Shabbir's findings on Ramadan
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The Babylonian calendar was a lunisolar calendar with years consisting of 12 lunar months, each beginning when a new crescent moon was first sighted low on the western horizon at sunset, plus an intercalary month inserted as needed by decree. The calendar is based on a Sumerian (Ur III) precedecessor preserved in the Umma calendar of Shulgi (ca. 21st century BC).
The year begins in spring, and is divided into re? ?atti "beginning", mi?il ?atti "middle", and k?t ?atti "end of the year". The name for "month" was arxu (status constructus arax). That the calendar originates in Babylonian, not Assyrian times is shown by the fact that the chief deity of the Assyrians is assigned the surplus intercalary month. During the 6th century BC Babylonian exile of the Hebrews, the Babylonian month names were adopted into the Hebrew calendar.
The names of the months were
Arax Nis?nu, Sumerian ITU BARAG.ZAG(.GAR) "month of the sanctuary", zodiacal sign KU (Aries) , dedicated to Anu and Bel
Arax ?ru, Sumerian ITU GUDDA.SIDI "month of the righteous bull", dedicated to Ea
Arax Simanu, dedicated to Sin, zodiacal sign BI(KA?) Gemini
Arax Du'uzu (DU.ZID, Dumuzi), dedicated to Adar
Abu, Sumerian NE.NE.GAR, zodiacal sign A (?ru, Leo)
Ul?lu, dedicated to Ishtar
Ti?-ri-tum, the Piel of ?urru "to begin", viz., "beginning of the second half-year", dedicated to Shamash. Sumerian ITU DU.U.AZAG
Arax-samna, Palrymenian Kan?n, Sumerian ITU APIN.GAB(.BA) "month of laying foundations", dedicated to Marduk, associated with Scorpio
Arax Kislimu, Sumerian ITU KAN.KAN.NA, dedicated to Nergal, associated with Sagittarius
Arax eb?tum, Sumerian ITU AB.BA.UD.DU "month of the forthcoming of water", dedicated to Pap-sukkal, zodiacal sign sax "ibex" (Capricorn?)
Arax ?abau, Sumerian ITU A?.A.AN, dedicated to Ramman, zodiacal sign GU q? (Aquarius?)
Addaru, Ad?r, Sumerian ITU ?E.KIN.DUD, dedicated to Dibbara the god of pestilence. In this month, Marduk is called "the fish of Ea", and the constellation/sign of Pisces may derive its name from this.
The inter-calary arax makaru?a Addari (Ve-ad?r), dedicated to Ashur
Until the fifth century BC the calendar was fully observational, but beginning about 499 BC the months began to be regulated by a lunisolar cycle of 19 years equaling 235 months. Although usually called the Metonic cycle, Meton (432 BC) probably learned of the cycle from the Babylonians. After no more than three isolated exceptions, by 380 BC the months of the calendar were regulated by the cycle without exception. In the cycle of 19 years, the month Adaru 2 was intercalated, except in the year that was number 17 in the cycle, when the month Ululu 2 was inserted. During this period, the first day of each month (beginning at sunset) continued to be the day when a new crescent moon was first sighted?the calendar never used a specified number of days in any month.References
Parker, Richard A. and Waldo H. Dubberstein. Babylonian Chronology 626 B.C.-A.D. 75. Providence, RI Brown University Press, 1956.
Structure of the Babylonian calendar
W. Muss-Arnolt, The Names of the Assyro-Babylonian Months and Their Regents, Journal of Biblical Literature (1892).
Sacha Stern, "The Babylonian Calendar at Elephantine" in Zeitschrift f?r Papyrologie und Epigraphik 130 (2000) 159-171 (PDF document, 94KB)]See also Zoroastrian calendar and hebrew calendar
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrian_calendar
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During which seasons were the months (Muharram, Ramadan, etc.) before intercalation was abandoned?
And what about in year 1 AH? -
Ramadan was decreed on us as it was on the people before us
There must be something in the past before Islam.
Moses remained there on the mountain with the Lord forty days and forty nights. In all that time he ate no bread and drank no water. And the Lord wrote the terms of the covenant?the Ten Commandments ?on the stone tablets. (NLT)
Deuteronomy 918Then, as before, I threw myself down before the Lord for forty days and nights. I ate no bread and drank no water because of the great sin you had committed by doing what the Lord hated, provoking him to anger. (NLT)
2 Samuel 1216-17David begged God to spare the child. He went without food and lay all night on the bare ground. 17 The elders of his household pleaded with him to get up and eat with them, but he refused. (NLT)
Nehemiah 14When I heard this, I sat down and wept. In fact, for days I mourned, fasted, and prayed to the God of heaven. (NLT)
Ezra 821-23And there by the Ahava Canal, I gave orders for all of us to fast and humble ourselves before our God. We prayed that he would give us a safe journey and protect us, our children, and our goods as we traveled. For I was ashamed to ask the king for soldiers and horsemen to accompany us and protect us from enemies along the way. After all, we had told the king, ?Our God?s hand of protection is on all who worship him, but his fierce anger rages against those who abandon him.? So we fasted and earnestly prayed that our God would take care of us, and he heard our prayer. (NLT)
Ezra 106Then Ezra left the front of the Temple of God and went to the room of Jehohanan son of Eliashib. He spent the night there without eating or drinking anything. He was still in mourning because of the unfaithfulness of the returned exiles. (NLT)
Esther 416Go and gather together all the Jews of Susa and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. My maids and I will do the same. And then, though it is against the law, I will go in to see the king. If I must die, I must die. (NLT)
Psalms 3513Yet when they were ill, I grieved for them. I denied myself by fasting for them, but my prayers returned unanswered. (NLT)
Psalms 6910When I weep and fast, they scoff at me. (NLT)
Isaiah 586No, this is the kind of fasting I want Free those who are wrongly imprisoned; lighten the burden of those who work for you. Let the oppressed go free, and remove the chains that bind people. (NLT)
Daniel 93So I turned to the Lord God and pleaded with him in prayer and fasting. I also wore rough burlap and sprinkled myself with ashes. (NLT)
Daniel 103All that time I had eaten no rich food. No meat or wine crossed my lips, and I used no fragrant lotions until those three weeks had passed. (NLT)
Joel 215Blow the ram?s horn in Jerusalem! Announce a time of fasting; call the people together for a solemn meeting. (NLT)
Matthew 42For forty days and forty nights he fasted and became very hungry. (NLT)
Matthew 616And when you fast, don?t make it obvious, as the hypocrites do, for they try to look miserable and disheveled so people will admire them for their fasting. I tell you the truth, that is the only reward they will ever get. (NLT)
Matthew 915Jesus replied, ?Do wedding guests mourn while celebrating with the groom? Of course not. But someday the groom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast. (NLT)
Luke 237Then she lived as a widow to the age of eighty-four. She never left the Temple but stayed there day and night, worshiping God with fasting and prayer. (NLT)
Acts 133So after more fasting and prayer, the men laid their hands on them and sent them on their way. (NLT)
Acts 1423Paul and Barnabas also appointed elders in every church. With prayer and fasting, they turned the elders over to the care of the Lord, in whom they had put their trust. (NLT)
Prophets
After the Israelites were defeated by the men of Ai (Joshua 76), Joshua and the elders of Israel remained prostrate before the Ark of the Covenant from morning until evening without eating.
On one occasion, the 11 tribes that had taken up arms against Benjamin, seeing that they would not stand against the inhabitants of Gibeah, fell before the Ark on their faces and so continued until the evening without eating (Judges 2026).
David fasted while the first child he had by Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah, lay dying (2 Samuel 1216).
Moses fasted 40 days on Mount Horeb before God gave him the two tables of testimony (Exodus 3428-29), during which time he neither ate bread nor drank water.
Elijah fasted for 40 days during a trip from the wilderness to Horeb, the mountain of God (1Kings 19.
Jesus Christ fasted 40 days and nights in the wilderness while being tempted by Satan the devil (Matthew 41-3; Luke 42).Fasting in the Bible
The religious practices of Islam (Salat, Zakat, Fasting, and Hajj) were given to Abraham and practiced by all messengers that followed him, including Jesus.
Fasting is almost always mentioned in the Bible along with special prayers of petition. Examples of such fasting are in the time of Esther (Esther 43 and 931), in the experience of Daniel (Daniel 618 and 93), and in the advice of Jesus (Matthew 1721 and Mark 929). The words of David especially connect fasting with prayer of petition ?While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again?? 2 Samuel 1222-23.In this text we see that fasting appears in the Bible along with weeping. Dressing in sackcloth, sitting in ashes, and not wearing perfume are also mentioned (Nehemiah 91; 1Kings 2127). Proclaiming a fast
is often associated with a solemn assembly as well (Joel 114; 215 et al.). It appears that special months of fasting were instituted during the Babylonian captivity of Judah, probably in view of the crisis (Zechariah 819). ?Thus saith the Lord of hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.? This verse clearly suggests that these months of fasting would no longer be observed when the reason for their existence, the Babylonian captivity, disappeared.But there is no specific legislation dealing with fasting. It is assumed in the Bible text that everyone already knows that fasting is a valid practice and how it should be done.
Although many of the fasts mentioned in the Bible are certainly personal vows and not general practice, some general fasting practices are found. A specific fast day in mentioned in Jeremiah 366. ?Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the Lord in the ears of the people in the Lord?s house upon the fasting day and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities.? Here we find a definite practice of fasting.
The following verses will show that this is not just a day of fasting, but precisely a month. More detail on this day of fasting is given in verse nine ?And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem.? This is not a special fast proclaimed by a religious ruler, because this particular king was wicked. Nevertheless, he did follow the formality of what was practiced the month of fasting. The time given for this fasting is stated to be the ninth month.
The season of the fast in this particular year, thought by many scholars to be 604 B.C., is stated
to be in the winter. Jeremiah 3622, ?Now the king sat in the winter house in the ninth month and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him.? Now the present Jewish calendar adds a thirteenth month from time to time to match the solar year, so that the ninth month of the civil year (used in the dates of kings? reigns) falls in May or June, summer in Palestine. If we project the lunar calendar presently used in the Middle East back in history, we find that the ninth month falls in November of the year 604 B.C. It appears that during Bible times a purely lunar calendar was used, and the ninth month was a month of fasting.Bible fasting includes more than just not eating and drinking, however. Isaiah 58 is the great fasting chapter of the Bible. ?Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labors. Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord? Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread
to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?? Isaiah 583-7. From this we see that fasting includes avoiding certain pleasures on one hand, and doing acts of charity and justice on the other. That is, there are some other pleasures besides food and drink that must be avoided. Also, the central meaning of the fast has to do with feeling for the hunger of the hungry and doing something to alleviate it. In addition, especially the practice of using sackcloth and ashes seems to be condemned. We find the same condemnation, because of its connection with hypocrisy, mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 6.So we find fasting a basic, though unlegislated, practice throughout the Bible, from Moses to Peter and Paul (Acts 1030; 1423; 2733; and 1Corinthians 75). In sum-mary, we can say that Biblical fast-ing is the complete abstention from eating and drinking and some other pleasures during the daylight hours of the days of the ninth month of the lunar calendar. It includes acts of charity, alms and justice, and the especial avoidance of anger and quarreling.
Excerpts from Chapter Seven of the book Islam in the Bible by Thomas McElwain
http//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/sp/1998/dec/page1.html
It seems like it was 40 days.
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WOW! Very informative Bigmo, thanks!
I also agree with fasting the whole month of Ramadan, not just 10 days. And that we should use the lunar calendar which we have right now for the dates.
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Peace Ayman,
Ayman said
Ayman this is not true. The meaning of fully moon is not there, this is your interpretation of the meaning of 'moon' and 'famous and prominent.' You combined prominent and moon to get prominent moon which you associated with full moon. Could you translitarate or post the Arabic of the entry in Lisaan al-Arab that says 'full moon.'
Godbless,
AnwarCan you respond to the above allegation?
Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan
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http//books.google.com/books?id=lceqd9FKhsAC&pg=PA228&lpg=PA228&dq=shahr+full+moon&source=bl&ots=dPrgWo_Z9j&sig=cLi9C9biXyq0VShpxskQDAOQKk0&hl=es&ei=pLR3SrXLOMeptgf1udmWCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=shahr%20full%20moon&f=false
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Siki,
you need to go through Hot ramadhan thread again, and again, you will find the answers.
siki
I already read the thread posted by Ayman titled "Hot Ramadhan" where he argued that the words Shahr and Ramadhan mean full moon and hot in classical Arabic respectively. Since progod(Anwar) said that shahr means month and completely clear moon but not full moon as interpreted by Ayman. Since I do not know Arabic and hence cannot even check with Lisan al Arab dictionary, I wanted to get it clarified and confirmed by Ayman.
Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan
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Dear vivek
I am just trying to help out ayman here, I hope you don't mind,
I don't have access to lisanul arab however lane lexicon , which is considered to be an authority on classical arabic says the following,
= Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.
shahr n.m. (pl. shuhur and ashur) 2185, 2185, 2194, 2194, 2197, 2217, 2226, 2234, 492, 52, 597, 92, 95, 936, 936, 3412, 3412, 4615, 584, 654, 973
LL, V4, p 336, 337
see, it also lists full moon as one of the meaning,
Vivek dear,it took me almost two years to fully grasp ayman's postulate, so you need to go over the thread again and again.
Here are the reasons that made me change my opinion regarding this arabic term shahar.
First of all , through out quran , where ever the word is used weather you translate it as month or full moon, Both make sense and do give out logical sentence meanings, However at couple of places Full moon makes more of sense.
1; in 2-185 the word used is shahad , which correctly translates as "seeing some thing", One can not see a month, where as one can see the full moon.
2- 97-1 says that quran was revealed in one night , so it becomes insignificant for that event to stretch into a whole month, Quran being sent down on the night of qadar , which happened to be shaha ur ramadhan or the full moon night of scorching heat makes perfect sense.
3- In 2-228 God uses menses as a marker to start calculating divorced women's waiting/interim . As start of the periods, or coming of the blood is an event /marker, but in 65-4 in case of women who are old not to have periods or whose periods are irregular, and as such cannot rely upon this event. As duration between two periods is approx equal to a period between two full moons, so for such women, God substitutes shahar for menses, to start her waiting count, "this makes absolute sense".
4- Moreover , if we take shahar as a month then the waiting days of these women (menopausal, ) increases by 29 days more than a fertile women, This does not make sense, as to why should God increase the waiting period of old women ? if at all, there had to be a difference , It should have been opposite.
I am sure there are some more , but at present i can only remember above.
siki
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vivek,
if you go over all the meanings given by lane, you will find that it translates as , big bulky, something obvious, eminent noticeable known etc, so it cannot be , the cresent moon, because it does not relate as such, where as the full bright moon does.
so in my opinion, month , is evolved/corrupted meaning.
Most likely, when people saw the full bright moon , they realised , "Oh , a certain time period has passed ", as the shahar has come again. So over a period of time sighting the full moon started to get related with a certain time period , and evolved into a month.
siki
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Peace siki,
Here are the reasons that made me change my opinion regarding this arabic term shahar.
First of all , through out quran , where ever the word is used weather you translate it as month or full moon, Both make sense and do give out logical sentence meanings, However at couple of places Full moon makes more of sense.
1; in 2-185 the word used is shahad , which correctly translates as "seeing some thing", One can not see a month, where as one can see the full moon.
To know is to see and one can know without physically seeing. The blind and people living in cloudy weather also fast.
650 Say "Do the blind and the seeing become equal, so do you not think?"
2- 97-1 says that quran was revealed in one night , so it becomes insignificant for that event to stretch into a whole month, Quran being sent down on the night of qadar , which happened to be shaha ur ramadhan or the full moon night of scorching heat makes perfect sense.
Yes, started that night, did the entire download complete? When did these events take place, same night?
3124 When you say to the believers "Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord extends (supplies) you with three thousand from the angels sent descending?"
663 And when the prophet confided to some (of) his wives an information, so when she informed with it (others) and God made it apparent on (to) him, he made some of it known and he opposed from some, so when he informed her with it, she said "Who informed you (of) this?" He said "The knowledgeable, the expert informed me."
80 He frowned and turned away that the blind came to him?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aHoM3E2Go3- In 2-228 God uses menses as a marker to start calculating divorced women's waiting/interim . As start of the periods, or coming of the blood is an event /marker, but in 65-4 in case of women who are old not to have periods or whose periods are irregular, and as such cannot rely upon this event. As duration between two periods is approx equal to a period between two full moons, so for such women, God substitutes shahar for menses, to start her waiting count, "this makes absolute sense".
4- Moreover , if we take shahar as a month then the waiting days of these women (menopausal, ) increases by 29 days more than a fertile women, This does not make sense, as to why should God increase the waiting period of old women ? if at all, there had to be a difference , It should have been opposite.
Obviously, women and their periods are all over the place depending on the woman. lol
Especially when they get older, so waiting time is increased to insure they are not pregnant.I am sure there are some more , but at present i can only remember above.
Yes plenty like fasting anywhere from 29-59 days (2 full moons) depending on date when Quran says exactly 2 months.
492?and freeing/liberating a believing neck, so who does not find, so fasting two months following each other, a repentance from at God, and God is knowledgeable, wise/judicious.