You Have Been Warned

Zantetsuken

I apologize man, i shouldnt have replied under influence. I just thought I remember you mentioned hadiths last time so it seemed kind of ironic when i remembered the hadith that gold will be pourn into your ears for listening to music, it just gets me in a bad mood when i think of those, and people that pick and choose which hadith to believe based on what they want

unknownuser

Peace AB,

Peace mate

May I say that your view of hell is very scary?

I?m sorry, it is not my view, it is the Quran view hence it is Allah view

The descriptions of Hell said by Allah can?t in no way contradict His great mercy for many logical reasons

If He will not punish the Kafiroon and the sinners then what was the whole bloody point then?
To state the punishment in advance is actually a message of mercy unlike many twisters who prefer to see it the contrary, I will give you a simple example

Imagine I have all the power over someone, i.e. that one is my slave , then I decided one day to test him with a tough test and in my mind will kill him if he fails the test, let?s assume the test is to run 2 miles in 5 minutes, here is the possibilities

I will not tell my salve at all that there will be any punishment and I will just kill him if he fails
I will only tell the slave that there will be a sort of punishment but will not tell him that I will kill him if he fails
I will tell the slave that I will kill him if he fails the test

Now please and logically speaking, which one of the above makes me the most merciful?

It has to be 3 because I told the truth to my slave and now it is up to my slave to pass or fail the test however knowing in advance that he will be dead if he fails will make him do his best to pass the test, I?m sure ANY HUMAN if put under this circumstances will do his/her best to pass the test, it is ironic that this is what will happen when a human have power over another human while with Allah they totally ignore the warning, those are the ones who can only believe in what they see, and because Allah is unseen they don?t take His warning seriously as they do with a powerful human whom they can see and hear., Allah clearly and irrefutably told us in advance that His punishment is going to be severe

Know that Allah is severe in punishment, but that Allah (also) is Forgiving, Merciful.

(9

-> See how it was told boldly ? Know that Allah is severe in punishment?, even it was said before ? but that Allah (also) is Forgiving, Merciful.?, those Allah will forgive them are those entitled to be forgiven, not randomly, the Quran is clear about whom that will be entitled to be forgiven

-> you know how many timed Allah told us that His punishment is going to be severe?, 14 times in the Quran, now I might ask you, how many times you think the humans need to be told that their God is severe in punishment before they believe it?, I tell you what, I only need it once to be told by Allah and that is enough for me to hear and obey.

Therefore Allah is 100% honest with us, He is not misleading us neither He will be a tyrant on us, everything we need to know to pass that test and avoid His severe punishment is sent to us by Him in His Quran, so He is 100% merciful, and ironically it is very easy to pass the test if the humans drop their egos against their God. And I tell you Allah does not like the arrogant.

Some people need that fear to keep theirselfs motivated to be or stay good,

So you put you statement smartly by using the word ?some?, i.e. there are others who can be motivated without fear, is there is any medical proof of that or just another philosophical propaganda?

cause they don't want to be punished (nor feel any phsyical/mental pain).

well, I don?t think this apply only to the some who need to fear to be motivated, I guess it applies to the others as well

Others (I for example) keep motivated by the love that they feel (paradise) inside and is therefore easier to stay good, because they feel peace.

Good for you, but I just could not make sense from the above really especially this bit ? keep motivated by the love that they feel (paradise)?, hmmm, I don?t know, can you please elaborate but with something logical not philosophical because I hate philosophy really, I actually used to be called one, lol that when I was in my teens and was very firm in my view as many here however by 21 I realized that philosophy is nothing but BS and is coming from Satan, so I totally avoid it now. So please if you would like to discuss anything with me and prove me wrong, I hope you bring Quran verses with you, cheers

I don't share the same view as you

I don?t expect that all shares the views of the literal Quran, but I know there is a new wave of views based on the philosophical Quran, which for me does not exist, possibly people are bored and looking for a change?

since I believe in a merciful, gracious and forgiving God.

well, so you wanted our God not to tell us how He is going to punish those who will deserve the punishment and juts take them by surprise?, does not make sense to me, this is tyrancy

Also who do you think will be entitled to forgiving? All humanity? Or the ones who deserve to be forgiven?, now I may ask you, do you know ?from the Quran please, not from buddah? who will be entitled to forgivness?

The way you describe hell is like you're saying that God is a tyrant.

Please stop manipulating/giving the wrong impression that what I stated in the movie is my descriptions, or I will corner you then expose your fallacies, to have merit in what you say prove to me first that the descriptions of hell in my movie is what I said not what Allah said, when you do that then we can take it from there.

Now a tyrant is one who don?t tell his people how he is going to punish them, he just take them by surprise, do you agree?

Like we're forced into believing in Him while God claims in the Quran that there is no compulsion in religion.

Exactly sir, now He has given us the freewill to believe or not, at the end of the day He told us that if you don?t believe this is what is going to happen because Allah ONLY CREATED us for that purpose, not to enjoy this life really.

So you have the freedom not to believe in Him and you know in advance that if His message is true then you will be barbecued, where is the compulsion then?,

for example a thief knows that he will go to jail if he steals, now is that compulsion for him "not to steal"?

God preaches LOVE, not violence. So I don't believe in a physical hell since I believe in a merciful and gracious God.

peace

Heart

So you don?t believe Allah in the Quran then, hence you are trying hard to find another meaning to His clear words, good for you, I hope you and me will be of those who deserve to be forgiven

Salam

unknownuser

I apologize man, i shouldnt have replied under influence. I just thought I remember you mentioned hadiths last time so it seemed kind of ironic when i remembered the hadith that gold will be pourn into your ears for listening to music, it just gets me in a bad mood when i think of those, and people that pick and choose which hadith to believe based on what they want

No wories bro, I love music man and I can't see anything wrong with it, what I see wrong is singing words that do not make sense, like "you're my heart, you're my soul" oh yeh, utter BS bro, especially when a homo singer sing this to a woman in his video clip, whole crap man, this is clear cut deception and ironically most people buy this deception I call singing with BS and unrealistic words "Laghaw Al hadith" an expression used in the Quran that truely means utter BS

Cheers man

unknownuser

Someoen has deleted a comment in this thread directed to Adole and Magi

now this is rediculous indeed

you can't take free speech hey

again what I said to them was based on the Quran that while they are now showing bravery against God, if what is in the Quran is 100% right then on the JD both of them will do nothing but crying hard, this is what the Quran told us and the verse was in the movie

now I give the admin my permission to delete the above comment but I hope the admin shows bravery and tell us why my comment was deleted and not staying anonymous

Cheers

prpoerbly because its you flashing your usual judgemental poppycock. You still fail to see that you own brain does the interpretation, and then you go on to think. that if that interpretation that feels so right, so logic to you it must be because its the be all end all truth. I trust God mate, but i dont trust you. You are snide and judgemental, so you may know the book word by word, but you sure as hell aint getting what its saying. Know the horse on the way it walks!

Peace

unknownuser

Someoen has deleted a comment in this thread directed to Adole and Magi

now this is rediculous indeed

you can't take free speech hey

again what I said to them was based on the Quran that while they are now showing bravery against God, if what is in the Quran is 100% right then on the JD both of them will do nothing but crying hard, this is what the Quran told us and the verse was in the movie

now I give the admin my permission to delete the above comment but I hope the admin shows bravery and tell us why my comment was deleted and not staying anonymous

Cheers

prpoerbly because its you flashing your usual judgemental poppycock. You still fail to see that you own brain does the interpretation, and then you go on to think. that if that interpretation that feels so right, so logic to you it must be because its the be all end all truth. I trust God mate, but i dont trust you. You are snide and judgemental, so you may know the book word by word, but you sure as hell aint getting what its saying. Know the horse on the way it walks!

Peace

Excuse me sir, this is not the reply i was expecting, hmmm, are you an admin?

Oh yeh back to our old tricks, bloody confuse the damn subject

Salam

Samia

Imagine I have all the power over someone, i.e. that one is my slave , then I decided one day to test him with a tough test and in my mind will kill him if he fails the test, let?s assume the test is to run 2 miles in 5 minutes, here is the possibilities

I will not tell my salve at all that there will be any punishment and I will just kill him if he fails
I will only tell the slave that there will be a sort of punishment but will not tell him that I will kill him if he fails
I will tell the slave that I will kill him if he fails the test

Now please and logically speaking, which one of the above makes me the most merciful?

To me, non of the above. To your slave, it depends how he views you. If he already loves you because you have been merciful and kind to him, he will do the running , and carry out any order, out of love. He will not take your threat literalily, and will think that you are just encouraging him to do this hard job. But if he hates you, he will still do the running, but to the nearest police station.

unknownuser

Imagine I have all the power over someone, i.e. that one is my slave , then I decided one day to test him with a tough test and in my mind will kill him if he fails the test, lets assume the test is to run 2 miles in 5 minutes, here is the possibilities

I will not tell my salve at all that there will be any punishment and I will just kill him if he fails
I will only tell the slave that there will be a sort of punishment but will not tell him that I will kill him if he fails
I will tell the slave that I will kill him if he fails the test

Now please and logically speaking, which one of the above makes me the most merciful?

To me, non of the above. To your slave, it depends how he views you. If he already loves you because you have been merciful and kind to him, he will do the running , and carry out any order, out of love. He will not take your threat literalily, and will think that you are just encouraging him to do this hard job. But if he hates you, he will still do the running, but to the nearest police station.

Sister Samia

I'm not discussing the matter from the slave perespective, I'm discussing it from my persepctive assuming THAT I MUST TEST HIM

Salam

unknownuser

Someoen has deleted a comment in this thread directed to Adole and Magi

now this is rediculous indeed

you can't take free speech hey

again what I said to them was based on the Quran that while they are now showing bravery against God, if what is in the Quran is 100% right then on the JD both of them will do nothing but crying hard, this is what the Quran told us and the verse was in the movie

now I give the admin my permission to delete the above comment but I hope the admin shows bravery and tell us why my comment was deleted and not staying anonymous

Cheers

prpoerbly because its you flashing your usual judgemental poppycock. You still fail to see that you own brain does the interpretation, and then you go on to think. that if that interpretation that feels so right, so logic to you it must be because its the be all end all truth. I trust God mate, but i dont trust you. You are snide and judgemental, so you may know the book word by word, but you sure as hell aint getting what its saying. Know the horse on the way it walks!

Peace

Excuse me sir, this is not the reply i was expecting, hmmm, are you an admin?

Oh yeh back to our old tricks, bloody confuse the damn subject

Salam

Peace

Im sorry, what seems to confuse you?

unknownuser

Someoen has deleted a comment in this thread directed to Adole and Magi

now this is rediculous indeed

you can't take free speech hey

again what I said to them was based on the Quran that while they are now showing bravery against God, if what is in the Quran is 100% right then on the JD both of them will do nothing but crying hard, this is what the Quran told us and the verse was in the movie

now I give the admin my permission to delete the above comment but I hope the admin shows bravery and tell us why my comment was deleted and not staying anonymous

Cheers

prpoerbly because its you flashing your usual judgemental poppycock. You still fail to see that you own brain does the interpretation, and then you go on to think. that if that interpretation that feels so right, so logic to you it must be because its the be all end all truth. I trust God mate, but i dont trust you. You are snide and judgemental, so you may know the book word by word, but you sure as hell aint getting what its saying. Know the horse on the way it walks!

Peace

Excuse me sir, this is not the reply i was expecting, hmmm, are you an admin?

Oh yeh back to our old tricks, bloody confuse the damn subject

Salam

Peace

Im sorry, what seems to confuse you?

nothing bro, just forget it, i hope you enjoyed the movie

Salam

phoenix1

I remember when I was motivated by fear. Thank God that is no longer the case.

I second that!

peace

jonny_k

Peace all,

Again with Jahannam, Allah clearly described it to us from the point we will be resurrected where the showtime of Jahannam will start, many descriptions indeed

1 ) Its 7 doors and each has its allocated portion of sinners
2 ) Its Keepers and one is named ?Malik?, all the hell keeper are strong and rough with the hell dwellers
3 ) Its dwellers are from the Ins and the Jinn
4 ) The Zaqum Tree and its description
5 ) The shirts made of fire
6 ) The Lave poured on the heads
7 ) The burning skin that being replaced then burn again
8 ) The dialogues between the hell dwellers and its keepers
9 ) The dialogues between the hell dwellers and the Garden dwellers
10 ) The wish of the hell dwellers to die
11 ) The many escape trial they try then they brought back into hell
12 ) The arguments between the hell dwellers and other hell dwellers
13 ) The Garden dwellers looking physically on the some of the hell dwellers that they knew on earth
14 ) The desperation of the hell dwellers for water and for the decrease in punishment
15 ) And many more

How the hell, the hell can not be a real place and the One Who is telling all the above about it is the one who created it and is our only God?, isn?t His witness enough for those?

JK- Yes these are exactly the points i recall from reading the Quran over and over again. Thats why i wondered why anyone could come up saying heaven and hell are not TWO WORLDS/two environments/two matrices where one fells pain or enjoys. Brohter Arnold as a scientist knows the concept of Occam's Razor. I asked him to apply this on the text as well. People usually do not apply Occam's Razor to scripture which somehow bothers me. I believe even if your brought up in a neutral Arab enviroment , then read the Quran ull understand heaven and hell to be two separate places. Anyone who wants to do a real scientific study can do this with a group of people. Ofcourse one out of 100 may think differently but here we go for the more probable in the end. Testing just one person is obviously not enough. If the oppsoite shows up, id be surprised. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace "idolfree",

Peace be upon you,

I remember when I was motivated by fear. Thank God that is no longer the case.

JK- The fear for hell is not necessarily meant to be for a believer. Actually this is to give the believers comfort. Dont you fell bad that the bmillionaires and billionaires out there continue to kill, loot and rape because they do not believe in GOD and/or are hypocrites should be punished severely? Dont you think that they should fell the pain? I feel they do and it is only fair if they did. I see these verses both as an encouragement and also to remain on the right path which is a normal reaction. Moreover fear of GOD is emphasized in the Quran. Mankind are rational beings and they do whatever they do because of the consequences which theyd otherwise face be they direct or indirect. If i would be ultimately punished to do a good deed i would never do it, and remember that even good deeds are relative i.e. what we may think to be good is not necessarily so. Scientific experience has lead to a lot of realization of whts good and not. For example long ago it was alright to have sex with sisters. Then the law changed because of the genetic mutations. I had a long discussion on this with bro ARnold at http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/5847/222/ Please read it. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace bro "Ahmed Bahgat",
The flash representation was very nice. However i suggest you add a scene which shows when the people are burned to ashes, how GOD clothes them with new skin. ou mentioned the verse but although i waited for that scene it didnt occur. This is a very important factor and distinguishes this from other punishments. Infact ive never seen any movie showing people being burnt over and over again. Please add that scene. GOD Bless!

arnoldyasin

Peace all,

Again with Jahannam, Allah clearly described it to us from the point we will be resurrected where the showtime of Jahannam will start, many descriptions indeed

1 ) Its 7 doors and each has its allocated portion of sinners
2 ) Its Keepers and one is named ?Malik?, all the hell keeper are strong and rough with the hell dwellers
3 ) Its dwellers are from the Ins and the Jinn
4 ) The Zaqum Tree and its description
5 ) The shirts made of fire
6 ) The Lave poured on the heads
7 ) The burning skin that being replaced then burn again
8 ) The dialogues between the hell dwellers and its keepers
9 ) The dialogues between the hell dwellers and the Garden dwellers
10 ) The wish of the hell dwellers to die
11 ) The many escape trial they try then they brought back into hell
12 ) The arguments between the hell dwellers and other hell dwellers
13 ) The Garden dwellers looking physically on the some of the hell dwellers that they knew on earth
14 ) The desperation of the hell dwellers for water and for the decrease in punishment
15 ) And many more

How the hell, the hell can not be a real place and the One Who is telling all the above about it is the one who created it and is our only God?, isn?t His witness enough for those?

JK- Yes these are exactly the points i recall from reading the Quran over and over again. Thats why i wondered why anyone could come up saying heaven and hell are not TWO WORLDS/two environments/two matrices where one fells pain or enjoys. Brohter Arnold as a scientist knows the concept of Occam's Razor. I asked him to apply this on the text as well. People usually do not apply Occam's Razor to scripture which somehow bothers me. I believe even if your brought up in a neutral Arab enviroment , then read the Quran ull understand heaven and hell to be two separate places. Anyone who wants to do a real scientific study can do this with a group of people. Ofcourse one out of 100 may think differently but here we go for the more probable in the end. Testing just one person is obviously not enough. If the oppsoite shows up, id be surprised. GOD Bless!

Peace,

Trust me bro, i did use Occam's razor more then you know....

Navid

Just to make sure, I hope everyone knows that something "real" does not have to be something "physical."

Peace.

unknownuser

Peace All

Today is our party day, however our party will last for a few days looking at every occurrence of the word ?Mathal? or ?Mithl? in the Quran and we will see for ourselves how the Quran will slam dunk those metaphor activists

Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable-- (that of) a gnat or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say What is it that Allah means by this parable He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors,

(26)

-> Above we read that Allah ? is not ashamed to set forth any parable-- (that of) a gnat or any thing above that?, I have to ask those metaphor activists, Does the gnat exist for REAL?

Slam dunk # 1

Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.

(17)

-> Allah is telling us that dome humans are like another human who is igniting a fire ? Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire?, here is a couple of questions for those metaphor activists ,

a) Those humans Allah is talking about, do they exit for REAL?
b) Does a man igniting a fire exist for REAL?

Slam dunk # 2

And the parable of those who disbelieve is as the parable of one who calls out to that which hears no more than a call and a cry; deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they do not understand.

(171)

-> Now let me ask the followings

a) Do the Kuffar exist for REAL?
b) Does a human who calls out which hears no more than a call and a cry exist for REAL?
c) Do deaf, dumb (and) blind humans exist for REAL?

Slam dunk # 3

The parable of those who spend their property in the way of Allah is as the parable of a grain growing seven ears (with) a hundred grains in every ear; and Allah multiplies for whom He pleases; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing

(261)

-> Questions

a) Do those who spend their property in the way of Allah exist for REAL?
b) Do a grain growing seven ears (with) a hundred grains in every ear exist for REAL?

Slam dunk # 4

And the parable of those who spend their property to seek the pleasure of Allah and for the certainty 'of their souls is as the parable of a garden on an elevated ground, upon which heavy rain falls so it brings forth its fruit twofold but if heavy rain does not fall upon it, then light rain (is sufficient); and Allah sees what you do.

(265)

-> Questions

a) Do those who spend their property to seek the pleasure of Allah and for the certainty 'of their souls exist for REAL?
b) Does a garden on an elevated ground, upon which heavy rain falls so it brings forth its fruit twofold but if heavy rain does not fall upon it, then light rain exist for REAL?

Slam dunk # 5

Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.

(59)

-> From the Quran perspective, did Isa and Adam exist for REAL?

Slam dunk # 6

176- And if We had pleased, We would certainly have exalted him thereby; but he clung to the earth and followed his low desire, so his parable is as the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications; therefore relate the narrative that they may reflect.

177- Evil is the likeness of the people who reject Our communications and are unjust to their own souls.

(176)
(177)

-> Allah is talking about a bad human and giving us a parable of those bad human, questions

a) Do a bad human and a dog (if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue) exist for REAL? (176)
b) Do the people who reject Allah communications exist for REAL? (176 & 177)

Double slams

Slam dunk # 7
Slam dunk # 8

The slam dunk party will continue later inshaallah

Slam for now, sorry i mean Salam for now

CavemanDoctor

Ahmad,

You never responded to my Mathal post in the original thread. Why is that?

All these "slam dunk" examples don't really slam dunk anything. The only thing they show is that in a Mathal, at least one of the things mentioned in the comparison must exist for real. You yourself said this in the other thread.

What have you shown here? Yes, gnats, ears of grain, blind people, etc. exist for real. So what? In a Mathal comparison, at least one (but not necessarily both) sides of the comparison must exist for real. You yourself said this in the other thread

So when Allah makes a Mathal comparing Paradise to a real thing here on earth, it is possible for the Paradise example to not physically exist; BOTH SIDES OF THE COMPARISON DO NOT HAVE TO EXIST; Only one side of the comparison has to exist. Again, you yourself said this.

I don't understand why we keep having this discussion. I mean, it's like discussing 2+2 = 4. It's a fact that the Arabic language allows for various meanings of Mathal.

I know you are a native arabic speaker.
I know you say everyone else confuses issues.
I know you say we are commiting shirk and adding onto Allah's words.
I know you say you're allowed to see things as metaphors whenever YOUR common sense allows for it, but when others try to do the same, the're kuffar.

I know all these things.

But none of those things take away from the fact that the Arabic language is not NEARLY as restricted and narrow as you think it is. The language allows for it.

Peace.

unknownuser

Ahmad,

You never responded to my Mathal post in the original thread. Why is that?

All these "slam dunk" examples don't really slam dunk anything. The only thing they show is that in a Mathal, at least one of the things mentioned in the comparison must exist for real. You yourself said this in the other thread.

What have you shown here? Yes, gnats, ears of grain, blind people, etc. exist for real. So what? In a Mathal comparison, at least one (but not necessarily both) sides of the comparison must exist for real. You yourself said this in the other thread

So when Allah makes a Mathal comparing Paradise to a real thing here on earth, it is possible for the Paradise example to not physically exist; BOTH SIDES OF THE COMPARISON DO NOT HAVE TO EXIST; Only one side of the comparison has to exist. Again, you yourself said this.

I don't understand why we keep having this discussion. I mean, it's like discussing 2+2 = 4. It's a fact that the Arabic language allows for various meanings of Mathal.

I know you are a native arabic speaker.
I know you say everyone else confuses issues.
I know you say we are commiting shirk and adding onto Allah's words.
I know you say you're allowed to see things as metaphors whenever YOUR common sense allows for it, but when others try to do the same, the're kuffar.

I know all these things.

But none of those things take away from the fact that the Arabic language is not NEARLY as restricted and narrow as you think it is. The language allows for it.

Peace.

Salam bro

all these slam dunks will show that both parties are real

so i will retreat my statement to you before that with a quranic metaphor at least one of the parties must be real, now I say both parties must be real according to the quran context not according to any poet you know

and that is what I will show

I think we have about 35 slam dunks to go through

Thank you

unknownuser

Let's make it easy doctor

can you define a metaphor in simple terms to me?

cheers

noble

Peace
I wish to forcefully intrude here.
An example or parable are used to clarify or represent an event.
If the example is real, the event will have to be real.
What is the point of representing an event that will not exist?, Unless you are a scifi/fantasy writer.
The Quran is not a book of riddles.
OK, let us follow your argument

There is no real paradise
There is no real Hell
There is no real resurrection
There is no God
It is all allegorical, we just die, and that is all...
After all, Philosophers like Hegel said that there is no need for God anymore, because of the triumph of Human Reason, God is Dead, and Man is now God.
So make up your stories as you wish.
Ahmed and me, and other God conscious people take what Allah says in the Quran very seriously, without filters, pre-judgments or cultural bias. This is what serving Allah means.
It is but a warning to Mankind.
Noble