You Have Been Warned
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Peace Bro Ahmed
I know the story, and thank you for telling it to me.
In the story it is Mercy not Fear that is the emphasis...
I fear the Wrath of Allah. I am grateful to Allah for my life.
In any event, this is why in my opinion, Muslims have not been able to re-establish themselves, as they are coerced into obedience through fear, and it does not seem to work.
I used to be terrorised of being punished by Allah, in fact when I made my first tawba in 1986, I was questioning every single minute thing I was doing, even whether it was ok for me to shake the hands of others, or to drink water served by a waiter...
So really I come from this too, but ultimately it was paralysing me, I was spending most of my days in the mosque, asking for forgivenes, but not working, and being a burden on my family... And not achieving anything...
This is the kind of counter-productive fear I am talking about.
Now I am glad you accept that the fear of Allah you are referring to is different from the fear of people. This is why I said before it depends who you are attributing it to (ie the context)
I am not arrogant, or proud, Allah created me, and I am doing my best to understand and follow His guidance, maybe fear is genetically wired into our make-up, but so is gratitude.
In any event if you want to use the word fear for khashiat, be my guest, Allah gives the antidote, and this is dhikrullah...
If He wanted us to stay in constant fear, we will be smitten and despondent, instead He gave us solutions to ease the pain, and to avert hell fire in the hereafter.
This is my understanding after many years of trials and tribulations (inclusive of having been an imam for quite a few years)...
Salam Bro
NoblePeace bro
so why I was never terrorised by Allah and still fear Him the most?
well, sorry to tell you I see those who don't fear Allah are close to arrogant if not arrogant themselves, remember one of His names is "Al Jabbar", do you know what that name means?
Cheers
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Bro Ahmed, Salam
So according to your view I am arrogant?
Al Jabbar (The Compeller) and also Al Raheem and Al Ghafoor and Al Lateef but also Al Dhaar and Al Muhaimin, which is the most powerful attribute? Or are they all equal? Allah said He has the Best Names. Would you like to add the Terroriser? I do not agree...
Listen this is not a contest.
Inni Akhsha Allah, but fear is not a good translation...
Khashiatu Allah is something natural, and it goes against nature not to feel it.
But humans do a lot of unnatural things, this is why they pay the price with Hell Fire.
Peace -
Bro Ahmed, Salam
Salam bro
So according to your view I am arrogant?
without being offensive, yes you are twards Allah, i'm not really sure how you are with humans though
Al Jabbar (The Compeller) and also Al Raheem and Al Ghafoor and Al Lateef but also Al Dhaar and Al Muhaimin, which is the most powerful attribute?
i don't look at it as which is is the most powerful, i look at as all the same magnitude of a divine power, i donlt measure it according to my humans knowledge and relative to them, I only look at it from what Allah said about Himself in the Quran
so with every attribute He said about Himself I will take it as the ultimate attribute a God must have and cosequently I will deal with that attribute each one individually, I won't mix them or try to compare them otherwise according to my limited human knowldge a conflict will arise
Or are they all equal?
I treat them as an attribute at its divine max, I stress divine max not human max, and for a divine max i see it as infinite
Allah said He has the Best Names. Would you like to add the Terroriser?
Yes, because that is what He said about Himself, but again not terrorism as you as a human understand it, it is called divine terrorism and is 100% justified against His creatures
Remeber the verse that Allah said the heaven and earth
"Ietia Tawan Aw KARHA"
i,e, will they comply by their own choice or BEEN COMPULSED?
I do not agree...
Listen this is not a contest.I don't see it as a context with any other than the enemy of islam, however I hardly talk anything but Quran, and you hardly provided any verse to support your argument and because saying things about Allah that we don't know is HARAM, therefore I won't leave this matter and will continue to research it untill I run out of Quran evidences and I'm sure there is more to show you or show others, I just need a 48 hours day first
Inni Akhsha Allah, but fear is not a good translation...
Sure Inshaallah
I don't care about how people translate the clear Arabic word "Yakhsha" to any language really even I careless how the Arabs use it, I only take how Allah used it in His Quran and as long as the Quran does not contradict my view then this is the view I will follow
Khashiatu Allah is something natural, and it goes against nature not to feel it.
But humans do a lot of unnatural things, this is why they pay the price with Hell Fire.
PeaceI don't talk philisophy bro so I won't take it as Khashi Allah is natural, I can see the majority on earth don't do that really,
Take care
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Peace Bro Ahmed
You are a hard man.
I do not wish to be apologetic, my knowledge is derived from the Quran, it is just that i do not quote much.
What is the attribute of Allah that means fear? (there is a big difference between Terroriser and terrorist)...
A pity for our Ummah that we waste our time arguing instead of building, but this is how it is...
So far as I agreed with your views I was a great guy, but now I have fallen from grace
So be it... You wont carry my burden and I wont carry yours, but do not forget that Allah asked us to be kind to one another as believers...
I do not think the Prophet asked his people to fear Allah in a certain special way or be non-believers, the Quran speaks for itself and develops the theme of how we should relate and obey Allah. Allah is Merciful and knows our limits, and you do not seem to relate with Allah's Mercy that much Bro Ahmed.
Have a look at this web site on the attributes of Allah...
http//www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=100&chapter=1
Take care bro
Noble
PS You are welcome to try and make me change my mind, as I said I am always looking for guidance, this is why I am here... -
Dear Bro
I'm not tryin to make it harder on you nor myself, fearing Allah is very logical to me , here is something I found by Harun Yahya
The lack of a true appreciation of Allah
Generally amongst the populace an understanding of religion based on hearsay is widespread. The majority of people have not familiarized themselves with Allah's own descriptions of Himself and His attributes as they appear in the original source of religion, namely the Qur'an. Yet Allah has introduced Himself to us in the Qur'an in the clearest and most authentic manner possible. The knowledge of most people regarding Allah consists of what they have heard from their respective families, relatives and from here or there. As a result of this, people's understanding regarding Allah varies widely.The interesting point about this is that it has never occurred to a great many people that the things they have heard and been taught in their immediate environments could be incomplete or even totally incorrect. Even if it has occurred to them, they would be most unlikely to go out of their way to do the research that would be required in order to ascertain the truth. This is a serious mistake which could result in going to the Fire as a consequence of not identifying Allah correctly or giving proper recognition to His many great attributes.
This kind of people think of Allah in general terms with respect to His attributes of The Forgiver (Al Ghaffar), The Helper (An Nasr), The Provider (Ar Razzaq), the Subtle One (Al Latif), The Preserver (Al Hafiz), The Merciful (Ar Rahim) and The Protector (Al Muhaymin). Limiting their focus to attributes such as these simply results in an unbalanced sense of comfort and complacency, since Allah has other attributes such as The Avenger (Al Muntaqim), The Punisher (Al Muazzib) and The Subduer (Al Qahhar). However, the people mentioned above would not know what these attributes of Allah actually mean. They cannot think of our Lord in these terms. They do not realize that these attributes will be brought to bear upon their actions, their behavior and their conversations.
Even though they may be aware of some of Allah's attributes by name, they remain unaware of their full import and the manner in which they are going to impinge upon their eternal lives. Either they have a one-sided view of Allah's many attributes, or they imagine that they do not apply to them in any way.
For example, if an injustice has been perpetrated on them, they believe that in the Hereafter Allah, with His infinite justice will seek retribution for this injustice. However, they fail to realize that they too will be faced with Allah's punishment if they do not believe in the Qur'an and act by it as they should. Mankind was created to worship Allah, but if they reject the purpose of their creation, they will without doubt face the consequences of this disbelief. The most severe of punishments is required for such an enormous transgression, hence the existence of Hell. Hell, being the most terrible place ever created is the arena for punishments whose severity lies far beyond man's powers of imagination. It subsumes and surpasses many times over the greatest agonies imaginable on Earth.
These people we describe do not have fearful awareness of Allah and behave carelessly; they are heedless of their own consciences and are completely lacking in understanding. They have no proper perception of Allah's strength and His power, His majesty and His vastness, His exaltedness and His greatness. Hence, they fail to experience the kind of inner awe and deep trepidation appropriate to the prospect of being exposed to His wrath. As a result of this, they do not strive to earn Allah's approval or to implement His commands to the best of their abilities. Neither do they abide by His prohibitions, preferring to lead carefree lives. They fail to show the gratitude and appreciation required for the blessings Allah has given them, therefore ungratefulness becomes a permanent feature of their beings. In the end however, the price for living a careless life on Earth will be paid with an eternal life of fear and torment.
There will be more bro
Cheers
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Peace Bro Ahmed
I have a lot of respect for Harun Yahia, and I watched many of his videos.
What he says here is very logical, meaning take all the attributes, do not only focus on the ones that suit you, and I agree with that.
I agree that Allah is capable to destroy us whenever and wherever he wishes, but one thiing Allah does not do is wrong His creation, as He said He forbade it on Himself, so asked us not to do it to ourselves.
The attributes of Allah show themselves depending on the context we can see wrath, and pain giving when people are struck by an earth quake, mercy when somebody gets cured of an ailment, forgiveness when someone who commited sins feels better in her soul... etc
I am going to end this debate with you by saying that it is fear that brought me to Islam, and maybe this is the way it is meant to be, but I do not see some Prophets coming to the faith only because they fear Allah.
I do fear Allah, yes I do, but what makes me move is His Mercy.
Salam
Noble -
Peace Bro Ahmed
Let us consider the story of Job (Ayuub), it is my favourite story after that of Joseph.
In it Ayuub is tested so that Allah sees if He really appreciates Him on His own, without all the good things He gave him.
This is a very good example of Allah teaching a lesson to a Prophet, who is much higher in standing than us.
So please Ahmed, you need to be careful not to label people that easily and put them out of the fold of faith... Only Allah can...
Salam
Noble -
Peace bro
I like H Y a lot too
Look bro let's make it logical, if fearing Allah will bring people to Allah's blessings and avoiding His severe punishment then FEARING ALLAH IS VERY GOOD FOR US, no one can deny that
it is like we have been forced to believe in Him but yet He has given us freewill and a law, this is actually a respect bu Allah to the human kind that He created, He didn't do this with other mighty creatures and all of them have no freewill
Remember when I told you before that I see it as humans don't really have a choice BUT to believe and submit to Him
Salam
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Peace Bro
People get convinced through different paths, fear being one of them, there is also knowledge, gratitude, mercy, miracles, even bad events such as tragedies and sins...
All of the above can also do the exact opposite...
It is not that simple, but it is only through Allah's mercy that we believe.
Take care Bro -
Peace Bro
I think this is a good example why fear does not always work the example in the Quran of those who are caught in a tempest on the sea, then submit to Allah on His own and fear Him until He brings them back to the shore and save them, and then after that they revert to becoming idol-worshippers.
It is the whole package brother...
Salam -
Salam Brother Ahmed
I went on a long stroll and was listening on my mp3 player to two surats, Alzummar and Ghafir.
In both of them I hear the emphasis of Allah's Mercy to those who genuinely seek guidance.
There is a beautiful ayat in Alzummar for all mankind not to despair of Allah's Mercy.
It will be very good if you listen to Alzummar again (not read it but listen to it), it really is a very compelling Surah.
Best Salam
Noble
PS I used to read the Quran an amazing lot, but now I enjoy even better listening to it... -
Thanks bro
I enjoy doing both, I have all the quran suras as mp3 files on my 60 gig ipod, I also have all the Quran suras in Arabic on my PDA phone, incluidng Tafisir, my PDA also reminds me with the Salat time as it changes everyday
cheers
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Salam Bro Noble
here is the link for H Y book about the fear of Allah
http//www.harunyahya.com/books/deep_thinking/fear/fear1.php
cheers
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Bro Ahmed,
Peace
Bro H Y is very generous, allowing for his pdf book being free of charge.
Since as far as I am concerned he is an authority on Islamic matters, in my eye, so what he says I will tend to accept.
Therefore I agree with you that Believers should fear Allah always.
Thank you for your patience, but next time, take it easy...
Kind salams
Noble -
Bro Ahmed,
Peace
Bro H Y is very generous, allowing for his pdf book being free of charge.
Since as far as I am concerned he is an authority on Islamic matters, in my eye, so what he says I will tend to accept.
Therefore I agree with you that Believers should fear Allah always.
Thank you for your patience, but next time, take it easy...
Kind salams
NobleYeh mate, I read most of his books, I agree with most of what he says, as far as I remember I only disagree with him regarding the Mahdi, while I was brought to believe that a Mahdi will come, as I grow up I found the idea does not make sense to me, what do you think?
also I'm very patient with those whom I care about, and sure I mostely care about those who show clear signs of intellligence, I really hate wasting my time with the dumb deaf and blind despite I try hard first
my stand is simple bro, i only argue if I have concrete knowledge and I can back it up "NOT WITH MY OWN MADE UP EVIDENCES" but by others and on top of that list is Allah
Salam
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http//www.harunyahya.com/books/deep_thinking/fear/fear1.php
In the very first paragraph of this link, it states
"Allah's appointed angels are constantly monitoring and inscribing everything that you do. The moment you say a word they write it down. Your every step, every thought, everything that you do, including obligations which have been postponed, are all recorded without omission."
My concern is that why is there such a need for these "body guards" (angels) to do the works of an all-powerful, omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipresent (all-present) Allah?
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http//www.harunyahya.com/books/deep_thinking/fear/fear1.php
In the very first paragraph of this link, it states
"Allah's appointed angels are constantly monitoring and inscribing everything that you do. The moment you say a word they write it down. Your every step, every thought, everything that you do, including obligations which have been postponed, are all recorded without omission."
My concern is that why is there such a need for these "body guards" (angels) to do the works of an all-powerful, omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipresent (all-present) Allah?
Danish
please man, if Allah didn't explain His actions, don't ask me to explain it then, for example I don't know why Allah created two eyes for us, or two holes in the nose etc etc...
see, I have zillions of questions that no one on this bloody earth will be able to answer, so i tend to avoid these silly questions because for me to participate in such non sense means that I don't know Allah well, now Allah told us in the Quran that you said you follow, "He can't be questioned regarding what He does but we will be questioned regarding what we do"
Salam
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Hello Ahmed,
I guess I didn't make myself clear or you didn't catch my point. Let me put it in another perspective
Creating angels as body guards or helpers, undermines Allah's attributable strengths, does it not?
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Danish Creating angels as body guards or helpers, undermines Allah's attributable strengths, does it not?
On the contrary, a God whose essence (ql dhat) is present in this world can't really be god, can he?
I'm expecting an answer, not a question. Please don't divert my question with another question? If you can answer, then do so and if you can't, then at least acknowledge it.
Prove your hypothesis logically, please.
I'm asking a question, not proving an answer? If you think my question was not logical, then explain yourself.