Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory
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Peace Fj
Like i said before you guys are some funny Muslims. You contradict your statment. in this post u said u believe things can be scattered around in the Qur'aan but in your other post you said this
?To me 2458 is the only verse that maps out Salaat times?
So therefore you are saying that all salaat times are in that verse. Brother Khidr answered u correctly he provided the Salaat verses where they all are scattered at and it came up to 5 Salaat. Also to Allah do not have to mention the word salaat to refer to a period of salaat either. Khidr also address the mistake that many of you have made by just looking at one verse and not looking at other verses in other parts of the Qur'aan to put the context together like 5 Salaat. 11114 mentions 3 Salaat times. I do not know about u guys sometimes.
so do u believe Allah authorized 2 or 3 or 5 Salaat in the qur'aan?
Selaam all,
No_shirk you said
This is your quote ?To me 2458 is the only verse that maps out Salaat times?
And that is the problem you guys are funny Muslims, you think all the salaat periods are mentioned in that verse. Brother Khidr already addressed that. Here is what he said in one of his post he wrote to you.
Funny Muslims!!, keep on mocking brother!!! Note how you are trying to say that he addressed my question but he didn't. That excerpt only addressed the fact that infos are scattered throughout the Quran and I agree with that. So, why don't you answer that simple question of mine but bring another embelished post just to avoid answering. Can it be any clearer than this?
First private time Salaat --- intermingle ---2nd private time is when we return --- intermingle --- 3rd private time Salaat. Those required asks for permition to enter the room before one is doing the Salaat, then after Salaat one either intermingles with them or they come and intermingle with him/her and if one goes outside to attend to business or whatever then when returning this is another private time no mention of Salaat here, - (remember God does not run out of words He could have easely said Salaat here but He didn't) - after this private time one either goes and intermingles with them or they come and intermingle with him/her and again the third time for them to ask for permition is after Salaat. Very clear indeed?Peace brothers
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Salaam Enquirer
I see what you are saying about age and everything. but for me when it comes to practising Salaat. I don't want works for me becuase I believe that Allah knows what works. So when i study the Qur'aan i am in the frame of mind to seek out how Allah wants us to observe salaat and not how i want it. Sometimes with human nature we may want 1 Salaat even though Allah told us that we have to observe or do more. I am here to submit to Allah so for me i want to know His way on how I should submit. Thats my pholisphy. Salaam
Peace no_shirk. I respect your post about age,i am not saying that every older person is automatically more knowledgeable/wiser than a younger one....But i am saying that i respect those who have some real life-experience regarding what they are saying....Not just people quoting books or intellectualising academically on the seat of their pants,with no real research...You know its easy to claim this and that number of salats is better,more effective or has more legitimacy by quoting different verses or academics.....I suggest trying which number and method of prayer/meditation/salat/pondering practically suits an individual best,and which method produces results in terms of effective/peaceful/productive behaviour for a given individual....I know many people who pray 5 times a day and are pretty much horrible people..... (the taliban,bin laden and other less extreme examples are widespread in society,just join a mosque and see the behaviour of some people. ) So my answer is do whatever changes OUR behaviour for the better,even if we have to resort to zen meditation or anger management... elektro muscle handshake peace
ps; also,why the need for one number/one size fits all methods and numbers of prayers? We are all individuals,and what works for me may not work for you,and vice versa....We all have to eat food,yes,but the same type and the same number of meals every day??!! Maybe prayer once a day works best for some people...? -
Peace
if i was phoenix i would change my name into massive online terrorist until something better came up rotfl
sorry i couldn't let this one pass by
elke
bravo bravo bravo
rotfl rotfl rotflI can hardly describe how delighted I am to see the discreet panicky pandemonium this word "terror" has created out here. The barrage of these prompt and hurried replies (in this and other threads), frantically scrambling to change user names yet again, and trying to sound casual & uniquely funny only asserts my point still further. After all, guilty conscience always pricks .. and the best way to defuse it to make light of it. Of course everyone knows that, but what a way to fight a losing battle!
As for 'enquirer' .. I saw at a glance some response posted by him. Needless to say, I neither have the time nor the inclination to read his kind of bunkum. I'd only say .. you've now got a good chance to get into business. You could be a suitable successor of Red Buttons.
Thanks to the little terror dunces for this stupendous 'entertainment.' I knew my posts would create a furore, but not such a big one .. and so much to my amusement!! yay
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zainab, if you hate us sooooooooo much, why do you even visit this forum?
LOL rotfl that's it! He's run out of gas .. could think of nothing more to say so asking me why I visit here ... that's always been manure's smelly and beaten track. His tantrums don't last for long.
Well .. I visit this forum because in order to know what ignorance is, one has to study it. Not that it's any of your blooming business nor that of your cronies where I visit ..
But when did I ever say I 'hated' anyone? Again, the guilty conscience pops out of the sub-conscious ..
Much to the contrary, I complimented people for cheering me up.
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That remark made me spill my drink
=adley=Ooops! I didn't mean to scare you that much ..
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I see what you are saying about age and everything. but for me when it comes to practising Salaat. I don't want works for me becuase I believe that Allah knows what works. So when i study the Qur'aan i am in the frame of mind to seek out how Allah wants us to observe salaat and not how i want it. Sometimes with human nature we may want 1 Salaat even though Allah told us that we have to observe or do more. I am here to submit to Allah so for me i want to know His way on how I should submit. Thats my pholisphy. Salaam
[
That was very well put, no_shirk ..
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Salaam massive online terrorist
Why are u so worried about Zainab visiting the forum. This forum is for all free-minds. Do u make those statements to other where there is debate/disagreement to or is your comment personal to Zainab?
zainab, if you hate us sooooooooo much, why do you even visit this forum?
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peace
my comment to zainab was based on what she's been posting on this thread. It's one insult after another. A large majority of her posts are about how stupid people at FM are. My question was, why waste your time here, when you get nothing out of it?
anyway, zainab addressed my post, so it's the case is closed.
peace -
peace
my comment to zainab was based on what she's been posting on this thread. It's one insult after another. A large majority of her posts are about how stupid people at FM are. My question was, why waste your time here, when you get nothing out of it?
anyway, zainab addressed my post, so it's the case is closed.
peaceThat's better .. if your poor sporting spirit and insufficient perception makes it difficult for you to cope with my rejoinders (simple as they are, which you refer to as "insults", you might as well 'close' the 'case.' Perhaps now it might be clearer to you why I talk about 'stupidity' out here.
Of course, needless to say .. if I do actually use 'insults,' the "terrors" use it too, and much more. They also use physical threats.
Also, I'll say again, and as many times as I deem proper .. insults are harmless, never a violation of rights or security. But physical threats come in the category of an offence according to law. Defending it only makes matters worse.
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Salaam To The Self Appointed Massive Online Terrorist aka phoenix1
Your observations of Zainab are bias because I can literally quote your comrades in this thread alone and many other threads including the threads that Zainab started where they attacked her, where the tough guys ganged up on her and used words that were not so nice. So your complaint is bias and u also made the same complaint about myself. Sister Zainab is a strong woman and she is in here debating with men and I take my hat off to her for that. She can intellectual debate and exchange the same level of blows that your comrades have dished out to her.
Salaam
peace
my comment to zainab was based on what she's been posting on this thread. It's one insult after another. A large majority of her posts are about how stupid people at FM are. My question was, why waste your time here, when you get nothing out of it?
anyway, zainab addressed my post, so it's the case is closed.
peace -
Salaam.
Zainab is the most intelligent person here on this forum among the sisters. I think that those guys who attack her are only jealous and maybe even intimidated by her wisdom and excellent personality.
I know this is true, because when i was in 4th grade, i remember the two most intelligent girls always had As, best grades, best answers, they were the best students and i was always admiring them but only from the distance. I knew that i couldn't compete with them, so at least i stayed away from them.
Now, i have the Qur'an and i can, Thank Allah Most merciful, approach them and recognise them. Earlier, when i was a sunni and prayed 5 times a day, i only followed the crowd of sunnis and did what they did and kept quiet.
Not anymore. I have my own brain and i'm using it.
Word of advice if you can't compete with Zainab, and you can't, either change the subject, go talk to someone else, forum is big or better, don't talk. Because not talking is better than insulting. Your insults only hurt yourself.Zainab, keep up the good work, sister and stay strong.
May Allah Most Merciful reward you with paradise, sister.Salaam. jedi
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This thread has gone OT since quite some time now. I apologise for not reading it sooner. Please start another thread in this section if one wishes to continue. This will be a fresh start so please keep it clean and on topic. Thanks.
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selam "al-khidr"
the "mathematical structure" of salaat has already been exposed, which proves that it is non-significant.
For verification, visit http//www.quran-islam.org/178.htmlAs Salaamu Alaykum Arnold
In regards to your opinion in terms of my approach my response is found here posted Jan. 6, 2006, where you and I had our first encounter
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5711.30
You may not like what I say but you can?t deny it and that?s the real issue at hand, not personal opinions on styles of approach. I have done extensive research on the ?3 Salaat Theory? and you could not intellectually refute any of the arguments and I think that says a lot. Anybody is welcome to bring forth arguments that is how we learn but Arnold with all your statements (opinions), you as of the present can?t bring forth any? But that does not surprise me because you on the other hand are confused on whether it?s 5 or 3 Salaat and that?s fine I?m not placing judgment there, we are all human. I do not have all the knowledge, I?m just as human as everybody else, but what I do know is that there is 5 Salaat times or periods in the Holy Qur?aan and you cannot intellectually refute any of my arguments. Below is your statement
?But i do need more reference if it is 3 or 5 using an OBJECTIVE mind, which i believe you haven't used.?
In your response Arnold you have presented opinion after opinion or statement after statement, which is again different from FACTS/EVIDENCE. We as humans all have opinions and that?s cool but as long as we understand the difference between the two. I will wait for you to remove or transcend your statement or opinion with FACTS or EVIDENCE to refute my arguments that I stand on or perhaps your research may compliment the 5 Salaat position, which Allah authorized in the Qur?aan and not 3.
You have made a claim that I was not opened minded and that I was bias, etc., etc. and drew conclusions before I done my research. Below is your statement
?You were already biased when you wrote this, as you weren't open minded, but just wanted to 'prove' something you were already convinced of, so you were not objective?
Well again Arnold, we have another tale or opinion from you. I challenge you, provide evidence in my research to back your statement up or opinion up above? I have been exposed to this issue quite sometime and I decided to challenge the notion of the ?3 Salaat Theory? and we all have that right, and I presented my evidence in this forum and many other forums and areas on the internet before I posted on the Progressive Muslim Forum. The evidence of my research exist and it is open for any body to dissect it and pick it apart and refute my arguments, if its possible. But again Arnold at the present all you can introduce is your assumptions/opinions/statements. My arguments stand on the 5 Salaat position. I have received many positive responses by Muslims around the world concerning my research.
You have said this
?As for the mathematical code inside the prayer, this can be refuted already, as there is a whole mechanic inside the Quran already, and how could have people before the discovery of the code have verified the true salaat? Before the code, there wasn't complete blind faith in the Quran as the concistency of the rhyme and the science in it gave enough reference to base the faith in the Quran on?
Arnold you didn?t read my entire research or maybe you must have over looked some aspects of my research. When I proved that there are 5 Salaat times in the Qur?aan, thus my arguments were not diminished to the Divine Mathematical Code of the Qur?aan. I proved that there are 5 Salaat instead of 3 using various forms of evidence, logic, reasoning, I also proved with clear evidence that the Egyptians observed 5 Salaat and this was before Abraham and Muhammad was born. This evidence from the Egyptians is well known and NO hadiyth were written during that time. Salaat was well intact and well established and Allah preserved it. When there was distortion of Salaat Allah went out of His way to address the distortions and correct them. If there was originally 3 Salaat and this became distorted over time then why didn?t Allah address this in the Qur?aan and restore it back to 3 Salaat like how Allah restored Wudu and the tone of voice (in the Qur?aan) when we do Salaat. In my research I have went into far greater detail in this area. I would advice you to concentrate in these two of my sections and you will clearly see that the proponents of the 3 Salaat Theory has no bases or logic in the Qur?aan. This section starts under the category ?Islaam Is A Prescribed Way Of Life? and for the evidence that the Egyptians (Nubians) of antiquity observed 5 Salaat re-examine the section under ?The Nubian Egyptian Empire And Islaam? Abraham in the Qur?aan was performing Salaat. Salaat was intact and well established. I have proven beyond doubt that there are 5 Salaat and not 3 and the mathematical code was sound additional arguments, which was again something that you cannot refute.
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EDIT OF MY EARLIER POST
Check these out http//www.usn2161.net/prayerproofs.html
and http//www.usn2161.net/prayermethod.htmlThe 5 prayers are given mathematically. This does not just include the units but also the words and so on. Although I thought that there are only 3 salaat mentioned in the Quran, I am beginning to think that there are 5. Another interesting fact is that although Jews pray 3x per day in on regular days, they pray 5x on Yom Kippur, which is very interesting.
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Salam alaikoum,
peace to all.
Dear progressive1993
your links to prove there are 5 salats doesn't look to me very scientific let's say. I mean these people are playing with numbers to prove something they decided. It has been proved if you change the order of rakaat you get the same results!!!! Further more they use salat names that are not in Al Quran e.g. asr, maghreb etc..
Question
Don't you think, things regarding SALAT which is an important practice in islam should be clear!
So keeping that in mind, Al Quran clearly mentioned 3 SALAT. I mean why will ALLAH mention 3 clearly and leave 2 a bit vague? Also, the timing is clear, and easy to follow.This is my personnal understanding, seeking the truth but ALLAH knows better.
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Peace, Herbman,
I know the article at quran-islam.org about the switching the number of rakat and still getting mutiples of 19 and so on. I need to check the infos further. I was for a while believing what you are believing right now about 3 salaat being at dawn, sunset and night (check my post at "my arguement for 3 salaat". They are giving good proofs though and RK also said its 5. Furthermore, the Muslims have been doing the 5 salaat ever since. (except some islamilis, etc.)
We need to look for more evidence and grasp the meaning of the verses on the quran a little bit better, such as 1778 - does it refer to noon or sunset? if its noon then there are 5, if not then there are 3.
But remember the mutawator sunna of it being 5. The rakat system (although proven that it can be changed and still have multiples of 19, etc.) is one factor which makes me think there are 5 salaat, since without a set number of rakats, there wouldnt be unity in mosques. (think about it). Maybe the rakats were always 2 (as stated in hadiths) and then changed. NOTE the first 2 or only 2 rakats of Fajr, Maghrib and Isha are recited aloud... maybe this could prove the 3 salaat theory. The maths proves the opposite, though. again, i invite others to discuss this topic more thoruoghly, since it is an important one.
anyways,
peace.Salam alaikoum,
peace to all.
Dear progressive1993
your links to prove there are 5 salats doesn't look to me very scientific let's say. I mean these people are playing with numbers to prove something they decided. It has been proved if you change the order of rakaat you get the same results!!!! Further more they use salat names that are not in Al Quran e.g. asr, maghreb etc..
Question
Don't you think, things regarding SALAT which is an important practice in islam should be clear!
So keeping that in mind, Al Quran clearly mentioned 3 SALAT. I mean why will ALLAH mention 3 clearly and leave 2 a bit vague? Also, the timing is clear, and easy to follow.This is my personnal understanding, seeking the truth but ALLAH knows better.
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Peace,
Salat does not involve bowing and prostration. Salat is the act of incense burning. Please read my article titled "Salat is none other than Incense Burning".
Peace,
K.Vivekanandan
And Zakat is freezing?!
