You Have Been Warned

Samia

) How the mountains will be embarrassed from Allah?
2) If the 3 translators above got it wrong translating the word ?Khashia??

Peace Ahmed
Would you please go back to my posting and read it again, if you really want an answer? The answer is there, you just do not give yourself time to read and try to understand.

A quick answer? I did not say any of the above.

unknownuser

Bro Ahmed,

Peace Bro

Maybe my arabic is not that good then.

Even if it is good, it is irrelevant in this case because we have the Quran using the word many times, if the Quran fails to explain it then we can seek the help of those Arabic speakers

Here is my philosophy bro,

I use the Quran to explain itself, (words and context)
If the Quran have not used the word enough or the context is vague then I will seek knowledge from other sources

i.e. bro, I don?t take the words of any human whatever that human knowledge is if what that humans says contradicts the Quran. Very simple logic

the case we have in hand is the word Yakhsha, now we have the following facts

all translators all over the Quran translated the word as to fear in all the locations the word appeared
if the other two proposed understandings (embarrassed or showing respect) are used in many of these location we will end up with either, a non sensible teaching, or a silly verse that does not makes any sense
as far as Arabic knowledge I have, the word Yaksha ONLY MEANS TO FEAR

now what I need from you and sister Samia to prove your case is very simple, you bring a verse in the Quran where the word is used to mean ?show respect, or embarrassed? conclusively and I will have no problem to concede, for example I used to know that the word ?Bushra? is only used for the good news and I argued that with Samia, then when she showed me a couple of verses that conclusively showed the word was used with bad news, I conceded, therefore bro instead of wasting everyone time, I only accept Quran verses as evidences please, it is ironic that the verses I showed so far, neither you nor Samia responded to it to clear my ignorance and show me that the new meanings both of you are proposing will fit like a glove without creating a contradiction, let me show you a few examples

Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah They said Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not Grant us respite to our (natural) term, near (enough)? Say Short is the enjoyment of this world the Hereafter is the best for those who do right Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least!

(77)

-> In the above Allah is giving us an example of some coward humans who feared to fight, because they feared their enemy more than they feared Allah ? ? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah?, now I only see ?to fear? fitting in here, can you please convince me that using ?embarrassed or showing respect? will not make the verse non sensible?

And do not kill your children for fear of poverty; We give them sustenance and yourselves (too); surely to kill them is a great wrong.

(31)

-> Allah is warning us not to kill our new children FEARIN poverty ? And do not kill your children for fear of poverty?, same question bro, can both new meaning apply in here without making the verse laughable?, well possibly being embarrassed of poverty has 2% logic but to show respect to poverty is very laughable indeed, don?t you agree?

Say If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from fear of spending, and man is niggardly.

(100)

-> In this verse Allah is telling Mohammad to tell us ? Say If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from fear of spending?, same question my friend, can both meaning fit in here?, well what is the percentage of logic you give to each of the following

Say If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from respect of spending
Say If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from embarrassment of spending

I tell you bro I give both 0% logic, because simply, it won?t make any sense

OK what is the difference between the word taqwa and khashia? I refer to the ayats where Allah says Attaqu Allha ma astata'a tum, and Attaqu Allah haqa tuqattihi..

Good question, while I haven?t done enough researches regarding the word ?Itqi?, I can say from the top of my head that this is what can mean ?show respect?, however I see it as ?Avoid being questionable by Allah?, this in effect means to be smart to do what He asked us to do, it has nothing to do with fear, rather being smart.

I am still not convinced that khashia means only fear. Khaouf yes,

Then please convince me USING THE QURAN ALONE, anything else is inadmissible in my religious world, I?m sorry bro

but khashia is deeper in meaning. I believes it includes respect/reverence when it is referring to Allah.

hmmm, so when Allah is telling us ?La Takhshu Al Nas?, it means He istelling us not to show respect to the people?

You cannot just fear Allah as you fear a punishment,

Of course and I never said that

even if it is the one of Hell,

I always differentiated between fearing Allah and fearing His punishment, in fact I stated earlier that Allah can eliminate us without any torture and this is enough to cause fear to me

meaning you put Allah at same level as punishment...

I never did, but I have to say is to take some flawed human words for a new meaning of a word despite He used it many times in the Quran to mean only one thing, is what can be considered what you said above

And Allah never says to my knowledge Khafuni...
And Allah knows best
Salam Bro

But He said ?Ikhshon?, and all the places the word is used in the Quran can only mean one thing which is to fear Him

Salam

unknownuser

) How the mountains will be embarrassed from Allah?
2) If the 3 translators above got it wrong translating the word ?Khashia??

Peace Ahmed
Would you please go back to my posting and read it again, if you really want an answer? The answer is there, you just do not give yourself time to read and try to understand.

A quick answer? I did not say any of the above.

Sorry sister I didn't say you said the above, i was trying to see if your interpration to the word Yakhsha is fitting

Salam

unknownuser

JK- I know GOD always warns before giving punishment. But the qs i asked is why does GOD make mention of hell and it's features at all? He could have just said that those who disbelieved would face severe punishment. Now you get my point? GOD Bless!

Peace bro

come on bro, i don't expect these sort of questions from a believer, however here is my answer mate

He described the hell in details to us because He chose to do so

Salam

unknownuser

Peace Samia

Just to let you know that "Khashia" has nothing to do with "Ikhtasha", it is just a case of similar letters and I know this confuses many new Arabic commers, what you should know that the word "Ikhtasha", is the "Masddar" "The root" itself and it is one of those 5 letters roots, like "Igtmaa", "Iktafa", "Izdahara

The Alif and Ta in Ikhtasha CAN NOT BE DROPPED to determine the "Masddar"

Peace Ahmed
Just to let you know that ikhtasha and khashia are two verbs derived form one root. iktasha is a verb of the pattern "ifta3a" known as form 8, khashia is form 1. It is definitely not a masddar.
Also, a 5-letters-root does not exist. All the examples you gave are for verbs of the pattern (, jama3a, kafa, zahara being their (form 1) verbs.

I think sister you need Anwar for that one

I can assure you that 4 and 5 root Masdar exist, it is called Kalimat Jamida

But i will leave it at this until Anwar tell us what he thinks regarding the 5 letters root

Salam

jonny_k

Peace bro "AB",

JK- I know GOD always warns before giving punishment. But the qs i asked is why does GOD make mention of hell and it's features at all? He could have just said that those who disbelieved would face severe punishment. Now you get my point? GOD Bless!

Peace bro

come on bro, i don't expect these sort of questions from a believer, however here is my answer mate

He described the hell in details to us because He chose to do so

Salam

JK- Bro i believe to everything GOD has a reason. Theres nothing just in vain. GOD even says this in the Quran that nothing did He create in vain. Everything has to have a reason and one of the more reasobale reasons i see for the punishment of hell is also to motivate people. Ofcourse the reward also plays a very significant part in this. The BOTH DO. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Peace bro "AB",

Peace mate

JK- Bro i believe to everything GOD has a reason.

Of course, but let me ask you these two questions

Do you believe that He told us all His reasons regarding all His plans?
Do you believe that He SHOULD tell us all His reasons regarding all His plans?

Theres nothing just in vain.

Of course again, no believer will say this about Allah creation

GOD even says this in the Quran that nothing did He create in vain.

That is why believers will stand firm to that statement, because it was said by Him.

Everything has to have a reason and one of the more reasobale reasons i see for the punishment of hell is also to motivate people.

that is what you see bro however you are confusing the common sense in here

FEAR DOES NOT MOTIVATE, it actually does the opposite however the task required will be done by force

It would have been easy on Allah to create us without freewill and we just worship Him day and night like all others creatures "sun, earth, etc etc..), would you have prefered that life bro?, no reward no punishment?

Now instead of that, He created a new law, that law is simply, He ecreated us ONLY to worship Him but we will have a freewill to make our decisions, then He told us that anyone who will meet Him kafir, will be doomed regardless of the deeds. this is no motivation whatsoever this is a law as a result of a given freewill.

Now, He motivated us regarding all other sins, and He said He may forgive them all if you are not a kafir, see how there is a reward in here?, He told us if you repenet from the bad deeds and do not insist on it then it will be replaced with good deeds, again, can you see the motivation in here? there is a reward of course, and for the good deeds, He told us the reward for it will be multiplied if we are believers, again a reward and a motivation

With Hell bro, there is no reward, if you are a kafir, you will be doomed, THIS IS A THREAT NOT A MOTIVATION

Again people need to escape that satanic feel good religion attitude because it does not work with Islam

Ofcourse the reward also plays a very significant part in this. The BOTH DO. GOD Bless!

I believe only the rewards like Allah forgivness and His paradise will play all the part in motivation

Salam

noble

Peace Bro Ahmed.
I am impressed by your memory of all the occurences of the word Yakhsha.
I believe the meaning depends on the context. Do not forget there are other words for fear in other languages too, how about "being scared", or "being anxious", "terrorised"..., and each produce a different shade of meaning
Again Allah never used Khawf Allah.
In some examples you cited, khashiata means giving more importance to, giving more importance to a creature or a thing than to Allah.
By the way I do not really care about translations of Quran. I agree Kashia includes fear, but not always. In the case of Khashiati Allah in Arabic, for me it means not only fear, also giving importance to and showing respect.
The Quran also warns us from taking things out of their context....

And as always Allah knows best

unknownuser

Peace Bro Ahmed.
I am impressed by your memory of all the occurences of the word Yakhsha.
I believe the meaning depends on the context. Do not forget there are other words for fear in other languages too, how about "being scared", or "being anxious", "terrorised"..., and each produce a different shade of meaning
Again Allah never used Khawf Allah.
In some examples you cited, khashiata means giving more importance to, giving more importance to a creature or a thing than to Allah.
By the way I do not really care about translations of Quran. I agree Kashia includes fear, but not always. In the case of Khashiati Allah in Arabic, for me it means not only fear, also giving importance to and showing respect.
The Quran also warns us from taking things out of their context....

And as always Allah knows best

Thank you bro

I hope you concede after reading the following verse that The Quran said we should "Nakhaf Allah"

And remember your Lord within yourself humbly and fearing and in a voice not loud in the morning and the evening and be not of the heedless ones.

(205)

-> See bro , "And remember your Lord within yourself humbly and fearing "

So fearing Allah was an order using the word "Khafa"

Salam

noble

Peace Bro
Thank you
That settles our little dispute
Best Salam
Noble

noble

Peace
Again Bro Ahmed
And Allah was right to say that we humans are the most argumentative creatures, certainly I am... ;D
Salam

unknownuser

Peace
Again Bro Ahmed
And Allah was right to say that we humans are the most argumentative creatures, certainly I am... ;D
Salam

Peace bro

I was one as well bro, but I'm glad I manged to take my ego away and leave it to Allah words to explaint itself

people think I'm argumantative, but the fact of the matter is verse 1736 say "Don't argue if you lack knowledge" and that is exactly what I try hard to do, the message of 1736 is very positive indeed because it allows you to argue if you have the knowledge

Take care bro

noble

Peace Bro Ahmed
I love arguing, but I do not have the energy to keep it up even when I am correct...
You too take care...

unknownuser

Peace Bro Ahmed
I love arguing, but I do not have the energy to keep it up even when I am correct...
You too take care...

Peace bro

Did you notice that "Khifa" was on the same wazn as "Khashia"?

cheers

noble

Peace
Bro Ahmed
Yes it has the same emphasis. However the injunction or order was for the Prophet. I know Allah said He was the ultimate example for us, but I believe that it is very hard for the average believer to have the same faith as the Prophet himself...
Also are there other occurences of the word Khifa that is linked directly as an order to the Muslims, not the Prophet in isolation...
I told you I love arguing, but will probably not keep it up with you )
Salam

jonny_k

Peace bro "AB",

With Hell bro, there is no reward, if you are a kafir, you will be doomed, THIS IS A THREAT NOT A MOTIVATION

JK- I get a feeling that you might be thinking that i deny it being a threat. If thts the case then know tht i dont. I considered it BOTH a threat and a motivation. GOD Bless!

noble

Peace
This is becoming a philosophy thread lol

noble

Brother Ahmed
Please tell me what you think of the content in this link (a discussion about the Uncreatedness of the Quran)
http//www.livingislam.org/uncrq_e.html

arnoldyasin

Peace AB

This is what I see as a proper translation to 74/30-31 by Piktchal

"Over it Nineteen

AND We have not made/appointed/set the wardens of the fire others than angels; and We have NOT made/appointed/set their number BUT a fitna for those who disbelieve(d); that those who have been given the book may attain certainty AND those who believe may increase in faith; AND those who have been given the book and the believers may not doubt, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the unbelievers may say What does Allah mean by this mathal? Thus does Allah make err whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases, and none knows the hosts of your Lord but He Himself; and this is naught but a reminder to the mortals."

Fitna also means 'to research the purity of gold' and also 'to throw it in the fire to purify it from unpurities'. And 'malikah' i wouldn't translate as 'angels' but as 'ones in control' which is a closer translation of 'malikah', angel is a given title, not a translation, so here for me it refers to the Laws which are in control of the purity of the Quran. And kafr i would translate as someone who buries the truth for his 'self'.

"And We have not made/appointed/set the wardens of the fire others than the Laws that control ; and We have not made/appointed/set their number but 1) a purifying act (fitna) for those who bury the truth for themselves(kafr); 2)that those who have been given the book may attain certainty and 3)those who believe may increase in faith; and 4)those who have been given the book and the believers may not doubt, and 5)that those in whose hearts is a disease and the ones who bury the truth for themselves may say What does Allah mean by this mathal? Thus does Allah make err whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills, and none knows the forces of your Sustainer but He Himself; and this is naught but a reminder to the mortals."

For me, the fire doesn't refer only to something in the Next Life. Fire refers to something that consumes and doesn't feed you. Like an illusion only consumes as you cannot base it on reality, so you have to feed yourself to keep it alive, instead of it feeding you and keeping you alive.

For example Idolatry is called an illusion in 3130, and in 2257 it is said that people who commit idolatry are in the fire.

That is so for God is the Reality(Haq), and what they invoke other than Him is illusion. Indeed God is all-high and supreme.
God is the friend of those who believe, and leads them out of darkness into light; but the patrons of the ones who bury the truth for themselves(kafaruu) is everything that is served next to God/idols(taghhout) who lead them from light into darkness. They are the residents of Fire, and will abide therein.

So the 'wardens of the fire are the Laws(ones in control=malikah)' refers to the borders between truth and falsehood, between reality and illusion. Between a true verse or word and even letter of the Quran and a fake one.

Peace

unknownuser

The 'battle-ground' as you put it was started for a very simple reason You take every opportunity to malign or belittle AQ. And you know what? I will continue to question every thing you say so that not a single one of your defecations go unquestioned. Lets hope rule 2 makes a comeback.

Your admittance to politicise this forum and to create a battle ground will not work, no matter how hard you try, with or without me, because you are not the Al-Qaeda style member-made deity nor the prophet of this forum, where people will simply succumb and submit to your hostilities. Take that stance somewhere else or keep it confined to your home.

You can give my criticisms whatever names you like, such as defecations, urinations and quran-bashings, that too won't work, simply because you yourself do exactly that, i.e. the practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating the literacy of Quranic injunctions, a deplorable state of confusion to "defecate/urinate (criticise)" on just about every word, verse and/or paragraph in the Quran in the broader sense of dicussions, including your mocking and mimicking of your "Allah".

DanishYour question 1, deviates from subject matter, which is "fearing Allah" as claimed? If you need definitions of words, then check dictionaries.

Lol. How am I deviating from the subject matter. You said 'DanishFearing an "Allah" is historically correct but realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect.'

So the subject matter is still 'fear of allah' and why its 'realistically and logically' incorrect.

The dictionaries do not contain a usage which agrees with your comments.Now kindly tell me what you mean

mquran's 3-in-1 question 1. Why is it 'realistically' incorrect? Please define 'realistically' and your evidence that this definition is wholly objective. The definition of 'realistically' and its evidence, along with other definitions of 'historically', 'logically' and 'scientifically' can be found in dictionaries.

I shall only explain what I wrote and that is "Fearing an "Allah" is historically correct but realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect." I am not here to give definitions to words you pick and choose but to explain my statement and in accordance to the following

My approach towards certain verses mentioned above in relations to 7431 and others comes from analysing historical significance. It has nothing to do with "afterlife" or code-19. If I bring my thoughts into this, I'm sure I'll be bashed out by some belligerents unecessarily and become a battle ground. What say you? Do I get a green light?

Moderators, I invoke rule 2. This person should be made to answer for his critique.

Started crying again, eh. You can shed tears all you want all over the forum and I will respond only once you start behaving and get back into serious discussion. Here's a reminder

mquranThat's all Im asking for here responsible, amicable discussion.

This is not found in your ?dictionary?. Just dream on. As can be seen that this discussion itself is getting detoriated; thanks to "defecations/urinations" of mquran.