FEARING "ALLAH"
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peace
um...S2S is a "she."
God controls universal law. It is this law (cause and effect) that we should live by. We are not to fear a being that will come down from the clouds and smite us. We are to fear the might of God. What CAN happen as a result of our actions.
If we fear that, we will be careful with our actions and with our beliefs. This is what I think right now. -
Thanks Phoenix lol
I also wasn't trying to make fun of anyone and if you took it that way, Danish I apologize. That's not my style...
Oh and I also wasn't speaking on behalf of anyone either.
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Hi Danish,
Thanks
I find it reassuring that you respect my style of discussion, I'll try to keep it that way
Though my views might change, but that's not necessarily a bad thingNadeem
Good deal, Nadeem. Views do change over time and have yet to come across who hasn't. My own life story is one gigantic roller coaster. Knowledge and logic combined is something that cannot be bought and only ends with time. Like it or not, but all this Allah and God business has made my life think twice; Twice Bitten, Once Shy!
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Peace Danish
Reverence, awe and veneration does NOT mean two kinds of fears ...
???
I didn't say awe and veneration mean two kind of fears. They both belong to the same kind, anyway.I'll try in other words two of the noumerous concepts involved in religion are called using the same word, fear, but they have different meaning, 'fear of God' it is not to be afraid of God but reverence, awareness, etc, and apart from that there is a component of fear in religion, the fear of punishment or hell. Both meanings coexist but are separated. I see them as 'points' of the doctrine.
Maybe I can't convey this to you correctly, perhaps one has to have been into it, indoctrinated in it to see them separated. I don't 'follow' those concepts anymore but I understand them, I know how they are seen by Catholics at least.
Do you think that "GOD" is a known or and unknown deity? This question directly relates to "fearing Allah
This crucial question got left out.In my surely imperfect idea of God, God is not a deity for me or a strange entity. I just can imagine God as the ultimate cause.
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Peace Elena,
I don't know if your definition of fearing God fits into the quran. The word used for fearing God and fearing other things is the same, but I may be wrong on this...don't know much about arabic.and I think your last line sums up the problem. People see "God" as some being out there in space. Not only thiests but athiests who go around denouncing this God being. There is no supernatural being.
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Peace,
People see "God" as some being out there in space. Not only thiests but athiests who go around denouncing this God being. There is no supernatural being.
God is a figment of our imagination. Man created all sorts of physical gods to sanctify and worship them in various forms, shapes and sizes to role-play their imaginations. Allah is one such god. People fought for their gods and humans as lords and battled for power, prowess and prejudice, which is clearly seen today, even among animal life. Communities were formed and laws drawn and written out to justify their godly beliefs. All affairs stemming out from such beliefs are nothing more than what reality dictated and carried over from one community to another, advancing, excelling, challenging and changing with time as humans became smarter while maintaining the foundation of underlying principles in which it is built. If there was a "real" god, then the need for these physical ones wouldn't arise nor the attributes associated with and stamped upon them by man himself. Man can only perceive and vision an ?imaginary maker? of our reality and the cosmological realm in which we ourselves can only understand and live through, including life and death. In this imagery then, there is "no god but God and to each his own" which became a 'prophetic' gesture. ?Fearing Allah? is historically and concurrently correct and realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect.
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Danish God is a figment of our imagination. Man created all sorts of physical gods to sanctify and worship them in various forms, shapes and sizes to role-play their imaginations. Allah is one such god. People fought for their gods and humans as lords and battled for power, prowess and prejudice, which is clearly seen today, even among animal life. Communities were formed and laws drawn and written out to justify their godly beliefs. All affairs stemming out from such beliefs are nothing more than what reality dictated and carried over from one community to another, advancing, excelling, challenging and changing with time as humans became smarter while maintaining the foundation of underlying principles in which it is built. If there was a "real" god, then the need for these physical ones wouldn't arise nor the attributes associated with and stamped upon them by man himself. Man can only perceive and vision an ?imaginary maker? of our reality and the cosmological realm in which we ourselves can only understand and live through, including life and death. In this imagery then, there is "no god but God and to each his own" which became a 'prophetic' gesture. ?Fearing Allah? is historically and concurrently correct and realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect.
How interesting. Didn't you once claim that some of our positions were getting in the way of the worship of God? Have you suddenly decided there is no god at all?
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Man can only perceive and vision an ?imaginary maker? of our reality and the cosmological realm in which we ourselves can only understand and live through, including life and death.
Actually, many people consider believing in an unseen being as a leap of faith and need to be convinced before believing in such a notion. So your idea of man perceiving an imaginary maker in order to cope with this world is highly flawed.
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How interesting. Didn't you once claim that some of our positions were getting in the way of the worship of God? Have you suddenly decided there is no god at all?
Wouldn't you claim that once you were a 5 year old kid and now "grown" in age? Have you suddenly decided to get old, bold and cold?
This entire thread has been dedicated to and dealt with your bickering of "How is the fear of Allah realistically, logically and scientifically incorrect?", which you tastelessly and unstylishly thumped it on another thread diverting the subject and attention therein to drive your unprecedented and foolish responses home. You have yet to prove and explain yourself otherwise, HERE and THERE
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c554f7a5fabee1e0c1f8149be2365ec8&topic=6296.300 -
Man can only perceive and vision an ?imaginary maker? of our reality and the cosmological realm in which we ourselves can only understand and live through, including life and death.
Actually, many people consider believing in an unseen being as a leap of faith and need to be convinced before believing in such a notion. So your idea of man perceiving an imaginary maker in order to cope with this world is highly flawed.
How does one believe in an unseen and unknown entity or anything for that matter? Explain to me the difference between "believing in an unseen and unknown entity" to that of "believing in an imaginary one", before you claim it as highly flawed?
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One believes in something unseen through inspection of whatever the subject matter is. We don't see gravity but we know it is there through the effects of it and various manipulations of the environment.
But that was my point. It's not a natural response to start believing in something unknown and unseen. One would have to make a leap of faith no matter how much evidence one gathers from the environment. In the end, nobody has seen "gravity" but we believe that the laws of gravity exist thru the advancement of physics, and so can conclude that gravity does exist.
you are coming with the assumption that mankind uses an "imaginary maker" as a crutch to understand the world, while the history of mankind proves otherwise. There would be absolutely no advancements in any field of science if that were the case. We would only have many gods from every community and no need or reason to understand the world around us because those gods can manipulate us in any which way they please. We would be enclaves of people using different means to appease the gods. If you look at the Church's history, you will see they were very much against any advancements of science because it undermined their authority. Whereas if you looked at the early Islamic Empire, advancements in the sciences and philosophy flourished. One stifled the thought process of mankind through it's made-up fairy tales and power struggles, while the other did not because the quran encourages science through learning and questioning the world around us. You should read the quran sometime.
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One believes in something unseen through inspection of whatever the subject matter is. We don't see gravity but we know it is there through the effects of it and various manipulations of the environment.
But that was my point. It's not a natural response to start believing in something unknown and unseen. One would have to make a leap of faith no matter how much evidence one gathers from the environment. In the end, nobody has seen "gravity" but we believe that the laws of gravity exist thru the advancement of physics, and so can conclude that gravity does exist.
you are coming with the assumption that mankind uses an "imaginary maker" as a crutch to understand the world, while the history of mankind proves otherwise. There would be absolutely no advancements in any field of science if that were the case. We would only have many gods from every community and no need or reason to understand the world around us because those gods can manipulate us in any which way they please. We would be enclaves of people using different means to appease the gods. If you look at the Church's history, you will see they were very much against any advancements of science because it undermined their authority. Whereas if you looked at the early Islamic Empire, advancements in the sciences and philosophy flourished. One stifled the thought process of mankind through it's made-up fairy tales and power struggles, while the other did not because the quran encourages science through learning and questioning the world around us. You should read the quran sometime. )
Absolutely RUBBISH!!! Not only highly but TOTALLY flawed. You certainly do not know what you are talking about. People are gone nuts and bent over backwards to prove their "Allah", locked up at kaba, right around the center of our earth for ONLY Muslims to pay heed to, from where this "Allah" business all began. I must leave now for an appointment and shall come back and prove to you how desperately wrong you are.
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Absolutely RUBBISH!!! Not only highly but TOTALLY flawed. You certainly do not know what you are talking about. People are gone nuts and bent over backwards to prove their "Allah", locked up at kaba, right around the center of our earth for ONLY Muslims to pay heed to, from where this "Allah" business all began. I must leave now for an appointment and shall come back and prove to you how desperately wrong you are.
Oh wow I think you completely read my post backwards and upside down then. Perhaps you need to try re-reading. I never even mentioned anything about muslims trying to prove that God exists, but yes they do try to prove it and convince others of it as well. Why? Because it is a leap of faith to believe in an unknown being and must be rationalized through inspection.
Here's my quote again in case you were standing on your head the first time you read it
ctually, many people consider believing in an unseen being as a leap of faith and need to be convinced before believing in such a notion. So your idea of man perceiving an imaginary maker in order to cope with this world is highly flawed.
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Wouldn't you claim that once you were a 5 year old kid and now "grown" in age? Have you suddenly decided to get old, bold and cold?
Yes but people don't grow backwards as you did. You've devolved considerably. That insufferable arrogance must have something to do with it.
This entire thread has been dedicated to and dealt with your bickering of "How is the fear of Allah realistically, logically and scientifically incorrect?", which you tastelessly and unstylishly thumped it on another thread diverting the subject and attention therein to drive your unprecedented and foolish responses home.
And you have proven yourself incapable of answering the question which I must say, was obvious all along.
You have yet to prove and explain yourself otherwise, HERE and THERE
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c554f7a5fabee1e0c1f8149be2365ec8&topic=6296.300I have answered your question, if you feel dissatisfied, complain to the moderator quoting Rule 2. I'm not a coward like yourself, Danish.
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Peace Danish,
I don't think God (one universal being) is something that was invented by people. Why? because to the majority that makes no sense. People don't see things as one, they see things as seperate. It is ourselves against the world. The reality is that there is no world and there is no self. If the idea was wrong, science would prove it wrong. It hasn't, and the way I see it, science never will.
Just because people believe in myths doesn't change reality. Just because muslims think that God lives in a cubic structure doesn't change the reality. Maybe God is the wrong word, because of all the myths accociated with it.I think gravity is a good way to describe the concept of God (i said concept, not God itself). See, gravity is there. There is this force called gravity that keeps our feet touching the ground. Now people can explain that many different ways. They can make up all the things they like about it, call it whatever they want. All there ill founded ideas won't change the fact that gravity is what it is. Some people will say that gravity exists only in our head, and that our feet just stay on the ground because that's just the way it is.
All that won't make gravity a myth. Because people have experienced it, they do everyday. It is something that the world cannot exist without. Is it just a figment of people's imagination? or is it something people experience when they transcend their imaginations?The fact is not that all the spiritual people in the world are wrong, but it's just that you don't understand us.
Yes, there's no being that lives in a box, or in the sky, or wants us to fear it and worship it. Yes, there are no miracles and supernatural stuff and there's no unknown part outside "creation" that we cannot know.
In fact, what your signature says is also wrong, there is no destiny.
You can attack the a specific idea of God, but you can't attack everything that people associate with that word.
So be careful. Because Einstein used the word God as well. So did Socrates. So did Gandhi. -
One believes in something unseen through inspection of whatever the subject matter is. We don't see gravity but we know it is there through the effects of it and various manipulations of the environment.
But that was my point. It's not a natural response to start believing in something unknown and unseen. One would have to make a leap of faith no matter how much evidence one gathers from the environment. In the end, nobody has seen "gravity" but we believe that the laws of gravity exist thru the advancement of physics, and so can conclude that gravity does exist.
I have come across this ?gravity? excuses several times in the past and recently as well, where Muslims display unrelenting addiction to this scenario they present and now the same pattern is seen here by some members. If humans were to settle on moon, they will monkey-in on their 'un-gravitational' or some other moony phenomenon to bring about some bizarre tales to explain an unseen and unknown GOD.
Gravity is unseen no doubt, but then don?t forget that it is KNOWN and FELT in the very presence we live in, otherwise you wouldn't know what gavity is to begin with. We KNOW that a mass of earthly body pulls and keeps everything intact and hence its inspections, experimentations and determinations. Other examples of similar cases are wind is unseen but known and felt, thoughts are unseen but known and felt, pain is unseen but known and felt, and so forth. All such examples are inspected, experimented and determined upon, where immeasurable inventions and innovations have been advanced and demonstrated for our own existential purpose by MAN HIMSELF (that includes atheists and other ?disbelivers?) by dictation and knowledge of our world around (REALITY).
GOD is purely an UNKNOWN and UNSEEN entity and so is a SOUL. I mention ?entity? because neither you nor I or any human has any idea whatsoever of who or what this ?entity? is. If you have FOUND this entity by mere inspection, then let me know WHO and WHAT it is? Having said this, how then is it possible to inspect, experiment and determine anything that is beyond our imagination and absolutely dumbfounded, yet you make this bizarre claim of inspecting such an entity? What tools of inspection and experiments are you going to delve on, to find exactly what this entity is? The only tool you have is your brains to inspect such an ?entity? and that too won?t work? It is nothing more than a mythical one. In other words, a made-up tale, in as much as, when people THINK that this entity may be this or may be that, or Allah this and Allah that, just running around in all directions like herds chased by a wolf.
you are coming with the assumption that mankind uses an "imaginary maker" as a crutch to understand the world, while the history of mankind proves otherwise.
?Imaginary maker? is an assumption itself, LOL. I have already given the answer to your ?understanding the world? and other rants of your remaining post. Read and understand my previous posts on this thread please.
You should read the quran sometime.
And you must read yourself sometime.
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Gravity is unseen no doubt, but then don?t forget that it is KNOWN and FELT in the very presence we live in, otherwise you wouldn't know what gavity is to begin with. We KNOW that a mass of earthly body pulls and keeps everything intact and hence its inspections, experimentations and determinations.
Actually mankind didn't KNOW of gravity. This is a relatively new concept to mankind. You KNOW of it because you now take it for granted to be fact, just as others took other theories as fact centuries ago. Alchemists and the like used to believe we were swirling around in some sort of unseen substance and we were just heavy so we sunk to the bottom. The fact of the matter is that we KNOW that gravity exists because scientists do not inspect IT but rather they inspect the environment. They come up with laws that govern our environment through calculations and have named them "gravity".
Similarly we are not to inspect an unseen being, but rather our universe, history, our anatomy, etc etc etc...
If you have FOUND this entity by mere inspection, then let me know WHO and WHAT it is? Having said this, how then is it possible to inspect, experiment and determine anything that is beyond our imagination and absolutely dumbfounded, yet you make this bizarre claim of inspecting such an entity? What tools of inspection and experiments are you going to delve on, to find exactly what this entity is? The only tool you have is your brains to inspect such an ?entity? and that too won?t work? It is nothing more than a mythical one. In other words, a made-up tale, in as much as, when people THINK that this entity may be this or may be that, or Allah this and Allah that, just running around in all directions like herds chased by a wolf.
Once again, here's a quote from me to help things along.
One would have to make a leap of faith no matter how much evidence one gathers from the environment.
Once again, I did not claim to KNOW an unknown entity by inspecting IT. Read carefully instead of rushing to erroneous conclusions.
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DanishAbsolutely RUBBISH!!! Not only highly but TOTALLY flawed. You certainly do not know what you are talking about. People are gone nuts and bent over backwards to prove their "Allah", locked up at kaba, right around the center of our earth for ONLY Muslims to pay heed to, from where this "Allah" business all began. I must leave now for an appointment and shall come back and prove to you how desperately wrong you are
S2S , I wouldn't think much of the underlined portion if I were you. This is the same person who doesn't know why 'the fear of Allah is realistically, logically and scientifically incorrect'. He pathetically tries to sound clever using hollow phrases, poor guy.