Praying a Christian Prayer
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Peace
Is it prohibited to pray a prayer that is from a different religion but with a twist to make it ok?
I've been in Catholic school all my life and there are many prayers I memorized just out of saying it and hearing it day in and day out.
One that I don't see a problem with (but I need to see what others think) is
Our Father (i change this word to just Lord) who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name
Thy kingdom come,
Thy Will be done
On earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespass against us
And lead us not into temptation.
But deliver us from evil.
Amen.
Anything wrong with saying this prayer as a Muslim?
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Peace,
No, not really, But saying Allah is in heaven contradicts the Quran who says He is everywhere (2115), plus the 'Father' prayer is translated wrong. Here is the correct literal translation from aramaic
O'Lifegiver! Creator of the Universe
Focus Your light into us-make it usefull
Proclaim Your Kingdom of Unity now
Your only desire will then coincide with ours,
as in the Light,
as in all forms,Give us every day our need of bread an insight.
Untie the cords of wrongs that binds us (humans),
as we untie the strains unto which we hold others to their trespasses.Let superficial things not mislead us,
but liberate us from the things that holds us.From You the alworking will is produced,
the living force to act,
the song that beautifies all,
and that renews itself from century to century.Let it be true-that there is strength in these words-may they be the base from which all my deeds are created
Ameen
To explain the Aramaic will take a long long time. But this is one of the best translations of the armaic used. It is by Neil Douglas-Klotz.
But to give an example of the aramaic
Abwoen refers to the source from which all things are created, only in later aramaic did it become to mean 'Father'. The original Abwoen is genderless. The word Abwoen means thus
A=the Absolute, comes from Alaha, which means The One or God
Bw=birth, creation, flow of blessings
Oe=the breath that carries the flow of blessings N=the vibration of creation. A-Bw-Oen-N.
sjmaja is normally translated with 'heaven' but in the aramaic it refers to 'all creation and everything there is', and thus does not refer to the mythical heaven as it is seen now.wasjbooklan is normally translated with to forgive but it is also means to return to its original state. chtagheen is normally translated with sins but it can also mean a strangled piece of string, this is where the Untie the cords of wrongs that binds us (humans), as we untie the strains unto which we hold others to their trespasses comes from. Lachma means bread as well as understanding/insight. Tsevjanach is normally translated with will, but it refers more to inner wish and refers to a harmonious cooperation of things from where the Your only desire will then coincide with ours comes from.
I believe it is correct as the meaning coincides with the Quran and also with the Al-Fatiha. I thought i should share it...
Peace
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peace be upon u jankren! handshake
catholism its the majority of people toghether with christians(in the world),and there is more catholic schools than any other religion schools.
my mom went to one,just females,and like u have to pay most of them are spoiled.plus is just regular school with some extra classes of some religion stuff.
peace! handshake -
Peace Jankren,
In general, here in NJ atleast, catholic schools better prepare kids for college. There are public high schools that are excellent, but unless you live in the rigght town, you're out of luck. So, those who can afford it and live in towns that don't have good public schools have the option of out-of-town catholic schools.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace All
Thank you so much Arnold Yasin for shedding light on "the Lord's Prayer" and its true meaning. That prayer sounds amazing actually ... i think i'll try to memorize it because i like it's meaning alot more now.
I think Tay hit it right on the money. Just to add to that, my parents wanted to make sure I had good values not just at home but in school, which is where I am the majority of the day. There seems to be an agenda out in public schools. Sex is discussed too early, condoms are distributed too early, alternative lifestyles are addressed in 2nd Grade now ... in catholic schools you bypass all the nonesense and you are taught things in a way that you are not sheltered but still understand right from wrong ... until public schools reform their "secularized" ways i'd rather not send my kids there either... things are getting worse by the year in public schools ...
And Tay how is your friend doing with the lsats? My only advice is to practice like crazy. Tell him to get a hold of some practice books and go thru them religiously. The lsat follows the same patterns over and over every year. Its the same problem, different names essentially. One year its Jill next year its Sally. So if he practices alot he can get a feel for the patterns and he'll do great God-Willing. keep me posted )
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Peace to all,
Boost, im glad you asked this question, ive been doing the exact same thing as you with the Lords prayer. I was raised Roman Catholic my entire life and I too have many prayers memorized that i used, but I have changed them slightly now just to pray to God only and not Jesus and Mary, and Saints, etc. Glad to hear there is someone hear that had similar experiences as I and have followed Gods guidance to where we are now.
Also, I recently took the LSAT test for whoever was asking, i did very good and now am in law school with an academic scholarship, maybe I can give a few pointers if someone needs it.
Kurt
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It is not a christian prayer, not by a long shot.
O eternal ruler, Lord of the universe!
Grant that the name of the king whom thou lovest,
Whose name thou hast mentioned, may flourish as seems good to thee.
Guide him on the right path.
I am the ruler who obeys thee, the creation of thy hand.
It is thou who hast created me,
And thou hast entrusted to me sovereignty over mankind.
According to thy mercy, O Lord, which thou bestowest upon all,
Cause me to love thy supreme rule.
Implant the fear of thy divinity in my heart.
Grant to me whatsoever may seem good before thee, Since it is
thou that dost control my life.Its spoken by king Nebuchadnezzar aimed at lord Marduk of babylon. Or what would be known to them as BAAL (bel) Marduk. Christians have been fucked along with the rest of us. If you mean it in your heart this is for God, im sure there is no problem with it. Just know where it came from and that i personally feel this disqualifies it, as it is the prayer to a sun god like amun rhah that arose at roughly the same time as amun rhah og egypt.
There are litterally thousands of such hymns, here is another one, that is said to have been said at the temple of sin ( a SINagogue, getit?) in UR 2500BC, and was likely the model for that "lords prayer" we know today.
Father, long-suffering and full of forgiveness, whose hand
upholds the life of all mankind!
First born, omnipotent, whose heart is immensity, and there is
none who may fathom it!
In heaven, who is supreme? Thou alone. ...
On earth, who is supreme? Thou alone. ...
As for thee, thy will is made known in heaven, and the angels
bow their faces.
As for thee, thy will is made known upon earth, and the
spirits below kiss the ground.It is speculated that the babylonians were monotheistic. I agree to this, if we take into account that they became so by merging all their gods into merduk, and the archetype god we know today as jahve was enlil, wheres the "jesus", mankinds saviour archetype was enki. But this is where this stuff comes from, and if you think thats holy...fine!
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Peace Magi
I don't see the similarity at all ... verse by verse i don't see any correlation. Maybe I'm missing something
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The short version of what im saying is. The Hebrews didnt have one thought of their own in their skull. They were cultural shoplifters and took a little here and a little there and tossed it into a hodgepodge theology that we still belive today actually has something to do with God.
Dont bet your lunch money on it
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you dont see the similarity?
O'Lifegiver! Creator of the Universe
O eternal ruler, Lord of the universe!
Father, long-suffering and full of forgivenessFocus Your light into us-make it usefull
whose hand upholds the life of all mankind!When the scripture speaks of Gods light, it often refers to our life. So these 2 lines are in fact saying the same thing. The red line says. focus your light into us, make it usefull (give us life) The blue one plainly states that our lifes is his to begin with. Ofcourse it is not the same 11, but these hymns are so alike ---and this was 2 of thousands of similar ones--- that it is only fair to conclude and give credit were its due. And it aint with God
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Here is the jewish Kadish, first three lines.
Glorified and sanctified be God's great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will.
May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days, and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon; and say, Amen.plagiarism without a doubt. But why not? That how the hebrews got it to begin with.
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Peace
ohhh i get it now !
lol i guess they did bite it off of the babylonians ...
i don't think the prayer is holy per se but it just sounds like good things to pray for and keep in mind ... but that's freaky that it got its roots from paganism ... but you say the babylonians may have been monotheists so i don't know ...
interesting stuff ! thanks for the info
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I think the main point im trying to make is this.
I can prove that for 6000 years, people have been chanting these hymns. They have changed along the way, and each groups have fitted them to what needs they had, or the narration changed over time. For 6000 years i can prove that our history has been one endless cycle of "anarchism->monarchism->democracism->despotism->fascism" all while we have been singing away our songs and hymns to the lord. Im sorry to say this, but it would seem to me based on 6000 years of utter failure to be humans, that our good Lord is NOT impressed with our poetry at all.
While these hymns give each of us an instant shot of "feel rightious", it would seem that they serve us more than God. And this is not neccerily a postive thing mind you.
All of us look at sunnis pracsis with some scepsis because the rituals and hymns seems to have a tendency of getting in the way of actually being rightious. If you sing or bow or dance or whatever some times a day, you feel good. but what is it excactly that you have done for God in this? Did his creation suddenly start to behave more?
Did you take a standpoint against evil, vile and filth with all your mind,body and soul, nomatter the consequences or did you just utter some words that made you feel that everything will be allright?Another important point is that the very people who brought with them from the past these hymns are EVIL DOERS! their organisations are but craddles of filth that has infected the world for far to long allready. The lords prayer wasnt excactly spread to the people through love, care and understanding.
Im not trying to be nagative or tell you what to do. im trying to tell you that right now you are doing what people have done for the last 6000 years. and im asking you, what good does it do us?
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Peace Magi,
A prayer is not an action. It is a reaction. otherwise it is not a prayer!
The action comes first. First the inside should be impressed then the reaction comes as exprerssion. as prayer.
Impression of heart is the purpose and expression is its form.
Remember that form can never create a function or purpose. but a purpose will create its suitable form.
words in a prayer are forms.movement of body is just form. They start functioning once first there is a purpse. An intention. A motion from within.
Once that motion arises from inside, then it needs a form to manifest. that form can be chanting, dancing, prostrating, singing... The impression then is manifested from within. It starts to imprint inside, A pattern start taking shape. A program is written. and in life that pattern will start to transpire.
Yes indeed thousands of years people repeated the forms and they were not guided. Human is attracted to FORMS. TO IDOLS.
Guidance comes as soon as we get straight from inside.
peace
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Alpha it sounds good, but how do you figure that can happen with chaos around us as is? If youre depressed, it will become harder to ever streighten up your head if you are in a messy place. Very few people are not like this.
If we shape our suroundings peacefully, we will become so along with it in the process. If our feet does not follow the intention, the intetion has no value and the spoken are mere words.Once that motion arises from inside, then it needs a form to manifest. that form can be chanting, dancing, prostrating, singing...
but more than anything it should manifest in change. And neither of the expressions you mention will bring that about. On the contrary, it is just doing the same thing as they did back then. Why will we not learn?
Here in our chaotic world we have jews praying to God, muslims are praying to God, christians, hindus, some buddhist are praying to God. And still all is in chaos. All these good people are trying to manifest their innermost in these ways, and still chaos grows and multiplies. Are we praying to the wrong god? or maybe prayer is something else entirely than what we have been told, and has reasoned our way to, based on what we know.
The way i see it, all we are doing, are paying lipservice to The Almighty- And i am no different, far from. I am wise in the light of my own shortcommings. Or when i speak of chaos and disorder, i speak as an expert ;D
We all have a good intend to uphold God, and we say so, and we debate how to. But in reality what are we doing, when we debate the words to be spoken ,as opposed to how to bring about the change so desperately needed.We talk the talk and walk backwards the other way along with the idolworshippers we deny being part of.
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a simple metaphor is a father and his child. If the child keeps doing bad, or running with the bad kids, and keep comming home saying that he will change and promise, and cry and have all the good intentions. At some point the dad is still going to say "show me". Dont tell me you want to bring change about, bring the change about and i will come help you when youve started out.
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Peace Magi,
Maybe you don?t realize.
You are in prayer yourself.
You reactions to my post is a prayer.
You see the shortcomings (humbleness) and you point out to the ideal that you miss. That is a prayer, you do not have to sing!We are born into this chaos for a purpose. One should not resent the chaos in the wish for the comfort zone. This chaos is our ladder to evolve. The spiritual awareness happens in de miidst of this chaos. Do what you can and change what you can and the rest is trusted to the creator.
The people went strayed not because they prayed. they were sent stray because of what they had in their hearts! It is that simple.
There is no ritual whatsoever that can guide.
There is no scripture whatsoever that can guide.
Guidance has only one formula! Getting straight from inside! The rest will follow of its own akkord!prayer is a tool
Meditation is a tool
Fasting is a toolAnd all useless till one starts the spiritual journey.
peace,
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I agree with what you say with some reservations, and want to add to this
The people went strayed not because they prayed. they were sent stray because of what they had in their hearts! It is that simple.
while this is obvious. it is altso obvious that the very prayer suggested, is linked to a pure idolworshipping ideology with many cruel offsprings. If you noticed the hymns i posted, one of them is strongly suggested to have been chanted at UR. For people interrested in relegious history-- if you can speak of such a thing--, this is where Abraham was born. The implications of this are, that one in praise to God ,would sing a variation of the very hymn that the idolworshippers who wanted to stone Abraham was offering up to their god.
So whatever intention you have, it is still a mockery afaic to offer it to God.
Altso, in the light of the example that our prophets of old have given us. what are the first thing they did when they realised the truth sorrounding them? Im not talking about their relationship with God, because that is allready established, that is why they now see nothing but filth. Nomatter how hard they look, all they can see is vile and evil. Then what do they do? Do they stay around trying to fix things up, and go along to get along hoping that some supernatural event will come and take place, or it all just levels out occationally? No they ran so fast they nearly fell in their beards to get away from it. Catch their breath, get hold of their thougts and look at it all from the outside, and then took actions.
This is what i hear most advocate. Why are noone advocating following their example? Do we really need to see people being dragged away to camps before we "get it"? That didnt wake up Germany. How bad does it have to get, before we follow the example they set for us?
Yes, life is one long prayer, and you can make it a good one. but it requires you take certain actions that most are totally unwilling to take, and want to replace with "feel good" remedy.
We are born into this chaos for a purpose. One should not resent the chaos in the wish for the comfort zone. This chaos is our ladder to evolve. The spiritual awareness happens in de miidst of this chaos. Do what you can and change what you can and the rest is trusted to the creator.
I belive this to be the greatest pitfall of thinking in the world. Social darwinism runs at the core of this statement. I on the other hand believe that nothing evil can teach us, good cannot teach us better. When i say chaos i dont mean Gods cosmic machinery, that our limited minds percieve as chaos, but the chaos created by us. Therefor i belive that our purpose for being here is chosing not chaos, and the only way to chose not chaos, is to blankly refuse to corporate with it in any way. No need to be aggresive, that is what chaos does. But insist on your right not to partake in it, nomatter the benefits it offers. be your best and be personal and upfront with The Allmighty in whatever way works for you best, i agree with this, but dont offer up the hymns chaos invented to our creator.
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Peace Magi,
The subject of discussion is a bit changing. But it is worth while to take a bite of it.
The Pairs of Opposites exist everywhere. Where you find one thing you find its opposite-the two poles.
Following link sketches in more details my understanding of this point
http//www.gnostic.org/kybalionhtm/kybalion10.htmWe will talk on the subjects more later.
peace,