Women In Paradise
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Salaam Zainab
Very beautiful insight of this subject matter and you have closed with a very powerful statement
However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions.
For those who have interest in this thread its important to stay on topic. The subject of that article is "Women In Paradise"
Salaam
Salaams to all ..
With regard to Verse 2223 .. yes it is for men just as several verses are also for women, and personally I see nothing wrong with that.
However, I think, in regard to the original post, discussing this verse would be stepping outside the main topic. The original post specifically pertains to relationships in Paradise whereas Verse 2223 is about husband/wife relationship in this world. Also verses concerning the Prophet's relationship with his wives are references to earthly life and pretty much out of topic.
However, Allah does not at all give the Prophet the permission to dismiss whichever wife the Prophets wants. It's easier to follow when one analyses this issue in a realistic light. Unlike his life in Makkah, in Medina the Prophet had a polygamous marriage. The Qur'aan mentions to all men involved in polygamous marriages, including the Prophet, that no matter how hard they try, it will not be humanly possible for them to treat all their wives 'equally.' It is but natural that in such a situation, for one reason or the other, the husband will end up spending a little more time with one unit of his family and lesser time with another. But it is of utmost importance not to quit the other or others altogether, and try as best as they can to maintain the balance. This is the basic concept, and I think it's much the opposite of what some people conclude. The Qur'aan refers that the believers (the Prophet included) are not to quit one wife for another for superficial reasons. One of the very important purposes of marriage according to the Qur'aan is to give security to the woman. No woman would ever be secure if she could be dismissed any time by her husband. And the Prophet's life itself is the clearest example that he never did that. Though, needless to say, there have been men in all eras of history who have grossly misconstrewed the Quraanic values with personal motives. That's a different matter.
However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions.
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Hello everyone,
I have a question regarding the prophet and his wives. Verse 3351 says
"You may gently shun any one of them, and you may bring closer to you any one of them. If you reconcile with any one you had estranged, you commit no error. In this way, they will be pleased, will have no grief, and will be content with what you equitably offer to all of them. GOD knows what is in your hearts. GOD is Omniscient, Clement.".
My question as commented by Myr is that why did God give the prophet the green light to do whatever he wanted with his wives. I am by no way disrespecting God's decision or the prophet, but if read from the point of view of today's modern person, doesn't what Myr said seem true - that God did give Muhammed the green light to do whatever he wanted with his wives? I am just wondering.
God be praised.
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6012 O you prophet, if the believing women come to make allegiance to you that they will not set up anything beside God, nor steal, nor commit adultery, nor kill their unborn children, nor fabricate any falsehood, nor disobey you in any matter which is righteous, then you shall accept their allegiance, and ask God to forgive them. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
why did God give the prophet the green light to do whatever he wanted with his wives.
he wasn't given the green light to do whatever he wanted
(re-read 3350 and 3352, he is being told what is lawful for him) more he was being told what he was PERMITTED to do. 6012 clearly proves that no-one was to obey the prophet unconditionally. -
Salam Al-Khidr, Zainab,
Salaam Zainab
Very beautiful insight of this subject matter and you have closed with a very powerful statement
However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions.
For those who have interest in this thread its important to stay on topic. The subject of that article is "Women In Paradise"<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
...................................
However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions.I know the subject was and is "women in Paradise". I had no intention to change the subject but just a reminder to you two that it was you Brother Al-Khidr in reply to my first message who asked me to quote the verses that were addressed to men on sex. That you have a different interpretation of the verses, I fully respect that and everyone is entitled to his or her undertanding of the verses to be allegorical or literal or even else, but please for the sake of the All-Mighty let us refrain from pointing at who is feminist and who is radical muslim but just debate the undertanding without labeling. I am fine with your understanding that all these verses are allegories. They are not for me and that should be fine for you so that we can move on without calling labels. Peace. Myr.
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Salaam Myr
You have said
"it was you Brother Al-Khidr in reply to my first message who asked me to quote the verses that were addressed to men on sex."
Remember Myr it was you who mentioned it in your first posting in this thread and I asked for those verses so that I can get a better understanding of your perception before I responded. I want to thank you for providing those verses, I just however commented on your points from your first post and so forth.
Now in regards to you not liking Zainab for addressing those groups who have strayed, should not be a problem at all. Why attemptd to control someone's tongue who has no fear and willing to speak the truth. Remember this forum is called "free-minds" and your desires (for what ever reasons) you do not like her expressing herself is in direct contradiction to the label and conept of "free-minds". If you did not like the statement Myr, with all due respect its personal and it should be left as personal because you have to keep in mind there are many many people out here who wants to hear an uncomprising TRUTH. There are many of us who learn that way. If we take the approach where we can't speak our mind and take positions etc., and just speak in a manner that makes every one happy, how can we actually grow, how can we actually learn spiritually and intellectually. What Zainab has commented on was very thought provoking, insightful and most of all true
"However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions."
Salaam
Salam Al-Khidr, Zainab,
Salaam Zainab
Very beautiful insight of this subject matter and you have closed with a very powerful statement
However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions.
For those who have interest in this thread its important to stay on topic. The subject of that article is "Women In Paradise"<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
...................................
However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions.I know the subject was and is "women in Paradise". I had no intention to change the subject but just a reminder to you two that it was you Brother Al-Khidr in reply to my first message who asked me to quote the verses that were addressed to men on sex. That you have a different interpretation of the verses, I fully respect that and everyone is entitled to his or her undertanding of the verses to be allegorical or literal or even else, but please for the sake of the All-Mighty let us refrain from pointing at who is feminist and who is radical muslim but just debate the undertanding without labeling. I am fine with your understanding that all these verses are allegories. They are not for me and that should be fine for you so that we can move on without calling labels. Peace. Myr.
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Salaams to all ..
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However, Allah does not at all give the Prophet the permission to dismiss whichever wife the Prophets wants. It's easier to follow when one analyses this issue in a realistic light. Unlike his life in Makkah, in Medina the Prophet had a polygamous marriage. The Qur'aan mentions to all men involved in polygamous marriages, including the Prophet, that no matter how hard they try, it will not be humanly possible for them to treat all their wives 'equally.' It is but natural that in such a situation, for one reason or the other, the husband will end up spending a little more time with one unit of his family and lesser time with another. But it is of utmost importance not to quit the other or others altogether, and try as best as they can to maintain the balance.
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The verse 3351 in Arabic clearly mentions "man tasha2ou" literally means "as you (the prophet or messenger) wish/want or the one (that is the wive) you (that is the prophet/messenger) wish/want".
Plus, we are not talking about quitting any wife but about men and sex or intimacy in Quran because Brother Al-Khidr wanted me to quote the verses following the comments I made in my FIRST message. The reasoning above is not consistent with the wisdom in Quran if I understand the above well, so because men are "weak" by nature (and of course not women), so in anticipation, the Quran gives an "ok" to dismiss one wife one night for another becasue of "reasons"... if that was the case, why therefore the verse was not extended to include all men? or was the prophet "weaker" than the rest of the men? or was he the only polygamous man? My point is let us not speculate too much when we are not yet able to understand the core wisdom in these verses and I am sure there is one good reason why the prophet was given that geen light specifically and not all the men because No doubt God is just and fair. Peace. Myr -
Salaam Myr
You have said this
"but if you label people of feminist and radical muslims or of this and that, in order to advance your understanding of the truth, I would consider this an unhealthy debate and I would therefore prefer to withdraw from this debate."
This is exactly the point that I was trying to resectfully raise to you. That right there is basically your personal outlook on the matter but you have to keep in consideration that there are many otheres who wants to hear an uncrompromising truth. There are many others who do not look at it the way you have personally obsorbed her position by associating Zainab's statement with trying "to advance her understanding of truth" as you have commented. If you cannot dispute her position to be false how can you reduce it to 'labeling"? Frankly it is true that there are radical Muslim groups and feminist groups that has strayed from the truth of Allah and promote false notions. Zainab was not absolutely classifying every one on the planet, she was only addressiong a notion of truth which is relative to some groups/peoples/organizations/individuals/etc. etc. etc., Just because you may not like it does not make it wrong and again when we debate we need to break away from this act of 'personlizing' everything. In DEBATE controversy envelopes and things are not going be always said for the liking of everybody and that to is fine, it is part of the natural nature or law of DEBATE. But one thing some people has to understand is that every body is not always going to water down truth, their voice for the desires of some individuals.
Salaam
Salam Brother Al-Khidr,
It has nothing to do about liking or not what Sister Zainab wrote. I think I clearly stated that everyone is entitled to his/her understanding of the issue raised, but if you label people of feminist and radical muslims or of this and that, in order to advance your understanding of the truth, I would consider this an unhealthy debate and I would therefore prefer to withdraw from this debate. I am very much interested in others understanding of verses but not in labels on people whose understanding seems to irritate you.
Ok Brother, I am done with this debate and thank you again for the exchange. Peace.Myr.
Salaam Myr
You have said
"it was you Brother Al-Khidr in reply to my first message who asked me to quote the verses that were addressed to men on sex."
Remember Myr it was you who mentioned it in your first posting in this thread and I asked for those verses so that I can get a better understanding of your perception before I responded. I want to thank you for providing those verses, I just however commented on your points from your first post and so forth.
Now in regards to you not liking Zainab for addressing those groups who have strayed, should not be a problem at all. Why attemptd to control someone's tongue who has no fear and willing to speak the truth. Remember this forum is called "free-minds" and your desires (for what ever reasons) you do not like her expressing herself is in direct contradiction to the label and conept of "free-minds". If you did not like the statement Myr, with all due respect its personal and it should be left as personal because you have to keep in mind there are many many people out here who wants to hear an uncomprising TRUTH. There are many of us who learn that way. If we take the approach where we can speak our mind and take positions etc., and just speak in a manner that makes every one happy, how can we actually grow, how can we actually learn spiritually and intellectually. What Zainab has commented on was very thought provoking, insightful and most of all true
"However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions."
Salaam
Salam Al-Khidr, Zainab,
Salaam Zainab
Very beautiful insight of this subject matter and you have closed with a very powerful statement
However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions.
For those who have interest in this thread its important to stay on topic. The subject of that article is "Women In Paradise"<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
...................................
However .. I'd rather not waver from the main topic, which is, Paradise is not some kind of 'exotic picnic just for men,' a ridiculous violation that's been propagated by certain radical Muslims and various feminist groups for too long. The very truth about the flawlessness of Divine Justice is sufficient ground to discard such absurd notions.I know the subject was and is "women in Paradise". I had no intention to change the subject but just a reminder to you two that it was you Brother Al-Khidr in reply to my first message who asked me to quote the verses that were addressed to men on sex. That you have a different interpretation of the verses, I fully respect that and everyone is entitled to his or her undertanding of the verses to be allegorical or literal or even else, but please for the sake of the All-Mighty let us refrain from pointing at who is feminist and who is radical muslim but just debate the undertanding without labeling. I am fine with your understanding that all these verses are allegories. They are not for me and that should be fine for you so that we can move on without calling labels. Peace. Myr.
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Hello everyone,
I have a question regarding the prophet and his wives. Verse 3351 says
"You may gently shun any one of them, and you may bring closer to you any one of them. If you reconcile with any one you had estranged, you commit no error. In this way, they will be pleased, will have no grief, and will be content with what you equitably offer to all of them. GOD knows what is in your hearts. GOD is Omniscient, Clement.".
My question as commented by Myr is that why did God give the prophet the green light to do whatever he wanted with his wives. I am by no way disrespecting God's decision or the prophet, but if read from the point of view of today's modern person, doesn't what Myr said seem true - that God did give Muhammed the green light to do whatever he wanted with his wives? I am just wondering.
God be praised.
Salaams .. this exact query has been discussed further up along this thread.
Also, this thread is about women's status in Paradise, not man / wife relationship on earth which is a very different matter from the main theme of brother al-Khidr's original article. InshAllah, if or when we may start a new thread on this subject, we could again take up this issue in still greater detail with precise Quraanic quotes from various chapters, preceding and following verse 3351.
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Thats stories was not telling the next and uknown paradise, but teliing a allegoric pleasures for men in the heaven i.e. in the kingdom of god - in the earth - whereby the prophets rules the worlds.
Zauja = is spouse not mandatory as wife but can be spouse of leader and his people.
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Salaam
I believe these are three beautiful verses
Qur'aan 3021-"Among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other. He places in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are signs for people who think.
Qur'aan 3332-"You shall not covet the qualities bestowed upon each other by Allah; the men enjoy certain qualities, and the women enjoy certain qualities. You may implore Allah to shower you with His grace. Allah is fully aware of all things.
Qur'aan 3195-"Their Lord responded to them "I never fail to reward any worker among you for your work, be you male or female; you are EQUAL to one another...
Salaam
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Salaam
I believe these are three beautiful verses
Qur'aan 3021-"Among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other. He places in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are signs for people who think.
Qur'aan 3332-"You shall not covet the qualities bestowed upon each other by Allah; the men enjoy certain qualities, and the women enjoy certain qualities. You may implore Allah to shower you with His grace. Allah is fully aware of all things.
Qur'aan 3195-"Their Lord responded to them "I never fail to reward any worker among you for your work, be you male or female; you are EQUAL to one another...
Salaam
Wa salaam, no_shirk. Nice to see you join this thread. Yes .. indeed these verses are beautiful. Thanks ..
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not that i disagree waleed, but how do you know what a soul is? have you seen it?
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If you think Paradise is a pleasant place for moslems after death, you will have endless and unsoved discussions
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If you have bothered to read my title, given to me by the mighty queen Elke, you should know that I'm not to be messed with.
D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D
D
Hi Phoenix, I think you misunderstood Elke, I think she meant she would change her nickname if she was you, because you change your nick frequently, not that you should change yours D
Anyway, Elke and that nick are incompatile, as two totally opposite things D , while it would suit much better to the author of it.
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LOL so that is why phoenix1 changed his name rotfl
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Peace all. What do the gay people in paradise get,men or women....?