Translation 2:78-"Ummi", "Gentile", "Illiterate"???
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Salaam to all
Layth and Ayman had an interesting discussion on the word ?Ummi? and ?gentile? which can be found here
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6176.30
I have been looking into Qur?aan 278, which led me to inquire about the following and please anybody feel free to respond, thus any information/insight would be greatly appreciated
I am studying Qur?aan 278. I will present three separate translations of this same verse. I will identify the translations as translation ?A?, ?B? and ?C?
Translation A
And there are some of them that are taught by their mothers only. They don?t know the scriptures except from hearsay, and that which they do is none other than what they made up.Translation B
Among them are gentiles who did not receive any scripture. They hear of it only through hearsay, then assume that they know it.Translation B
And there are among them Illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.Remember both A, B and C translations are for 278. From the discussions of the word ?Ummi?, ?Illiterate?, ?Gentile? and its meaning and context of the scriptures etc. which one of the translations up above would you (this is for anybody who would like to respond or answer) consider the best and why? Anybody?s insight/information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Salaam
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Salaam Al Khidr
If I read this
And there are some of them that are taught by their mothers only. They don?t know the scriptures except from hearsay, and that which they do is none other than what they made up.
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and being me (as I know myself), I would wonder why those who were taught by their mothers only don't know the scriptures except from hearsay? This is contrary to what we are told in the qur'aan Jesus was brought up by his mother; Moses was nursed - at least - by his natural mother, and it was his step mother who believed in him. Mohammad was an orphan. Three messengers who received the book!! And their fathers were not ever mentioned.
And this
And there are among them Illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
If they can't read, either they know nothing, not even desires nor conjucture; or they "listen" to it, and the way they understand it has nothing to do with whether they know how to read and write or not. Many people can read the book, but their minds are locked, and they follow but conjectures.Illetracy does not mean lack of wisdom or lack of good judgement.
The third one
Among them are gentiles who did not receive any scripture. They hear of it only through hearsay, then assume that they know it.
Whatever "gentiles" mean, this sounds more logical, as it is void of the invalid statements in the other two.
How did I do -?
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Salaam Al Khidr,
My quran reading leads me to choose gentile but my perception of gentile might be a bit different than merely "people who have not been given scriptures". Gentile in my perception also includes those who have been given scriptures but recite it like parrot (only hearing from their clerics without trying to understand it by themselves).
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Peace,
I would choose gentile too.This is because it is also in line with God sending messengers to every people.Arabs had no messenger with a scripture in their tongue prior to muhammad,so they were gentiles in that sense.Peace
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Say "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth there is no god but He it is He that giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the ummiy Prophet, who believed in Allah and His Words follow him that (so) ye may be guided."
Israelis believe that the prophets shall be comes from their tribe. But Musa predicted (in this verse) that a prophet will come from ummi people, he meant Arabs not Israelis. So ummi is a nation not Israeli, neither gentile nor illiterate.
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^But I looked up the word's definition on dictionary.com and it said someone who is NOT A JEW.
Btw for the past hour I was confusing gentile with gentle, lol. Silly me.
And yeah, wtf is up with people translating it to illiterate...what the hell does that have to do with being a non-Jew or a pagan?
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Salamun alaykum
Peace,
I would choose gentile too.This is because it is also in line with God sending messengers to every people.Arabs had no messenger with a scripture in their tongue prior to muhammad,so they were gentiles in that sense.Peace
If "gentile" means non 'children of Israel ' or non people of the book , then this is the best and appropriate meaning , reason being as stated above and it is consistent with 3440 ( the verse that says neither scripture nor a 'Warner' were ever given or sent to Arabs ) .
Peace
almarh0m
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I have a number of problems with this issue. I'm glad somebody gave it a three year bump.
Both in the Ummi verse and the Night Journey verse, the context is discussing Moses. Why and how the sudden leap to Mohammed? Could it be a reference to Moses being the first National Prophet? Or Mohammed being a National Prophet?
If the previous scriptures are corrupt why anchor the veracity of the Ummi Prophet to both? I don't know of the slightest hint anywhere in Christianity or Judaism of a singular gentile or illiterate prophet coming in the future. You'd really have to assume both parties are unanimously and profounding obstinate to so successfully obscure such a prophecy.
I don't know anything about Arabic grammar or syntax. Why is it written Al Nabi Al Ummi?
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I have a number of problems with this issue. I'm glad somebody gave it a three year bump.
Both in the Ummi verse and the Night Journey verse, the context is discussing Moses. Why and how the sudden leap to Mohammed? Could it be a reference to Moses being the first National Prophet? Or Mohammed being a National Prophet?
If the previous scriptures are corrupt why anchor the veracity of the Ummi Prophet to both? I don't know of the slightest hint anywhere in Christianity or Judaism of a singular gentile or illiterate prophet coming in the future. You'd really have to assume both parties are unanimously and profounding obstinate to so successfully obscure such a prophecy.
I don't know anything about Arabic grammar or syntax. Why is it written Al Nabi Al Ummi?
Welcome to my world. Ummy doesn't mean gentile nor illiterate. It means he can't understand the very mysterious and invisible Book that was given to Moses and the Quran is an Arabic exegesis of that ghost Book.
Peace,
Rami
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Salamun alaykum
If "gentile" means non 'children of Israel ' or non people of the book , then this is the best and appropriate meaning , reason being as stated above and it is consistent with 3440 ( the verse that says neither scripture nor a 'Warner' were ever given or sent to Arabs ) .
Peace
almarh0m
Peace Brother
3440
(3440) And the Day when He will gather all mankind together, He will ask the angels, "Did they really worship you?"
Regards
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I have a number of problems with this issue. I'm glad somebody gave it a three year bump.
Both in the Ummi verse and the Night Journey verse, the context is discussing Moses. Why and how the sudden leap to Mohammed? Could it be a reference to Moses being the first National Prophet? Or Mohammed being a National Prophet?
If the previous scriptures are corrupt why anchor the veracity of the Ummi Prophet to both? I don't know of the slightest hint anywhere in Christianity or Judaism of a singular gentile or illiterate prophet coming in the future. You'd really have to assume both parties are unanimously and profounding obstinate to so successfully obscure such a prophecy.
I don't know anything about Arabic grammar or syntax. Why is it written Al Nabi Al Ummi?
good post cushan.
Here is another link that substantiates your post, I think.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597787.0
who is Ummi? Its a possibility-Moses. jedi
peace
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Peace Q_s
Peace Brother
3440
(3440) And the Day when He will gather all mankind together, He will ask the angels, "Did they really worship you?"
Regards
Begging your pardon Brother Q_s , I was meant to write 3444 , heard of a typo ?
" And We have not given them any books which they read, nor did We send to them before you a warner " ( 3444 ) .
It was a genuine typo , hope it is now corrected .
Thank you
almarh0m
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And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners who do not know Book, except wishful/hopeful hearsay/conjectural myths made/thrown popular in society and/as such that they do nothing except conjecturing/supposing/assuming.
Looks like this is an "Elitists" translation to me , but then perhaps Iam wrong .
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Looks like this is an "Elitists" translation to me , but then perhaps Iam wrong .
Grand Qur'aan is a statement of proven fact, for all time and space. There is possibility that Jews/Bani Israel attain 100 percent literacy. Here the knowledge is with reference to the revealed Book, and common public never 100 percent comprises of those who know the revealed Book. Ummi is also for common men. Thanks