You Have Been Warned

Tay

Peace all,

Here's a thought

Is a lifetime of causing suffering = to an eternity of enduring suffering?

CavemanDoctor

Ahmad,

You never responded to my Mathal post in the original thread. Why is that?

All these "slam dunk" examples don't really slam dunk anything. The only thing they show is that in a Mathal, at least one of the things mentioned in the comparison must exist for real. You yourself said this in the other thread.

What have you shown here? Yes, gnats, ears of grain, blind people, etc. exist for real. So what? In a Mathal comparison, at least one (but not necessarily both) sides of the comparison must exist for real. You yourself said this in the other thread

So when Allah makes a Mathal comparing Paradise to a real thing here on earth, it is possible for the Paradise example to not physically exist; BOTH SIDES OF THE COMPARISON DO NOT HAVE TO EXIST; Only one side of the comparison has to exist. Again, you yourself said this.

I don't understand why we keep having this discussion. I mean, it's like discussing 2+2 = 4. It's a fact that the Arabic language allows for various meanings of Mathal.

I know you are a native arabic speaker.
I know you say everyone else confuses issues.
I know you say we are commiting shirk and adding onto Allah's words.
I know you say you're allowed to see things as metaphors whenever YOUR common sense allows for it, but when others try to do the same, the're kuffar.

I know all these things.

But none of those things take away from the fact that the Arabic language is not NEARLY as restricted and narrow as you think it is. The language allows for it.

Peace.

Salam bro

all these slam dunks will show that both parties are real

so i will retreat my statement to you before that with a quranic metaphor at least one of the parties must be real, now I say both parties must be real according to the quran context not according to any poet you know

and that is what I will show

I think we have about 35 slam dunks to go through

Thank you

I'm sorry? You're going to retract your statement from before? This doesn't have anything to do with the Qur'an. Don't get the issues "confused." This is pure language. You yourself admitted that only one of the things in the Mathal must be real.

Now you are changing that? Why? Because I made a statement that you cannot defeat?

Who is lying now? Who is being "clever"?

You cannot retract your statement. It doesn't even matter what you retract or dont retract. Sorry. This is a fact of the language. Accept it.

Stop thinking about judging everyone and calling everyone a kafir/mushrik for just one second and try to listen to what the person is saying.

I'm getting sick and tired of the rampant isolation and judgment on this board.

Fact. You are not God, so leave all the judgment to Him. By labelling anyone you disagree with as kuffar/mushrik, you are trying to steal God's authority and claim it for your own.
Fact. You are not the end-all be-all of all things Qur'anic.
Fact. You are not the only one who can decide what is "common sense" while calling others who do the same Kuffar.

CavemanDoctor

Let's make it easy doctor

can you define a metaphor in simple terms to me?

cheers

Metaphor too has many meanings.

Here's a good one n a figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity

unknownuser

Peace all,

Here's a thought

Is a lifetime of causing suffering = to an eternity of enduring suffering?

Peace Tay

Well, Allah told us the following

You die a disbeliever = an eternity of enduring suffering

I can't see "lifetime of causing suffering" you used fit in what Allah told us above

cheers

CavemanDoctor

Peace
I wish to forcefully intrude here.
An example or parable are used to clarify or represent an event.
If the example is real, the event will have to be real.
What is the point of representing an event that will not exist?, Unless you are a scifi/fantasy writer.
The Quran is not a book of riddles.
OK, let us follow your argument

There is no real paradise
There is no real Hell
There is no real resurrection
There is no God
It is all allegorical, we just die, and that is all...
After all, Philosophers like Hegel said that there is no need for God anymore, because of the triumph of Human Reason, God is Dead, and Man is now God.
So make up your stories as you wish.
Ahmed and me, and other God conscious people take what Allah says in the Quran very seriously, without filters, pre-judgments or cultural bias. This is what serving Allah means.
It is but a warning to Mankind.
Noble

I'm sorry, who are you again? I've never spoken to you so you really can't follow say that you're following my argument.

If you're referring to an argument made on the other thread, you've completely misrepresented it.

I never said the Qur'an is a book of riddles. Stop attacking straw men here. And don't misrepresent me.
Read this one carefully cause you and Ahmed don't seem to understand this EXCEEDINGLY simple point. Here, I'll put it in bold for you

I never said Paradise isnt real. Please show me where I have.
I never said Hell isnt real. Please show me where I have.
I never said resurrection isn't real. Please show me where I have.
I sure as hell never said God isn't real. Please show me where I have.

I never said those things werent real. I simply said "real" doesn't have to mean "physical." Do you see the amazingly simple difference? Or are you choosing to be blind to it?

You people seem to think that just cause I'm saying something isnt physical, it's not real. That is not logically always the case. Why do you think Im' saying Hell will just be peaches and cream? It will be torture; it will be misery; it will be the worst thing imaginable. I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything here. I'm not trying to lie and doubt Allah's words.

Are thoughts real? Answer please.
Are feelings real? Answer please
Are emotions real? Answer please
Are laws of the universe real? Answer please.

^ These above things are not PHYSICAL (i.e. you can't reach out and touch them) and yet they are VERY REAL.

So again, I repeat, I NEVER SAID HELL/HEAVEN/GOD/RESURRECTION ARENT REAL. They are VERY real.

I am not making up any stories. You are attributing lies to me.

And I take the Qur'an VERY seriously. I'd appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of not doing so, without even knowing me or what I've said.

You said you, Ahmed, and other God-conscious people. So you're trying to imply I'm not God-conscious? Again, how do you know this? Stop trying to usurp God's authority and pass judgment on others. Got it?

And finally, you so haughtily claim that you interpret the Qur'an without any filters, pre-judgments, and cultural biases? Please. That's IMPOSSIBLE to do. Any human reading the Qur'an will have at least some bias. Stop acting like you guys are above it all. Everyone comes to a text with their own preconceptions, including me.

I'm just sick and tired of this vitriol that so many people on here spew out of their mouths daily misrepresenation, straw men, straight lies, and judgment.

I'm really thinking about taking a brief hiatus from this board. It's really becoming too negative and just utterly devoid of logic. I don't normally get this worked up but you people are just going too far with your lies and misrepresentations.

"Peace."

Tay

Peace Caveman,

I would be saddened to lose another bright mind on this forum. If you need to take a break, then please only take a break from discussing with the individuals that are currently representing this negativity. Ahmed has admitted that he's not here to learn but he's here on a crusade to defeat what he(or his profiler) terms as the enemies of islam. That should speak volumes.

Peace,
Tay

Tay

Peace Ahmed,

OK then...

Is a lifetime of being a disbeliever = an eternity of suffering?

noble

Peace Bro
Why do you take things so personally, I was talking about those who deny Allah's message.
The fact is all you talked about, thought, feelings etc all are accounted for by physical phenomenon. Where does it start and where does it end.
So stop being worked up, I did not accuse you of anything.
What is real has to have a physical base in our universe. Now if you are saying that for now Paradise and Hell are not yet physical for us, I will agree. But they will sure be physical after JD, and as physical as portrayed in the Quran, albeit the words and examples used are using terminologies that refer to what we can understand.
Again I must stress that I had to let go of many many biases and filters before accepting the Message, and it was never easy. Let alone being called a Kafir by sunnis and shias (one even told me that my blood was halal), and fundamentalist by others.
Yes maybe you need a vacation.
So what does physical mean to you then?
Anyways I was not rersponding to your post in particular.
Being haughty is not a mark of a believer so far from me to be this way.
God speed
Noble

unknownuser

I'm sorry? You're going to retract your statement from before?

Bro

I was clear

Here it is again, no one will give an example of something UNLESS both sides are real for the one who is saying it however for the other one who is receiving it, one party MUST be known and that is why it was used to describe a party that is unknown, however even with the person hearing the metaphor I found in all cases in the Quran both parties are real

This is what a metaphor means for me and this is how the Quran used it all along

This doesn't have anything to do with the Qur'an. Don't get the issues "confused." This is pure language. You yourself admitted that only one of the things in the Mathal must be real.

Now you acting unreasonably, I retreated my statement and explained above what a metaphor means, are you gonna keep repeating my first wrong statement?

Now you are changing that? Why? Because I made a statement that you cannot defeat?

I?m not defeating your statements, I care less to do that, but what I care abot is to see the Arabic quran defeating and slam dunking your statements, now I?m backing up using the Quran why I had to retreat my statement

Who is lying now? Who is being "clever"?

I?m not a liar but I may be clever

You cannot retract your statement

LOL, no I can, any time I wish, now it?s getting funny

. It doesn't even matter what you retract or dont retract. Sorry. This is a fact of the language. Accept it.

Now it is not a fact of language, it is a fact of the Quran that in all metaphors used both parties are REAL

Stop thinking about judging everyone and calling everyone a kafir/mushrik for just one second and try to listen to what the person is saying.

It is not like I call it to everyone every hour, look if you see something I say that you think makes me Kafir or Mushrik, please bring it to my attention, I will appreciate your cooperation

I'm getting sick and tired of the rampant isolation and judgment on this board.

Stop crying please bro, I try always to do that when I cry

It is not like I have to accept what you say for you to stop

Fact. You are not God, so leave all the judgment to Him. By labelling anyone you disagree with as kuffar/mushrik, you are trying to steal God's authority and claim it for your own.

silly try by you doctor, unfortunately labelling others can not be judgment, I label others according what they say against Allah using His words, and this is a duty on anyone who submitted to Him

Fact. You are not the end-all be-all of all things Qur'anic.

LOL, what are you trying to say exactly doctor?

Look doc, I have every right to state my opinion, at least I back it up using the Quran unlike those who back their non sense and blasphemy using some freak philosophers

Fact. You are not the only one who can decide what is "common sense" while calling others who do the same Kuffar.

again doc, what are you tryin to say exactly?, hmmmm,, I never claimed the above

I think you need a Valum pill doctor, that is easy for you to get, but only one please don?t take many

cheers

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed,

OK then...

Is a lifetime of being a disbeliever = an eternity of suffering?

Yes, that is what Allah told us exactly in the Quran HOWEVER and this is BIG however, He reserved His right to remove those from Hell, anytime He wishes

would you like to see the verses?

Cheers

unknownuser

Peace
I wish to forcefully intrude here.
An example or parable are used to clarify or represent an event.
If the example is real, the event will have to be real.
What is the point of representing an event that will not exist?, Unless you are a scifi/fantasy writer.
The Quran is not a book of riddles.
OK, let us follow your argument

There is no real paradise
There is no real Hell
There is no real resurrection
There is no God
It is all allegorical, we just die, and that is all...
After all, Philosophers like Hegel said that there is no need for God anymore, because of the triumph of Human Reason, God is Dead, and Man is now God.
So make up your stories as you wish.
Ahmed and me, and other God conscious people take what Allah says in the Quran very seriously, without filters, pre-judgments or cultural bias. This is what serving Allah means.
It is but a warning to Mankind.
Noble

I'm sorry, who are you again? I've never spoken to you so you really can't follow say that you're following my argument.

If you're referring to an argument made on the other thread, you've completely misrepresented it.

I never said the Qur'an is a book of riddles. Stop attacking straw men here. And don't misrepresent me.
Read this one carefully cause you and Ahmed don't seem to understand this EXCEEDINGLY simple point. Here, I'll put it in bold for you