QURANIC FOLKLORE
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Peace All
Lets not underestimate people of the past they have come up with a lot stuff that is hard to explain even now .
Ahmed Just before you start labelling me in your 2006 profiler I believe it is important to ask questions and not to follow any thing blindly , some times answers are not as appealing as we might like but thats life, but that gives no reason to call each other infidel or heathen .
Peace Salim
Mate if the Quran calls them as such, I will call them as such
I'm sorry I donlt fear the people
However I carry no hard feelings to anyone whatsoever on this earth
Salam
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Lets not underestimate people of the past they have come up with a lot stuff that is hard to explain even now .
Peace bro
I don?t understand what you mean mate, do you mean it was known about the dark sea in the old days?
Fine bro, can you please prove it, or do you want me to follow you blindly?
Well I?m not following anyone blindly, it is a common fact that diving to deep seas started about 70 to 100 years from now, not bloody 1400 years ago
Can you please get me a logical refute, not an emotional one?, cheers
Ahmed Just before you start labelling me in your 2006 profiler I believe it is important to ask questions and not to follow any thing blindly ,
Sure anyone can ask questions, and I have no problem with that, but Danish is not one of those, Danish is here to take as many with him to the hell fire so what I?m doing is trying to help those who will fell preys to his deceptions, lies fabrications and manipulations, logically speaking according to the Quran, I?m doing a noble act, on the contrary can you please prove to me that Danish is doing a noble act on a Quran based forum?
I may believe that Magi is one who is asking sincere questions and I will be happy to try and answer his questions with respect inshaallah but I really doubt that this is his intensions, Allah only knows
Salam
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Peace Ahmed
What I am saying is that knowledge is not some thing new to our generation , and I was not even talking about dark seas or asking you to follow me blindly .
Please do not worry about me going to Hell because of Danish ,If I go to hell IT will be because of the decisions ?I? have made and not because of something or some one.
I have seen people come and go from this forum I have seen it grow from a couple of us ,to hundreds ,The like of Danish have come and gone he has an opinion and his opinion should be heard that?s what makes this forum what it is.
Peace Salim
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Peace Ahmed
Peace bro
What I am saying is that knowledge is not some thing new to our generation , and I was not even talking about dark seas or asking you to follow me blindly .
Ok, I misunderstood you then, sorry
Please do not worry about me going to Hell because of Danish ,
I'm not worried about specific individuals, I'm talking general on a public Islamic forum, where many us to spread their poisons, if it was not an Islamic forum then I don't give a fluke really, or I may if I'm interested
If I go to hell IT will be because of the decisions ?I? have made and not because of something or some one.
I guess many goes by following others especially their parents, I believe the Quran talked about this specific incident that the misguided will ask from Allah to double the punishment of those who misguided them, I know what I;m talking about bro
I have seen people come and go from this forum I have seen it grow from a couple of us ,to hundreds ,The like of Danish have come and gone
they go when the fail, some insist on their deceptions to humajity despite being responded to many times by many here, they are here not to learn rather to spread posion and me as a Muslim have to act positive against them not in a negative manner, they are the ones who are attacking the Quran and I'm the one who is defending it therefore they are the pertpetrators not me
now regarding opinions, fine, everyone is entitled to it, but on this forum where they cause further and uneeded confusion to the already confused muslims, I just can't take that, i'm here more for the likes of Danish not really to teach my brothers and sisters the Quran, I'm not a Quran teacher, I'm a student like all those who want to learn it properly
he has an opinion and his opinion should be heard that?s what makes this forum what it is.
Peace Salim
Heard once, twice, not bloody zillions of times to make sure the posion is very well inserted in the minds of the naive ones
I'm going to continue what I do bro and if the forum owner or admins not happy they can easily kick me out and I will respect that
Salam bro
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Peace Bro Magi
You said
Never take anyones word up on anything. If you are in doubt stick to what you know. And this is not snide or anything, but history is a field i feel its important to make up your own mind, because we are not dealing with facts, but what people from a looong time ago tells us are facts, and often they do not agree with eachother, or we have only access to part of their writings.
This is very good advice. I believe you are a person of understanding, so I took your word as information of value until I get the time to do some more research for my own knowledge. But in general, I agree with you - we should always reach our own conclusions on any issue, especially history.
While this research is factual to me best knowledge, i dont think many realise that in ancient egypt things wasnt as streanmlined as sold to us. The differencs in traditions, names and stories are very broad and differed from one area to another. Just like i suspect the ancient arabs to have been, with a pantheon of different gods, and a process of borrowing them from eachother.
Yes, I agree. I've recently read of the goddess Bis (depicted as a cat) whose temple was in Northern Egypt and whose worshippers were in Southern Egypt. Every year, in commemoration of this goddess, her patrons would travel the Nile, and in each town would show the people of that town their veneration for this particular goddess by drinking and dancing. The visiting women would go into dance competitions with the women in the town to prove what their love for Bis can do for them to try and bring them along for the festivities in the temple. It sounded to me like some kind of keg party D
Anyway, yes i agree ;DAnd He it is Who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all (orbs) travel along swiftly in their celestial spheres.
"problem" is that this says the earth is center. only within very recent years have we realised that the sun has an orbit. Or rather, the whole solar system has an orbit, all the planets have a 2nd larger orbit it takes 26.000 yeras to complete. Im not saying it couldnt be a refference to this, but i doubt it because even tho these astrologers where brilliant at figuring out things out, most of them belived that the earth was center and that the moon and sun floated in their orbits around it.
With all due respect, I don't find any reference to the earth at all in the above verse. The verse specifically deals with the sun and the moon so I don't know how you get that inference from that verse.
I understand why Danish takes the stand that he does. Because i too think the Quran says 2 things. As if 2 different stories from different "groups" was collected and brought together, perhaps to bring them together, but this is mere speculation on my behalf.
I don't see this schism of 2 ideas being oddly mashed together in one book. Please provide for me some examples.
That would make the reading quite odd and non-sensical, if that were the case.ALtso my own relationship with the Quran is that its full of good advice worth paying attention to, unlike most other scriptures. And it has been my guide all the way, and it still serves as such when im in doubt. but this doesnt mean i dont question it, nor do i delute myself into thinking that the realg God, the creator God throws books at us.
I'm very happy to hear that, brother! I also believe we are supposed to question things but only in the spirit of trying to gain knowledge. Surely, God does not throw books at us. Making the revelations into a book was a human invention. just as it would be easier to write many important numbers down rather than just memorizing it.
. But people can realise Gods truths, and these people can write them down, and some did. thank God.
If we all had to figure out all this stuff, we wouldnt ahve time for anything else.Aah here is where we differ I think. I believe they really were directly revealed in exact form to the messengers, and not just a truthful philosophy that someone wrote down and just so happens to coincide with God's Laws and Truth.
as for the story of dul, i dont udnerstand the morals of it, i dont know who its talking about, i cant find out who its talking about and alexander seems a thin explanation just like that, so in other words. It has no practical implication on my life, and as such i dont care about it. Ok, so some guy had something happen to him...thats good, but hardly valuable for my salvation.
I once read somewhere on this forum that dul-qarnein was actually a natural disaster. If i remember correctly, i think it was a volcano. i'll try to find that thread and post it here as i think it has some relevence to this thread as well.
Peace All
P.S. I found it. It wasn't Dul-Qarnein but rather Gog and Magog that were the natural disasters. Here's the link
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=621.0
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peace
Hehe good one with the keg party. Much of the stuff we know as relegion started as a keg party. You could get killed if you look in the holies of holies where they kept the mana. Do you know why?
With all due respect, I don't find any reference to the earth at all in the above verse. The verse specifically deals with the sun and the moon so I don't know how you get that inference from that verse.
The observer point. The book is adressed to an observer, that obviously does not view the moving orbs from the planet mars or jupiter. It tell the observer, of the orbs as another sign, and it tells the observer that both the moon and the sun runs in orbits. This is a very, very good observation made that long ago. It just not entirely correct. thats my take on it.
I don't see this schism of 2 ideas being oddly mashed together in one book. Please provide for me some examples.
That would make the reading quite odd and non-sensical, if that were the case.Dont drink alcohol (unless you are from a people of understanding). This is just like kiss hanks ass. A brililant example of the skewed logic of a relegious mindset. If you dont know the story, go and look it up, its very short. And then i can give you very concrete examples of what i mean from the book itself.
Speaking of Gog and Magog. Magog is the lodge brother name for Bush(Sr.). Or rather its a title of "honour" they can get in his lodge. For what i dont know.
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Peace Bro
You could get killed if you look in the holies of holies where they kept the mana. Do you know why?
LOL oh is that where they kept their stash? Funny stuff
The observer point. The book is adressed to an observer, that obviously does not view the moving orbs from the planet mars or jupiter. It tell the observer, of the orbs as another sign, and it tells the observer that both the moon and the sun runs in orbits. This is a very, very good observation made that long ago. It just not entirely correct. thats my take on it.
That is a very good point and could be a possiblity. It is an inference - that is it is not a point known from just reading the text directly. Other inferences could also be true. Just because the text refers to the sun and moon running in orbits doesn't mean that the author did not know that the earth is also in orbit. You're assuming that the author was a person and that's how your inference becomes logical. But take away this assumption and the inference is no longer valid. But even if we are to take out the issue of the earth running in an orbit, there is still the issue of how the author knew that the sun and moon run in orbits. How is it possible that people with such primitive technology could make such a lucky guess?
Dont drink alcohol (unless you are from a people of understanding). This is just like kiss hanks ass. A brililant example of the skewed logic of a relegious mindset. If you dont know the story, go and look it up, its very short. And then i can give you very concrete examples of what i mean from the book itself.
LOL I just finished reading the story. I think the story left out alot in the actual deal we have. First of all, the quran isn't the end-all be-all. We receive revelations all the time if we've developed our intellect enough to listen. I'm sure you have experienced this in your life before. Secondly, "Hank" doesn't want us to kiss his ass or else he'll kick the shit out of us. The story says that he wants us to have the million dollars but he can't until you kiss his ass. But if that were the case, then anyone who disbelieves in "Hank" would be poor and destitute. "Hank" appears to be alot more Merciful and Gracious than the story claims him to be.
Also, there is no complete prohibition on alcohol in the quran. Please show me the verse because I've never heard of it. I haven't heard of any contradiction regarding the issue of alcohol in the quran, but if it's there let's discuss it.
I'd love to see some of your examples if you don't mind.Speaking of Gog and Magog. Magog is the lodge brother name for Bush(Sr.). Or rather its a title of "honour" they can get in his lodge. For what i dont know.
Aaah yes I've read about that! a Bona fide prediction in the quran right there there's Magog in the flesh I guess Magog isn't a natural disaster after all .. well all depends on how you look at Bush ;D
Peace All
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Hello All
Zul-Qarnain saw them ? he saw the sun set in a murky water, nothing wrong with that.
Something IS wrong with that. It is the wrong literal translation. It is sad nobody paid attention to this statement "the sun set in murky water". That's not how it should be said. It should be "the sun set, reflecting on murky water"; or at least "by murky water".
I only paid attention to this translation when I was reading the infamous comic book, where this verse was being mocked and above it a caricature with the sun setting "in" a pool of murky waters. I asked some native speakers (of English language) what they would understand if I said "the sun sets in the lake". All of them agreed that it meant "inside the lake"; of course after they were surprised why I would utter such nonesense!!
So while you (Ahmed) are honestly and feverishly trying to expalin this, for them (those you are replying to) you do not see any wrong with the sun "setting inside the murky water".
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Peace Sis Samia
I think this is the main issue of the debate. Some have taken this as a literal meaning, meaning that the sun set inside the water while others take it as an expression.
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Peace S2S
I do not claim that I have read all the tafsirs, but the few I read did not take this erronic meaning. In fact, the Arabic version says , a normal Arabic expression
- Tafseer Ar-raazi a.Waters of the west seas is hot, so the sun looks as if itis setting in hot waters; b. according to Algiba'i, the waters were dark and it looked murky.
- Alkashaf Same thing.
Both tafseers discuss whether it was "murky" water or "hot" water, nothing about the setting per se.
I could not see explicit understanding of (in (aka inside) murky waters ) except in Altabary quoting Ka3b (Ala7baar) who said You know Qur'aan better than me, but I see in the book (torah) that it sets in black mud!!!
So, this distorted understanding comes from Ka3b, quoted in Altabary!!!
Talk about Israeliyyaat!!