IS THE MULTI-FAITH CONCEPT COMPATIBLE WITH ISLAMIC VALUES?
-
As Salaamu Alaykum Alpha and Alen
First I want to thank you Alen for the information that you have provided here and the things that you have pointed out.
Alpha, Alen and I have asked you about this quote that you identified as a wise. I thought it was comedy that you want to conceal the identity or person behind that quote. An approach llike that makes the source suspect. There must be something wrong with that source (quote that you used who you said was wise). Below is what you have said when I or we asked who is this mysterious wise?
?That does not matter, If we agree with him whoever he might be and if we disagree whoever he is. In reality an awakened heart filters things out. Hears what is right and expels what is wrong!?
See Alpha you are dealing with Muslims who do not recognize blind faith, so information like that would be very much important (for a lot of reasons) why we and others would like to know the name of that mysterious persons whom you quote and identify as wise. How do we know he is not a Jinn? Shaytaan will say things that is truth and sounds very logical because such attempted would be designed to win the confidence of YOU (plural) and after he (Shaytaan) wins our confidence then he will introduce falsehood to take us of the straight path, so the person behind anything is very important.
Alpha are you into Sufism?
I notice that you have a way of talk that is mystical. You talk in a mystical way that goes around in circles with no continuity, no end. We Muslims are into mathematics/facts/evidence/logic/reasoning as Allah wants us to be (1736; 3918; 2111; 16125)
When you said, ?The greatest book of all is the Book of creation?, I hope that you meant the Qur?aan and if not which book are you referring to?
?The greatest book of all is the THE BOOK of creation . BUT THAT BOOK ALSO CAN NOT GUIDE UNLESS ONE GETS STRAIGHT FROM INSIDE FIRST."
When you said this
?IF ONE FIRST ATTENDS HER OWN SOUL, THEN THE ALMIGHTY HAS TAKEN CARE OF THE REST THAT YOU WILL BE PRESENTED WITH MANY MANY SOURCES OF GUIDANCE!?
I hope that many many source of guidance that you are talking about is Islaam?
Alpha why didn?t you answer my question when I asked you if you believe that all religions stems from the same Divine Source (Allah) or that you believe that Allah only revealed one religion or way of life called Islaam, which is the subject of this thread?
Salaam
-
As Salaamu Alaykum massive online terrist or I meant to say phoenix1
I have come to realize that you are not a critical reader. You points below have already been answered in this thread. In my last quote I have said
Alpha why didn?t you answer my question when I asked you if you believe that all religions stems from the same Divine Source (Allah) or that you believe that Allah only revealed one religion or way of life called Islaam, which is the subject of this thread?
Notice I said "religion or way of life". You are not saying anything no body knows.
Notice you also said
"no matter what group/label you belong to, as long as you do good things you are a believer."
Again this point has been answered in this thread. Alpha one has used a Chinese as an example and said if that person has not came across the Qur'aan he still can make it to Paradise. I told him that I agree, if he was not exposed to the Qur'aan and lived a righteous life he will make it to Paradise. But this is seperate and apart from the original research of this thread which is that Allah, not I, but again Allah has said that Islaam is the only religion or way of life (Deen), so therefore Muslims who make the claim that all religions are from Allah contradicts the very Book they stand one. We all don't want to compromise the teaching of Islaam right?
Salaam
Peace
Islam is not a religion.
And the Quran makes it clear that no matter what group/label you belong to, as long as you do good things you are a believer.
peace -
Peace Al-Khidr, all,
Thank you for the thought-provoking article, and I applaud the civility of this discourse.
You mentioned in your dialogue with alpha that he was getting into semantics. I wonder if our understanding of the semantics being used here are actually succinct. Please clarify if I am misunderstanding the following
This issue trumpeting ?all faiths teach the same values? or ?all religions are good? has been going on for long. After a careful analysis, I am of the opinion that this concept is only partly true, NOT entirely. It is no doubt correct that the ethical values of all faiths are similar. But that cannot be said in regard to their spiritual aspects. For instance, all religions profess that it is wrong to steal, to kill, to be dishonest, to commit adultery or fornication, to be unkind to parents, relatives, neighbours and humanity in general, etc. etc. All such issues make up the ethical side of every faith and may have a high degree of uniformity. However, all faiths do not portray the same ideology about God, and this constitutes its spiritual/religious side. Concerning spiritual and religious notions, Islam is different and is the final word for all those who adhere to the Qur'aan. The Glorious Qur?aan clearly mentions that we ought to follow only the path shown by Allah. If we follow other guidelines, we run the risk of being parted from His way.
You mention that religion's portrayal of the ideology of God constitutes religion's spiritual side. Yet you do not describe how this is achieved. I disagree wholehearedly because ideology by definition is the work of the mind, not the soul. For instance, christians don't come to understand their trinity concept through meditation but through indoctrination. Same with buddhists, hindus, jews, and even muslims. Attributes of God are taught to the mind from other minds, and this is the jist of "ideology of God".
My understanding of what alpha was describing is that the spiritual aspect of one's deen does not and can not come from any book. The book(s) can only be regarded as maps or signs pointing the way, but the way itself is one of personal contemplation in transcendence of mind-speak leading to a spiritual understanding of God.
Thus, when al-qur'an describes that what we have in our hands is the same that was given to nuh, musa, ibrahim, and isa, it must be concluded that the maps and signs weren't identical, but the source they pointed to is the same.
What verification via logic, reason, etc. accomplishes is not the grasping of the spiritual, but the filtering out of the non-sensical.
Peace,
Tay -
Wa Laykum As Salaam Tay
I believe you raised a question pertaining to this statement
?However, all faiths do not portray the same ideology about God, and this constitutes its spiritual/religious side.?
This is basically on the subject matter at hand that Allah only revealed one religion and not several different religions so that is why the statement is the way it is, its basically self explanatory, that all religions do not have the same ideologies which also transcends into their spiritual/religious side of that religion that is man-made out side of Al Islaam.
Now I noticed that you said this and you also included Muslims in your example as well
?For instance, christians don't come to understand their trinity concept through meditation but through indoctrination. Same with buddhists, hindus, jews, and even muslims. Attributes of God are taught to the mind from other minds, and this is the jist of "ideology of God"
One thing I would like to comment on was that I agree that the false dogmas such as the trinity, Jesus being God, reincarnation, etc. etc. are indoctrinations of man. However I recognize Islaam as the total truth from the Source of all that exist ALLAH, so on the other hand I totally reject your ?belief system? of the awareness of the existence of Allah, Islaam is something that is merely conceived from the mind of a mortal and I believe this is what you are saying and if you are not saying that please correct me. I believe that the reality of Allah exist and that reality is not diminished to atheistic forms of ?belief systems? who claim that reality (Allah, The Creator) originate from the mind of man and man-made ideologies. I believe that man-made doctrines stems from the men and I believe this is what you are diminishing the Creator to when you said this
?Attributes of God are taught to the mind from other minds, and this is the jist of "ideology of God?
I believe the consciousnesses of Allah, the nature of Islaam are naturally endowed in man and woman from birth and that many on the planet have deviated from that truth/reality/their natural nature through indoctrinations of men that occurs under the laws of ?free will?. I do not synonymously equate the reality of Allah and His TRUTH with the man-made-innovations, false concepts of man, etc.
You have said this
?My understanding of what alpha was describing is that the spiritual aspect of one's deen does not and can not come from any book. The book(s) can only be regarded as maps or signs pointing the way, but the way itself is one of personal contemplation in transcendence of mind-speak leading to a spiritual understanding of God.?
When you said this, ?My understanding of what alpha was describing is that the spiritual aspect of one's deen does not and can not come from any book.? On the contrary Allah told us that He revealed His Book (Qur?aan) as guidance. Many people try to make the claim that it?s only in the heart/its only a personal journey etc. and we really do not need any books. But many people who talk that talk sometimes have a wicked intent to disregard and remove us from following Allah?s Holy Book (Al Qur?aan). Now I have not concluded that with Alpha nor you but time will tell and expose such intentions from anybody. I am very skeptical when people approach others with that philosophy. I have provided several verses in Al Qur?aan where Allah tells us that we are to believe/have faith in as well as observe or follow Al Qur?aan. It is more deeper then what you two are diminishing this to. Now if no one has a Qur?aan, then that situation is a different story. But since we have it and it?s the total TRUTH from the Creator we are suppose to follow it instead of adhering to philosophies that preaches
-The Qur?aan) to just a Book.
-And that we don?t really need it/we do not really need to follow it because it?s in the heart.
-It (the Qur?aan) only serves as road maps etc. etc. etc.
Now, Tay another question for you is if our spiritual aspect of one?s Deen does not come from a Book as you have said, then how did you come to Islaam that is if you are a Muslim-Did Allah speak to you out of the sky, help me get a clearer understanding of your insight?
In my response to Alpha I said we need Allah?s guidance and we also need the guidance of the Holy Qur?aan. Man is finite we make & create error/confusion, but the Holy Qur?aan is an infallible Book from the Creator, which is here to keep us on the straight path, it is here for guidance, We are suppose to follow it from now until the Day of Judgment, so the Holy Qur?aan is much more then just for a road map. It is here for us to observe from now until the Day of Judgment. It is a Book that makes a distinction from falsehood and that of truth, the Qur?aan is evidence, not blind faith from The Creator.
I notice that you have said this
?but the way itself is one of personal contemplation in transcendence of mind-speak leading to a spiritual understanding of God.?
First of all every body in different religions make that same principal claim but yet they all ended up in different religions which all contradicts one another. And another things that I want to add to your statement up above is that in such journey that you have described, what will help that journey is for one to do research, study, seek knowledge, evidence, facts, proof in addition to seeking guidance in Allah, so that our personal journey will not be a journey of blind faith. Allah repeatedly tells us in so many ways to seek knowledge and evidence
Qur?aan 1736
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.Qur?aan 3918
They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom Allah has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.In Qur?aan 2111 addresses the Jews and Christians when they make this foolish claim that they are the only ones who will enter Paradise and Allah tells us in the Holy Qur?aan to ask them to show/bring/produce their proof
Qur?aan 2111
They said, ?No one will enter Paradise unless they be a Jew or a Christian!? Such is their wishful thinking. Say, ?Show us your proof, if you are truthfull.?Allah also gives us Muslims the GREEN light to DEBATE in (16125). Debate is a format which civilized people use to address their differences. In Debate falsehood and truth clash, thus, this is a process that we take in order for truth to shine by presenting evidence to refute falsehood. Blind faith has no life in this process
Qur?aan 1781
And say ?Truth has (now) arrived, and falsehood perished for falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish,?Tay, its so much more then just personal journey and seeking guidance in your own heart without knowing whether or not your faith has lead you in the correct spot. Yes we have to have a pure heart and an open heart but we also have to seek guidance in the Final Authority which is Allah and in addition to that He gave us a beautiful Book for guidance and Allah has revealed that Book (Al Qur?aan) for us to follow from now until the Day Of Judgment. The Holy Qur?aan is not some Book that we just display and diminish it to just only for a ?road map?. Many people have taken the blind faith course and ended up in Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, just to name a few and never once question their religion to see if it is man-made or Divine form the Creator of all the exist ALLAH.
Below is a statement of yours
?Thus, when al-qur'an describes that what we have in our hands is the same that was given to nuh, musa, ibrahim, and isa, it must be concluded that the maps and signs weren't identical, but the source they pointed to is the same.?
I really do not quite know what direction you are leading into here, perhaps you can expound it?
You have said this
?What verification via logic, reason, etc. accomplishes is not the grasping of the spiritual, but the filtering out of the non-sensical.?
This is totally false, you are removing the fact that Allah wants us to investigate to obtain proof/evidence/facts of spiritual matters, its not only for just the non-sensical stuff but its also for spiritual matters and such approach will remove blind faith, false belief systems that many of us have fell victim to Satan?s trap. Also to Tay, we have a lot of non-sensical mess in religion including men trying to innovate things within the true religion or way of life of Islaam. So since Allah has decreed for us to examine everything, such approach and especially seeking out the true religion or way of life of Allah is every part of being spiritual because if you don?t take that approach, being a mere finite creature or human being, thus, you can be mislead and again the world is an example of that and that is why we have to also have an awareness of that many religions created were not created by Allah but by men who all claim it is the truth. Seeking knowledge from the Cradle to the grave is very spiritual in nature. When Allah would send His Prophets/Messengers such Jesus, Moses for example, Allah sent them with Al Bayyinah (clear proofs/signs/evidence), examples are below
Qur?aan 287
We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him We sent other Messengers, and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs (Al Bayyinah), and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that every time a messenger went to you with anything you disliked, you turned arrogant, so some of them you rejected, and some of them you killed?Qur?aan 292
And indeed Moses went to you with clear signs (Al Bayyinah), yet you worshiped the calf in his absence, and you were transgressors.Qur?aan 616
Recall that Jesus, son of Mary, said, ?O Children of Israel, I am a Messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Torah (which came) before me and bringing good news of a Messenger to come after me whose name will be Ahmad.? Then, when he showed them the clear evidence (Al Bayyinah), they said, ?This is clearly magic.?Al Bayyinah is an Arabic word that means ?Proofs/Signs/Evidence? and Prophet Muhammad even came with Al Bayyinah because he was sent from Allah. Allah does not guide with blind faith and that is why Allah has placed scientific miracles in the Holy Qur?aan so that we can know that His Book (Qur?aan) is actually from Him, The Source of all that exist. Below is an example of such scientific miracle
Qur?aan 2130
Do the unbelievers not realize that the heavens and the earth used to be one solid mass that We exploded into existence? And from water We made all living things. Would they believe?Scientist who validated the Big Bang actually helped us see the scientific miracle Allah places in His Holy Book over 1400 years ago. The whole moral of the story is that science/knowledge/evidence/proof/logic/reasoning place a very instrumental role in our spiritual development and growth and most of all it will remove us from being under the fallacy of blind faith and we will have Bayyinah/Furqaan to know better from right and wrong, from truth and falsehood, from light and darkness and that we will have clear consciousness, state of mind and contentment with our heart that we have the truth from Allah Himself which is Al Islaam. This is so much more beautiful then blind faith which is nothing more than Satan?s way of keeping us in spiritual darkness.
Tay, I have a question for you do you believe that all religions stems from the same Divine Source (Allah) or do you believe that Allah only revealed one religion or way of life called Islaam, which is the subject of this thread?
Salaam
Peace Al-Khidr, all,
Thank you for the thought-provoking article, and I applaud the civility of this discourse.
You mentioned in your dialogue with alpha that he was getting into semantics. I wonder if our understanding of the semantics being used here are actually succinct. Please clarify if I am misunderstanding the following
This issue trumpeting ?all faiths teach the same values? or ?all religions are good? has been going on for long. After a careful analysis, I am of the opinion that this concept is only partly true, NOT entirely. It is no doubt correct that the ethical values of all faiths are similar. But that cannot be said in regard to their spiritual aspects. For instance, all religions profess that it is wrong to steal, to kill, to be dishonest, to commit adultery or fornication, to be unkind to parents, relatives, neighbours and humanity in general, etc. etc. All such issues make up the ethical side of every faith and may have a high degree of uniformity. However, all faiths do not portray the same ideology about God, and this constitutes its spiritual/religious side. Concerning spiritual and religious notions, Islam is different and is the final word for all those who adhere to the Qur'aan. The Glorious Qur?aan clearly mentions that we ought to follow only the path shown by Allah. If we follow other guidelines, we run the risk of being parted from His way.
You mention that religion's portrayal of the ideology of God constitutes religion's spiritual side. Yet you do not describe how this is achieved. I disagree wholehearedly because ideology by definition is the work of the mind, not the soul. For instance, christians don't come to understand their trinity concept through meditation but through indoctrination. Same with buddhists, hindus, jews, and even muslims. Attributes of God are taught to the mind from other minds, and this is the jist of "ideology of God".
My understanding of what alpha was describing is that the spiritual aspect of one's deen does not and can not come from any book. The book(s) can only be regarded as maps or signs pointing the way, but the way itself is one of personal contemplation in transcendence of mind-speak leading to a spiritual understanding of God.
Thus, when al-qur'an describes that what we have in our hands is the same that was given to nuh, musa, ibrahim, and isa, it must be concluded that the maps and signs weren't identical, but the source they pointed to is the same.
What verification via logic, reason, etc. accomplishes is not the grasping of the spiritual, but the filtering out of the non-sensical.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Al-Khidr,
I recognize Islaam as the total truth from the Source of all that exist ALLAH, so on the other hand I totally reject your ?belief system? of the awareness of the existence of Allah, Islaam is something that is merely conceived from the mind of a mortal and I believe this is what you are saying and if you are not saying that please correct me.
Actually, this is not what I meant at all - and why I felt an emphasis on the semantics should be made to clarify
i?de?ol?o?gy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-l-j, d-)
n. pl. i?de?ol?o?gies
The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.Ideology is mind-stuff and has nothing to do with spirituality. That was my point. We are all indoctrinated into our respective systems via knowledge, ie, mind. The spiritual aspect comes in transcendence of this knowledge.
I believe the consciousnesses of Allah, the nature of Islaam are naturally endowed in man and woman from birth and that many on the planet have deviated from that truth/reality/their natural nature through indoctrinations of men that occurs under the laws of ?free will?. I do not synonymously equate the reality of Allah and His TRUTH with the man-made-innovations, false concepts of man, etc.
I agree with you, in the sense that islam = "submission to God". Not in the sense of islam = "the religion one can extrapolate from al-qur'an".
When you said this, ?My understanding of what alpha was describing is that the spiritual aspect of one's deen does not and can not come from any book.? On the contrary Allah told us that He revealed His Book (Qur?aan) as guidance. Many people try to make the claim that it?s only in the heart/its only a personal journey etc. and we really do not need any books.
Again, the semantics are vital for us to understand each other. What is guidance if not a series of signs and/or instructions designed to instruct one towards a destination? The destination is the goal, not the guidance. And the destination is transcendence of wordly knowledge - from believing to knowing.
many people who talk that talk sometimes have a wicked intent to disregard and remove us from following Allah?s Holy Book (Al Qur?aan). Now I have not concluded that with Alpha nor you but time will tell and expose such intentions from anybody. I am very skeptical when people approach others with that philosophy.
I understand your skepticism and this is certainly healthy. Let me be clear. I am not, by any means, limiting or belittling the importance and divinity of al-qur'an. It is the beacon, the cable of Allah, a blessing upon us, there for us to return to time and again for guidance. It is a miracle in every sense of the word. But it is not a spirituality machine. It only points the way.
Now, Tay another question for you is if our spiritual aspect of one?s Deen does not come from a Book as you have said, then how did you come to Islaam that is if you are a Muslim-Did Allah speak to you out of the sky, help me get a clearer understanding of your insight?
I'm not sure what you mean by "out of the sky", but I have experienced the awe and clarity of Allah's guidance from within at a time when I completely left the fold of islam. You can believe me or not, but I assure what I experienced had nothing to do with the details we often debate about on this forum. My spiritual experience taught me things that I find nearly impossible to express in words. The best I can do is tell you that it did not nullify my belief in al-qur'an, but it shifted the angle from which I view it.
In my response to Alpha I said we need Allah?s guidance and we also need the guidance of the Holy Qur?aan. Man is finite we make & create error/confusion, but the Holy Qur?aan is an infallible Book from the Creator, which is here to keep us on the straight path, it is here for guidance, We are suppose to follow it from now until the Day of Judgment, so the Holy Qur?aan is much more then just for a road map. It is here for us to observe from now until the Day of Judgment. It is a Book that makes a distinction from falsehood and that of truth, the Qur?aan is evidence, not blind faith from The Creator.
I agree it's more than a map. It's a super-duper map, from the Creator with all the attributes you descibed. But in the end, the book itself is powerless without the spiritual end it was designed to allow us to achieve. Many, many muslims today are walking, talking proof of what I am expressing here. Just learning the doctrine is not enough. The doctrine is just words.
First of all every body in different religions make that same principal claim but yet they all ended up in different religions which all contradicts one another. And another things that I want to add to your statement up above is that in such journey that you have described, what will help that journey is for one to do research, study, seek knowledge, evidence, facts, proof in addition to seeking guidance in Allah, so that our personal journey will not be a journey of blind faith. Allah repeatedly tells us in so many ways to seek knowledge and evidence
I agree. Claims are just words. If people end up in contradiction, then surely they haven't found al-haqq. They are, quite simply, liars. And certainly, the way to help the journey is as you described. This allows for the mind and soul to be in perfect sync, in harmony, a truly noble goal.
Allah also gives us Muslims the GREEN light to DEBATE in (16125). Debate is a format which civilized people use to address their differences. In Debate falsehood and truth clash, thus, this is a process that we take in order for truth to shine by presenting evidence to refute falsehood. Blind faith has no life in this process.
Absolutely agreed. But there comes a time in debate, as can be witnessed here on a daily basis, when folks must agree to disagree, yet both can be muslims. That for me is proof in itself that the mind left alone in the world of knowledge cannot possibly be the determining factor in discovering truth - else, every topic should end with the debaters in perfect accordance.
Tay, its so much more then just personal journey and seeking guidance in your own heart without knowing whether or not your faith has lead you in the correct spot. Yes we have to have a pure heart and an open heart but we also have to seek guidance in the Final Authority which is Allah and in addition to that He gave us a beautiful Book for guidance and Allah has revealed that Book (Al Qur?aan) for us to follow from now until the Day Of Judgment. The Holy Qur?aan is not some Book that we just display and diminish it to just only for a ?road map?. Many people have taken the blind faith course and ended up in Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, just to name a few and never once question their religion to see if it is man-made or Divine form the Creator of all the exist ALLAH.
Beautifully stated, and I hope you can see from my further clarifications that I agree wholeheartedly.
I stated "?What verification via logic, reason, etc. accomplishes is not the grasping of the spiritual, but the filtering out of the non-sensical.?...to which you replied
This is totally false, you are removing the fact that Allah wants us to investigate to obtain proof/evidence/facts of spiritual matters, its not only for just the non-sensical stuff but its also for spiritual matters and such approach will remove blind faith, false belief systems that many of us have fell victim to Satan?s trap. Also to Tay, we have a lot of non-sensical mess in religion including men trying to innovate things within the true religion or way of life of Islaam. So since Allah has decreed for us to examine everything, such approach and especially seeking out the true religion or way of life of Allah is every part of being spiritual because if you don?t take that approach, being a mere finite creature or human being, thus, you can be mislead and again the world is an example of that and that is why we have to also have an awareness of that many religions created were not created by Allah but by men who all claim it is the truth. Seeking knowledge from the Cradle to the grave is very spiritual in nature. When Allah would send His Prophets/Messengers such Jesus, Moses for example, Allah sent them with Al Bayyinah (clear proofs/signs/evidence), examples are below
You say it's totally false yet you go on to only strengthen my point. Reason and logic are tools of the mind - period. Spirituality defies reason and logic because it is the connection to the divine which is far beyond these worldy concepts. I hope by now I've explained this position thoroughly without too much repitition. Proofs/signs/evidences are food for thought. Of course they are important, but they are not spiritual. They can only be confirmed by the spiritual, but they do not define the spiritual.
Tay, I have a question for you do you believe that all religions stems from the same Divine Source (Allah) or do you believe that Allah only revealed one religion or way of life called Islaam, which is the subject of this thread?
I don't think this either/or question is mutually exclusive. I know in my soul that there is only one way - God's way, and submitting to God's way is called islam. I believe that all religions started from this point but mankind, living in the world or mind-stuff (politics and greed) has certainly evolved religion far from it's pure zero-point.
May peace be upon you,
Tay -
As Salaamu Alaykum brothers Al Khird. Tay, Pheonix and all brothers and sisters,
Thank you all for this good discussion on this forum! and please continue! I enjoyed reading them.
My unorthodox way of debate is bothering you Al Khidr? Thank you for bearing it brother!
What are the brothers for then? ;DThere are many issues which can be touched in this discussion as brother Tay elegantly has replied. But i want to stay with one central aspect and that is Attainment of Faith. In time we will come to the rest
Believing is guess-work and only Faith lies in the realm of truth!
You asked me about Sufism. That does not guide either! There is only one source of Guidance and have always been!-
Guidance unveils only when one approaches the realm of Faith.
-
And Faith comes only through experience! while Believing comes through guesswork! It is never 100%. Your chances might be good but there is no certainty! Faith comes through certainty of experience.
-
And that certainty and that experience is NOT achievable. That certainty can only happen to you. You can not choose it or buy it or learn it. And that certainty will be granted to you, only during the journey of spiritual growth.
-
And spiritual growth comes through training of your soul.
-
And through walking the realm of GIVING!
A writing of sister Myr has made me very mystic! since yesterday and it is about the realm of GIVING! It is fabulous
[ but the point is that God the All-Mighty created everything at our reach, and we can see that in many instances, without doing anything, trees will give fruits and flowers, cows will give milk, chicken will give eggs, rivers will give water, etc. and all these creations or part of the big creation do not complain when they give but continue to give, because they all submit to their Lord and follow HIS natural laws while we the humans, we tend to go against this nature, we do not give without worrying or complaining or counting, or expecting something in return. Have you noticed that some trees will even make their fruits available to us without picking them up?-), they let their fruits drop on the ground, made available to anyone to be picked up and without asking the person if he/she is poor/needy, subhan Allah wa al-hamdullillah for this blessing and signs we often do take for granted. We forget that we are part of this creation and therefore we should not go against the nature, that is giving.
Peace. Myr.
In the realm of GIVING soul will become charitable! It will transform! It will be searching to GIVE! And that realm needs to be experienced, it is real. It lies in the HOLY KINGDOM of COMPASSION!
Have you seen mother?s LOOK when looking to her new born baby? That look is not generated by chemicals in the brain! That look and those deep emotions comes from another realm which you can not put on the operating table. You can not count it! It is neither logical or illogical! It is beyond logic! But human HEART can experience it!
For soul training you need to go and walk there! In that other dimension!
During this journey the AWAKENING will be granted! Certainty will come and Faith will be attained.
But when Faith is attained, you will find yourself at adifferent angle. Things appeals deep down! It makes you fall down on your chin prostrating! while looking into sunset, watching birds, reciting Quran, reading a piece of paper without knowing who the writer is! You have become receptive!
Howal Azziz ol Shakoor -
-
Wa Laykum As Salaam Alpha
I have to admit I laughed in a positive way when I read your statement here
"Thank you all for this good discussion on this forum! and please continue! I enjoyed reading them.
My unorthodox way of debate is bothering you Al Khidr? Thank you for bearing it brother!
What are the brothers for then?"And thanks again for never unveiling that mysterious wise person's quote brickwall
Salaam
As Salaamu Alaykum brothers Al Khird. Tay, Pheonix and all brothers and sisters,
Thank you all for this good discussion on this forum! and please continue! I enjoyed reading them.
My unorthodox way of debate is bothering you Al Khidr? Thank you for bearing it brother!
What are the brothers for then? ;DThere are many issues which can be touched in this discussion as brother Tay elegantly has replied. But i want to stay with one central aspect and that is Attainment of Faith. In time we will come to the rest
Believing is guess-work and only Faith lies in the realm of truth!
You asked me about Sufism. That does not guide either! There is only one source of Guidance and have always been!-
Guidance unveils only when one approaches the realm of Faith.
-
And Faith comes only through experience! while Believing comes through guesswork! It is never 100%. Your chances might be good but there is no certainty! Faith comes through certainty of experience.
-
And that certainty and that experience is NOT achievable. That certainty can only happen to you. You can not choose it or buy it or learn it. And that certainty will be granted to you, only during the journey of spiritual growth.
-
And spiritual growth comes through training of your soul.
-
And through walking the realm of GIVING!
A writing of sister Myr has made me very mystic! since yesterday and it is about the realm of GIVING! It is fabulous
[ but the point is that God the All-Mighty created everything at our reach, and we can see that in many instances, without doing anything, trees will give fruits and flowers, cows will give milk, chicken will give eggs, rivers will give water, etc. and all these creations or part of the big creation do not complain when they give but continue to give, because they all submit to their Lord and follow HIS natural laws while we the humans, we tend to go against this nature, we do not give without worrying or complaining or counting, or expecting something in return. Have you noticed that some trees will even make their fruits available to us without picking them up?-), they let their fruits drop on the ground, made available to anyone to be picked up and without asking the person if he/she is poor/needy, subhan Allah wa al-hamdullillah for this blessing and signs we often do take for granted. We forget that we are part of this creation and therefore we should not go against the nature, that is giving.
Peace. Myr.
In the realm of GIVING soul will become charitable! It will transform! It will be searching to GIVE! And that realm needs to be experienced, it is real. It lies in the HOLY KINGDOM of COMPASSION!
Have you seen mother?s LOOK when looking to her new born baby? That look is not generated by chemicals in the brain! That look and those deep emotions comes from another realm which you can not put on the operating table. You can not count it! It is neither logical or illogical! It is beyond logic! But human HEART can experience it!
For soul training you need to go and walk there! In that other dimension!
During this journey the AWAKENING will be granted! Certainty will come and Faith will be attained.
But when Faith is attained, you will find yourself at adifferent angle. Things appeals deep down! It makes you fall down on your chin prostrating! while looking into sunset, watching birds, reciting Quran, reading a piece of paper without knowing who the writer is! You have become receptive!
Howal Azziz ol Shakoor -
-
As Salaamu Alaykum Tay
I see now after reading your response and listening to you expound more deeply the message that you were conveying, we are basically on the same wave length. There is not really to much you and I have a disagreement on. Alhamdulillah.
Salaam