Translation of `Jinn`
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Peace Nabster, all,
You stated
May God leads us away from any dangerous nonsense...
I find it fascinating that folks such as yourself can label these understandings as dangerous nonsense and yet uphold the understanding that invisible creatures are roaming the Earth.
Further, you belittle the idea of "God being in and part of everything", yet offer no explanation to "And to God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God?s presence."
Is that a metaphor?
5016 And We have created man and We know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein.
How about that one? Is it a metaphor or is God literally closer to us than the jugular vein? If it's a metaphor, then how do you explain it, and what gave you the authority to see it as a metaphor? If not, then God is certainly in and part of everything, right?
Peace,
Tay -
peace tay
then God is certainly in and part of everything, right?
this metaphor is about God's omnipresence not that he's necessarily in and part of everything (could be, couldn't be) its not my place to assume that w/o 100% knowledge (no shot directed at you dear brother) Of course i can be very wrong
God bless
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peace
Our soul is what connects us to God. Our soul is eternal, it never dies, it just moves on.
If you look at it, nothing dies. Everything is energy and energy never dies, it just changes from one form to another.
There is nothing lunatic and damaging about that. It's fact. -
Peace Nabster,
You stated,
So when a man dies part of God dies with him!
No. As Phoenix stated, nothing really dies. The energy that we call the human body decays and re-manifests. But the animating energy of that human body leaves the confines of the material, "and to God is it's return".
I thought this was settled by the Quran once and for all when Allah admonished the Christians about the trinity belief!
Trinity and unity are not the same.
We and all the Universes are but projections of Allah's will.
Then where is Allah? How can Allah be closer than the jugular vein, yet not be within? Isn't the jugular vein in the middle of the throat? Whether you see this symbolically or literally, the picture is still the same.
How can a Creator be a part of His creature, it does not make sense even logically
The universe coming from nothing does not make sense logically. Yet here we are. I am not a slave to logic, despite your ramblings. But the universe was created with a logical construct that exists within the fabric of the divine energy. We were given a logical mind to understand the logical constructs, and a spiritual compass to grasp what transcends logic. Logically, the big bang was the beginning of the end of the last big bang, ad infinitum. Spiritually, this is it.
Omnipresent Present everywhere simultaneously.
Omniscient One having total knowledge.
Omnipotent Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerfulNow tell me, Nabster, how can God hold these attributes if God is not everywhere? Please save your outrage and present an argument.
By the way I am a symbolist and a literalist
Excellent.
either taken to their extremes can be at best nonsensical and at worst lunacy and very damaging.
I agree.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
Nabster, read my article on this
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5371.msg79533#msg79533
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Peace,
Yes, in 2115 He clearly says He is everywhere. Only the All is unimaginable, the infinite All, to give God a position, place or form and so on is biblical nonsense.....God is not out there somewhere......God is everywhere, closer then our jugular vein, as everything is made out of Him, none can escape Him...
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Dudes you are using up words made up by humans using logic made up by humans basing it on experience felt by humans, and Allah tells you He is different from everything you ever could imagine...
See bro, this is what Iblis is doing with them, he is fooling them to say on Allah what they don't know, this is Haram bro, and consequently it is considered a crime by Allah, here it is bro so no one say I made something Haram while it is not
Say My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed, and sin and rebellion without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know.
(33)
Let?s analyse this crystal clear verse just in case it is hard for some
-> The verse starts by telling Mohammad to Say ? Say My Lord has only prohibited?, clearly the word used ?Harram?, i.e. ? prohibited ?, now here is what is Haram as read from this crystal clear verse
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? ?, ? indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed?
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? ?, ? and sin?
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? ?, ? and rebellion without justice?
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? ?, ? and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority?
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? ?, ? and that you say against Allah what you do not know.?
Now please tell me bro, how bloody plain is that?, come on, they bloody claim to have understood the Quran, hmmm, why they don?t understand the above then?, I can?t believe this bro, this is sort of they are trying hard to look smart, ok guys before you try to look smart here it is again, what Allah said that is HARAM from 733
- ? ?, ? and that you say against Allah what you do not know.?
Good night bro
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Peace,
- To God belong the East and the West. Wherever you turn the face/presence of God is everywhere All-pervading is He and all-knowing.
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God is everywhere, closer then our jugular vein,
Cool, that is what Allah said in the Quran so you have added nothing new and I appluade you for that
as everything is made out of Him,
Now I have a problem, did Allah say that about Himself?,
I think that He only said that He blowed into the humans from Rohihi, I never read that He did the same with everything, but if He did, would that mean that everything is made out of Him?, or just blowed into them out of Him?, i.e. they existed as deads before the blow was executed, don't you agree?, now we have a serious problem
if you are baseing your statement that everything is made out of Him on the blow, well how they were made out then before the blow?
but if you mean that everything is made BY Him, i would have agreed with you because this is what Allah said, so we have added nothing new
none can escape Him...
Cool, He said that about Himslef
now may i ask you, why you are saying things against Allah that you don't know? 733
Cheers
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Read 2115 again.............
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Peace,
Nabster, you come with a weird story about me not liking the biblical description and what else, and you say i cannot say the things i say on God. If you read my article which i doubt you did, i clearly say you cannot describe God, as God is beyond grasp. And if i made the wrong assumption, then i take it back. But next time don't 'analysis'....this is not meant in a angry way, funny that you took it like that...
Peace bro
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Peace All,
Nabster, you stated
you are using up words made up by humans using logic made up by humans basing it on experience felt by humans, and Allah tells you He is different from everything you ever could imagine...
then Ahmed said
this is what Iblis is doing with them, he is fooling them to say on Allah what they don't know, this is Haram
Now when Arnold clarified for you by quoting 2115, he showed you that these are not man-made concepts but directly from the Qur'an
- To God belong the East and the West. Wherever you turn the face/presence of God is everywhere All-pervading is He and all-knowing.
Ahmed's reply?
that is what Allah said in the Quran so you have added nothing new and I appluade you for that
hypno
2115 clearly says God is everywhere, all-pervading, and you guys agree. We all agree. So what's the problem?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
Yes, nabster i understand you. I have my reasons to see what i see, just as you. It doesn't matter if you believe sjeitan to be the evil side of man or a real entity, both sides are warned with the same words, and both want the same results from the Quran, to have paradise on earth and in the next life, the small difference will not disturb that same goal. The beauty of the Quran is that it inspires all people of all levels and backgrounds...
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Peace Bro
And of course you know that there are serious scientific studies in the paranormal which try to account for and find out about strange phenomena, including what they call ghosts, and telepathy, telekinesis, fire-starting etc (btw i do not believe in ghosts, i think they are jinns)...
There are many agencies who have tried to look into these matters to see if they can get advantages for themselves, witness psychics like Uri Geller who made millions finding oil deposits for oil companies...
Salam
NabsterPeace,
I have studied higher physics and now also psychology together with theology. Most 'sightings' are subconciousness powers that are 'thrown out, like poltergeists are for 90% connected with adolesences which is a strange connection as almost all were youngsters with a lot of anger. Quantum physics show that we have more powers then we know, al though it has limits, but our mind really can affect objects, so a lot are believing it are the youngsters who subconciously are moving the objects. Next to that, most ghost-sightings are just electro-magnetic fields which influence the mind, and people think they see things. Also things as shadows and rays of energy can be seen as 'beings' while it is just the brain who is trying to interpretate what it sees. Do you know the 'what do you see in these inkblots'?
Telepathy has to do with Quantum physics, as well people as uri geller who are just more sensetive for the Quantum field level and can 'read' information out of it, while they themselves don't even know how. Then you have just the none proven fables, which are still spread on earth, and people just want to believe those. To understand more on what you above said, please read my article so you understand better
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5417.0
There ar eno miracles or 'entities', just misunderstood science and psychology of the human mind. The biggest fooler is your own mind....
Peace bro...
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As always thank you Ahmed for the evidence which is plain and clear. I will never in my wildest dreams try and describe Allah, I cannot...
or trying to know why He did whatever, unless He told us Himself why
Salam bro
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Peace,
I don't understand your post, as you say exactly what i say. The discoveries of those famous scientists showed that there were no miracles, and that every step can be explained true normal gained knowledge. So in the future things will be discovered which are now thought to be impossible; so then it are no miracles, yes? It is just misunderstood or unknown science, and psychology of the human mind making a twist.
What does this has to do with inspiration? creativity? And what is the Creator warning me about what i don't believe? There is not one thing in the Quran i don't believe, the only thing is that YOU and ME approach things differently. So it is not that i don't believe God, no no, that is not the case, i don't use YOUR approach, that is the situation here. So please don't take your 'warnings' too far, as this is your truth, not mine.
Inspirations and creativity comes from dreams, observations and hard long thinking, not from believing in 'miracles' or superstition. Creativity and spirituality comes from within.
You say in your earlier post how science proves a lot of things, but you ignore one side of science which shows that these things are mostly human made things, not 'miracles' or 'ghosts'.
I don't pick and choose from what i accept from science, and i can only see what my knowledge and insight allows me, as do you. Let's accept we see things differently and keep the peace...
Peace bro
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Read 2115 again.............
Sure bro let?s read it again
To God belong the East and the West. Wherever you turn the face/presence of God is everywhere All-pervading is He and all-knowing.
(115)
-> Please bro, when faced with a tough argument (733), I ask you not to confuse the subject we have in hand
-> 2115 is telling us that Allah everywhere which I agreed on, HOWEVER, DOES IT TELL US THAT EVERYTHING IS MADE OUT OF ALLAH?
Of course it does NOT, this is my problem with you that you submitted to Iblis and he convinced you to say things on Allah that you don?t know
Now I ask you
- Does the Quran tell us that everything is made out of Allah?
- Does The Quran tell us the humans are part of Allah?
Well, I never see any of the above, therefore we can?t say that we are part of Allah, this is actually a human concept, Ahl Al Kitab were very good at that concept, they made Jesus part of Allah by saying Jesus is the son of god, so it seems you are really influenced by their human concept, well a father and a son are parts of each other physically and spiritually, let?s see how Ahl Al Kitab said that and how Allah responded to them
And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.
(1
-> Here you have it, similar to what you say that we are parts of Allah, ? And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of Allah?, this is not about Jesus bro, it is about humans, like what you say , now Allah asked the Jews and Christians a serious question, that question must be asked to you as well ? Why does He then chastise you for your faults??
-> This is very serious conflict bro, so if we are part of Allah ?made out of Him?, how come He chastises us for our faults?, well it has to be asked this way ?how come He chastises parts of Himself for the faults committed by parts of Him??, exactly like the Christian flawed concept, How come He let the humans chastise His son?
-> Now if you look again in this verse you will see the answer to that serious question which is the denial that we are part of Him rather humans that are made BY HIM, ? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created,?, as well telling us that because we are created ?MADE BY HIM?, He is in total control over us, i.e. ? He pleases and chastises whom He pleases?, see, He is not going to chastises parts of Him
-> So please bro stop accusing others of being attached to the Biblical concept of Allah while the fact of the matter you are the one who is a clear cut Biblical follower trying hard to figure what Allah is or what He looks like or where He sits exactly as they did when they said that Allah created humans similar to His image, well the Quran is telling us that there is nothing like Allah therefore a true believer ?NOT A BIBLICAL FOLLOWER LIKE YOU? will never try to think what Allah is and if the thoughts come in then it should be stopped because we will never grasp what Allah is
The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing like a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
(11)
-> See, ? nothing like a likeness of Him?, so what you say about Him that He never said must fall under 733 and surely this is Haram by you
Salam bro
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peace Ahmed,
so what does it mean that "God is closer to us than our jugular vein?"
what does that mean to you?Also, you are not understanding that everything is the SAME. There is no difference among things. We are the ones that make them different. Everything is ENERGY. So if God is everywhere, where is God?
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And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.
(1
-> Here you have it, similar to what you say that we are parts of Allah, ? And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of Allah?, this is not about Jesus bro, it is about humans, like what you say , now Allah asked the Jews and Christians a serious question, that question must be asked to you as well ? Why does He then chastise you for your faults??
Again you take this beautifully out of context. What has beings 'sons' to do with being part of the All? If you would have understood Jewish and Christian theology, which you don't, and which God points too. Is that certain Jews and Christians use this term to show that they believe they are the chosen ones of God, if you look at the second part of the sentence, this is clearly shown, with 'why then(if you are the chosen ones) does He punish you?' And refers to that they are created just like every other human on earth, and they are not any more special. They claimed the only right of being special in God's eyes, which God says is nonsense. This verse has nothing to do with what you say here, even so much, i even didn't expect this from you to take a verse so much out of context. Iblis has got you too it seems.....
Because did i ever claim that He will not punish me? That i'm not created? You don't understand a molecule of what i mean with being created in Him. So you come up with these nonsensical things. My being still has to be created to be here. My conciousness was designed. I don't explain the buildingblocks. I don't explain God. I show that we cannot grasp Him, but i also show throught the Quran He is not out there somewhere. He encompasses all. I never defined Him.
The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing like a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
(11)
-> See, ? nothing like a likeness of Him?, so what you say about Him that He never said must fall under 733 and surely this is Haram by you
Look clearly at the verse again. NOTHING like a likeness of Him. So this means no form, no position, no nothing. What do you have left? The All! God is the All, as nothing is the All. There can only be one everything, all creation and beyond that, infinite, unlimited. Everpresent, All-pervading. Omniscient. Do i describe Him here with these words? No, doesn't even come close. Why? Because what does infinite say? Does it 'describe' infinite? No, it doesn't, it points into a direction. To understand a definition, you have to grasp it to define it. Can you or me, our little brains grasp infinity? No they can't. We can only point to a direction. Infinite is something never-ending and never-beginning.
The words i use don't describe Him, they don't even come close. They only point a direction, just like 'most mercifull' only points into a direction. You can experience infinity, you can travel an infinite road, but can you describe it? No. The same with God. That you don't get 'how i think can be seen by the way you used the verse above to defend your position. God is not energy or anything we can understand, but i do know He is everywhere i look 2115, and this means also when i look at the substances of which i'm made off. He says EVERYWHERE, unlimited, nothing to be compared. You don't understand me. So please keep your judgements to yourself.
Peace
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peace Ahmed,
so what does it mean that "God is closer to us than our jugular vein?"
what does that mean to you?Also, you are not understanding that everything is the SAME. There is no difference among things. We are the ones that make them different. Everything is ENERGY. So if God is everywhere, where is God?
Run away!