Previous Revelations also in Arabic Language
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Yes, previous revelations must have been in "arabic" utterance, not "Arabic" language.
"Utterance" is "qawl".
The original meaning of "arabic" is clear, explained.
The word for "clear" is "mubeen" and the word for "explained" is "mufassal".
And if we accept your understanding that "arabi" means "clear" then the term "lisaanun arabiun mubeen"(16103) will be understood as "clear clear language". Doesn't make sense , right?
The three main Sematic "languages ", and of the revalation are Arabic, Hebrew and Aramic.
Three languages of revelation? Does the Quran say there are three?
Also, while the Quran says it was revealed in arabic, if we take this to mean Arabic, we will be faced with two , or three problems
- It is redundant to mention it. The reader definitely knows that!A non Arab believer will, on the other hand, feel excluded.
Why should he feel excluded? It has been made in arabic language so its ayaat can be detailed and so they can understand it. They should appreciate it, rather than feel excluded.
- It gives credit to a language, and people for no effort of them.
If a language provides more details, then it deserves the credit.
But it does not give credit to people in any way.
- There are many non Arabic words in the quran, but are quite "arabic" (understandable and clear).
What do you think?
I disagree. It is because of "arabic" that the Quran is "understandable"(433) and "clear"(16103). The word "arabic" itself is not used to convey the meaning of "understandable" and "clear".
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Hello Fahad,
Walaqad naAAlamu annahum yaqooloona innamayuAAallimuhu basharun lisanu allathee yulhidoonailayhi aAAjamiyyun wahatha lisanun AAarabiyyunmubeenun
We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.
New Trans
And indeed We know that they say (it is) only who teaches him a human being the tongue (of) he whom they refer to him (as) foreign and this tongue(language) uncorrupted clear.
The rest of your post is simerlarly contestable.
Thanks though.
Salaams.
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Can one only learn wisdom in the language Arabic?
7.Inna anzalnahu qur-ananAAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona
We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
Arabic here is the opposite of crookedness so one may guard against evil.
13.Qur-anan AAarabiyyan ghayra theeAAiwajin laAAallahum yattaqoona
(It is) a Qur'an in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein) in order that they may guard against Evil.
Do people only understand the lingo Arabic?if it was a lingo.
14.Kitabun fussilat ayatuhuqur-anan AAarabiyyan liqawmin yaAAlamoona
A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-
Would anybody give a message in another lingo then his own?
17.Inna jaAAalnahu qur-ananAAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona
We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
And the lingo becomes beloved instead.
22.AAuruban atraban
Beloved (by nature), equal in age,-
Salam Simple.
What is the point of this post? I don't understand.
Thanks.
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Salaam Fahad[
"Utterance" is "qawl"
OK. Let's do this "hair splitting"
Uttarance could be a word, a phrase or a sentence, or even a non comprehemsive speech. It is the equivalent to "nabasa; naTaqa )
qawl is more of saying. It is to utter meaningful speachThe word for "clear" is "mubeen" and the word for "explained" is "mufassal".
"mubeen" is an active participle like "muf3il" (verbs of the form IV), equivalent of "doer" for the form I; so it can't mean clear. Literally it means "explainer", "clarifier" or that which explains and clarifies.
"mufassal" is detailed,; tailored.And if we accept your understanding that "arabi" means "clear" then the term "lisaanun arabiun mubeen"(16103) will be understood as "clear clear language". Doesn't make sense , right?
clear wording/language that explains everything!!
Several similar adjectives which could be translated into one adjective is quite common in Arabic. The same goes in the opposite way.
How would you translate "al fuqaraa'u wal masaakeen" 960, in two words (plus "and"?
How do you translate (not understand) mubath-thiruun and musrifuun ?
How would you translate "waaDiH )?Those words look as if they are the same, yet there is a slight difference that cannot be caught by the translation. Same thing with the words clear; explained and detailed, which could be expressed in much more Arabic words; yet when you come to translate them, you will find yourself limited in words. The same could apply on the opposite direction.
Three languages of revelation? Does the Quran say there are three?
Three what? Languages? This is what I am saying One language. An arabic. You are saying One language, the Arabic.
Revaelations? No, the Quran doesn't; you do (look at the title of the thread) previous revelations, means at least two; plus the present one= at least three revelationsIf a language provides more details, then it deserves the credit.
Each language answers the needs of its people. Arabic language is detailed in different names and adjectives of a camel; English is more detailed in snow and its particles, and in computer science.
Qur-anan AAarabiyyan ghayra theeAAiwajin laAAallahum yattaqoona
(It is) a Qur'an in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein) in order that they may guard against Evil.
How do you understand this Arabic without crookedness? Was there Arabic with crookedness and Arabic without?
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Hello Fahad,
Walaqad naAAlamu annahum yaqooloona innamayuAAallimuhu basharun lisanu allathee yulhidoonailayhi aAAjamiyyun wahatha lisanun AAarabiyyunmubeenun
We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.
New Trans
And indeed We know that they say (it is) only who teaches him a human being the tongue (of) he whom they refer to him (as) foreign and this tongue(language) uncorrupted clear.
Two questions for you
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How does "foreign" become the opposite of "uncorrupted"?
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Are all foreign languages corrupted?
The rest of your post is simerlarly contestable.
I'd like to see how.
Thanks though.
No problem.
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Salaams Fahad,
4144
Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?"?????..So all the books that we have in English aren?t explained in detail?????????????????????
Has anybody in his right mind sent a message in a language other then the language of the people the message is for??????????????
What are you making God into ??????
Shame on people who accept such nonsense Br.
And I will leave you to find the answer to your question yourself.
4144
Should be ? I think something likeHad we made its verses abstruse/ imperfect/ difficult to understand, they would have said why not are explained in detail its verses so abstruse yet such fine accent ????
My last post on this topic - i will let samia handle the rest, she is good.
Gods Blessings on all.
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Salaam Fahad[
OK. Let's do this "hair splitting"
Uttarance could be a word, a phrase or a sentence, or even a non comprehemsive speech. It is the equivalent to "nabasa; naTaqa )
qawl is more of saying. It is to utter meaningful speach"mubeen" is an active participle like "muf3il" (verbs of the form IV), equivalent of "doer" for the form I; so it can't mean clear. Literally it means "explainer", "clarifier" or that which explains and clarifies.
"mufassal" is detailed,; tailored.clear wording/language that explains everything!!
Several similar adjectives which could be translated into one adjective is quite common in Arabic. The same goes in the opposite way.
How would you translate "al fuqaraa'u wal masaakeen" 960, in two words (plus "and"?
How do you translate (not understand) mubath-thiruun and musrifuun ?
How would you translate "waaDiH )?Those words look as if they are the same, yet there is a slight difference that cannot be caught by the translation. Same thing with the words clear; explained and detailed, which could be expressed in much more Arabic words; yet when you come to translate them, you will find yourself limited in words. The same could apply on the opposite direction.
Three what? Languages? This is what I am saying One language. An arabic. You are saying One language, the Arabic.
Revaelations? No, the Quran doesn't; you do (look at the title of the thread) previous revelations, means at least two; plus the present one= at least three revelationsEach language answers the needs of its people. Arabic language is detailed in different names and adjectives of a camel; English is more detailed in snow and its particles, and in computer science.
How do you understand this Arabic without crookedness? Was there Arabic with crookedness and Arabic without?
Oh yes. There can be Arabic with crookedness. That?s why the Quran confirms Arabic language(4612). So the Quranic Arabic is not crooked.
Or are you saying that Arabic cannot contain crookedness?
But how do you understand this Clear without crookedness? Was there ?clear? with crookedness and ?clear? without?
It proves that ?Arabic? cannot mean ?clear/uncorrupted? or any similar meaning.
That settles it.
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Salam Simple.
Salaams Fahad,
4144
Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?"?????..So all the books that we have in English aren?t explained in detail?????????????????????
You yourself are also implying that all foreign languages are corrupted, remember?
I simply asked you
Two questions for you-
How does "foreign" become the opposite of "uncorrupted"?
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Are all foreign languages corrupted?
You sound as if it has hurt your feelings or something.
Has anybody in his right mind sent a message in a language other then the language of the people the message is for??????????????
The messenger is sent in the language of the people, not the book. Or are you saying that the Urdu speaking people should receive the Quran in Urdu, the language of those people?
What are you making God into ??????
What do you think I am making God into? And why?
And by the way, what you make God into? A doctor...
...Shame on people who accept such nonsense Br.
Does 'nonsense' include your "Allah=doctor" theory?
And I will leave you to find the answer to your question yourself.
Oh, why?! Why should I find the answer? Shouldn't you give me the answer since you made the claim that "arabic" means "uncorrupted"?
My last post on this topic
I was already expecting it to be your last post on this thread, anyway. I can see it coming, when I ask you a simple question about your claims.
- i will let samia handle the rest, she is good.
Right. She is good. I'll have to be more careful while discussing with her in the future.
Gods Blessings on all.
God's blessings on you too.
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peace
I think I agree with Samia and Simple. I don't know squat about arabic, but their understanding is more logical, by far.
And fahad, you might wanna change your avatar since Shoaib isn't going to be playing cricket anymore.Peace Phoenix1.
Since Simple is gone, why don't you take his place, and answer the questions he does not want to answer.
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peace Fahad,
although I'm sure Simple will address your questions, I'll give you my thoughts on this.
The thing is, it makes no sense for all books to be in arabic. People who live outside Arabia do not speak it.
And, if arabic is a name of a language, and taking the above into consideration, 4144 becomes useless. Because the people wouldn't understand it.And I think what Simple was saying by pointing was that "arabic" means "clear" in 4144. If you look at it that way, it's not talking about languages at all, but about the quran's words being clear.
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Salaams fahad,
although i had given upanyway here i will do it again
Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds
With it came down the spirit of Faith and Truth-
To thy heart and mind, that thou mayest admonish.
In language/speech uncorrupted plain.
Without doubt it is (announced) in the mystic Books of former peoples.
Is it not a Sign to them that the Learned of the Children of Israel knew it (as true)?
Had We revealed it to any of the foreigners,
And had he recited it to them, they would not have believed in it.
Thus have We caused it to enter the hearts of the sinners.When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them understand not.
Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is faultless/arabic, pure and clear.Look at the two sections above
Although, Allah has said, this revelation has come to other peoples before this .
This isn?t that but a new revelation inspired to him.
And they think it is a forgery by one from the other peoples- the jews.And Allah is saying if it was a forgery they would now it as it wouldn?t be so clear but would have been corrupted some what due to its forgery or rather translation.
4144
Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) foreign and (a Messenger an Arab?"?????..As Allah is talking about the ambiguity that would be involved in the translation process - according to the above few ayah's.
Arabic can be the name of the language -may be.
But then the message can only be for arabs i think.So is arabic a language or as samia said?
God?s Blessings on us.
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Salaam Fahad
But how do you understand this Clear without crookedness? Was there ?clear? with crookedness and ?clear? without?
If we say Arabic (language) without crookedness, a question will arise is there an Arabic language with crookedness? So, two Arabic languages, with and without?
But if we say arabic without crookedness (here arabic is mere adjective), such a question wont arise. This kind of expression is common in Arabic. We say "kamel min ghair neqSaan complete without diminution" and no one would say is there completeness with diminution!!
In the Quran there are similar expressions. here are some
11109
"..We shall repay them in full without (ghair) diminution"
16115
"..but who is forced without (ghair) wilful disobedience.."
2231
"submitting to none but God not (ghair) associating partners"..And "a plain speech without crookedness"
NB a'jami does not mean foreign. It means someone who speaks in a non comprehensible manner, irrespective of their language (lisaanul 'arab).
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peace Phoenix.
peace Fahad,
although I'm sure Simple will address your questions, I'll give you my thoughts on this.
The thing is, it makes no sense for all books to be in arabic. People who live outside Arabia do not speak it.So people living outside Arabia cannot understand the Quran? Are all members of this Quranic forum from inside Arabia?
Can people outside Arabia not learn Arabic language? And Arabs cannot learn foreign languages?
The Quran uses only about 2000 words, I think, which are repeated over and over. Is it so difficult for people to learn just 2000 words? C'mon! Many people can speak many languages! What are just 2000 words?!
And, if arabic is a name of a language, and taking the above into consideration, 4144 becomes useless. Because the people wouldn't understand it.
How could you make sense of verse 4144? You live outside Arabia, right. You just cannot understand it.(thats what you say)
And what language do you think that the Quran is in? English? Urdu? or some other language? ... Arabic maybe?
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Salam Samia.
Salaam Fahad
If we say Arabic (language) without crookedness, a question will arise is there an Arabic language with crookedness? So, two Arabic languages, with and without?
Yes, two Arabic languages, with and without crookedness.
But the 'Quranic Arabic', the one confirmed by the Quran(4612), does not contains crookedness.
46/12 ...and this book confirms lisaanan arabiyan/Arabic language...
Because the Quran, being 'kitabun mubeen'(2775-76), confirms 'lisaanan arabiyan', so its language is 'lisaanun arabiyun mubeen', which is the 'Arabic without crookedness'.
That's how I understand it.
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So people living outside Arabia cannot understand the Quran? Are all members of this Quranic forum from inside Arabia?
Can people outside Arabia not learn Arabic language? And Arabs cannot learn foreign languages?
The Quran uses only about 2000 words, I think, which are repeated over and over. Is it so difficult for people to learn just 2000 words? C'mon! Many people can speak many languages! What are just 2000 words?!
peace
The Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. People in that age didn't have the internet, nor did they have books or teachers teaching them arabic.
And even today, it is very hard for anyone to understand arabic completely. And if you don't understand it completely, it's very easy to make wrong conclusions.But why is Arabic so important to you? can't a book in english be just as clear? or a book in Spanish?
I'd think God would come up with a better plan than what you're suggesting.
Or maybe the quran is just an arabic book written by an enlightened individual and there's nothing else to it. -
Yes, two Arabic languages, with and without crookedness.
But the 'Quranic Arabic', the one confirmed by the Quran(4612), does not contains crookedness.
46/12 ...and this book confirms lisaanan arabiyan/Arabic language...
Because the Quran, being 'kitabun mubeen'(2775-76), confirms 'lisaanan arabiyan', so its language is 'lisaanun arabiyun mubeen', which is the 'Arabic without crookedness'.
That's how I understand it.
Again, why would the quran use a different language????
and you can't prove that the quranic language is without crookedness. It's quite easy to misinterpret it, or interpret it in a bad way. The quran's being used to promote violence against innocents, did you know that?
But i still don't get why God wouldn't use the language of the locals. Why would God make people learn a completely different language just to tell them that it confirms the truths they already possess? -
Salaams fahad,
although i had given upanyway here i will do it again
Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds
With it came down the spirit of Faith and Truth-
To thy heart and mind, that thou mayest admonish.
In Arabic uncorrupted plain.
Without doubt it is (announced) in the mystic Books of former peoples.
Is it not a Sign to them that the Learned of the Children of Israel knew it (as true)?
Had We revealed it to any of the foreigners,
And had he recited it to them, they would not have believed in it.
Thus have We caused it to enter the hearts of the sinners.When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them understand not.
Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is faultless/arabic, pure and clear.Look at the two sections above
Although, Allah has said, this revelation has come to other peoples before this .
This isn?t that but a new revelation inspired to him.
And they think it is a forgery by one from the other peoples- the jews.And Allah is saying if it was a forgery they would now it as it wouldn?t be so clear but would have been corrupted some what due to its forgery or rather translation.
4144
Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) foreign and (a Messenger an Arab?"?????..As Allah is talking about the ambiguity that would be involved in the translation process - according to the above few ayah's.
Salaams Fahad ,
Fahad look at what Allah is talking about.
He is talking about the corruption/ambiguity that creeps into the language when you translate the words
from one language into another.
When you translate you do corrupt it to a certain extent its flow doesn't remain.
Without doubt it is (announced) in the mystic Books of former peoples
and here Allah is talking about the message which came to others before , and not the book in arabic to others.
WHETHER ARABIC BE A LANGUAGE OR MEANS CLEAR SPEECH , I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS.
LANGUAGES ARE FOR COMMUNICATION and whether we all start using sign languages if they where better it wouldn't matter as long as we where more obedient to Allah - and that is why we have to do talk fasting at times when we go off track.
God Bless.