Translation of `Jinn`
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Peace be upon you,
I am now jumping to the end to discuss the verse 2710
(2710) And throw your stick, so when he saw it , it shakes/moves as if it is a "jinn" he turned away giving his back, and he did not follow/succeed/track "You Moses, do not fear, that I, the messengers do not fear at/by/near Me."
The question is , how did SNAKE get to be an option? All of these metaphors are old symbolisms. The God told us that we should trust in what was sent to us AND those before us. We have to do research to understand this message.
How does energy move? Just like a snake, in a WAVE.
That which you think is solid is really just energy (E=mc2). And when you break down all these physical bodies that appear to be seperate, we can see that ALL is just the VERY SAME ENERGY in different forms. ONENESS.
Emotions are "energy in motion".
So we have the SNAKE in the Garden, which whispers to Adam(intellect). All this ties together. This is a message about HOW WE WORK and we need to know this so we can change our behavior. We are not given a book about boogey men hiding in the shadows and told to blindly believe it.
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Peace be upon you Imram K.
Actually it's only JM that's advocating the 'human leaders' argument ( to my knowledge ) most others believe jinns to be allegorical for the hidden/dark side of man.
The hidden side of BEING, not man. The visable side of BEING is MAN(Insaan), the unseen side is (jinn). The term "dark side" can be misleading. Jinn can and should be used for positivity, just like Solomon shows us. However most of us are slaves to our thoughts/images/emotions.
Are our primal urges innate or result of the choices we make?
I believe in the choices we make. I believe in accountability. And I choose not to blame that on a hidden/evil side.
A metaphor that will help you is to look at a gardner (you) and the garden (Nafs where jinn reside). Yes, we are responsible for managing our "garden" by putting the correct seeds in there and taking time to weed(purify) the garden. We cannot go back and blame the garden for the weeds. Likewise, no one is blaming any "darkside", just taking the veil off this metaphor about mans make-up.
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Peace,
Nabster, let's see what you make of this
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0
Peace arnoldyasin
From a first quick read, are you suggesting we have a split personality?
How about those groups of jinns who were listening to the Quran, accepted it then went to their communities to announce it.
I get what you and Ibn Kathir are saying, and it is true that the word jinn means a few different things in arabic, but when Allah refers to the community of the Jinns, they are entities different from us. Did you know that the word Innsan has also different meanings (and a derivative of the root word is nasia which means forgetful), but when Allah refers to the Inns community He means the Human community.
I think we should stop playing with words here, it is dangerous, let us leave this in the mutashabihaat...
I still do not agree...
Salams
NabsterPeace,
And you judge it after a quick read? Then your opinion doesn't count as you are not really interrested. You just want to hang on to your opinion without investigating other opinions. It doesn't matter that you look at it differently as we are all on a different level, but it does matter the way you do it.
God bless
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Peace be upon you Layth,
I have read the posts in this thread and would just like to comment on the posts who argue that
Jinnare humans or emotions or the such...Did we not read in the Scripture that humans are created from clay/mud while Jinn were created before from flames of fire?
This simple fact leaves no room for these discussions that we & the jinn can be one in the same.
They are an older being, while we are a younger one.
Brother Layth, nothing on the physical realm was created before the idea and image were thought of. For example, before the computer was made , someone had to have the THOUGHT of it and form an IMAGE of it (jinn).
This is the process of life. I strongly recommend all to read this small book called "As a man thinketh"
http//website.lineone.net/~jamesallen1/think.htm
Also, on the subject of translating as
hidden, that does not work or make sence in some verses, while at the same time we are told that Jinn are physical with hearts, eyes, ears, and that they were taken as partners or gods by some humans.We are never told they are physical, that is just a conclusion that was reached, but when we are dreaming (A very big part of human life) we are using the ears and eyes of "jinn".
Jinn are perhaps able to take on human form which explains how humans would worship them or set them-up as partners...It would also explain the issue of us not seeing them (i.e. there true form) while they can see us.
Humans worship lust, greed, etc. Thats the partners thay serve
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Peace be upon you Nabster,
Can I kindly clarify something, the Quran does not speak in metaphors, he tells us true stories that can inspire us and increase in faith. A metaphor can be false. There is nothing false in the Quran. The Mutashabihat are declarations that will become clear when we increase in understanding and these too are truths, but we are unable to understand them yet.
I wanted to make this clear.
May The God increase us in wisdomAre you not aware that the God does not shy away from any similitude? Respectfully, only 7 posts here does not qualify you to inform any of us if we are able to understand what this reading was sent to tell us. ) I leave you with Peace and I hope you will take some time to look at the various discussions here to get caught up.
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Peace Kyle,
WOW! I am waaaay behind. Sorry, this is a response from page 2, but here we go.
Yeah man, get with the program!
Just to be clear, some of the quotes don't fit one explanation, and some don't fit the other, in my opinion of course. So, I'll skip the ones you replied to where the focus was on those who think of jinns as invisible beings.
Re 2710
How does energy move? Just like a snake, in a WAVE.
That which you think is solid is really just energy (E=mc2). And when you break down all these physical bodies that appear to be seperate, we can see that ALL is just the VERY SAME ENERGY in different forms. ONENESS.
The only problem is the fear that Moses felt after seeing whatever it is that he saw. How does that fit into your explanation?
"...ya moosa la takhaf..."
"...O Moses, do not fear..."Do you suppose Moses actually saw a snake, and the story is symbolic of what the snake may represent?
Or, do you feel that what Moses saw can only be best described as a snake, but what he actually saw was something fundamental in the composition of life?Peace,
Tay -
Peace
arnoldyasin I am not hanging on to my own opinion. I believe for a fact that Jinns are real as Humans and Angels are. It is not an opinion, but a fact, because the Quran expresses so. As I believe in The god, even though I cannot see Him.
I found your article too difficult to read. The Quran is simpler to read, and from it I read clearly that both Jinns and Angels are separate entities to us Humans. I came to the Quran very late in my life, and initially started with translations in english and french, but since i am an arabic native speaker, I decided to read it in arabic, the only thing i also read the tafsir of ibn kathir alongside, but when i read the quran on its own i was free to understand it the way Allah meant me to.
This web-site is part of my journey of discovery, and I made a 180 degrees change in a few matters, but some opinions expressed here are not always correct.
Sorry if I seem to have offended you, I did not mean to, you are free to have your opinions, but opinions are different from facts.
Salam
NabsterPeace,
No, you have not offended me. Do what you feel best. But my article is a summary and comparison of the verses about jinn. Everybody is on their own level.
Peace bro
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Peace nabster, and welcome,
You stated
I believe for a fact that Jinns are real as Humans and Angels are. It is not an opinion, but a fact, because the Quran expresses so.
I don't think anyone is disputing whether or not jinns are real. The debate is about the composition of jinn, if you will. Either side of the argument has to extrapolate this composition, since all we know from the Qur'an is that they were made of "fire". And we can see fire, right?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay,
I don't think anyone is disputing whether or not jinns are real. The debate is about the composition of jinn, if you will. Either side of the argument has to extrapolate this composition, since all we know from the Qur'an is that they were made of "fire". And we can see fire, right?
Ever heard of or thought about worshipping of "Fire" or "The Sun" by the pagans in the jahiliya period, thereby the acquisition of "power" and being "hidden"? Just curious.
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Peace Danish,
Sure I've heard of sun/fire worship, but I didn't think about plugging this concept into the jinn mystery. We also have volcano worhippers. Would lava count as "smokeless" fire? I dunno bro. Like I said, in my mind, no one concept fits all the contexts, which leads me to conclude that "jinn" is a blanket term, a description for something incorporeal, but an intrinsic part of man.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
AB, in sura 27 it says that the one with the knowledge about the letter/kitab/writings brought the throne, which was Hudhud. The Hoepoe bird cannot fly over long distances, and it is known that Solomon had an ambassador called Hadud in hebrew. So it was not a bird nor a jinn, but a person who brought the throne. Plus, i see the 'bring it in a blink of an eye' comment as an expression.
Itqi Allah bro
You are promoting non sense and lies, I?m amazed that for every reasonable statement you make, you follow it with tens of non sensible comments, I only speak by the Quran bro and anything else is not addmissable including the hadith despite I?m a hadith a believer
Now what you said above is 100% wrong and is a total manipulation to Allah words and I warn you bro that this is a sin that will incur grevious punishment if you don?t repent from promting conjectures to mislead many na?ve brothers and sisters
If you say ignorant comments like the above bro then trust me the Quran will expose you fair and square, now here is the Quran telling us that the Hudhud is a bird
?And he sought among the birds and said How is it that I see not the Hudhud, or is it among the absent??
(20)
-> See bro, , , ?And he sought among the birds, what can I say bro, the word is , ?Al Tair?, do you know what that is in Arabic?, well it means ?The Birds?, then Soloman said after he sought among THE BIRDS, ?and said How is it that I see not the Hudhud, or is it among the absent?? , therefore Solomon didn?t find the Hudhud within THE BIRDS
Let me put it to you in a mathematical manner
- Solomon was checking on THE BIRDS
- Then he said, where is the Hudhud?
From 1 & 2 we can conclude that the Hudhud is A BIRD
Itqi Allah bro
Salam
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Peace be upon you brother Tay,
IF1
How does energy move? Just like a snake, in a WAVE.That which you think is solid is really just energy (E=mc2). And when you break down all these physical bodies that appear to be seperate, we can see that ALL is just the VERY SAME ENERGY in different forms. ONENESS.
Tay
The only problem is the fear that Moses felt after seeing whatever it is that he saw. How does that fit into your explanation?"...ya moosa la takhaf..."
"...O Moses, do not fear..."Do you suppose Moses actually saw a snake, and the story is symbolic of what the snake may represent?
Or, do you feel that what Moses saw can only be best described as a snake, but what he actually saw was something fundamental in the composition of life?Lets really get into this story.
Musa saw a fire burning, an energy source. It is energy that allows things to happen, nothing can happen without energy. It is also a symbol of light which brings clarity. So Musa went to this energy source, which at this point was "far off" from Musas viewpoint. He left his family behind! (meaning he let go of all tradition/preconcieved ideas, just like Mariam when she concieved the Will(Isa)).
(2010) When he saw a fire, so he said to his family "Wait/remain/stay, that I , I perceived/saw a fire, maybe/perhaps I come to you from it with a fire's flame/torch, or I find on (at) the fire guidance."
When Musa got to this "Divine Energy" he was called
(2012) O Musa, Surely I am your Lord, so take off your two shoes , that you are at the sacred valley wrapped within.
Now we understand that Musa's journey was not a physical journey ..."remove your shoes"....it is a spiritual one, into the "subconscious" or "Nafs". It is what the ancients called the "underworld" or what they call in the movies "the dark side" or "Matrix".
This is the part of "being" that possess POWER. This is the part that CARRIES THINGS OUT. It is likened to a garden.
Understand that YOU are consciousness. That is what you are. WILLING is what you do. Thats all. There is no POWER in percieving and willing. FOr example, you WILL to stop smoking, but your SPIRIT(nafs) keeps carrying out smoking. We can liken that to planting seeds in the winter, no matter what you do, the garden will not BRING FORTH fruit that you WILL.
So while YOU are consciousness, there is another part of being that "YOU" were given and that is the NAFS(Spirit). That is the ENERGY/MATTER part of being. (Energy and matter are the same thing). Everything that happens in your life is brought about by the HIDDEN ENERGIES within the spirit(nafs). The Good news is that these energies were given to us to be our servants, the bad news is no one remembers this, so they are given good and bad in life haphazardly. They are like a man in a flood, tossed back and forth.
Lets get back to the story of Musa.
(2017) And what (is) that at your right O Moses?
(201 He said "It is my stick, I lean on/support myself on it, and I hit/move/shake with it on my sheep and goats, and for me in it others needs/purposes."
The stick represents the philosophy of Musa. His crystalized group of conditionings that have become habit for him and run his life. His web of beliefs and ideas that govern his thinking. He "RELIES" on it. That is his "FOUNDATION", and he leads others by his philosophy (weather correct or wrong).
(2019) He said "Throw it away, you Moses."
He told Musa to get rid of that "web of beliefs", that philosophy.
(2020) So he threw it away, so then it is (a) quick moving snake/alive.
I recall learning that the word for snake is not there, but it just means something like "came alive", but weather "snake" or "came alive", it still deals with the energetic/wavelike substance of Musa beliefs, Meaning that our philosophies and beliefs are a bunch of illusions and baseless ideas we recieve have reinforced through emotional nature(snake). When we become emotional, we become receptive to ideas. That is the basis of Baptist church sermons as well as African drum rituals, etc. Notice that the ancient khamitans (egyptians) wore the upright serpent on thier foreheads. They understood this well. When the seeds are planted and watered, it is the SUN that ultimately makes it grow. The SOLAR FORCE is what we call "Ruh Ul Qudus". It is not to be worshipped, only understood.
But since we were never taught about the Divine Energy" (ruh ul qudus), we take in all kinds of foolish seeds into our gardens and get fruits we dont desire.
Getting back to Musa, God restored Musa's belief system back to the ORIGINAL
(2021) He said "Take it and do not fear, We will return it (to) its form , the first/beginning."
This does not mean back to a stick from a snake, it means he is taking Musa belief system and PURIFYING IT (fire) to reveal its original form. This is further clarified by Musa hand coming out white "purified/clean".
The original philosophy, the God's Deen, swallows up any other philosophy because it is based on objective LAW, can be proven.
The ruh ul qudus, is the solar force, the Life force. Little do we know, so we must seek knowledge of it. I have done so. It comes to us in two modalities, a unifying mode (malaika) and a seperating mode (shayteen), but both modalities are HIDDEN(jinn).
I will speak more on this later, but just wanted to show that after Musa's philosophy was purified, he was able to move waters and make waters gush from rocks (all symbolisms of course).
I almost forgot the question ;D Isnt it scary when the beliefs that you base your life on are torn from under you? Isnt that what causes all the animosity from people who come here and cant handle the proofs they find? The FEAR?
I bear witness that it is scary, at first. I myself was sitting in the masjid I used to attend shaking and scared I was goig to go to some eternal hell fire and burn. Isnt it scary, at first, to think about what your frineds and family will think when you have to "change your Qibla"?
Just give it some thought.
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Peace,
AB, in sura 27 it says that the one with the knowledge about the letter/kitab/writings brought the throne, which was Hudhud. The Hoepoe bird cannot fly over long distances, and it is known that Solomon had an ambassador called Hadud in hebrew. So it was not a bird nor a jinn, but a person who brought the throne. Plus, i see the 'bring it in a blink of an eye' comment as an expression.
Itqi Allah bro
You are promoting non sense and lies, I?m amazed that for every reasonable statement you make, you follow it with tens of non sensible comments, I only speak by the Quran bro and anything else is not addmissable including the hadith despite I?m a hadith a believer
Now what you said above is 100% wrong and is a total manipulation to Allah words and I warn you bro that this is a sin that will incur grevious punishment if you don?t repent from promting conjectures to mislead many na?ve brothers and sisters
If you say ignorant comments like the above bro then trust me the Quran will expose you fair and square, now here is the Quran telling us that the Hudhud is a bird
?And he sought among the birds and said How is it that I see not the Hudhud, or is it among the absent??
(20)
-> See bro, , , ?And he sought among the birds, what can I say bro, the word is , ?Al Tair?, do you know what that is in Arabic?, well it means ?The Birds?, then Soloman said after he sought among THE BIRDS, ?and said How is it that I see not the Hudhud, or is it among the absent?? , therefore Solomon didn?t find the Hudhud within THE BIRDS
Let me put it to you in a mathematical manner
- Solomon was checking on THE BIRDS
- Then he said, where is the Hudhud?
From 1 & 2 we can conclude that the Hudhud is A BIRD
Itqi Allah bro
Salam
Peace AB,
The story of the ants and the bird is simple if people would have looked a bit further. Since words have more then one meaning or background it is interesting what people choose sometimes, and have a distorted idea of a meaning. The arabic naml, means ants, BUT was also the name of a tribe in Syria, even ibn Kathir who is so wrong on 80% of his explanations on the Quran, noted this fact. In his tafseer, he identifies, namlat, the lady of Naml, as belonging to the tribe of Banu Shisan. So it is the tribe that was scared of Solomon's army, which is more logical. Also on the story of the 'bird' that comes in the verses after that, the arabic word hud-hud, means hoopoe, BUT again was also the name of a South Yemen tribe, and men were often named after their tribes as well as birds. Plus the fact that the bird Hoopoe is not build for long flights. Tair is commonly used for birds, but is also applied to winged beings, yet tayyar means fleet-flooted horse, and at-tairan is metaphorically used for marching to jihad. When Solomon says that they had been taught the language of tair, he uses the word mantiq which is used for HUMAN speech, and man alone of all created beings is called haivani-natiq, speaking animal, the language of birds is called saut. The intention behind the use of tair, as of jinn cannot be disregarded. The Tair were a conquered tribe or race and David and Solomon had knowledge of their language. Similarly jinns applies here to the nomadic tribes many of whom were recruited by the king of Tyre for Solomon, see the Bible, chapter Kings 1,5. So they were called not seen ones, because they came from a land and people that were not seen normally. So it refers to where they come from, not the direct situation of if they were seen or not seen at that moment by Solomon and his people. And by thus refers to foreigner/stranger. So their country and people are jinn for Solomon and his people, making them called jinns. Hud-hud here is significant because it is known in old records that it was the name of a prince of Midian in the days of Solomon, and some records say he was even the brother of the queen of Sheba. In the Bible also there are references of several people carrying this name and are connected with Solomon.(see the name Hadud). It was by the hand of Hud-hud that brought the letter(kitab=writing to Sheba, and he was the one who brought the throne to Solomon.
You can agree or disagree AB, but i'm researching the Quran which is my duty. If you condemn my conclusions, then that is your opinion. But the use of the word mantiq=human speech cannot be dismissed. I myself also get only information from the Quran alone. But sometimes words have more backgrounds, so it is important to investigate. I do not dismiss all hadith, but i'm carefull how to approach, just as i'm carefull how to approach any other source of history.
As the Quran shows the true history, it is the furqan that purifies traditional approaches. God can make us do anything of course, but throughout the Quran He says He will not brake His laws, so i'll always approach the stories with that background.
Peace -
Peace AB,
Salam bro
The story of the ants and the bird is simple if people would have looked a bit further. Since words have more then one meaning or background it is interesting what people choose sometimes, and have a distorted idea of a meaning. The arabic naml, means ants, BUT was also the name of a tribe in Syria,
Come on bro, I?m not discussing the Naml in here, I?m discussing the birds
even ibn Kathir who is so wrong on 80% of his explanations on the Quran, noted this fact. In his tafseer,
so I guess that was from the 20% he was right under your estimation?
he identifies, namlat, the lady of Naml, as belonging to the tribe of Banu Shisan. So it is the tribe that was scared of Solomon's army, which is more logical.
irrelevant bro, we are discussing the birds
Also on the story of the 'bird' that comes in the verses after that, the arabic word hud-hud, means hoopoe,
Bro forgot what Hudhud means, did you see me picking on it or even used the English meaning?, I used it as is ?Hudhud? I don?t care if that Hudhud is a pigeon, an eagle or a hoopoe
What I care about is this, whatever the Hudhud is, it is 100% a bird according to 2720
Try to twist it and mention other creatures like the naml, the Hudhud is still a bird according to 2720
BUT again was also the name of a South Yemen tribe, and men were often named after their tribes as well as birds
Or really?, and this tribe existed during Solomon time?, far fetched bro, any verses from the Quran to support your allegations?
Plus the fact that the bird Hoopoe is not build for long flights.
Far out bro, well I guess the Hudhud kept resting every few miles, or what do you think?
Tair is commonly used for birds, but is also applied to winged beings,
Haha, that was funny bro
I guess birds = winged beings
yet tayyar means fleet-flooted horse,
oh yeh, I guess because horses can fly?
and at-tairan is metaphorically used for marching to jihad.
LOL, never heard of it bro
When Solomon says that they had been taught the language of tair, he uses the word mantiq which is used for HUMAN speech,
What was that bro?
and man alone of all created beings is called haivani-natiq, speaking animal, the language of birds is called saut.
LOL. Sorry bro that was really funny and I just have nothing to say but laugh
The intention behind the use of tair, as of jinn cannot be disregarded. The Tair were a conquered tribe or race and David and Solomon had knowledge of their language. Similarly jinns applies here to the nomadic tribes many of whom were recruited by the king of Tyre for Solomon, see the Bible, chapter Kings 1,5. So they were called not seen ones, because they came from a land and people that were not seen normally. So it refers to where they come from, not the direct situation of if they were seen or not seen at that moment by Solomon and his people. And by thus refers to foreigner/stranger. So their country and people are jinn for Solomon and his people, making them called jinns. Hud-hud here is significant because it is known in old records that it was the name of a prince of Midian in the days of Solomon, and some records say he was even the brother of the queen of Sheba. In the Bible also there are references of several people carrying this name and are connected with Solomon.(see the name Hadud). It was by the hand of Hud-hud that brought the letter(kitab=writing to Sheba, and he was the one who brought the throne to Solomon.
Can?t waste more time for this paragraph bro, sorry
You can agree or disagree AB,
The option to agree with your non sense is out of the question
I only have one option to chose from which is to disagree with your non sense regarding 2720
but i'm researching the Quran which is my duty.
well, one of your duties is not to spread unfounded, non sensible conjectures regarding the Arabic Quran, and ironically Arabic is not your language, that say it all
If you condemn my conclusions,Come on, it is the Quran who is condemning your cojectures that you associate to Allah words
then that is your opinion.
well I call it, this is my jihad
But the use of the word mantiq=human speech cannot be dismissed. I myself also get only information from the Quran alone. But sometimes words have more backgrounds, so it is important to investigate. I do not dismiss all hadith, but i'm carefull how to approach, just as i'm carefull how to approach any other source of history.
Show us the verses you talk about, let the Quran speak, so far in this comment you were the only one talking
As the Quran shows the true history, it is the furqan that purifies traditional approaches.
What was that?, oh yeh an emotional comment, pass on that towel Deen so your father wipes his tears
God can make us do anything of course, but throughout the Quran He says He will not brake His laws, so i'll always approach the stories with that background.
Peacewhat laws that He can?t break exactly?
Salam
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... And he sought among the birds, what can I say bro, the word is ... Al Tair, do you know what that is in Arabic?, well it means The Birds, then Soloman said after he sought among THE BIRDS, and said How is it that I see not the Hudhud, or is it among the absent? , therefore Solomon didnt find the Hudhud within THE BIRDS
Ahmed,
"Al-Tair" is a word which is well known as a multiple meaning word. In the example verse that you give you entirely ignore the context and therefore pluck the wrong meaning for the word. In the end your translation becomes a nonsense one where Solomon is speaking to non-lingual animals!
The word 'tair' can mean variously a bird, a cavalry, swift animals, a company of men, quick witted person, a nation.
Now in the context of the verse and knowing from 3831 that Solomon owned and kept horses and had at his disposal an army; it stands to reason that the "al-tair" being mentioned in 2720 is actually a cavalry of men - ie. soldiers who fought on horseback.
2720 He inspected the cavalry, and noted "Why do I not see Al-Hudhud? Why is he missing?
He inspects his horsemen and finds one of them; an important one missing.
You may ask about 2716...
2716 Solomon was David's heir. He said, "O people, we have been endowed with understanding the speech of the cavalrymen, and all kinds of things have been bestowed upon us. This is indeed a real blessing."
Wawaritha sulaymanu dawooda waqala ya ayyuha alnnasu AAullimna mantiqa alttayri waooteena min kulli shay-in inna hatha lahuwa alfadlu almubeenu
We don't know whether the cavalry was of the same race or nation as Solomon but he obviously knows the language of these men. It's likely that he also knows military language and terminology. The jargon and language of military men is necessary for a leader of soldiers.
So again, the whole issue can be demystified without resorting to nonsense interpretations which call for a suspension of logic and reality which the Arab mind seems very eager and willing to do. Gives a new meaning to bird-brained
Regards.
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Peace,
AB, your answers shows you cannot answer them. Mantiq is only used with human speech.This directly refers that the Tair are humans, not birds. And that HudHud(which means Hoepoe) cannot be a bird, as Solomon wasn't thaught saut=language of birds, but he was thaught the mantiq=humanspeech of the Tair=which then can only be humans. 1+1=2....
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Peace,
Nabster you say this
The fact of the matter, Allah does break the Laws of Nature occasionally when He wants to make a point to His faithful Servants. As for the disbelievers, Sign or no Sign, they will not believe.While God says this
Allah does all things according to His Laws (340,199) You will never find Allah?s Laws changing or deviating (634, 6116, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3338, 3362, 3543, 4085, 4823)Your words is not what God says Himself...
And about Jesus, please read this
The healings of Jesus are meant metaphorically. Like the words used in 349, the word is abras, one suffering from lukoderma, a diseas that discolours the skin, and not judham, leprosy. Propably under evangelical influences did it got confused with leprosy. Metaphorically, however, it means, to have ones misfortune added to another. Ibn Faris says that al-biras means, barren portions of the desert, whence the metaphorical meaning of misfortune, so Jesus cured misfortunes by teaching people the truth. The Quran compares moral crimes to diseases, and calls those guilty of them, deaf, dumb and blind, as in 218 and diseased of the heart in 210 and even dead as in 2780, that is why the scripture, which is the Truth, is called a healing in 4144. It is again, showen that people distorte the metaphorical meanings, and don't take the Quran as its guide how the read things. That Jesus his healings were taken literally is of course through evangelical influences. The only Gospel that is in the so-calles Gospels, are Jesus his words, not his deeds, and by thus are the recordings not to be used for understanding and explaining the Quran, but the Quran must be used to explain the Gospel and Jesus's history. When using cross-reference(tasreef), the Quran explains itself. Only the gullible mind will resort to unlogical answers as the human is addicted to fantasies. God will not change His laws....Sorry for the off-topic....
As for the mantiq, check the ancient dictionaries. Plus, then you say Solomon was thaught the logic?(mantiq) of the Tair?
Peace
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peace,
I believe your approach is taking things out of context. But everybody is on their own level. You think signs are miracles, but there are more things that can be taken as signs. I have seen signs in my life, and they didn't went against the laws of nature, but for sure they were signs. As for the arabic. You cannot use modern arabic for this discussion. The Quran is given in the Quraish dialect. Modern arabic is distorted through herbrew, persian and araimic and old forced meanings. So it cannot be used in this discussion. Please get some ancient dictionaries before you mix up more meanings...