The Tragedy of TYRANNICAL-minds (formerly 'free-minds')
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Peace
I agree with you phoenix, but at the same time mquran is right about the fairness thing. I've experiences this myself a few times; it seems that some people get this privilege to not respond to my arguments completely, but when I even THINK about doing the same it automatically is a no-no. Also, it is painfully obvious that a few people here have an agenda. They're not here to discuss things to get as close as possible to the truth, rather, they are here to subtly mock people and convince others of their beliefs.
I disagree with you on the kafir thing. Yes, some people do this, but I wish freeminds wasn't associated with them. I, for one never discriminate anyone for their beliefs. It is very possible to have a nice discussion with say, a Christian. In fact, this has happened before. I remember there was a very fruitful discussion between oneway and CavemanDoctor. I admired oneway very much; he brought up good points and responded to every single one of CavemanDoctor's arguments, and no discrimination between them happened. It seems to me that SOME people (won't name names) with different beliefs such as oneway, now are different than one way in the way they post. This is why all this has started. If others discussed things the way oneway did, I'd imagine that none of this would happen. However, that's not the case. As I stated earlier, a few people have hidden agendas and this makes the discussions worse because they don't discuss in the proper manner.
Sorry for the rant. Peace.
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PhoenixWhat you are doing, and you might not want to be doing this, is discouraging questions. This kind of talk will only discourage people to ask tough questions because they will be "attacking" the Quran.
How ? I was the one who asked certain people to bring their questions so we can discuss them. What was given instead was a mockery of discussion.
Phoenix , get this straight please I am in favour of discussions but
muscle handshake bravo rotfl yaywithout any substance constitutes mockery by people as blur and shallow as a muddy ditch. The believers are being mocked and unless they take a stand and say 'we dont take crap in this forum', we will continue to be in this state.
PhoenixBut I don't mind people saying "the quran is an outdated book because of this verse..." because then people can discuss the verse.
My first response to this is 'outdated compared to what'. No rejector has ever dared to answer this.
But instead of people discussing the actual verses, it becomes an issue of whether you have "faith" in the quran or not.
This is a baseless remark. Few people here are so shallow. People don't discuss the actual verses for simple reason The rejectors DO NOT DARE to answer. They are here to mock.
A good tactic is simply to disappear (go shopping or on vacations), return and forget a discussion ever took place. These eunuchs of apologetics are a disgrace. Please don't say anyone accuses them of lack of faith. No one cares.
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agree fully that the priority is upon each of us to dedicate our words, actions, possesions, and our very lives to service of the Lord of the Worlds.
I believe your dissapointment is partially caused by your desire to change what cannot be changed...
We have been told by the Almighty that most people do not believe in God...We have been told that most of those who believe do so while setting-up partners...We have been told that many follow Satan and believe they are guided...
Therefore, if this forum is only a small reflection of the
real worldthen we should come to expect this large mix of people.The solution is not to lock everyone out, but to react in the manner that God has told us...
When someone is being ignorant, simply let them be and respond to them with `peace'.
When the Quran is being ridiculed or mocked, then the discussion is to be abondoned/walked-away from until the theme of talk changes.
When we speak, we should be truthful and sincere...
A good word is like a good tree which spreads and multiplies, while a bad word is like a bad tree which is uprooted from the gorund.
The goal is not this life of vanity and arrogance, but that the real goal is the abode of the Hereafter.
This worldly life is nothing more than games and a diversion, and the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are righteous. Do you not understand?(632)Layth, my disappointment is with lack of progress but you're right Some people cannot be changed, this is promised in AQ itself. However, you need to look at what you're putting out into the world here. People come here expecting a discussion on AQ with the respect any ideology deserves yet they get to statements like Musa, Isa and Muhammad were possibly MADMEN. No answer was given, no indictments were made. Don't forget Layth that whatever we facilitate, we're responsible for (4/85). Some people are using this forum to psychologically gratify themselves. However at the end of the day, it's your choice. My post is merely a reminder. Perhaps I need to leave and start in the real world...
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peace
The thing is that this forum, like everyother forum, will have it's share of immature idiots. There is nothing we can do about that.
What's happened to this forum is that it isn't a small forum with only a few regular posters any more.mquran,
I understand you, but we can't say that everyone should treat the Quran as a divine book. In fact, no one here should because no one here knows exactly what the Quran is saying (in it's totality). The only possibility, then, is to look at it as nothing more than a book written a millenium ago. We can only read it and discuss it and decide whether it has divine qualities or not.
I'm not saying we should change our beliefs, but just our attitude in discussing it with people who are skeptical about it's value to mankind (and I'm one of them, I guess). -
Peace MQ,
I have decided to delete my post in this thread.
For one, I already know the reaction I will get for it. Second of all, it is not something that hasn't been said before. It will not change anything with these people as Layth has already pointed out.
Peace,
Damon. -
Peace all genuine guidance seekers
I think the appropriate response was in Layth's post.
May I add from memory in the Quran Do not insult what they associate with God, lest in their ignorance they will insult God Himself.
So the best strategy is to ignore the deaf, dumb, blind, as they will not return.
To them their Deen and to me mine...
Salam -
Dear Believers in Al-Quraan (AQ)
I have refrained from posting in FM for the last month or so although I have kept up-to-date with the topics being discussed. This hiatus has given me an opportunity to reevaluate Free-Minds and thus offer my humble opinions as to how I believe Free-Minds should be.
Free-Minds is the only forum on internet which does not presuppose that people who discuss AQ are automatically part of what is known in the world as 'the muslims'. This uniqueness is not iconic but serves as a platform from which we can launch into the deepest recesses of al-quraan. I cherish that platform and I hope you do as well
However, as Allah has promised, al-baathil/falsehood will gather like scum before being washed away by the ever-flowing al-haqq (13/17) and so it is the case with every human situation including forum which has become infested with certain individuals who do not or choose not to understand what this forum is about.
As Layth has defined Free-Minds as 'has been created for all people who have a desire to allow God into their lives and follow His path alone..' and that this is 'is fully outlined in the final Book of God (The Quran) which was revealed centuries ago...'
This implies that al-quraan has to be treated in the most reverent manner in this forum. It is up to the moderators to enforce this but - and I address this to people who believe in al-quraan as it should be believed in (henceforth known as 'believers'- it is up to us uphold solidarity and disallow people who treat al-quraan as a jest to gain any footing and continue their campaign of diversion.
Please note This is NOT a suggestion to stop stop allowing criticisms of AQ. Criticisms of AQ can help us to see just how invulnerable AQ is. Rather, this is a suggestion to insert fairness into a discussion. I have noticed that under the guise of freedom, much disparagement has been hurled at AQ. When the disparagement was challenged, we're either stonewalled or maligned. We believers , including the owner and moderators themselves have been made the victims in a domain which swears to uphold God's book.
The problem? We refuse to judge by al-quraan. We have chucked away the shackles of traditionalism but have tacitly imported the shackles of modernism. We are told that AQ proposes laws which are barbaric and out-of-date and yet we still call people who say this as 'brother' or 'sister'. Is this right?
AQ
Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, , and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray. (4/60)Allah is clearly telling us what these critics are all about. If you do not wish to refer to Allah, by definition you wish to refer to at-taghuut (authority figures who TRANSGRESS) and yet these people are openly telling the believers to do so. AQ tells us that this is shaitaan's wish.
If we need more proof, we are told by some of these people that their indulgence in alcohol is OK and that they find triumph from influencing people to consume alcohol. Alcohol, part of al-khamr or intoxicants is the work of ASH-SHAITAAN and we are to steer clear away from it (5/90-91). If anyone disagrees with AQ, fine but should believers be made to listen to their satanic discourses in the believer's own area?
What happens when we do not judge according to Allah's will? We become fasiqeen (5/47) and will any be destroyed EXCEPT the fasiqeen (46/35)
I have chosen to be inactive for the simple reason that I feel my responses will be obfuscated by their volume of non-believers in this forum. Until we the believers take charge and say, this is a QURANIC forum and if you want to discuss, discuss under Quran's rules, no progress shall be made. Do not be afraid to label people who advocated kufr as they should be labelled and treat them as they choose to be treated.
Do not let free-minds become TYRANNICAL-minds.Wasalam.
Salam Mquran,
I certainly agree with you bro, from last couple of months this place is a mess. If it doesnt change soon, many folks like you will leave and the nonbelievers will shadow this place.
A sad ending for a nice place like this.
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Salaams,
I was wondering where mquran has got to -good to see you still active Br.
Salaams.
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I dont think you guys need to inject our spiritual beliefs so much into this debate, because at this debate's core is this In a forum there are sometimes people called 'trolls', when a troll appears it is warned not to cause trouble, if the troll continues to harass people or not contribute anything worthwile to the forums then it is banned. Simple as that. Banning trolls keeps the forum clean and friendly. Not banning anyone out of fear of being called a dictator or whatever will ultimately lead to a chaotic and very unfriendly forum. So its the administrator's choice really.
There is the real world and there is a forum, lets not get things mixed up, but if you really want to play at analogies, in the real world when people commit crimes they get sent to prison, know what I mean?
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Mehdi believe the dissapointment is due to the haughtiness who continuely believe they are better than... and cointuely call others disbelievers... or kaufar.. etc.. this form of arrogance has it's own punishment... even if it's as small as a sense of dissapointment in others.. which in itself is a form of arrogance.. and none submission to the will of Allah..
Mehdi, it's no surprise that you'd say this given your lackadiscal attitude about responsibility. Shooting your mouth off and refusing to define your own terms is your trademark.
AQ commands us to call certain people 'al-kafiroon'. So will you reject Allah's command?
Arrogance was the fall of Ibilis...
Arrogance is when you refuse to even face criticism. When you take the time to answer and your opponent acts like you or Enquirer, thats not arrogance. That's a justified demand.
so with that said... Mquran.. knock if off! will ya... stick around... the runner will always run... why not face it and deal with it correctly..
I'd be happy to stick around but where insults are being hurled towards AQ and whenever believers (once again, please note how im using the word as in my first post) defend it, they are ignored or abused, then it's not the best use of my time.
whatever desicion you make... peace be on you.. and please don't be so quick to judge...
For a guy who wasnt here during the 'quranic divinity' season, you're telling me not to be 'quick to judge'? But whatever..peace.
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In my village - now long gone - there's an anecdote about people who allow their chickens, nay encourage thier chickens to their neighbours gardens so that when the chickens leave their droppings, its the neighbours who'll have to clean it up. So if their neighbours are too busy or there is just too many droppings, the neighbours house will look like one big faeces dump. Going into another persons domain, leaving your droppings and ignoring them isn't cool.
Sadly,this is what happens in FM.
It's a shame because FM started out well but inevitably attracted the wrong sort of crowd verbal defecators who came, left their droppings and went to other spots to leave even more droppings. In this thread itself we can see Mr Mehdi coming up with an opening remark only to show a consipicous lack of arguments. One wonders what book he relies on because opening AQ is never on his agenda. He even called FM 'a sect about nothing' yet he is still here.
AQ isn't 'nothing'. It's our chosen belief system and we have the right to display it in the most positive manner despite Mehdi, Enquirer, Lote-tree, Danish and others like them.
Criticism is a good thing. There's no harm per se in saying 'AQ is an old book, not suitable for modern times' but if you're going to say it, stand by it. What is modernity and why is it our criteria? This the critics of AQ have refused to face. This isn't about accepting AQ as divine, this is about decency. Are you decent enough to respect your discussion partner or debate opponent? Many people here are not. They are here to simply exalt in their 'transcendence' of religion. They say they have 'evolved' but I say they are devolved because evolved individuals are honest, decent and responsible.
It's time for me to hibernate again, with my own projects etc. For the believers in this forum, lets think about how we can clean up this forum. If we cannot do it via authority, perhaps a show of solidarity?
Thanks for your time.
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Salam.
If nothing, let's start with this at least, let's agree to disagree on certain things, we don't need to call each other names, we don't need to argue, we don't need to fight, just agree to disagree and then let's open a new topic.
May Allah Most Wise, Most High, guide us all to Heaven.
Salam.