GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
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Peace Anwar
Please be aware that verbs CAN'T be ommitted in the Arabic langugaes, only names or their Damirs refering to these names
Cheers
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Peace Ahmed,
I know you understand that the verb to be is a very special case. I'm not talking about all verbs. I'm talking about the verb to be. It can be ommitted where in English it is never admitted, except in certain English dialects. And like in Arabic it is only omitted in the present tense, in very clear cut connections like 'that dog (is) smart.'
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace brother Anwar
Mate as far as I know words and verbs can't be ommitted, only damirs can
if you ommitt a verb then the grammar will be broken
I understand what you mean when we say The dog (is) smart, in arabic we will say Kalbun Zakyun, where it will contitute a "Muptdaa and Khabar" or a noun and an adjective, if you add the verb to be then we will have a totally different structure "Al Kalb Yakoon Zakia", it makes no sense bro gramaticlly
Take care
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Peace Anwar
but when we deal with senstences for Irab we have to state the ommited words, in the case of "Kalbun Zakiu" in Irab though we will not mention the vern to be as ommitted at all, you may consider it virtually ommitted in the case of present to be because it makes no sense as past tense, but we don't mention this in Irab
Cheers
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So if we both agree that the verb 'to be' can be ommitted, then why are you disagreeing with me? Or are you? It seems like you want to emphasize that verbs can't be omitted in Arabic, and I agree with that. But there is one special case which is the verb 'to be.' The verb 'to be' can be omitted despite the fact that there is an adverb to modify it like in the sentences I gave to Samia. So are we in agreement or what? And why does it seem like you are disagreeing with me if we both agree on the verb 'to be;' and that this verb (and only this verb from what I know) can be ommitted?
Godbless,
Anwar -
So if we both agree that the verb 'to be' can be ommitted, then why are you disagreeing with me? Or are you? It seems like you want to emphasize that verbs can't be omitted in Arabic, and I agree with that. But there is one special case which is the verb 'to be.' The verb 'to be' can be omitted despite the fact that there is an adverb to modify it like in the sentences I gave to Samia. So are we in agreement or what? And why does it seem like you are disagreeing with me if we both agree on the verb 'to be;' and that this verb (and only this verb from what I know) can be ommitted?
Godbless,
AnwarPeace bro
the issue is far more complicated than this bro and to be honest I agree that a present to be can be ommitted but this is just virtually known not a common rule in grammar that suggest that
also I discovered a mistake that I have done, in the order verbs you mentioned "Itaqun" and "Irahabun" and the one I brough in "Ibidun", i said that the Ya must be ommitted because Order verb with "Harf Al Illah" must be mabbiah ala hazf harf al illah", however I checked the grammar books I had and I was wrong, because the Ya that suppose to be at the end is "Ya Al Mukhtaba", i.e. "Ya of the speech", so all order verbs must be Mabniah ala hazf Ya Al Mukhatabah
now I hope you don't hold this against me as you did before, and as you can see that I always correct myself if others failed to do as such, i.e. I corner myself
but as I said before I was good in arabic up to about 19 years old then from there all my study was in engnieering and not the languages and that is 22 years mate so my memory my fail me that is why I bought those 3 grammar books, one of them is actually charts only to explain how the grammar workd with the Arabic words, I can photo copy it and send it to you if you wish, it is like a referenece
Salam
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Peace,
This still does not solve the fact that not all instances of this have the 'ya' taken away. There are instances where the command is a ya and instances where it is just a kasrah. Go back to the posts I posted for Samia to see these instances.
Secondly, please don't complicate the matter by saying that it is more complicate. This is an Arabic rule and the verb to be is only put in when it is in subjunctive form, conditioan form or for emphasis. It is really not that complicated.
Godbless,
anwar -
Salaam all
so all order verbs must be Mabniah ala hazf Ya Al Mukhatabah
I would like to clarify something here.
The grammar "i3raab" affects the verb, but not the prefixes. The verb is, e.g, ya3buduun, the command form, which is "mabnii 3ala aljazm by ommitting nuun of the group" will be a3buduu . To this verb is added the suffixed pronoun (the object, or maf3uul bihi) which is the ya, which in turn is mabniyya 3alaa alsukuun. Now we have two consucutive sukuuns the yaa and the alif at the end of "a3buduu", so an extra nuun is inserted between them to prevent the coexistance of two jauxtapositioned sukuuns. This nuun is called (the nuun of protection) .
The elimination of the yaa almukhataba is not grammar, but style, common in Arabic.
As for verb to be, the grammar changes according to its presence or absence, as well as the meaning. It is usually there when it is in the past or indicating future
Notice how the case ending of changes with the presence or absence of verb (to be). I suppose that is what I see as a problem with
Since "ramadan" has a final fat7a, and if we are avoiding making this mudaaf and mudaaf elayhi, then there must be . The question is can we drop ? Is it permissible in Arabic? I do not think so. -
Brother Anwar
There is no need to go back and forth, I think Samia responded well that Shahr Ramadan with a missing "Yakun" does not make sense because verb to be can't be dropped otherwise we have a totally different structure of the sentence, she provided a good example with "Al Jaw Jamil" which in Irab is Mubtadaa and Khabar and both Marfuh Bi Al Dummah, if Kana or Yakun is there, then the first two examples we will have new structure, Kana needs an Ism and a Khabar, therefore Al Jaw will be Ism Kana and will stay Marfuh Bi Al Dummah while Jamil can't be Marfuh Bi Al Dummah any more as in the case of "No verb to be", with with verb to be the Khabar must be Mansub Bi Alfatiha and as you can see in the 3 examples, the first 2 "Jamil" have an Alif at the end "Alif Al Madd" because it is Mansub Bi Al Fatiha", the last "Jamil" is Marfuh Bi Al Dammah
Salam
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Ahmed,
If you think I'm being stubborn or responding to Samia for the heck of it without true intentions, then thanks for the suggestion. But I'm not so you don't have to worry about that. It would be an injustice to not help Samia understand what I am saying, so I am going to respond to her to help her understand exactly where I am coming from, which it seems like she hasn't seen exactly. It honestly sounds like you are just trying to shut me up and I really don't appreciate that. But I will assume that you have the best intentions. Peace.
Dear Samia,
The conclusion and grammar of what I am saying is in the followoing sentence
Isti'daadan huwa jayyidun
or
Huwa isti'daadan jayyidun
or
huwa jayyidun isti'daadan.
The nasb is nasbul-haalati. Which is what I stated to you before. All nasbul-haalati are adverbs in English terms and in the above case it is modifying the verb to be in present tense, which in Arabic is ommitted, and not thought of as a verb in present tense (not future using ghadan with yakoon makes it a present tense verb that projects into the future). I don't want to get into an argument about how verbs aren't ommited in Arabic like Ahmed trying to insist. 99.999 percent of the verbs are not in ommitted in Arabic and the verb to be (when it is in present tense) is part of the .00001 percent.
(future and present tense actually over lap in Classical Arabic and in all languages to varying degrees)
When you say 'ghadan yakoonul-jawwu jameelan' that shows that you are talking about the future, and not the present. You probably don't think of the concept of 'to be' in the present tense which is why you are having trouble with this. It is the same as 'the weather IS pretty today' but in Arabic you would say 'the weather (is) pretty today' and the verb to be 'is' is ommitted from an English perspective, but from a purely Cl. Arabic perspective there never was a verb to be there, and the verb 'to be' only comes into play in the future, past, subjunctive or conditional tenses.
To take your words and help you to understand what I am saying I am going to add 'al-yawmu and (note that this is not al-yawma)
Al-Yawmu jameelun jawwan
or
al-yawmu jawwan jameelun
Notice that jaww is not an adjective but it is a strictly a noun. So differing from jameelan, which is an adjective in the nasb case, nouns in the nasb case set the stage for the condition of the sentence or statement. Even though the verb 'to be' in Arabic doesnt exist in the present tense, from an English persepctive, jawwan, just like the use of Isti'daadan before are both modifying the ommitted present tense verb 'to be'.
This, and especially the second is the case of 'sharun ramdaanan lalladhee . . .'
Godbless,
Anwar -
Ahmed,
If you think I'm being stubborn or responding to Samia for the heck of it without true intentions, then thanks for the suggestion. But I'm not so you don't have to worry about that. It would be an injustice to not help Samia understand what I am saying, so I am going to respond to her to help her understand exactly where I am coming from, which it seems like she hasn't seen exactly. It honestly sounds like you are just trying to shut me up and I really don't appreciate that. But I will assume that you have the best intentions. Peace.
Peace mate
well bro, what you said above never ever came to my mind, i was just providing extra info, that's all
i will read the rest later bro, got a lot to do
Salam
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I'm guessing that either you guys agree with me, are thinking about it or just don't want to deal with the issue. It could be any of the three but I would appreciate an honest answer like "I'm not ready to deal with that" or "I just can't agree" or "it make sense" . . .
Godbless,
Anwar -
Hey Anwar
I have been very busy bro, but will invistigate later, just a quick question bro, is there any 5 letters roots in Arabic and if there is can you give us a couple of examples?
cheers
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You know they are really rare. They only go up to 4 letters mostly and then if they have an alif in front of them they are only derivatives of the four letter roots examples
taw, meem, hamza, noon (tawm-ah-na)
alif, taw, meem, hamza, noon (it-ma-ah-nna)Iqsha&arra.
But franqa&a is a root that is 5 letters.
fa, ra, noon, qaf, &ain. It means 'to go a way, to get out'. (Ifranqa&a)
This is the only one that I can remember. My teacher told me this one.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Thanks bro
How about "Izdahar", "Ikhtasha"?
cheers
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Your welcome,
No these do not have 5 letters in their roots. Izdahara comes from zahara and is the form ifti&aal. The taa changes to a 'da' because of the zaa. Same with ikhtashaa, it is from khashaya an is the form ifti&aal as well.
So you do you have no opinion or any other questions on the ground-breaking topic?
Godbless,
Anwar -
Your welcome,
No these do not have 5 letters in their roots. Izdahara comes from zahara and is the form ifti&aal. The taa changes to a 'da' because of the zaa. Same with ikhtashaa, it is from khashaya an is the form ifti&aal as well.
So you do you have no opinion or any other questions on the ground-breaking topic?
Godbless,
AnwarPeace Anwar
Mate Izdahar has nothiinthing to do with flowering, it actually means "Blossomed", for example we can say the business Izdahar, i.e. the gusiness blossomed, WE CAN SAY THE BUSINESS AZHAR, it makes no sense
see why there 5 letters root, to diffrentiat between words that almost have the same letters
bro I have my arabic grammar book and I gor this example from it, I'm no manipulator bro
I will photo copy the lage and post it on monday Inshallah
for Ikhtasha, again the Ta is vital to make this 5 letters root with a titally different meaning to Ikhsha
another example is Igtamaa, the two is required to give the meaninfg that someone had a meeting with others, if you say Igmaa with that Ta then it means somthing else wich is to collect
see how the root differntiate the words meaning so confusing does not arise
for your thread I will try to have another look bro, sorry I nget bored quick and I have zillio0ns of things to do but you can aske me any further questiion on a PM I guess I still have one PM to reply to you, sorry
Salam
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Salaam all
I'm guessing that either you guys agree with me, are thinking about it or just don't want to deal with the issue. It could be any of the three but I would appreciate an honest answer like "I'm not ready to deal with that" or "I just can't agree" or "it make sense" . . .
Godbless,
AnwarMy apologies. my honest answer is that there are two issues in your post grammatical and sementical. I have no problem with the the latter (if you mean a hot shahr). It is the formal I am trying to deal with.
Isti'daadan huwa jayyidun
or
Huwa isti'daadan jayyidun
or
huwa jayyidun isti'daadan.
Al-Yawmu jameelun jawwanor
al-yawmu jawwan jameelun
In all these examples (they are actually two main ones) the adjective i (jayyid; jameel) is in the nominative (marfouu3), whereas we have in your control sentence (rammadana) in the accusative "manSuub). If you think that I still do not get it, can you please give me your translation (one literal and one meaaningful) for "shahrun ramadana"?
Salaam Ahmed
Mate Izdahar has nothiinthing to do with flowering, it actually means "Blossomed",
Do you really mean that or there is a typo?
for Ikhtasha,...........another example is Igtamaa
Do you notice a pattern in these three verbs (the third being izdahara)? I think you mix between pattern and root. Verbs (and words ingeneral) derived from the same root have different patterns and do not mean exactly the same meaning, but their meaning is related to the meaning of the root. E.g
jama3a to collect; ijtama3a to meet; tajamma3a to gather, jamme3 all; tajammu3 gathering; jam3iyya group-organization; mujtama3 society; jum3a gathering. Root for all the above words (and maybe more) ja ma 3a, giving the meaning of plural, or more than one.
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Salaam Ahmed
Mate Izdahar has nothiinthing to do with flowering, it actually means "Blossomed",
Do you really mean that or there is a typo?
Salam Samia
There was a typo for sure however yes I mean Izdahara means blosom, Azhar means to flower, we can say the economy izdaharit but we can't say the economy azharit
That is why we have 5 letters root "Masddar" that will be the origin of some words
i.e. the masddar for the noun "Izdihaar" is the past tense 5 letters root "Izdahara"
same with Igtamaa
for Ikhtasha,...........another example is Igtamaa
Do you notice a pattern in these three verbs (the third being izdahara)?
yeh sure, it is called wazn and all 5 letters root musddars are on the same wazn
I think you mix between pattern and root.
no i'm not, it can't be while I was taught arabic since I was a baby, any arabic word even root has pattern "wazn"
Verbs (and words ingeneral) derived from the same root have different patterns and do not mean exactly the same meaning, but their meaning is related to the meaning of the root. E.g
never heard of that really, but I know this is just an easy entry to the non arabic speakers who want to learn Arabic, the Arabic language is far deeper than this flawed root method that you guys make every word as a three letters root and from that you drive the meaning, total non sense if you ask me
jama3a to collect; ijtama3a to meet; tajamma3a to gather, jamme3 all; tajammu3 gathering; jam3iyya group-organization; mujtama3 society; jum3a gathering. Root for all the above words (and maybe more) ja ma 3a, giving the meaning of plural, or more than one.
So?, the above does not change the fact that the noun Igtimaa "Meeting" is driven from the the 5 root past tense masddar "Igtamaa"
Salam