forgiveness

thegod

guest wrote
Peace thegod, here is an article by G. A. Parwez translated by Khalid M. Sayyed which you may find interesting.

He Forgives or Punishes Whoever He Wants

......

This established the Christian dogma of God is Mercy. Such concepts found their way into Muslim philosophy, supported by fabricated traditions like No one among you shall enter Paradise because of deeds! (from Taj al Uroos).

quite informative....i appreciate ur participation!

peace guest! -)

Alen

Salam.

We should forgive.
After all, when we arrive before The God Almighty, it is going to be one really big event. I mean, to stand before The God, people, that's gonna be ..... something that a human hasn't face, that's why some people will be completely surprised and schoked because they were unprepared.

Thank God Almighty that He is guiding us on the Straight Path.
We should forgive our enemies.
They have no idea what The Hell is.

Salam.

thegod

alen wrote
Salam.

We should forgive.
After all, when we arrive before The God Almighty, it is going to be one really big event. I mean, to stand before The God, people, that's gonna be ..... something that a human hasn't face, that's why some people will be completely surprised and schoked because they were unprepared.

cool! -)

Thank God Almighty that He is guiding us on the Straight Path.
We should forgive our enemies.

hope so! -)

They have no idea what The Hell is.

how about those who do have an idea as to what hell is?

...i mean like somebody here does something unpleasant....

how will u "forgive" that person?

....would u completely "forget" the incident...or simply not take "revenge"? -)

salam! -)

abrar

Peace and greetings
Following Verses of Quran illustrate the concept of kindness
"...and do good as God has done good to you..." 2877
".......Let them pardon and forgive. Would you not like God to forgive you? And God is Forgiving, Merciful." 2422
"Take to pardoning, and order with what is good, and turn away from the ignorant ones." 7199
"It was a mercy from God that you were soft towards them; had you been harsh and mean hearted, they would have dispersed from you; so pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them in the matter; but when you are convinced, then put your trust in God; God loves those who trust." 3159
"Push away evil with that which is better. We are better aware of what they describe." 2396
"......and they counter sin with good; these will have an excellent abode." 1322
"And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the Earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they Say Peace." 2563

Samia

Before one forgives, it is essential that they establish their right first. There is no meaning for forgiveness if you are helpless. This is not forgiveness. That's what this verse tells us

42.40
The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree) but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah for Allah loves not those who do wrong.

I also don't agree fully with the translation of "reconciliation" for the verb "aSla7a ". This verb has the notion of "doing a good deed", a step above forgiveness. For example you forgive someone who harmed you. You should not stop there, but help them solve the problem that makes them aggressive. This is "iSlaa7 ", not reconciliation.

thegod

abrar wrote

peace and greetings
Following Verses of Quran illustrate the concept of kindness
"...and do good as God has done good to you..." 2877
".......Let them pardon and forgive. Would you not like God to forgive you? And God is Forgiving, Merciful." 2422
"Take to pardoning, and order with what is good, and turn away from the ignorant ones." 7199
"It was a mercy from God that you were soft towards them; had you been harsh and mean hearted, they would have dispersed from you; so pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them in the matter; but when you are convinced, then put your trust in God; God loves those who trust." 3159
"Push away evil with that which is better. We are better aware of what they describe." 2396
"......and they counter sin with good; these will have an excellent abode." 1322
"And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the Earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they Say Peace." 2563

indeed....very illustrative! -)

so does 1 completely forget the incident?

...like say i wrong somebody and ask for forgiveness....

is the other person within her/his rights to not afford me the same level of respect/trust as before?

...or would that mean i ve not been truly forgiven? -)

think i sound a bit vague....hope not too (vague)....! -)

peace and greetings! -)

thegod

samia wrote
Before one forgives, it is essential that they establish their right first. There is no meaning for forgiveness if you are helpless. This is not forgiveness.

establish their right..hmmm...so does that mean unless 1 has the power to avenge...1 does not have the power to forgive? and that in such a situation there really is no such thing as "forgiveness"? -)

That's what this verse tells us

42.40
The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree) but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah for Allah loves not those who do wrong.

I also don't agree fully with the translation of "reconciliation" for the verb "aSla7a ". This verb has the notion of "doing a good deed", a step above forgiveness.

at the moment i agree that it does not seem to be reconciliation...i personally think slh has something to do with either "right", "correct", "acceptable", "beneficial", or "conducive"....hmmm...whatever! -)

For example you forgive someone who harmed you. You should not stop there, but help them solve the problem that makes them aggressive.

okay..."you should not stop there"....i think u are talking about the best approach and not the necessary approach? or have i got that wrong? -)

This is "iSlaa7 ", not reconciliation.

cool! -)

Samia

establish their right..hmmm...so does that mean unless 1 has the power to avenge...1 does not have the power to forgive? and that in such a situation there really is no such thing as "forgiveness"? -)

Sort of! For example, Someone owes you money, but he insists he paid you that. What are you going to forgive? You have to establish your right to that money, then forgive him and leave it for him, but not before. God set the law for us to establish our right. When it is punishment or payback time, you forgive.

okay..."you should not stop there"....i think u are talking about the best approach and not the necessary approach? or have i got that wrong? -)

You got it right. "iSlaa7" in this context is a degree higher than forgiveness.

abrar

Peace and greetings,

"## so does 1 completely forget the incident?

...like say i wrong somebody and ask for forgiveness...."

Yes if you have done wrong and have repented and asked for forgiveness from the one you mistreated and compensated his loss in an appropriate way if you have caused any, you must forget your guilt completely and promise yourself not to do it again.

"is the other person within her/his rights to not afford me the same level of respect/trust as before?

...or would that mean i ve not been truly forgiven? -)"

It depends on the other person that how he reacts to your repentance and if he does not afford you the same level of respect/trust you must not get dishearted or concerned as the other person is a human and it takes time to adjust. It is advisable for the hurt person to forgive as easily as possible to ensure his personal peace of mind and in order to move away from undesirable feelings and anger. However it may take time to adjust but forgiving others is key to making peace and understanding. It is also peacful and good for one's own self as well.

thegod

samia wrote
Sort of! For example, Someone owes you money, but he insists he paid you that. What are you going to forgive? You have to establish your right to that money, then forgive him and leave it for him, but not before. God set the law for us to establish our right. When it is punishment or payback time, you forgive.

okay....i think i get what u r saying! -)

..but does that mean u carry "hard feelings" till then?

You got it right. "iSlaa7" in this context is a degree higher than forgiveness.

cool! -)

thegod

abrar wrote
Peace and greetings

peace and greetings! -)

Yes if you have done wrong and have repented and asked for forgiveness from the one you mistreated and compensated his loss in an appropriate way if you have caused any, you must forget your guilt completely and promise yourself not to do it again.

well...that isnt what i meant...but yes, u have made a very interesting point there! -)

....i was trying to ask should the wronged person completely forget the wrong done to him/her? -)

It depends on the other person that how he reacts to your repentance and if he does not afford you the same level of respect/trust you must not get dishearted or concerned as the other person is a human and it takes time to adjust. It is advisable for the hurt person to forgive as easily as possible to ensure his personal peace of mind and in order to move away from undesirable feelings and anger. However it may take time to adjust but forgiving others is key to making peace and understanding. It is also peacful and good for one's own self as well.

that's pretty good advice there! -)

just so that i can understand a lil better is it possible that the person has forgiven me.....even if s/he chooses not to be warm and friendly as before? -)

peace and greetings! -)

Samia

Abrar wrote

It is advisable for the hurt person to forgive as easily as possible to ensure his personal peace of mind

Forgive what if the guilty person repented and compensated? If this person is still angry, this is called transgression. He has no forgiveness to give, but he is asked to try to forget. After repentence and compensating, forgiveness is now in the realm of God. The repenting person is clear in this world and should not bother about the other one. But here comes the "iSla7" where the repenting person should teach the hurt one some good manners!!

Samia

....or take them for some councelling or healing session to help them move on..and pay for it

thegod

samia wrote
Forgive what if the guilty person repented and compensated? If this person is still angry, this is called transgression. He has no forgiveness to give, but he is asked to try to forget. After repentence and compensating, forgiveness is now in the realm of God. The repenting person is clear in this world and should not bother about the other one. But here comes the "iSla7" where the repenting person should teach the hurt one some good manners!!

okay...so how does 1 determine "compensation"? -)

Alen

Salam.

When a person thinks of revenge and not forgiving, that person should think, first of the near future (will the revenge harm or benefit his near future), then the person should think about the distant future (will the revenge harm or benefit his distant future) and finally the person should think about the Judgment Day will it matter if he avenges himself and gets angry and doesn't forgive and goes on what his feelings say and kills the man who, this is an example, who burned down his house.

Think of The Judgment Day.

Peace.

thegod

alen wrote
When a person thinks of revenge and not forgiving, that person should think, first of the near future (will the revenge harm or benefit his near future), then the person should think about the distant future (will the revenge harm or benefit his distant future) and finally the person should think about the Judgment Day will it matter if he avenges himself and gets angry and doesn't forgive and goes on what his feelings say and kills the man who, this is an example, who burned down his house.

Think of The Judgment Day.

an interesting example! -)

what if u think i am being unjust to u, but i disagree and think what i am doing is perfectly alright, and continue in my arrogance...

...how would u deal with me? -)

Alen

an interesting example! -)

what if u think i am being unjust to u, but i disagree and think what i am doing is perfectly alright, and continue in my arrogance...

...how would u deal with me? -)

Salam.

Person A says and thinks is just to person B.
Person B thinks person A is lying and that person A is really being unjust.
Person A knows this, ignores it and contnues.
That is why person B has the right to take action and defend himself.

Peace.

thegod

alen wrote
Person A says and thinks is just to person B.
Person B thinks person A is lying and that person A is really being unjust.
Person A knows this, ignores it and contnues.
That is why person B has the right to take action and defend himself.

"b" is powerless against "a", and "a" continues to exploit....what should "b" do here?

....hate/curse/wish evil for "a".....or something else? -)

..ofcourse, besides doing all else s/he can do, including praying to god n blah blah blah! -)

salam! peace! -)

nadeem

Greetings, O fellow openminded students! (The rest of you, the logout button is on the top, below the search box. Thanks!)

Haven't read the whole thread, so please forgive me if I'm simply repeating.

'Forgiveness' for me is less about anyone else but more about me. Hate, anger and rage are ties, bonds and shackles that will burn and wear and weigh you down and tear you up. To forgive, for me, is therefore about escaping this 'hell' and setting myself free.

4243
And for he who is patient and forgives, then that is an indication of strength.

...it takes guts...

Nadeem

thegod

nadeem wrote
Greetings, O fellow openminded students! (The rest of you, the logout button is on the top, below the search box. Thanks!)

that's 1 of the more novel greetings i have come across....

though i am not sure why u are helping the rest to locate the logout button! grin

Haven't read the whole thread, so please forgive me if I'm simply repeating.

-S

'Forgiveness' for me is less about anyone else but more about me. Hate, anger and rage are ties, bonds and shackles that will burn and wear and weigh you down and tear you up. To forgive, for me, is therefore about escaping this 'hell' and setting myself free.

interesting take! -)

....but what do u do if somebody subjects u to the same treatment day in and day out?

....do u forgive them at the start and end of each day...and every second of the day? -)

4243
And for he who is patient and forgives, then that is an indication of strength.

...it takes guts...

yeah...and perhaps a good, level head? -)

greetings O openminded student! -)