Translation of `Jinn`
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I need ed a laugh
Thanks brother truth
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I need ed a laugh
Thanks brother truth
4911 O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor let some women laugh at others It may be that the (latter are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.
Peace.
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peace tay
So, here, I'm not saying that it means "hidden side of man". I'm saying it could mean "hidden", and we must look at the context to understand what "hidden" entity/energy is being described.
Understood.
Precisely, which is why one definition does not fit all the contexts.
I agree. Tell me which definitions you would use, if you don't mind.
Why would He tell us that men worshipped them, when we have no evidence of these creatures? No names, no bones. Is God a trickster?
So just because we have no 'evidence' means they don't exist? And no... not to me.
Tell me, how does believing in an invisible creature help you understand?
I didnt mean this, I meant generally. At any rate, you are right it doesn't matter.
Unfortunately, purpose and outcome are 2 different things. Here we are, confused. Perhaps confusion was the purpose.
Yes they are.... Why would confusion be the purpose though?
And are you going by Truth's view of jinns? And/Or what is your view of jinns?
Peace.
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peace
To those who are propoenents of the jinns is our soul/part of our soul
Are we born perfect? And this jinn leads us to the wrong path?
Why will we and the jinns be punished?
Who are the companions mentioned in 4125? They are ONLY assigned to rejecters.
Explain to this how is this possible when reading 4629.
Explain to me chapter 114 with this view?
Explain to me Solomon's story in 3412-14
Thanks
God bless
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Why will we and the jinns be punished?
224 If you cannot do this - and you can never do this - then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.
Fa-in lam tafAAaloo walan tafAAaloo faittaqoo alnnara allatee waqooduha alnnasu waalhijaratu oAAiddat lilkafireenaAre rocks "punished" also?
Is a rock a type of being also?
The assumptions and preconceived ideas that people have are preventing their minds from understanding these simple things.
Who are the companions mentioned in 4125? They are ONLY assigned to rejecters.
Explain to this how is this possible when reading 4629.
The companions are clarified in 4336-37. It is clear from this that these are not some mythical beings but rather human companions who exhort to evil.
4336 Anyone who disregards the message of the Most Gracious, we appoint a devil to be his constant companion.
Waman yaAAshu AAan thikri alrrahmani nuqayyid lahu shaytanan fahuwa lahu qareenun4337 Such companions will divert them from the path, yet make them believe that they are guided.
Wa-innahum layasuddoonahum AAani alssabeeli wayahsaboona annahum muhtadoonaThe other instances are also explainable under the not one meaning for all instances understanding. The "jinn" of the Solomon story and chapter 72 etc. who listened to the prophet and the reading are obviously tribes that went under the name of "jinn".
Regards.
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peace truth
Are rocks "punished" also?
Is a rock a type of being also?
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The descriptions of hell are ALLEGORICAL. (I am referring to hell not WHO is going to hell.)
The companions are clarified in 4336-37. It is clear from this that these are not some mythical beings but rather human companions who exhort to evil.
Okay the rejecters have human companions who exhort to evil. Another words believers/submitters don't have any human companions who try to exhort them to do evil?
The assumptions and preconceived ideas that people have are preventing their minds from understanding these simple things
No need to be arrogant. You assume that I have preconceived ideas. When I don't. I am into consuming all the information and decide what's best.
Peace be with you
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Peace Imran,
Tell me which definitions you would use, if you don't mind.
I don't mind, but I don't have a solid answer. Jinn and salat are 2 concepts that I cannot commit on until it makes perfect sense to me. So, for the sake of progress, I'm chipping away at what these concepts are not.
So just because we have no 'evidence' means they don't exist? And no... not to me.
That wasn't my intention. If you recall, I started my thoughts with, "In the same tone,...". What I was doing was following your logic. You said, "Why wouldn't God just tell us clearly that these jinns are our hidden sides or our souls. Is God shy? Is he afraid?" And I followed with, "Why would He tell us that men worshipped them, when we have no evidence of these creatures? No names, no bones. Is God a trickster?"
What I'm demonstrating, brother, is that it is not within our capacity to get into the "why" of God's chosen words. It is only in our capacity to try to find the guidance that results from those words. I hope you understand. I don't think God is a trickster. And I'm sure you don't think God is shy or afraid. But we can spend days on end throwing these comments back and forth with no progress, because that path does not lead anywhere.
Why would confusion be the purpose though?
It's just a thought. Perhaps the term "jinn" itself is a trial for the believers and non-believers. Only God knows.
And are you going by Truth's view of jinns? And/Or what is your view of jinns?
As always, Oben's thoughts are well-conceived, well-supported, and logical. I think we're on the same page, but maybe different paragraphs. As I said, for me, this is an evolving understanding and I have no position to stand behind besides the likelihood that "jinn" means different things in different contexts. Sometimes the best way to figure out what something is, is by making note of what it is not.
My understanding thus far is that jinn are not creatures of any sort.
Peace,
Tay -
I need ed a laugh
Thanks brother truth
4911 O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor let some women laugh at others It may be that the (latter are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.
Peace.
LOL bro
thanks for the laugh again but nice try bro, ii was laughing at what you said not at you
LOL
you made my day
Cheers
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Peace Ahmed,
It seems you've found a loophole in God's guidance. Perhaps the words exist without the person who spoke them? If I laughed at someone with a disability, could I say I'm not laughing at the person, but at the disability?
Peace,
TayLOL bro
the verse is clear man, but it is up to you if you want to call ikt a loophole,
Bro you too had a nice try, But it does not make sense indeed because the disability is part of the person
if you laugh at the disability then you will be laughing at that person hence 4911 will apply to you but if you laugh at what I say because what I say is just load of rubbish and does not make any sense to a child then 4911 does not apply to you
Cheers
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Peace Ahmed,
I understand. The words are not a part of the person, so you can laugh at the words as long as they are "rubbish according to Ahmed". Do you laugh at your children when they speak incorrectly? How about when they draw you a picture for a special occasion - do you laugh at the drawings? Drawings are not a part of the person, right? How about when someone cooks you a meal that you don't like, do you laugh at the meal?
I'll remember this the next time someone comes to me seeking heartfelt advice. I'll laugh at them, and tell them not worry, it's the words I'm laughing at, not them.
A loophole indeed.
Peace,
Tay -
2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina alma-i kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona
If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.
Very good point !
Therefore a "jinn" is not a separate type of mythical being. It is merely an aspect of us.
Compare to...
2957 Every "nafs" will taste death, then to us you will be ultimately returned.
Kullu nafsin tha-iqatu almawti thumma ilayna turjaAAoona
Going with the false logic of the mythical jinn believers then this verse would prove that there is yet another type of 'being' called a "nafs".
The truth as we know in that case is that a "nafs" is within us. So is the "jinn".
Regards.
IMHO, the word jinn is used to describe a fiery (arrogant, proud...) mindset.
Iblis symbolically personalises this mindset.
And the word jinn is also used to refer to a class of human beings known to be proud/arrogant in a chiefdom system the chiefs/nobles.
Cf http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.0Peace
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Peace Ahmed,
Peace bro
I understand. The words are not a part of the person,
Good so why you suggested that laughing will be at the person not at the words that is not part of him?
Bro this is a professional job called Stand up Comedian, so why feel insulted?
I don?t know, does the people laugh at the stand up comedian or they laugh at what he/she says?, well if they laugh does the stand up comedian feels insulted?, I?d say no, because they were not laughing at him rather at what he said
so you can laugh at the words as long as they are "rubbish according to Ahmed".
Load of rubbish is an Australian term, however regardless of that when you face others with the truth the sequence may be as follow
- they feel hurt (the truth hurts as you know)
- then they can?t handle that truth
- they start arguing further and waste more time on loads of rubbish
Do you laugh at your children when they speak incorrectly?
Of course but my children are mature and don?t feel insulted
How about when they draw you a picture for a special occasion - do you laugh at the drawings?
If it is laughable I have to laugh, I?m not a hypocrite nor double faced, if my children work is s*** I will tell them that and if it is laughable I have to laugh and possibly they will laugh with me
Drawings are not a part of the person, right?
That?s right, and it can be really funny or stupid drawing, you know they are kids
How about when someone cooks you a meal that you don't like, do you laugh at the meal?
That is not funny to laugh but I will clearly tell them that the food is s***, in fact my son Nany is from Thailand, and their food really stinks man and I will always tell her that no way I will eat that s***, LOL, I think they use something called fish oil which I reckon the s*** smells better
I'll remember this the next time someone comes to me seeking heartfelt advice. I'll laugh at them, and tell them not worry, it's the words I'm laughing at, not them.
Cool, I?m glad I taught you somethin
A loophole indeed.
Peace,
TayFine, I?m professional in finding loopholes
Cheers
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2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina alma-i kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona
If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.
Very good point !
Peace bro
why it is good I wonder?
under that flawed point then the Quran has a contradiction because the Quran said humans were created from soil, now the above says everything alive is created from water
please resolve the contradiction Oben has hatched with his flawed point
Salam
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2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina alma-i kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona
If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.
Very good point !
Actually its a pretty moot point and a contradiction to bring about verse 2130 and cover it upon all other relevant verses pertaining to jinns that clearly mention these entities as "living creatures"
Jinns are created and worshipped as idols (6100).
Jinns and humans inspire fancy words to deceit each other (6112)
Jinns are companions to humans and claim multitudes of them (612
Jinns and humans both receive messengers and revelations and both bear witness (6130)
Jinns and humans are both communities and mislead each other (738, 4125, 4129, 461
Jinns and humans are committed to hell and both have GOD given senses (7179)
Jinns and humans are created and both of them judged (11119)
Jinns and humans are both challenged to produce a Quran like this (178
Jinns and humans were both soldiers and worked for Solomon (2717, 3412)
Jinns and humans predetermined to fill hell (3213)
Jinns realizing unforseen death (3414)
Jinns know that they are subservient (3715
Jinns listening to Quran (1629, 721)
Jinns and humans are both created to serve GOD (5156)
Jinns and humans cannot deny the marvels of nature in which they were created (5513)
Jinns and humans called for account (5531)
Jinns and humans challenged to penetrate outer limits without permission (5533)
Jinns and humans not questioned for their sins (5539)
Jinns and humans beautiful mates untouched (5556, 5570, 5574)
Jinns and humans thought of uttering lies about GOD (725)
Humans seeking power/support from jinns (726)
Seeking refuge from the evils of jinns and humans (1146)Jinns created from fire (1527, 5515)
Humans created from clay/mud (1526 and several others)
Iblis was a jinn (1850)
Adam was a human (359, 1761)By analyzing the above verses, I believe the jinns are species of mankind; living beings of fiery, tempestuous and volatile behaviour, often seen "hidden/unseen" under normal circumstances unless provoked or confronted and they live within their own voluptuous realm. Some verses above are contradictory and inconsistent with other verses within the Quran such as 5539.
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under that flawed point then the Quran has a contradiction because the Quran said humans were created from soil, now the above says everything alive is created from water
please resolve the contradiction Oben has hatched with his flawed point
OMG! a contradiction in the quran!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hello All
I decided to bring on all the verses in the Quran that have the words ?Jinn?, ?Al Jinn? or ?Jan? or ?Jinnah?, therefore will be able to see if those who promote that loads of non sense about the Jinn as leaders of ordinary humans is really sensible
In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;-
(56)
-> Why in 5556 Allah differentiated it between the Ins and Jinn regarding the Hour Ein? I mean do those leaders keep their leader status in paradise and those ordinary men stay as such in paradise?
Well I guess the promoters of this non sense need to click here Please click here mister smart
To be continued?..
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under that flawed point then the Quran has a contradiction because the Quran said humans were created from soil, now the above says everything alive is created from water
please resolve the contradiction Oben has hatched with his flawed point
OMG! a contradiction in the quran!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL
i didn't say there is bro, nice try, it's Oben flawed understanding that he is pushing that is constituting a clear cut contradiction that he needs to resolve
I guess he will come and say Haha you mix the soil with water but fire can't be mixed with water but let's see what he has to say
Cheers
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14- He created man from sounding clay like unto pottery,
15- And He created the jinn of a flame of fire.(14)
(15)Now can anuyone of this non sense advocates prove to me that Saddam Hussain was created from a flame of fire and me was created from sounding clay like unto pottery?
I don?t really know how they are going to verify that they have to do it according to their 1736 flawed understanding, but at least me and Saddam are available for any scientific testings
I guess the promoters of this non sense need to continue to click here Please click here mister smart
To be continued?..
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Well, what can I say, let?s look at this funny one
And throw down thy staff! But when he saw it writhing as it were a Jaan, he turned to flee headlong; (but it was said unto him) O Moses! Fear not! the emissaries fear not in My presence,
(10)
Now we have a serious problem, it seems when Moses threw his staff, it started to move like a Human leader yeah
Oh yeh great sense, "What The ....."
Please keep clicking here mister smart
To be continued?..