Satan - Fallen Angel Or Not?
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The Plot
Here is the whole plot in brief as described by the Quran
(30)?And when thy Lord said unto the angels Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said Surely I know that which ye know not.?
(31)?And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.?
(32)?They said Be glorified! We have no knowledge saving that which Thou hast taught us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower, the Wise.?
(33)?He said O Adam! Inform them of their names, and when he had informed them of their names, He said Did I not tell you that I know the secret of the heavens and the earth? And I know that which ye disclose and which ye hide.?
(34)?And when We said unto the angels Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.?(35)?And We said O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.?
(36)?But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time.?
(37)?Then Adam received from his Lord words, and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.?
(3?We said Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.?
(39) ?But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.?
if we examine those 9 verses carefully we can conclude the following
-> in verse 30 we see Allah is talking to the Angels and telling them ?And when thy Lord said unto the angels Lo! I am about to place a viceroy ?humans? in the earth,? it is obvious from this bit that Allah told the Angels that He will place humans ON EARTH, before he created Adam. The Angels are described in the Quran that they have no free will but we will see next that they questioned God after the Angels wondered. This will give us the inclination that you can question God and his doings as long as you respect Him as a God, the Angels on the other hand even kept part of their wonders inside them and did not expose it all, well they might even have asked themselves other questions wondering on why is going to place a new creature called humans on earth, they actually produced an argument to Allah as well by saying they said Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee?, , bur how the Angels knew that the humans ? who will do harm therein and will shed blood? this bit actually confirmed what I read about the Jinn, that they were created ages before humans to inhibit earth but they destroyed it totally due to their superior powers but yet they never have the humans brain qualities, so Iblis who was one of them who was worshipping Allah but not with sincerity he was a hypocrite, so Allah left him up to tne heaven to fool him further ?Ghawah? as Allah knows Iblis was nothing but a hypocrite then assigned him a job as a paradise guard or some sort of a job that made him resident of the heaven and while Iblis was up there, Allah sent the Angels who imprisoned all the Jinns under the earth crust, but due to their superior abilities some have the knowledge on how to slip through the earth crust, this story sound like a tale but I do believe it when I see the verses of the Quran running in harmony with this story about the Jinns existence on earth before human and as I go into the story further you will understand what I mean with it, but as you can see that this might be the cause of the Angels wonder, as they thought the humans will do the same as the Jinns did ?who will do harm therein and will shed blood?, but Allah responded back to the Angels by ?He said Surely I know that which ye know not.? , confirming that they just do not know what Allah has planned to us as His new invention, but yet Allah proved the Angels ignorance in the following verse
-> verse 31, Allah taught Adam all the names of things, like tree, flower and so on, then asked the Angels to say the names of a few things that Allah did not teach the Angels before ?And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.?
-> verse 32, the Angels ignorance was exposed ?They said Be glorified! We have no knowledge saving that which Thou hast taught us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower, the Wise.? can you see that they admitted that they have only the knowledge of things which they have been taught by Allah
-> verse 33 shows Adam have the knowledge to learn and in fact he learnt more from God than the Angels ?He said O Adam! Inform them of their names, and when he had informed them of their names,? and Adam success in telling the names of the things produced by Allah, Allah spoke back to the Angels telling them He said Did I not tell you that I know the secret of the heavens and the earth?, but Allah did not stop here in His talk to the Angels He actually informed them that He even knew their wonder that they did not expose to him ?And I know that which ye disclose and which ye hide.?
-> verse 34 tell us that humans are in higher level than the Angels, Allah said to the Angels and Iblis who was up there as I explained before to prostrate themselves before Adam ?And when We said unto the angels Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate,, they all did expect Iblis ?all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.? so Allah exposed his hypocrisy, but some asked me before that Iblis was one of the Angels then? Well, the Quran came with the answer that runs in harmony with the historical story about the Jinn, I will jump quickly to another location in the Quran where it describes that part of the story of Adam
?Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam" They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!?
-> it is clear in this verse that Allah is responding to the people that claimed Iblis was one of the Angels or a fallen Angel?except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns?, but see how consistent the Quran is?, Allah is telling us what Iblis has done in another part of the Quran ? and he broke the Command of his Lord?, and the verse end with important information that Iblis is like us regarding reproduction as well Allah is wondering by asking us ?Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me??, taking him as ?protector? means obeying him, means if a human do any mischief on earth he/she will be a devil worshipper, they just do not know, but here is Allah logic, NOT to listen to the Jinn who can see us and we can not see them ?And they are enemies to you!? and sure the wrong-doers will exchange good with evil?Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!?, but if you read this bit in Arabic ? ? it means a condemnation by Allah to this sort of exchange.
I will have to move to another location in the Quran to show how Allah is telling us that Iblis and his progeny see us and we can not see them while the verse is summing up the whole plot at the same time
?O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame for he and his tribe see you from a position where ye cannot see them We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.?
-> in this verse Allah is talking to all of us ?All humanity ? O ye Children of Adam!?, He is advising us to watch for ?Iblis? and his progeny ? ! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden,?, in fact after Adam and Eve fell into Satan seduction, Satan started to laugh hysterically and started to stripp their cloths to show their gentiles of each one to the other, this is actually a common knowledge in the story tale and yet it is written in the Quran ?stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame?, the word ? ? was translated as ?Shame?, but it means in Arabic the ?Genitals?, I think the translators somehow felt it will be odd to use the true translation ?Genitals? but sure they are stupid to do so, there is no shame in the Quran teachings, following that is an important piece of information from Allah that humans need to know ?for he and his tribe see you from a position where ye cannot see them? and finally Allah telling us that He will make the bad Jinns friends to the bad humans ? We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.?, we can safely conclude that the Jinns are hidden, hence the word Jinn was borrowed from the meaning of Jinns to sometimes means Hidden, but again you have to say what that thing that is hidden?, the Arabic word Jinn use to mean hidden is very rare and in fact I never heard it all my life I lived in the Arabic communities
-> back to main story in verse 35 we see Allah is telling Adam to dwell in the garden and eat freely but never touch this tree otherwise you will be wrong-doers ?And We said O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.?
-> verse 36 tell us that Satan succeeded in seducing our parents by fooling them to eat from the forbidden tree ?But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were;, the story here did not go into details but in other locations in the Quran it went further into details, like the example I showed you about stripping their clothes to show their genitals?, then the objective of putting us on earth is fulfilled ?and We said Fall down,? but Allah is telling us an important note that humans are going to be foes to each other and this is really true over the history of mankind? one of you a foe unto the other!? and the earth will be the place to live on until the judgement day ?There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time.? , however this bit can also be understood in a a way that will make more sense, Allah used the verb ?Ihbatto? in a plural form, while prior to that Allah was talking to Adam and his mate in a double format, why is that?, the best answer I had from a respected scholar that the order to Ihbatto was given to three ?Adam, his mate and Iblis?, and this makes great sense because we know that Iblis was up there and when he rebelled, he was only ordered to exit the heaven but not to go down to earth, in here he was ordered along with Adam and his mate fall down to earth hence the verb Ihbatto was used in a plural format.
-> verse 37 telling us that Adam was more responsible for the sin unlike other beliefs that his partner was responsible, but the point is Adam knew of the mistake committed and he relented to Allah because Allah has warned him in advance ?Then Adam received from his Lord words, and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.?, my note here that this Arabic words were translated in a way that can be confusing ? ? it actually means clearly that Allah has forgiven Adam after Adam relented to Allah, this forgiveness was a must because earth was the location for this life as intended by Allah before creating Adam, but Allah with his wisdom wanted this to be associated with a great lesson for humanity to watch for Satan and his progeny
-> verse 38 is the confirmation for humanity to live on earth with a promise from Allah that He will not leave us alone without His guidance ?We said Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance;? and sure humans who will follow the guidance shall have no fear neither they will grieve ?and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.?
-> verse 39 tells us about the humans who will not follow the guidance that will be sent by Allah ?But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.?
To be continued.....
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I will move to a further locations in the Quran where more details about some events within the story come to surface, this will show the consistency of the Quran
(26)?We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;?
(27)?And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.?
(2?Behold! thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;?
(29)"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
(30)?So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together?
(31)?Not so Iblis he refused to be among those who prostrated themselves.?
(32)?(Allah) said "O Iblis! what is your reason for not being among those who prostrated themselves?"
(33)?(Iblis) said "I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."
(34)?(Allah) said "Then get thee out from here; for thou art rejected, accursed.
(35)"And the curse shall be on thee till the day of Judgment."
(36)?(Iblis) said "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."
(37)?(Allah) said "Respite is granted thee?
(3"Till the Day of the Time appointed."
(39)?(Iblis) said "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,-?
(40)"Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."
(41)?(Allah) said "This (way of My sincere servants) is indeed a way that leads straight to Me.?
(42)"For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee."
(43)?And verily, Hell is the promised abode for them all!?
(44)?To it are seven gates for each of those gates is a (special) class (of sinners) assigned.?we can read extra information regarding the first humans created as follow
-> verse 26 , a piece of information that humans are created from sounding clay moulded into shape ?We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;?
-> verse 27 another piece of information that jinns are created from the fire of a scorching wind ?And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.?
-> verse 28 moves to Adam story again?Behold! thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;?
-> verse 29 give us more details on Adam creation "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit,? then when Adam be a live human after Allah breathed into him of His spirit, Allah is telling the Angels to fall down unto Adam?fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
-> verse 30 , tells us that all the Angels obeyed Allah?s command to fall down unto Adam?So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together?
-> verse 31, but Iblis refused so as he had a choice unlike the Angels?Not so Iblis he refused to be among those who prostrated themselves.?
-> verse 32, Allah asked Iblis, why he refused to fall down unto Adam ?(Allah) said "O Iblis! what is your reason for not being among those who prostrated themselves?"
-> verse 33, Iblis responded with ?(Iblis) said "I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape.", Iblis knew that Adam was created from sounding clay, moulded into shape this indicate that he saw the start of Adam creation process and because he was created from fire Iblis thought he is better than Adam.
-> verse 34, show us Allah response by ?(Allah) said "Then get thee out from here; for thou art rejected, accursed.? and Iblis was cursed by Allah, but he was ordered to only exit the heaven not to fall down to earth.
-> verse 35 tells us that Iblis curse will be on him till the judgment day "And the curse shall be on thee till the day of Judgment.", sure this made Iblis hate humans more.
-> verse 36, Iblis requested that Allah give him a chance till the judgment day to prove to Him that humans do not deserve this respect ?(Iblis) said "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."
-> verse 37, Allah granted Iblis wish ?(Allah) said "Respite is granted thee?
-> verse 38, and the wish was granted to Iblis till the judgment day as he requested from Allah "Till the Day of the Time appointed."
-> verse 39, we see how Iblis was angry with Adam and how he promised to put all humans in the wrong ?(Iblis) said "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,-?, but can you see how Iblis realized that he was played by Allah, as rasing him first to be one of the garden guards or sort of then Allah created Adam and asked Iblis to fall down unto him, this is obvious from what Iblis said ? O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong? and in Arabic ? ?, i.e. Iblis was fooled by Allah because he deserved it.
-> verse 40, Iblis is saying but he can not do this ?putting humans in the wrong? with the sincere believers in Allah "Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."
-> verse 41, then Allah responded to Iblis ?(Allah) said "This (way of My sincere servants) is indeed a way that leads straight to Me.?, this actually is translated wrong again, the Arabic verse ? ? actually means that Allah is saying ?This is the straight truth that I will enforce? and what that straight truth is?, in the following verse is the answer
-> verse 42, tells us what we should know by Allah as a truthful fact "For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee." , see, Satan will have no authority over the sincere believers and only the people who put themselves in the wrong will follow him
-> verse 43 tells us of the final destination of Iblis and his followers from Jinn and from mankind?And verily, Hell is the promised abode for them all!?
-> verse 44 tells us a small description of that Hell promised in the last verse ?To it are seven gates for each of those gates is a (special) class (of sinners) assigned.?, so the Hell will have 7 gates, for each gate there will enter an assigned number of sinners, it seems that the sinners will be grouped in seven groups according to the level of sins committed, i.e the Hell has seven levels, I actually know from the Quran that any one from Jesus disciples who disbelieved in Jesus message will be in the worst level ?hell 7 ? along with them comes Firon as the Quran told us
Moving on to another location in the Quran where the story of Adam is mentioned again
(71) ?Behold, thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create man from clay?
(72) "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
(73) ?So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together ?
(74) ?Not so Iblis he was haughty, and became one of those who reject Faith.?
(75)?(Allah) said "O Iblis! What prevents thee from prostrating thyself to one whom I have created with my hands? Art thou haughty? Or art thou one of the high (and mighty) ones?"
(76) ?(Iblis) said "I am better than he thou createdst me from fire, and him thou createdst from clay."
(77)(Allah) said "Then get thee out from here for thou art rejected, accursed.
(7 "And My curse shall be on thee till the Day of Judgment."
(79) ?(Iblis) said "O my Lord! Give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."
(80) ?(Allah) said "Respite then is granted thee-?
(81) "Till the Day of the Time Appointed."
(82) ?(Iblis) said "Then, by Thy power, I will put them all in the wrong,- ?
(83)"Except Thy Servants amongst them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."
(84) ?(Allah) said "Then it is just and fitting- and I say what is just and fitting-?
(85) "That I will certainly fill Hell with thee and those that follow thee,- every one."-> I do not need to add my comments, it is almost the same as the previous location however if you compare the Arabic words between the 2 location you will start sensing the miracle of the Quran, the same story is said while changing the Arabic words and even using totally different Arabic words that will lead to the same and exact meaning, and this is an open invitation to find any discrepancies in the Quran, because for a conman to keep track of what he is saying in a period of 23 years ?the time took for the whole Quran revelation? to make sure that it is constant, is damn hard for him and he has to make mistakes, especially if he tried to be smart and use different words to express the same and exact meanings.
-> the only extra piece of information here is in verse 82, where it shows us how Iblis is swearing with Allah?s power to put all humans in the wrong ?(Iblis) said "Then, by Thy power, I will put them all in the wrong,- ?, this should give the impression, how Iblis will be so determined to put all humans in the wrong.
Let?s jump again to another location in the Quran
(61) ?Behold! We said to the angels "Bow down unto Adam" They bowed down except Iblis He said, "Shall I bow down to one whom Thou didst create from clay?"
(62) ?He said "Seest Thou? this is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few!"
(63) ?(Allah) said "Go thy way; if any of them follow thee, verily Hell will be the recompense of you (all)- an ample recompense.?
(64)"Lead to destruction those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them." But Satan promises them nothing but deceit.?
(65)"As for My servants, no authority shalt thou have over them" Enough is thy Lord for a Disposer of affairs.?-> same story again in different Arabic words, this is a language miracle my friend, would that be possible for even a literate man? Well of course IT IS NOT POSSIBLE because the Quran has challenged humanity to make up ONE SURA like the Quran and the Quran did not stop here but asked the Jinns to support the humans as well, not even enough, well the Quran asked humans who believe in another gods to ask for their gods assistance as well, and yet the Quran tells us the outcome of this challenge that NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO because they have to bring the god who authored a sura like it to give witness otherwise they will be not truthful.
-> the extra pieces of information here are as follow
-> verse 62, Iblis is saying that he will sway most people BUT A FEW ?He said "Seest Thou? this is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway ? all but a few!"
-> verse 64, Allah is telling us what Iblis can do to us "Lead to destruction those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them." But Satan promises them nothing but deceit.?
To be continued.....
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let?s move to another location in the Quran
(11)?It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who prostrate.?
(12)?(Allah) said "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said "I am better than he Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."
(13) ?(Allah) said "Get thee down from this it is not for thee to be arrogant here get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
(14)?He said "Give me respite till the day they are raised up."
(15) ?(Allah) said "Be thou among those who have respite."
(16)?He said "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way ?
(17) "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."
(1 ?(Allah) said "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.?
(19)"O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."
(20) ?Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before) he said "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever."
(21)?And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.?
(22) ?So by deceit he brought about their fall when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"
(23) ?They said "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls If thou forgive us not and bestow not? (24)?(Allah) said "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."
(25)?He said "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."-> the Quran language miracle continues by telling the same exact story using different words, please compare the Arabic verses if you can read Arabic, but let?s look at the extra pieces of information that we can extract from these verses
-> verse 17 telling us how Iblis will launch his continuous assaults against humans and sure most of us will follow him "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."
-> in verse 20 we can see how Iblis fooled Adam and his mate to convince them of eating from the forbidden tree ?Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before) he said "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever."
-> verse 21, we can see another trick that Iblis used to fool Adam and his mate ?And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.?
-> verse 22 we read about the moment Adam and his mate ate from the forbidden tree and after Iblis ripped off their cloths and their genitals were exposed to each other hence they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies ?So by deceit he brought about their fall when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. ", then Allah called Adam and his mate ?And their Lord called unto them "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"
-> verse 23, Adam and Eve responded back to Allah ?They said "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls If thou forgive us not and bestow not?
-> verse 24 then they were sent down to earth ?(Allah) said "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time." , again the enmity is more logical to be between humans and the bad jinns but it still valid if it means between humans and themselves.
-> verse 25 is one of my favourite verses in the Quran describing Earth ?He said "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)., in Arabic ? ?
let?s jump again to another location in the Quran, the last one regarding Adam and Eve
(115) ?We had already, beforehand, taken the covenant of Adam, but he forgot and We found on his part no firm resolve.?
(116) ?When We said to the angels, "Prostrate yourselves to Adam", they prostrated themselves, but not Iblis he refused.?
(117) ?Then We said "O Adam! verily, this is an enemy to thee and thy wife so let him not get you both out of the Garden, so that thou art landed in misery.?
(11 "There is therein (enough provision) for thee not to go hungry nor to go naked,?
(119) "Nor to suffer from thirst, nor from the sun's heat."
(120) ?But Satan whispered evil to him he said, "O Adam! shall I lead thee to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?"
(121) ?In the result, they both ate of the tree, and so their nakedness appeared to them they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from the Garden thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced.?
(122) ?But his Lord chose him (for His Grace) He turned to him, and gave him Guidance.?
(123) ?He said "Get ye down, both of you,- all together, from the Garden, with enmity one to another but if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from Me, whosoever follows My Guidance, will not lose his way, nor fall into misery.?-> same language miracle continues and the only extra piece of info is seen here is within the advice by Allah to Adam not to touch the forbidden tree, Allah told Adam that if they violates then they will be removed from the Garden
-> verse 117 ?Then We said "O Adam! verily, this is an enemy to thee and thy wife so let him not get you both out of the Garden, so that thou art landed in misery.?
-> verse 118 and this is what Adam and his mate were enjoying in the garden "There is therein (enough provision) for thee not to go hungry nor to go naked,?, and sure that is why they become naked after they violated
-> verse 119, as well Adam and his mate were enjoying the following in the garden "Nor to suffer from thirst, nor from the sun's heat."
The point is here, Adam and his mate story was very important to be detailed in Allah?s last message, you expect this if Allah is telling us that those are the first 2 humans He created, well the rest of us came from them,
?O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created from i, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.?
From all the above, it will be ridiculous to consider the following
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Iblis was an Angel or a fallen Angel, because Allah clearly told us that the Angels never disobey Him and they do what they are told, for example when they were sent to destroy Lut?s people, they followed the orders with no compassion whatsoever for those wrong doers, when they were ordered to prostrate to Adam they all obeyed, and surely Iblis didn?t obey because he was from the jinn exactly as Allah told usin the Quran, he has a freewill to disopbey while the Angels have not
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Iblis is sort of a human leader, because Allah always differentiated between the Ins and Jinn, only when it came to the freewill, Allah told us that we are the same, other than that we are totally different creatures, this is evident from the Quran according to the substance of creation as well according to the concrete fact that Allah told us that the Jinn were created ages before the humans, no wonder one Jinn was up there before even Adam or any intelligent human was created
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Considering that Iblis is an Angel because when Allah ordered the entities up there He only told us in the Quran that He said to the Angels to prostrate, however, in no way this can be conclusive that Iblis was an Angel because the majority of the entities up there were Angels, in fact there might be millions and millions of them that took that order and only one Jinn, saying it as such ?Allah said to the Angels and Iblis prostrate yourself to Adam?, is really silly because Iblis is a bad jinn anyway and Allah was exposing him and I believe mentioning him along with the whole Angels is like putting him in a unique position while the fact of the matter it was a plot to expose him, but there is no doubt that the order to prostrate applied to him because Allah questioned him when he refused to prostrate to Adam
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Write off the explanation by some historians regarding why Iblis was up there, while I agree that it can?t be conclusive it still does not contradict the Quran hence it is plausible however do we really need to know?, or let me ask it this way, are we going to be held accountable if we know or not?
Well it does not make any sense if we are held accountable regarding the knowledge of this specific issue ?Why Iblis was up there??, because it has nothing to do with what with our responsibilities towards the future account, our responsibility is only to believe in Allah and His message, now He never told us in His message ?why Iblis was up there? therefore we can?t be held accountable and even if it will be the case, then we have the mightiest of all defences, the defence the Angel used when Allah asked them to say the names of a few objects
We can simply tell Allah
?Subhanak, La Ilm Lana Ila Ma Almatana, Inaka Anta Al Alim Al Hakim?
?Be glorified! We have no knowledge saving that which Thou hast taught us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower, the Wise.?
Salam
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Peace
Brother AhmedBahgat
Thank you for this very learned and well documented rendition of the story of Adam and Ibliss and how they got cast off from Heaven.
I really appreciated it, and learnt a few more things from you.
Best salams
Nabster -
If you have some time, you can read http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1914.0
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peace ahmed
why was satan originally not an angel? Weren't the angels asked to fall prostrate?
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peace ahmed
why was satan originally not an angel? Weren't the angels asked to fall prostrate?
Peace bro
because Allah was clear as light "Allah said Iblis was from the Jinn"
what else bro you need to prove that Iblis was a Jinn?, isn't Allah enough of a witness?
regarding the angels that were asked to prostrate, well, as I said there are millions of angels and just one Jinn who was bad already so why Allah put him in a category that equivlent to the all mighty angels including Jebril and other might ones?, it seems to me that Iblis was giving a task to do as the angels do, therefore it ia quite possible that it is metaphorically used to include Iblis as well
the bottom line is , to use this argument to prove that Iblis was an angel, is very weak because Allah clearly told us that Iblis was a Jinn and He never told us that Iblis was an angel
Salam
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peace
what else bro you need to prove that Iblis was a Jinn?, isn't Allah enough of a witness?
I am not saying that Ibliss is not a jinn. He is.
i was actually referring to a possiblitly that jinns are angels who rebelled/rejected.
234 And We said to the Angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.
God is SPECIFICALLY telling the ANGELS to fall down before Adam. Also Satan BECAME a rejecter which means he wasn't a rejecter before.
just like if we disobey God we're no longer believers. We are rejecters.
And if Satan WAS already evil before this event why would he be allowed anywhere near paradise? Do evil ones get into paradise?
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peace
what else bro you need to prove that Iblis was a Jinn?, isn't Allah enough of a witness?
I am not saying that Ibliss is not a jinn. He is.
Peace
Good, so if you concluded that he was a Jinn, what is you are asking about exactly?
i was actually referring to a possiblitly that jinns are angels who rebelled/rejected.
well, he can't be because Allah never said so, but i may accept that he was a jinn that was given an angel status "as a title but not physically be one" when Allah was fooling him due to his hypocricy and arrogance, however Allah can make him an angel after he was a jinn then restored him back to a jinn status after he was exposed as Allah planned, this might explain that Allah used the past tense of verb to be "Kana from the Jinns", i.e. he was given a temporary title of an angel or possibly was converted temporarly to an angel "Allah can do anything" but it seems this part was not important for us to know or even was kept secret so the conjecrures advicates have a lot of fun doing what they love, at the end of the day this is just conjectures and Allah never told us about it but "He was one of the Jinn"
234 And We said to the Angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.
as I said before
God is SPECIFICALLY telling the ANGELS to fall down before Adam. Also Satan BECAME a rejecter which means he wasn't a rejecter before.
Satan was a rejector before he rejected and Allah knew that for sure
just like if we disobey God we're no longer believers. We are rejecters.
not sure what is your point, however if you agree that Iblis was one of the Jinns as Allah told us then we have no problem, anyone including myself who tells you anything but that must be conjecture
And if Satan WAS already evil before this event why would he be allowed anywhere near paradise? Do evil ones get into paradise?
Well, according to Allah, Iblis was set up and one of these conjectures may be valid but we will never know at least for now
- He was temproraly given a metaphorically angel status "like a title" as part of the setup plan
- He was temproraly converted physically from a jinn to an angel as part of the setup plan
regardless of any of the conjectures above you go for, i'm sure about one fact, that Iblis was one of the Jinns
Salam
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Salam
Ahmed Bro
May I add something...
While Adam and Eve got fooled and failed the test, they were not in a state of Imaan but still were kept in the Garden, until they got kicked out, so Allah can keep ones in the Garden as he pleases, even if they are in a state of rejection.
As for the conjecture that Ibliss was turned temporarily to an Angel, I am not comfortable with it because the Angel state is one of pure obedience. Example Harut and Marut had to assume human state form to do what they did (fitna to mankind), so I think Ibliss was still a Jinn when he was in the Garden and Allah is able to do all things...
Allah knows best as always
Peace
Nabster -
Salam
Ahmed Bro
May I add something...
While Adam and Eve got fooled and failed the test,Peace mate
I donlt think it was a test bro, it was a plan by Allah to give Adam an awesome experience so he can transfer the messege to his children in a more serious manner, Allah clearly forgave Adam on the spot as well Allah before creating Adam, said to the angels that He will create humans on earth, so we menat to be on earth fromj the first place, it was a lesson to Adam and for all of us, it was not a test because the real test was planned to be on this earth
they were not in a state of Imaan but still were kept in the Garden,
I believe they were true believers, they talked to Allah Himeself, I guess they just didn't have any experience dealing with the devil hence Allah made them gain the experience while loosing nothing because they were meant to be on earth as 230 is telling us
until they got kicked out, so Allah can keep ones in the Garden as he pleases, even if they are in a state of rejection.
not sure about that bro, but what I'm sure about that Allah forgave Adam on the spot, but He still sent Him to earth because he meant to be there from the first place however Adam now have experience that he can transfer to all of us
As for the conjecture that Ibliss was turned temporarily to an Angel, I am not comfortable with it because the Angel state is one of pure obedience.
neither me bro, I was only saying it to those who love conjectures, and it still stands as a string logic against their search for nothing, clearly Allah told us that "He is Qadir Ala Kul Shai", therefore any thing we can thing of, Allah can do it, even if it involves turing a jin to an angel or vice verse, there is no limit to Allah power
Example Harut and Marut had to assume human state form to do what they did (fitna to mankind), so I think Ibliss was still a Jinn when he was in the Garden and Allah is able to do all things...
Allah knows best as always
Peace
NabsterI say it is quite possibly that he was ranked as an angel, because the argument that "All the angels prostrated EXCEPT Iblis" is a very strong one
what I'm trying to say for those who want to chase it further then it is quite possible that Allah gave the rank of an angel to Iblis "metaphorically", as part of His plan to fool and expose him
Allah knows best and I really care not if Iblis was an angel or not or even morphed into an angel, all I care and positive about that Iblis was one of the Jinns
Peace bro
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Peace
How wonderful to see that we can agree on what Allah taught us ) -
As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.I agree, Ibliss was and is a Jinn. >D
He will try to decieve us until the End of Time. elektro
We must always seek Allah Most Merciful for help, guidence and protection. jediAs salamu alaykum. muscle
Hey bro
I'm working on a flash movie regarding this subject, please keep an eye, I'm sure you will love it if you can see the message within
Take care
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peace ahmed
i wasn't saying that Satan is not a jinn! He clearly is. I am saying he became one after he refused to obey God and became arrogant. I am saying that jinns and angels are only different in title. That satan wasn't always evil. The message of this story is that EVERYBODY can go astray, if they let their ego get in the way. Which has been the down-fall of the human race.
Humans = Believers = Rejecters
The Unseen = Jinns = Angels
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peace ahmed
peace mate
i wasn't saying that Satan is not a jinn! He clearly is. I am saying he became one after he refused to obey God and became arrogant.
how he became a jinn and he was a jinn?
I am saying that jinns and angels are only different in title. That satan wasn't always evil.
there is nothing to indicate that Iblis was ever good entity in the Quran, therefore assunimg that he was is conjecture, we just don't know and Allah never told us that piece of info
The message of this story is that EVERYBODY can go astray, if they let their ego get in the way. Which has been the down-fall of the human race.
of course there is a message in the story and possibly any story we hear of, however I don't consider the fall of Adam and his mate to earth was a downfall, rather it was meant to be even before Adam was created, it was only done this way to associte it with a very important lesson
Humans = Believers = Rejecters
and the Jinns = Believers = Rejecters
The Unseen = Jinns = Angels
I guess there are many other things that are unseen, for example a true story that happened 8000 years ago is not seen for us but sure it happened because I called it a true story, and you can only be certain that it is a true story if the teller is Allah not any human even prophets
Salam
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peace ahmed
we just don't know and Allah never told us that piece of info
Yes but Allah told us that he told the angels to fall prostrate and they all fell except Satan.
This is not at-all a firm understanding. I like to keep my options open. I think it's the best way to go.
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peace ahmed
we just don't know and Allah never told us that piece of info
Yes but Allah told us that he told the angels to fall prostrate and they all fell except Satan.
This is not at-all a firm understanding. I like to keep my options open. I think it's the best way to go.
as I agreed that this is a string argument however Allah has refutyed it and He said He was one of the Jinn and I'm sure you know that Jinns are not angels, so if Allah said so and He didn't say how Iblis was within the angels when the order of prostrating was passed, why you want to make him an angel?, I'm also puzzled by keeping your mind open comment, is it like when a human being comes and tell you whatever that iblis was ranked or converted to an angel, will you believe that human?, and if you do how this will infleunce your belief in Allah and the last day?
Salam