after kafireen are introduced it still uses "lakum (to you)" for example, to refer back to the people being referenced in the context.
However, I have written an article on how the idolaters/polytheists can uphold the salat, see chapter 9. Or the following article
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/disproved_salatequalsprayer.htmWakas
