Alif Laam Meem
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This interpretation is definitely possible. Can you present a rendition of 21-2 so we can examin this further?
Salam maxq,
Excellent to see such an in-depth examination of the semitic languages!
And a very good thought on alif-lam-meem.
However, I think one must keep in mind the common definitions of the word as accepted in the different languages.
Then we can compare the accepted definitions with the Phoenician in order to "fine tune" our understanding of the word.Let's look at alif-lam-meem.
In Hebrew alif-lam-meem is defined as
(strong's numbers 0481 and 0482, and Gesenius)- to bind, to be bound (as in the tongue-to be silent)
a. (Niphal) - to be dumb
- to be bound
b. (Piel) binding (part.) - in silence, silent
- to be solitary, forsaken, widowed
In Arabic alif-lam meem is defined as
(Hans Wehr page 29, Lane's Lexicon vol 1 pg 119)- to be in pain or suffer
These two meanings are pretty different but one can see that in both cases the word doesn't suggest something pleasant.
If you look at alif lam meem in Phoenician one could interpret it in a way that is somewhat consistant with the meanings in Hebrew and Arabic (in the sense that this word is not something one would consider pleasant)
I would also alter the meanings of the ancient hebrew symbols somewhat, to be the following
(source is ancient-Hebrew.org)Alif -> Phoenician Symbol = Ox = This is a picture of the head of an ox. The ox was the strongest and most versatile animals among the Hebrews livestock. The ox was used to pull carts or a plow, it provided meat and leather and it was one of the animals used in sacrifices. This animal was the "all" powerful and "all" versatile animal of the Hebrews.
The strength of the ox is used for hauling and pulling.
Laam -> Phoenician Symbol = Shepherd staff = The Hebrews raised sheep for wool, food, leather and milk. The Hebrew shepherd always carried a staff which could be used as a weapon to protect the flock from predators as well as to discipline the sheep. The staff also had a bent end that could be used to pull a "lamb".
The staff is seen as the authority and protection of the shepherd over his flock. The kings scepter comes from this imagery.
Meem -> Phoenician Symbol = Water= The picture is of the waves of water on the sea. There is no English word derived from this letter, but, our letter "M" was derived from this letter.
The sea was seen by the Hebrews as a mighty and chaotic (from the storms) place.
The main difference would be that I would interpret the meem to mean "chaos" or something similiar.
Thanks maxq!
Excellent work!Salam,
Arnab - to bind, to be bound (as in the tongue-to be silent)
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Salam maqx,
That's interesting and definitely possible.
My thoughts were leaning more towards "strong teaching in chaos" in the abstract
or more along the lines of your original thoughts but replacing "water" with "rought water"
such as goading the ox through rough waters.Salam,
Arnab -
Just studied the Heiroglyph and its transition to Phoenician
The symbol for Mem in Ancient Egyptian, and it is indeed "water" and not sea. Water ws the bread and butter for them, and I think the same goes for Phoenicians. They were in the Lebanon area, so a sea strom is unlikely. Rather an earthquake would be more of a problem for them.
So I think my interpretation is correct as well.
Also, another interesting point. Ha or "H" as in Kaaf, Haa, Yaa, Aeen, Saad means window, or Jubilation of BIRTH!!! Both Jesus and John-Baptist are spoken of in this Chapter (Maryam)
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salam maxq,
That's a good point. Especially when you point out the Egyptian meem is "water" It would make more sense that water would be something favorable as opposed to unfavorable.
Very interesting.Salam,
Arnab -
Thanks Arnab,
Further, extending the concept of K H Y 'A tS based on the context of Chapter 19 (Mariam)
Kaaf -> branch/palm-of-hand
Haa -> Birth
Yaa -> Arm/Extending/Extension/Reaching-Out
'Aeen -> Eye/Vision
tSaad -> Papyrus/Plant/TruthHence Kaaf Haa Yaa 'Aeen tSaad -means- A Branch's Sprouting Extends the Vision of Truth (of the Scripture)
Just studied the Heiroglyph and its transition to Phoenician
The symbol for Mem in Ancient Egyptian, and it is indeed "water" and not sea. Water ws the bread and butter for them, and I think the same goes for Phoenicians. They were in the Lebanon area, so a sea strom is unlikely. Rather an earthquake would be more of a problem for them.
So I think my interpretation is correct as well.
Also, another interesting point. Ha or "H" as in Kaaf, Haa, Yaa, Aeen, Saad means window, or Jubilation of BIRTH!!! Both Jesus and John-Baptist are spoken of in this Chapter (Maryam)
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Salam,
maxq can you please post a referrence where I can find that the Egyptian meem=water?
I just did some quick research on Egyptian hieroglyphics and I keep coming up with meem being the symbol of an owl and nun being a symbol of water.
However, I still think that water might be favorable as opposed to unfavorable.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
Nevermind maxq, I just answered my own question.
For all those interested there is a brief history of meem on wikipediahttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M
quote from wikipedia
"The letter M derives its shape from the Phoenician Mem, via the Greek Mu (, μ. Semitic Mem originally pictured water, in all probability. It is speculated that Semitic people working in Egypt c. 2000 BC borrowed a hieroglyph for Water that was first used for an alveolar nasal (/n/, because of the Egyptian word for Water, "n-t". This same symbol became used for M in Semitic, because their word for water began with that sound."
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
Further, extending the concept of K H Y 'A tS based on the context of Chapter 19 (Mariam)
Kaaf -> branch/palm-of-hand
Haa -> Birth
Yaa -> Arm/Extending/Extension/Reaching-Out
'Aeen -> Eye/Vision
tSaad -> Papyrus/Plant/TruthHence Kaaf Haa Yaa 'Aeen tSaad -means- A Branch's Sprouting Extends the Vision of Truth (of the Scripture)
Very possible!
Would you mind posting some links as to where you are studying?
Salam,
Arnab -
The reason why I think Kaaf here means branching and not hand-palm is because of the Verse, "Allah-u Noor-us Samaawaat-i w allArdh" mentions that the allegory of His Light is as if it were a lamp that is hung on an "OLIVE" tree... Then another instance where the Quran says "W at-Teen-i w az-Zaitoon-i wa Toor-i Seeneen" ... It mentions mount Sinai (Moses) and the (Mount of) Olive (Jesus). You see the connection?
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Salam,
Interestingly enough, the word kaph in hebrew (strongs # 3709) is defined as the following
- palm, hand, sole, palm of the hand, hollow or flat of the hand
a. palm, hollow or flat of the hand
b. power
c. sole (of the foot)
d. hollow, objects, bending objects, bent objects - of thigh-joint
- pan, vessel (as hollow)
- hollow (of sling)
- hand-shaped branches or fronds (of palm trees)
- handles (as bent)
Salam,
Arnab - palm, hand, sole, palm of the hand, hollow or flat of the hand
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Salam All,
This is a very interesting topic and discovery. I myself have something interesting to add, but I am not sure what the relevance of it may be as of yet, although I know there must be some connection. In the Quran, it speaks of David, and of his Psalms as a clear sign.
4163 We have inspired you as We have inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And We inspired Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and Jesus, and Job, and Jonah, and Aaron, and Solomon; and We have given David the Psalms.
1755 And your Lord is fully aware of who is in the heavens and the Earth. And We have preferred some prophets over others, and We gave David the Psalms.
I myself inherited from my family through generations,a book of psalms alone, not within a bible. Just a book of psalms, that was published in 1901. It is translated directly from the original Hebrew Psalms.
In it I found a startling coincidence to Alif Lam Meem, It begins within Psalm CXIX Phoenician(?) words in order of how they are in Psalm CXIX and their numbered verses.
*note these are only found in Psalm CXIX (Chapter 19 ?), where as Psalms is from Psalm I-CL, (1-150 chapters)Aleph- numbered 1-8 verses
Beth- numbered 9-16 verses
Gimel-numbered 7-24 verses
Daleth-numbered 25-32 verses
He-numbered 33-40 verses
Vau-numbered 41-48
Zain-numbered 49-56
Cheth-numbered 57-64
Teth-numbered 65-72
Jod-numbered 73-80
Caph-numbered 81-88
Lamed-numbered 89-96
Mem-numbered 97-104
Nun-numbered 105-112
Samech-numbered 113-120
Ain-numbered 121-128
Pe-numbered 129-136
Tzaddi-numbered 137-144
Koph-numbered 145-152
Resh-numbered 153-160
Schin-numbered 161-168
Tau-numbered 169-176I would be more than happy to translate to any of you these verses, however I would like to know if anyone can tell me all the meanings of the Phoenician_hebrew names ? ???
Note the highlighted Words, are that of Alif Lam Meem, same as in our Quran. wow
Any ideas?
hmm
Honor