When the Call for Prayer is Heard
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peace Danish,
just because YOU think someone is redefining meanings doesn't make it so. Just because YOU think that jumma means Friday doesn't mean that it actually does.
A days ago, i thought you were asking sincere questions and were looking for a better understanding and a good debate. Now I can see that you don't want to understand a single thing the other side is saying. All you can do is post articles from wikipedia. well, here's one for ya
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_pastry
This proves that Danish is not a nameof a person but a name of a pastry from Denmark. When people see "danish" written somewhere, they don't think of you, they think of this pastry. Stop trying to reinvent names of people and pastries. If you take the flour, milk, yeast, and eggs out of a Danish, what is left? -
This thread is about 'Friday' and I've given my response. Please do some thorough research before reinventing and redefining religions. If you take all the myths, mystics and mysteries out of religions, what do you have?
<eye starts twitching>brickwall
That's a normal problem persisting in Islamic fascists and extremists. Keep Visine handy.
And please do some basic reading to understand what this thread is actually about.
In my short time posting on Free Minds, never have I known such a large number of users who simply do not read posts and just jump to whatever conclusion that tickles their fancy.
I would enjoy having a further discussion with the both of you regarding Friday, yawm, etc...
Speaks for itself.
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peace Danish,
just because YOU think someone is redefining meanings doesn't make it so. Just because YOU think that jumma means Friday doesn't mean that it actually does.
A days ago, i thought you were asking sincere questions and were looking for a better understanding and a good debate. Now I can see that you don't want to understand a single thing the other side is saying. All you can do is post articles from wikipedia. well, here's one for ya
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_pastry
This proves that Danish is not a nameof a person but a name of a pastry from Denmark. When people see "danish" written somewhere, they don't think of you, they think of this pastry. Stop trying to reinvent names of people and pastries. If you take the flour, milk, yeast, and eggs out of a Danish, what is left?Assuming that jummah meant 'assembly', it gives me more of a reason to stray away from paying allegeance to a man-made physical deity named Allah at Kaba which Muhammad took over. But Friday was the most significant day throughout history as mentioned above, hence until today we witness the Muslims assembling by the "call of allegeance" to venerate this auspicious day towards their deity. Besides, the myths, mystics and mysteries are to be taken out of "religions", not Friday, thus your analogy is somewhat twisted. rotfl
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I would enjoy having a further discussion with the both of you regarding Friday, yawm, etc...
Speaks for itself.
Taking things all out of context I see, Pheonix is right, you do not wish to resolve anything here, or have a civilized discussion, and we all know why you've chosen the name 'Danish'.
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Hello Public
I will take the chance of my first day of release from FM jail and respond to this thread, all my comments will be directed to the public until I compile a list of FM members that I will only respond to in public, all the others comments directed to me from (friends or foes) will be ignored ?They can only contact me privately if they wish?. The list (I will compile) will have only a few members that I feel comfortable discussing matters with based on certain criteria, it has nothing to do with them being friends of foes, it is based on my own criteria that I won?t reveal to anyone here, I guess it is my right though and I decided to inform you so you don?t direct a comment to me and you see me ignoring it, the reason I decided to change my way is simply due to the compelling evidences that some members here ill talk about me behind my back with others, this is a clear crime described in the Quran and it is called Ightiab and my only reply to those is simply I seek refuge by Allah from them.
The thread has a good point regarding two issues
- The word ?Noda?
- The word ?Jummah?
The word ?Noda? is a common Arabic word and incline only one consequence ?Hearing a voice?, I believe the word was used about 4 times in the Quran, in all locations it only meant that ?an audible call is made?, here is an example when Allah called Moses in the Valley of Towa
But when he came to the (fire), a voice was heard from the right bank of the valley, from a tree in hallowed ground ?O Moses! Verily I am Allah, the Lord of the Worlds....
(30)
-> Clear that the word Noda means calling other person(s) in an audible voice that can be heard, if we look at 629 we can see clearly that this is what it means, an audible call for the Salat is made and that call is heard by others
O you who believe! when the call is made for prayer on Friday, then hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leave off trading; that is better for you, if you know.
(9)
-> 629 was specific in the type of call, it clearly tells us that it is a call for the prayer ? ?, ? when the call is made for prayer?, there is no doubt that there is ONLY one thing that fits this call for prayers, IT HAS TO BE THE AZAN
a) It is audible for many
b) It calls for the Salat ?Haya Ala Al Salat?, ?Come and do the Salat?In fact the call for Salat has nothing to do with any specific assembly, it just happen that many will hear that audible call and they will pray together at least the main Salat, before and after the main Salat though, each one can pray individually as much as desired without being involved at all in any assembly. While being with the other believers in the same place of Salat, this is a clear example in how the Quran qualifies the hadith, now we can easily qualify all the hadith regarding the Azan if the pass they common sense test after they passed the Quran test.
The ones though who lack the simple basics of the Arabic language still promote their ignorance without any ?Kitab Munir?, ?Enlightening Book? but their own ?Hawa?, ?Desire?, they just want it to be that way, regardless it makes sense or not and regardless of the nill evidences they provide.
Now it is about time to shock them again, but hey, I use a ?Kitab Munir?, ?Enlightening Book?, I don?t use my low desires neither I want it to be the way I want to be.
They say ? ?, ?Yawm Al Jummah? means ?The day of assembly?, now the believers should ask them, ?bring your evidences if you are truthful?, however we want these evidences from a Kitab Munir, ?Enlightening Book? not motivated by their low desires nor this is how they want to be regardless.
? ?, ?Yawm Al Jummah only means one thing in Arabic indeed, it means ?The Day of Friday?, it can?t be anything else because of the Ta Marboota at the end, this means it is totally different word to the word seen in ? ? which means ?The day of assembly?
Let me put the two sentences under each other so those who lack Arabic can clearly spot the difference
-> ? ?, ?Yawm Al Jummah, it means ?The Day of Friday?
-> ? ?, ?Yawm Al Jameh?, it means ?The day of assembly?Now, let?s bring the evidences from Al Kitab Al Munir (The Enlightening Book)
The Day that He assembles you (all) for a Day of Assembly,- that will be a Day of mutual loss and gain (among you), and those who believe in Allah and work righteousness,- He will remove from them their ills, and He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever that will be the Supreme Achievement.
(9)
-> See, Allah assembles us for the Day of Assembly ? ?, ?Yawn Yajmaakum Li Yawn Al Jameh?, ? The Day that He assembles you (all) for a Day of Assembly?, why Allah didn?t say ? ?, if Yawm Al Jummah means the day of assembly?, the day of assembly truly describes the J D when we all will be assembled by Allah, obviously Yaw Al Jummah means something else and not the day of assembly.
Let?s look at another example for Al Kitab Al Munir
Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qur'an that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her,- and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire.
(7)
-> See what the prophet warned humanity from ? ?, ?Wa Tonzir Yawm Al Jameh?, ? and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly?, again if Yawm Al Jummah means the day of assembly as some are conjecturing, why Allah didn?t say ? ??, obviously because Yawm Al Jummah means something else
And finally, let me bring this verse about Al Kitab Munir as a source of evidences to argue the Ayaat of Allah
8- And among men there is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge and without guidance and without an illuminating book,
9- Turning away haughtily that he may lead (others) astray from the way of Allah; for him is disgrace in this world, and on the day of resurrection We will make him taste the punishment of burning
10- This is due to what your two hands have sent before, and because Allah is not in the least unjust to the servants.(
(9)
(10)So the question remains for those
Bring you proofs from any Kitab Munir if you are truthful but please from an enlighting book, not the book of the matrix
Salam Public
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the reason I decided to change my way is simply due to the compelling evidences that some members here ill talk about me behind my back with others, this is a clear crime described in the Quran and it is called Ightiab and my only reply to those is simply I seek refuge by Allah from them
I have noticed this a couple of times since coming onto this forum, I'm not sure if it was directed at you and I can't remember the exact culprits, but I did think it strange certain Muslims were protecting themselves in what they perceive to be their own argumentative weaknesses by mocking others (and redirecting the 'blame' during discussion, converse and fraternisation with non-Muslims. This is a common occurrence with less confrontational people on all kinds of forums but it cannot be tolerated if it is at the expense of another Muslim here.
Such conduct will lead to the eventual disintegration of the group as they allow troublemakers to come in and set divisions and enmity between them, it's not just a case of general backbiting (or Ightiab) but it's also this case of doing such with non-Muslims which is even worse.
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I would enjoy having a further discussion with the both of you regarding Friday, yawm, etc...
Speaks for itself.
Taking things all out of context I see, Pheonix is right, you do not wish to resolve anything here, or have a civilized discussion, and we all know why you've chosen the name 'Danish'.
What is there to resolve? Do you need an ancient book to teach you how to live your current life and that too finding it difficult to understand? What good is your mind, eyes and ears?
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Hello again Public
In addition to the above compelling evidences I provided from Al Kitab Al Munir, I found another compelling one from the same book,
The word ?Al Jummah? which some conjecture that it means ?Assembly? should be ?Al Jummataan? if put in dual format, this is due to the Ta Marbuta at the end, however the word ?Al Jameh? will be ?Al Jamaan? if put in dual format, this is due to the fact that the word Jummah is feminine while the word Jameh is masculine
I actually confirmed that the sentence ?Yawm Al Jameh? which mean ?the Day of Assembly? is mentioned 4 times in the Quran, and the dual format of the word ?Al Jameh? which means ?The Assembly? was also mentioned 4 times in the Quran, here is an example of the four it is about two assemblies met to fight each other
What ye suffered on the day the two armies met, was with the leave of Allah, in order that He might test the believers,-
(166)
-> See, ? ?, ?Yawm Iltaqa Al Jamaan?, ? on the day the two armies met?, the dual word ?Jamaan? was actually translated wrong as ?Armies? it should be ?Assemblies?, however it is logical to contextually translate it as ?Armies?
-> Now the question is, if ?Al Jummah? means ?The Assembly? then its dual format should be ?Al Jummataan? and looks like this ? ?, this is due to the Ta Marbuta at the end of the feminie word ?Al Jummah?, therefor and based on the 4 times the dual format of the word assembly was used, Jummah can not mean assembly rather it means something else
Salam Public
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I would enjoy having a further discussion with the both of you regarding Friday, yawm, etc...
Speaks for itself.
Taking things all out of context I see, Pheonix is right, you do not wish to resolve anything here, or have a civilized discussion, and we all know why you've chosen the name 'Danish'.
What is there to resolve? Do you need an ancient book to teach you how to live your current life and that too finding it difficult to understand? What good is your mind, eyes and ears?
I was about to ask the same thing from you, read posts before you reply to them in the future...
And another thing, you presume too much, you presume too much about me, you've put everyone here who doesn't conform to your views in the same boat and it is why we must be unanimous with the likes of you...
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Peace be upon you Danish,
It is unfortunate that you cant see how much we are the same, however you are letting your emotions regarding "religion" blind you from seeing the way through it.
This is a system of metaphors and such to help facilitate proper thinking. It deals with REAL everyday life when properly understood, and that is what we are moving to. Just like this topic, others want to say this is some ritualistic calling, but I am saying it is just as the normal everyday call to eat dinner. Nothing "mystic" about it.
We are not here to be brainwashed into beleiving in some "god" out there, we are just trying to remove the garbage within us so the GOD that is at the core of BEING can come forth. That very same GOD that percieves but cannot itself be precieved, that you have experienced your whole life. There is nothing "mystic" about that, and you can witness that for yourself.
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Danish,
QS.62/9-10 does not specifically refers to Friday, because jumu'ah means gathering, can be any time, not necesarily doing rituism.