forgiveness
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nadeem wrote
Hehe... just thought I'd say something new -)lolz...and u suceeded mighty well at it!
... so that they may click it...
ah! kill so softly...u do..eh? gotta be wary of u bro! -S grin
Good question. As far as it is possible, I'd kill them... with kindness. -)
ah..the killer in u...not so off the mark...was i? hmm
"The servants of the Almighty are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace." (2563)
But again, as far as it is feasible, and taking into account what kind of hostility it is that is being aimed at me.
If it's simple namecalling, or oral abuse, then I have very high pain treshold, and I'd follow the quran on this one,
Insh'allah. Forgiveness won't even be a issue as I will refrain from hosting the feeling of blame towards him, insh'allah.If it's physical abuse, or wrongdoing that can cause me physical, and through that mental, pain. I'd be more repsonsive and confrontational. Difficulties of setting one self free becomes harder proportionally to the strengt of the shackles.
If someone beats me everyday, sure it'll be a ball-busting task to forgive that person, and no sane person should expect me to do that either. But God-willing, I'll let time heal my wounds.
legends hail job...but u aint doing so bad urself! grin
But, I want so much to able to look at violent and abusive people as those who are drowning in a big cold sea. If you go near them, they cling to you with such a force and in their panic they are likely to hit and knock out some of your theeth, but in those moments of stress, can you single out even one split second were you were hating that drowing person? Even if he is hitting you... Bothered, perhaps, but hating?
...perhaps, if u are able to look at it that way! -)
I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but that's my 2 cents.
sure u make (sense)! -)
salute to the openminded one! -)
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"b" is powerless against "a", and "a" continues to exploit....what should "b" do here?
....hate/curse/wish evil for "a".....or something else? -)
..ofcourse, besides doing all else s/he can do, including praying to god n blah blah blah! -)
salam! peace! -)
salam! peace! -)
Salam.
B is powerless against A and the latter guy continues with his behaviour? Okay.
Mr., B should do this think of Heaven.
What is heavier Paradise or returning fire?Let's say someone says to me"Hey, Alen, you look like a terrorist with that beard."
My response"May The God Almighty helps us all."
Why?
Because when i stand before The God Almighty, i will remember how back then i mentioned The God Almighty and all he did was naming me a terrorist and then The God Almighty will tell him the Truth. Among others, that i'm not a terrorist.The God Almighty knows best.
Salam. -
alen wrote
Salam.B is powerless against A and the latter guy continues with his behaviour? Okay.
Mr., B should do this think of Heaven.
What is heavier Paradise or returning fire?Let's say someone says to me"Hey, Alen, you look like a terrorist with that beard."
My response"May The God Almighty helps us all."
Why?
Because when i stand before The God Almighty, i will remember how back then i mentioned The God Almighty and all he did was naming me a terrorist and then The God Almighty will tell him the Truth. Among others, that i'm not a terrorist.okay...how if "a" says to "b" hey "b" and whaps him on the head, every couple of hours! -S
salam! -)
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okay...how if "a" says to "b" hey "b" and whaps him on the head, every couple of hours! -S
salam! -)
Salam.
I like this, i like games, as long as they are reasonable. rotfl
Whaps him on the head every 2 hours?
Would a person allow this?
Would you?
I wouldn't.Peace.
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alen wrote
I like this, i like games, as long as they are reasonable.no..."a" is entirely unreasonable! -S
Whaps him on the head every 2 hours?
thereabouts...maybe every hour if s/he fancies! -S
Would a person allow this?
like i said..."b" is powerless against "a"...if he tries to resists he will only end up gettin double the dose! -S
..so u wont fault "b" for hating "a" with every blood cell of his....or would u? -)
Would you?
-S
I wouldn't.
amen to that! -)
salam! peace! -)
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no..."a" is entirely unreasonable! -S
thereabouts...maybe every hour if s/he fancies! -S
like i said..."b" is powerless against "a"...if he tries to resists he will only end up gettin double the dose! -S
..so u wont fault "b" for hating "a" with every blood cell of his....or would u? -)
-S
amen to that! -)
salam! peace! -)
Salam.
I'm not saying a person should allow himself or herself to get beaten so you can defend yourself.
Yes, hit back if he hits you first, do not start the attack but defend yourself.Now, my question can you go away, somewhere where i will not be bothered by this person who wants to hit me or slap me?
Peace.
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alen wrote
I'm not saying a person should allow himself or herself to get beaten so you can defend yourself.
Yes, hit back if he hits you first, do not start the attack but defend yourself.cool! -)
Now, my question can you go away, somewhere where i will not be bothered by this person who wants to hit me or slap me?
are u asking me to get lost? -(
...or... if u mean whether "b" can move away from "a".....then no..."b" cannot escape "a"! -)
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cool! -)
are u asking me to get lost? -(
...or... if u mean whether "b" can move away from "a".....then no..."b" cannot escape "a"! -)
Salam.
No, brother, i did not say you personally to go away, i way referring to the example. The person B must therefore run away or simply go some place where person A will not be able to bother him or harm him in any way.
Person B can change continents.
For example, terrorists cannot enter USA because USA has military.
Unless if terrorists live in the White House or the Pentagon, that could be a problem. peace rotfl jedi handshakePeace.
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alen wrote
No, brother, i did not say you personally to go away, i way referring to the example.oh ok...phew
The person B must therefore run away or simply go some place where person A will not be able to bother him or harm him in any way.
Person B can change continents.cool...but i think i better stop bro...
...else u might want to run away from me...or rather drive me away...-S grin
For example, terrorists cannot enter USA because USA has military.
Unless if terrorists live in the White House or the Pentagon, that could be a problem.lolz
salam! peace! -)
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alen wrote
The person B must therefore run away or simply go some place where person A will not be able to bother him or harm him in any way.
Person B can change continents.by the way bro...that's indeed very good advice...(to) move away from those who are unjust to u...if possible! -)
peace! salam! -)
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wat im confused abt is that God gives us the right to take revenge according to Quranm yet at the same time says its better if we forgive...so is this a test to determine the levels of piety a muslim can reach? with the more pious one having the strength to forgive more?
also with respect to murder, the murderers family has the right to take another life or to forgive or to ask fr blood money..am i correct? if yes then wudnt this not break the cycle of violence?
also the quran mentions to kill those ppl who opressed muslims and to turn them out of their homes,just as they turned you out of your homes..isnt that contrary to establishing a system of peace which is based on forgiveness? -
but how is retaliating harshness with equal harshness going to solve the problem of violence..isnt forgiveness required in order to maintain peace and break this cycle? what good will come out of killing a man for a man, woman for a woman etc. why even give the option of killing as revenge.
in a war situation its different if its self defence, but why purposely take someones life in retaliation..its not going to bring the dead person back, and not going to help make peace.
please help me understand this in light of quran.
thankyou. -
but how is retaliating harshness with equal harshness going to solve the problem of violence..isnt forgiveness required in order to maintain peace and break this cycle? what good will come out of killing a man for a man, woman for a woman etc. why even give the option of killing as revenge.
in a war situation its different if its self defence, but why purposely take someones life in retaliation..its not going to bring the dead person back, and not going to help make peace.
please help me understand this in light of quran.
thankyou.It is called justice Madam hail
Gross as it is for the state to put murderers (and in this instance the prime conspirator in the double murder) to death, there has to be an ultimate penalty for the cold-blooded planning and brutal murder of a citizen, or citizens.
No-one would pretend that the ultimate sanction prevents such murders, but such is the state of law enforcement and the sentencing policy in the UK that even the most gruesome of murders realistically go unpunished.
Hanging should be brought back for what might be termed first-degree murder, where the evidence is incontrovertible, and where, as in the case of the American woman, it has been proven to have been pre-planned, or has been the result of exceptional and horrifying violence. And let juries decide upon that.
And were hanging to be brought back, one would hope that Albert Pierrepoint's diaries and notes are still available, for he perfected the art.
http//www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/woman-executed-for-double-killing-2088351.html
Read this news along with comments. peace -
peace rraza, all,
Some murderers are "cold-blooded" and forgiving them or taking blood-money in exchange may let them go free and kill again. A system which allows options is the way to go. For someone who is genuinely repentant and/or made a mistake etc then forgiveness can be an option. The Quran, once again, shows its practicality and forethought when dealing with real life situations.
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Peace Wakas, all
Good point. I can understand if a person who kills once or twice, accidentally, or out of ignorance, can be forgiven. If the person repents, he or she should also be forgiven. But if a person kills 10 persons, then is forgiven, and kills 10 more persons, then death penalthy is the way to stop him or her from killing more people. However, you can put the person in jail (isolation) for the rest of his/her life and then he/she will not be able to kill more people. But the problem with this solution is that is is not justice. And it costs to much for the society. Prison costs are expensive. Besides, maybe prison is unnatural. As far as I know, there are no verses in the Quran that tells us that people who are criminals should be put in jail. If prison was a good solution, perhaps the concept of prison would be in the Quran. But it isn't.
By death penalty, other people will see the consequences of killing innocent people, and then other people will not commit the same acts. They will learn a lesson from the punishment of death penalthy. The Quran is the book of justice.
Quran 545
And We have decreed for them in it that a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and wounds to be similar; and whoever remits anything of it, then it will cancel sins for him. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked. -
It is called justice Madam hail
Exactly.
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thankyou all for your replies..i agree killing people who are mentally sick or enjoy killing just for the sake of it is sadly the only way to go about it. killing in self defense, or by mistake should be forgiven as was the case with moses.
"And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- ?aram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers."
i find this verse a bit....harsh.true its got to do with self defense..but it indicates that death is the ultimate punishment for disbelief, why focus on death, which is a wordly punishment, why not use preventative measures to avoid conflict in the first place, how is violence supposed to make people believe that a group is on the Truth?....surely people who disbelief are Gods creation too, why does He want us to be so harsh to them?... wat about those verses which talk about repel evil with good, why not follow those?..killing disbelievers is not really a good strategy to make them believe, or to make peace.
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....surely people who disbelief are Gods creation too, why does He want us to be so harsh to them?...
First we have to know who the kafirs are. From my understanding the kafirs are not those who disbelieve in God. The kafirs are those who are evildoers, and do corruption. It is not about belief, it is about action. They are not kafirs because they disbelive in God or islam, but they are kafirs because they destroy the earth, and harm human beings. In my opinion, traditional understandings of the concept of kafir is wrong. Maybe some other brothers or sisters who are more knowledgeable than me on this topic can answer your question more comprehensively.
Peace rraza
wat about those verses which talk about repel evil with good, why not follow those?
If a group has harmed a group, and does not repent (want to continue harming the group), giving it's members gift or doing cute talk won't work. A perfect example is a dictator. No matter how much a person will repel the evil actions of the dictator with good, it won't work. This is reality.
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peace rraza,
I recommend reading the context of verses. You imply it is about disbelief, or about making them believe, but that is not found in the verse.
The word "kafir" did not mean "disbeliever" in Classical Arabic pre-Quran. It came to mean this by a repeated association. In order to understand the word, one must study it and its development, e.g. see here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15870.0
