Criticism of Mecca and Kaaba
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Salaam Ahmed
I did not ask for tales known by all native muslims. I was hoping that you enjoy the experience of think ing and analysing the text, and trying to see what exactly is in it, not what is in your subconscious.
And yes, I went twice there. I saw people pushing each other to kiss the black stone, people kicking each other to find a place near magaam ibrahim, and people stampeding to death each other to stone the devil. And no, nothing holy about it; there is no holiness in violence and selfishness.
I understand that the word on its own means forbidden,m but when you say Al Bayt Al Haram, it can't mean the forbidden house
and
what you don't also understand and will never understand that Al before the word Haram has totally affected its meaning because you can not forbid something by using the word Haram with the Al
That is manipulation! How do you understand " "? Some kind of "holy money"?
And where, by God, did you get this unheard of grammar rule? "7araam" is an adjective, and like all adjectives conforms to the noun it describes in all aspects, including definiteness.you still used the flawed root method to understand the meaning of the word Al Haram
Just because you do not understand, or unable to use the root system, does not make it flawed. Yet you use it, unconsciously, to prove a yet funnier thing
sacred (from Latin, sacrum, "sacrifice
and to rest your case! What case? That sacred means holy? Was this even on the table?
While you are at dictionaries, why not look up the word "7araam" and see what it means. -
Salaam Ahmed
Hi Samia
I did not ask for tales known by all native muslims.
what a rude comment that was, it seems I should not even reply to you, my mistake sorry
on the other hand I never heard of such thing called Native Muslims, it made me laugh, haha, thanks a lot
I was hoping that you enjoy the experience of think ing and analysing the text, and trying to see what exactly is in it, not what is in your subconscious.
irrelevant so I have to dismiss it
And yes, I went twice there. I saw people pushing each other to kiss the black stone, people kicking each other to find a place near magaam ibrahim, and people stampeding to death each other to stone the devil. And no, nothing holy about it; there is no holiness in violence and selfishness.
Dismissed
and
That is manipulation!
Of course you are a clever Arabic language manipulator
How do you understand " "? Some kind of "holy money"?
never heard of such, it looks like you made it during the damage recovery mode
did the Quarn mention Al Mall Al Haram?
And where, by God, did you get this unheard of grammar rule?
what grammar rules?
Please I want a rule from the Arabic grammar not from your barbie world of imagination
"7araam" is an adjective,and like all adjectives conforms to the noun it describes in all aspects, including definiteness.
as I said many times the word is tranlsated as The Sacred and as I bloody showed that the Sacred means The Holy
I have no time to waste with your ignorance really
Just because you do not understand, or unable to use the root system, does not make it flawed. Yet you use it, unconsciously, to prove a yet funnier thing
Of course it is flawed, I showed many examples along with the example of Nifaq by TG, you are just one of those ignorant so called believers, and that is your problem not mine, so please dismiss me as I don?t want to discuss any matter with you, cheers in advance for your cooperation
and to rest your case! What case? That sacred means holy? Was this even on the table?
My reply was for ignorant Waleed, why you are sticking your nose in it?
While you are at dictionaries, why not look up the word "7araam" and see what it means.
Dismissed
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Here is another one from Wikipedia
Al-Bayt ul Haram which may be translated as 'the honorable house'.
Taken from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masjid_al-Haram
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samia wrote
Are you serious or just kidding? If I wrote that it did not exist, how would I analyse it? And what gender did I give it?i know u are sick....
and probably in that state u claimed that ur analysis of the word "assignment" was part of analysing the verse...
however that word does not exist in the verse....so u were not breaking down the verse...despite ur claim!
count 1 -)
Moreover, I was not commenting on your post, but on Tanweer's, who also used the word "assignment". Your quote was to refer to his change of mind and adopting your misunderstanding.
that's a lie...i never referred to his "change of mind"....if u can prove that i did so....then do so...else do not lie about what i refer to! -)
...it was after u put forth ur conjecture based on some unexisting method of analysing what qualifies as "the truth from lord" that he "changed his mind"!
count 2 -)
Is this why you are picking on me in this childish way?
i asked u a simple question what do u mean by "it" is irrelevant in english!
...u did not explain (and still havent) ur understanding of english grammar....but came up some conjectural arabic grammar....i do not wonder at the timing of ur attempt! grin
Anyway, I am not going to pursue this specific matter with you anymore
i know u will stand by ur word! -)
but u can pursue another specific matter
what did u mean by "it" is irrelevant in english? -)
salaam samia! -)
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Salaam Ahamed, Ayman and all
I have been following this Topic Intently and I wish to Add my 50 Cents worth . I would like to ask Bro Ahmed , How can he be so Certain that the Kabbah is the One in Makkah and It was built by Ibrahim and Ismail ?
If you care to Read The Quran 3444 , you'll be left with No Doubt that No Other Prophets or Messengers Ever went Near Makkah .
Bro Ahmed , Ibrahim NeverNamed Us Muslim(s) , rather it was He ( Allah ) Who did so . Please Read the relevant Verse again .
There Is No Evidence whatsoever That , all other Prophets and Messengers mentioned in the Quran Ever went to do Hajj ( Visit kabba and Makah ) . I am sure you know that there were Thousands other Prophets and Messengers that Allah sent to every nation on Earth taht weren't mentioned in the Qur?n .
Islam was from the Beginning of Humanity 319 and Ibrahim was told ( commanded ) by Allah to Follow the Diin of Noah 4213 .
As for Maqam Ibrahim , They were a Pair of Cut-Out Footprint made of Aluminium or Silver ( They were Far Too Small For even an average Adult ) , in a Golden Colored Cage . I prayed there for 21 days , day and nights ( this was b4 I followed God?Quran only .
As Per 396-97 , This Maqam Ibrahim was Supposed to Be Inside The Kabba Not Outside . I am very surprised that Bro Ahmed never Noticed this So Called Maqam Ibrahim confused There was alaso Hijiir Ismail outside the Kabba .
Was not Easy to get Near The Black Stone yeah as Thousands of Hajjs Clamoring to touch and Kiss It voodoo
Although I managed to Touch the Black Stone several Times by Going Tawaf well after Midnight , Though I refused To Kiss It as It Feels like Like .......as Describe by Contributors to this Forum , though It smells very Nice because It was Continually Lubricated by Perfume Oil )Bro Ahmed , It kabba was The One in makkah and a Physical Building , How come None of the Other Prophets and Messengers ever went there as Per Quran ? or even as Per Hadiths ???
In 337 Allah took Covenant From Noah , Ibrahim , Moses and Other Prophets , Yet there is Evidence of them Visiting this GOD's House ?
Awaiting eagerly for your Reply Bro Ahmed . Cheers
almarh0m
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Salaam Ahamed
Hello
I have been following this Topic Intently and I wish to Add my 50 Cents worth . I would like to ask Bro Ahmed , How can he be so Certain that the Kabbah is the One in Makkah and It was built by Ibrahim and Ismail ?
Not again man, did you read the info on my web site regarding this issue? I'm still adding to it, every line and sentense in Ayman and Layth articlaes regarding this issue will be replied to on my wen site,
On the other hand, the burden is not on me to prove it, I only believe what the Quran says clearly in Arabic along with nothing but common sense, the proposed allegation is anything but sense, it fails in almost every aspect thay talked about, they also had to manipulate the language to serve their own low desires, therefore if they want to refute the Kabba being house of Allah, then they need to bring on the table compelling evidences from the Quran, not their tom and jerry vein talk
If you care to Read The Quran
If I care to read the Quran !!!!!
What was that exactly?
3444 , you'll be left with No Doubt that No Other Prophets or Messengers Ever went Near Makkah .
(44)
-> what are you talking about exactly man?
Also does any prophet need to to go to Mecca?
Where is that law from the Quran?
Did you care to read the Quran man?
Bro Ahmed , Ibrahim NeverNamed Us Muslim(s) , rather it was He ( Allah ) Who did so . Please Read the relevant Verse again .
Look bro, if you are going to talk Quran and verses then you need to bring the verse and walk me through it, it is not like I will do it for you, now let me do it for you again
(7
-> Now, you mean Hua is referring to Allah not Ibrahim?, fine, I accept both possibilities that it is either Allah or Ibrahim, how this serves you conjecture against the Kaaba?
There Is No Evidence whatsoever That ,
Fine, now let me ask, so?
all other Prophets and Messengers mentioned in the Quran Ever went to do Hajj ( Visit kabba and Makah ) .
what laws you have from the Quran that every prophet should do Hajj to the Kabba?
Any vein talk will be dismissed man
I am sure you know that there were Thousands other Prophets and Messengers that Allah sent to every nation on Earth taht weren't mentioned in the Qur?n .
So?, how this serves you low desires of making the Kabba a pagan god?
Islam was from the Beginning of Humanity 319
(19)
A clear cut lie, the above verse never said the words from Beginning of Humanity, why you are adding extra words to Allah words?
Also what you say makes no sense because we know that He sent other religions before Islam, therefore your argument is very tom and jerry and has to be dismissed especially it was based on manipulating 319 above by adding your words to the words of Allah
and Ibrahim was told ( commanded ) by Allah to Follow the Diin of Noah 4213 .
(13)
Another clear cut manipulation to the verse, The verse above is only talking about these two aspects that are the same in all religions that Allah sent
- that keep to obedience
- and be not divided therein
Nothing more, now I ask you how this serves your low desires that the Kabba is a pagan god?
As for Maqam Ibrahim , They were a Pair of Cut-Out Footprint made of Aluminium or Silver ( They were Far Too Small For even an average Adult ) , in a Golden Colored Cage
Who said that these foot print is Maqam Ibrahim, if it is you then you are a liar, if it is the Saudis then they are liars
. I prayed there for 21 days , day and nights ( this was b4 I followed God?Quran only .
I don?t care what you did with it, neither what other humans do with nor that you become another sect follower,
What I care about is is the foot print Maqam Ibrahim as the Quran told us?
Now forget the Saudis, I?m asking you
As Per 396-97 , This Maqam Ibrahim was Supposed to Be Inside The Kabba Not Outside . I am very surprised that Bro Ahmed never Noticed this So Called Maqam Ibrahim confused There was alaso Hijiir Ismail outside the Kabba .
Are you talking to me or talking to others about me?
Who is bloody confused I may ask?
Regarding the word Fihi, I explained this before that the word does not have to mean INSIDE, I even showed verses from the Quran to confirm what I said, but I hate repeating what I said, so you either look for it or tough luck to you
Was not Easy to get Near The Black Stone yeah as Thousands of Hajjs Clamoring to touch and Kiss It voodoo
Does Allah told us to come near the black stone when we do Hajj?, no He didn?t so I may ask , who is the confused one in here?
Although I managed to Touch the Black Stone several Times by Going Tawaf well after Midnight ,
Sounds like you were an Idol worshipper
Does the Quran say we have to touch the Black Stone when we do Hajj?
Though I refused To Kiss It as It Feels like Like .......as Describe by Contributors to this Forum , though It smells very Nice because It was Continually Lubricated by Perfume Oil )
I?m not really interested to hear your confusion experience, but how this will help ya prove that the Kabba is a paganl god?, oh yeh you have seen the light and that is your proof
Bro Ahmed , It kabba was The One in makkah and a Physical Building , How come None of the Other Prophets and Messengers ever went there as Per Quran ? or even as Per Hadiths ???
Is it a law in the Quran that all prophets has to do Hajj to it?
No it is not, it is only a law in your Barbie world of imagination
In 337 Allah took Covenant From Noah , Ibrahim , Moses and Other Prophets , Yet there is Evidence of them Visiting this GOD's House ?
Is any evidence reuired for us to believe?
No
Is it a law for them to visit it
No
Who are you kiddin man?
Not me
Awaiting eagerly for your Reply Bro Ahmed . Cheers
almarh0m
you got it, but I?m sorry I?m not interested to discuss it with you further
Cheers
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Salaam tg
No, I was not that sick!!. You were repeating the same thing as if you were not listening to me. And now the same is taking place
however that word does not exist in the verse....so u were not breaking down the verse...despite ur claim!
So please, please, return to my post and you will see that I said (rephrasing) that the word assignment did not exist, but rather a verb (I had the verse in Arabic in front of me), and I said that a pronoun cannot refer to a verb, and that "qibla" was feminine and the pronoun was masculine, so no reference to it either.
Quote
Moreover, I was not commenting on your post, but on Tanweer's, who also used the word "assignment". Your quote was to refer to his change of mind and adopting your misunderstanding.that's a lie...i never referred to his "change of mind"....if u can prove that i did so....then do so...else do not lie about what i refer to! -)
Rephrasing "your quote was to refer" should be read as "quoting you was to refer", or "I quoted you so as to.."
what did u mean by "it" is irrelevant in english? -)
I think it was in this context (but it does not matter. The example is enough to explain what I mean)
the path of The God and the institution of hearing and obeying the restriction that we had appointed (it) for the people.
In the Arabic origin (and in Arabic in general) a pronoun is suffixed to the verb referring to the direct object (or to the preposition in case of indirect object), unlike in English. So, the (it) between brackets appears in the Arabic but not in the English, because of differences of syntax between the two languages.
As I had the verse in front of me in Arabic with this pronoun (which does not show when translated in English), I made this comment. Now you believe that I was analysing the verse written in Arabic?Example If I want to literally translate into English this sentence alkitaabul ladhi eshtaraytuhu, it will be (the book which I bought it). That's what I meant by (the "it" is irrelevant in English).
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Salaam Ahmed
Thank you for your Reply mate . I just have a couple of Questions for you If that is ok .
- Do you believe that Rasul-Allah Ahmad/Muhammad was born and Lived in Makkah ? If your answer to this question is affirmative , Then Ibrahim and Isma?l could never have been to Makkah ! as we can see in 3444 below
"We had not given to them any Scriptures to study , nor did we send to them Before You any Warner . ( TM ).
Wa maa aatainaahum min Kutubiy yadrusuunahaa wa ma Arsalna ilaihim Qablika min Nadzir ".
- In your Reply to my last Post you asked why "where in the Quran does it say That Prophets/Messengers must go to Makkah " . Now I am asking you If those prophets/Messengers do not have to Perform Hajj to Kabba/ Makkah , then should ordinary Muslim/Believers are asked to perform The Hajj to Kabba/Makkah ???.
You also said in your last post That Allah has Created Other Religion , could you Please show me what is the Religion other than Islam that You said Allah Created???
Thank you mate . Wassalamu' alaa manittaba?l hudaa
almarh0m
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Peace almarh0m,
In addition to your points in the last post, I would like to draw your attention to your other point that was ignored/denied by Ahmed, when he claimed that hajj was not ordered to other prophets.
4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.
As you rightly pointed out, the system inspired to Prophet Muhammad is the same system ordained for Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Now "hajj" is part of that system. Thus we can clearly see that Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus were ordered to perform "hajj" as "hajj" is part of the system, which was same for the various prophets as mentioned in 4213.
The fact is that Abraham, Noah, Moses, and Jesus never came to Mecca IF it was the birthplace of Prophet Muhammad, as you again rightly mentioned per 3444. This clearly proves that "hajj" is not to Mecca, and the "kaaba" cannot be in Mecca. This is confirmed by al-qur'aan where "hajj", "kaaba", and "albayt alharam" are linked to Bakkah, and not Mecca. Nowhere in al-qur'aan are "hajj", "kaaba", and "albayt alharam" linked to Mecca, and The God does not make typos as Ahmed would like you to believe, and The God knows how to spell contrary to what Ahmed would like you to believe.
In addition to that, Ahmed admits to the so called Kaaba in Mecca containing idols, when he accused you of being mushrik
Sounds like you were an Idol worshipper
Does the Quran say we have to touch the Black Stone when we do Hajj?
Subsequently, him insisting that the so called Kaaba in Mecca is "albayt alharam" at which "hajj" is supposed to be performed goes against 2226 where we are clearly told that albayt cannot contain any idols
2226 And We have appointed to Abraham the location of the Sanctuary "Do not set up anyone with Me, and purify My Sanctuary for the passers by, and the remaining/devoted, and the humbly submissive."
Thus we can see that Ahmed is contradicting himself and exposing his deceptive tactics and manipulations of the words of The God with his own words rotfl
By insisting that "hajj" is supposed to be performed at a "bayt" containing idols, and claiming that The God says so, he is trying to decree a system which has not been authorized by The God and inventing lies about The God.
4221 Or do they have partners who decree for them a system which has not been authorized by God? And if it were not for the word already given, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors will have a painful retribution.
621 And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.
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Salaam Ahmed
Good morning
Thank you for your Reply mate . I just have a couple of Questions for you If that is ok .
well, you have to understand that my attitude in my replies is not going to be charming, the reason is simply I?m accused of being, dumb, deaf and blind by those who are promoting this non sense, on te other had I didn?t really reject the concept on the fly, I actually studied all what they said and I was angry to see that most of their arguments either irrelevant, vein talk, ro non sensible, I have spent a lot of time looking at this subject before I even started to reply to it, indeed a few months back I was perused by BmmBmm to reply to it and I declined but promised him that he will see me coming back on it really hard, and that is what I?m doing now and for about 3 months regarding this subject
so if you don?t like my style, I?m sorry but it is motivated by anger against you rather an anger towards the silly and vein talk presented that you guys think is compelling evidences, hmmm, to be honest, I have never read ONE compelling evidences so far from any one who promote or follow this conjecture
- Do you believe that Rasul-Allah Ahmad/Muhammad was born and Lived in Makkah ?
Of course, however a few years later he had to migrate to Yathrib as you know
If your answer to this question is affirmative , Then Ibrahim and Isma?l could never have been to Makkah ! as we can see in 3444 below, "We had not given to them any Scriptures to study , nor did we send to them Before You any Warner . ( TM ).
Wa maa aatainaahum min Kutubiy yadrusuunahaa wa ma Arsalna ilaihim Qablika min Nadzir ".You have to know that Ibrahim was only a Nabi, I can?t recall that he was ever called Rasool in the Quran, therefore Ibrahim was not really sent to any humans as a messenger from God, rather who was a prophet who should establish the foundation of submitting to Allah alone without associating any partners from him as well raise the foundation of His Bayt, therefore using 3444 as an argument is not valid because 3444 can be talking only to Quraish, I.e. Allah never sent a messenger nor a book to Quraish, not the whole Arabs as you trying to say, I also know that Ismail lived in another area after he left on his own, but I just can?t see how this should prove that the Kabba is a pagan God?
See how 3444 said clearly ? ?
See. ?Wa Ma ARSALNA ILAIHIM Qablak min Nazir?, can you see the capital words, which clealy means ?SENT TO THEM?, THEM is Quraish, and sent means NO MESSENGER WAS SENT TO THEM BEFORE MOHAMMAD, ie. they received no Messenger but possibly they had a prophet in the past, the bottom line 3444 can never be considered a conclusive evidence that it was talking about all humanity
Now you need to answer this question, IS JERUSALEN an uncultivated valley?
- In your Reply to my last Post you asked why "where in the Quran does it say That Prophets/Messengers must go to Makkah " . Now I am asking you If those prophets/Messengers do not have to Perform Hajj to Kabba/ Makkah ,
I didn?t say they didn?t performed hajj, what I?m saying where is it that law that every messenger and prophet sent by Allah on earth should do Hajj in a specific place and that place must be the same for all?
then should ordinary Muslim/Believers are asked to perform The Hajj to Kabba/Makkah ???.
why you are comparing us with them,? please don?t resort to FFI common fallacy which I called Tutty Fruity fallacy, it involves mix apples with mangos then treating the lot as either apples or mangos
we will never come near them and we will never be dealt with in this life as Allah dealt with them, now Allah ordered me to do Hajj and he never conditioned it that all prophets and messengers before should do it the same as us, indeed Allah ordered us to marry a max of 4 widows with orphans, while He allowed Mohammad to marry more than 4 with no orphans, i.e. any laws apply to an average human who received a messenger from Allah do not have to apply to those messengers at least before the law put in place, therefore the law of Hajj to Al bayt Al Haram was told to us in the Quran and that is the starting point of that law, there might Hajj to other places before the verse was revealed, but that has to become obsolete when the order was revealed from the same and one God , i.e. where other prophets did their hajj before the verse was revealed carry no importance whatsoever, it will only be important to those willing to go astray
You also said in your last post That Allah has Created Other Religion , could you Please show me what is the Religion other than Islam that You said Allah Created???
That is a silly request really, becayse the Quran clearly told us that Allah sent a religion to the Jews and a religion to the Nasaara, and sure they have different laws other than what is in the Quran, I agree that all religions sent by Allah agree on the basics, like one God, JD, Hell?paradise, but their ritulas was the same and they even have things that were haram to them and not to us and vica verse, therefore it is different teaching regarding our affairs in this life, they all the same after this life, the following verse clearly told us that the Jews and Nasarra have different Millah to Islam,
And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.
(120)
The following verses clearly tells us even the sequence in how they have been sent of these three religions
43 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command
44 It was We who revealed the law (to Moses) therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
ications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.45 And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.
46 And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).
47 And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
48 And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
(43)
(44)
(45)
(46)
(47)
(4-> See
-> Verse 43, ?when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command ?
-> Verse 44, ?It was We who revealed the law (to Moses) therein was guidance and light.?
-> Verse 45, ?And We prescribed to them?
-> Verse 46, ?And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel
-> Verse 47, ?And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it;
-> Verse 48, ?And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth,?
What else I can say, clearly Allah is telling us the each of the above group has their own religion, their own book which should have their own sets of laws, there are similarities of course and that is how each religion should confirm what is before it, using these similarities, yet each gruoup has their own sets of rules that is called Religion
If the rules are the same in all religions then Allah would have just send all prophets with the same book, but He did not as He told us in 534-48
Thank you mate . Wassalamu' alaa manittaba?l hudaa
almarh0m
Cheers
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Another tom and jerry argument that all prophets should have done hajj to the same spot
Noah was before Ibrahim and Ibrahim was the one who built the Bayt, therefore your silly argument that all prophet should have done Hajj to Al Bayat Al Haram (The Holy House) is nothing but dust in thin air and if it proves anything, it should prove a clear cut case of low IQ
Cheers
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Peace all,
Al-qur'aan tells us that Abraham was ordered to purify the bayt (2125, 2226), and to raise the foundations FROM the bayt per 2127 (not raise the foundations for the bayt which is a mistranslation as the arabic words are "qawa3id min albayt", i.e. foundations FROM the bayt, and not "qawa3id li albayt" meaning foundations for the bayt), and that the FIRST bayt was at Bakkah (396). Where does The God tell us that Abraham built the first bayt ? If one builds the bayt, one raises foundations for the bayt, or raises the bayt from the foundations, not raise foundations from the bayt. The maqam of Abraham being in the first bayt (397) does not mean he built it; it could have been in existence before him and then because he went there, his maqam was in it.
Another example of deception and inventing lies about The God by Ahmed perhaps ?
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Salaam Ahmed and Others
For a Native Arabic Speaker , you are you are amazingly Ignorant Ahmed ! I will not reply to any of your Verbose, Juvenile and Nonsensical Posts in the Future . Just look at at your Tom and Jerry Argument , Does it not Occur to you , That , We can Reasonably Deduce as Per 396 and 397 That Bakka or the First Bayt was established by Adam or People of his Generation ?
I think it's Time for you to do some Introspection, and learn to be more Humble ands acknowledging other People's Opinion. Or do you apply These Rules 1. Ahmed the Expert in anything Arabic is always Right.
2. If Ahmed is Wrong, please see Rule Number One .have a nice day matey and have another VB , Cheers
almarh0m
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Peace be with you
In 3444 "natheer" is it warner or prophet or messenger ?
Please point me to any prior discussions on the differences of messenger and nabi.
Hello bro
A Nazir can be considered a Messeeger because a Messneger must be sent to someone to deliver somethig to them, this is at least what I believe should diffrentiate between a prophet and a Messneger, there might be other differences but the one that stands out for me that Messengers are sent to others to deliver or say something to them
Salam
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Peace warner,
Relevant links
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7916.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10608.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12404.0
http//www.geocities.com/thewisekoran/mess.htm
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Salaam Ahmed and Others
For a Native Arabic Speaker , you are you are amazingly Ignorant Ahmed ! I will not reply to any of your Verbose, Juvenile and Nonsensical Posts in the Future . Just look at at your Tom and Jerry Argument , Does it not Occur to you , That , We can Reasonably Deduce as Per 396 and 397 That Bakka or the First Bayt was established by Adam or People of his Generation ?
I think it's Time for you to do some Introspection, and learn to be more Humble ands acknowledging other People's Opinion. Or do you apply These Rules 1. Ahmed the Expert in anything Arabic is always Right.
2. If Ahmed is Wrong, please see Rule Number One .have a nice day matey and have another VB , Cheers
almarh0m
Dismissed
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Peace warner, all,
NO MESSENGER WAS SENT TO THEM BEFORE MOHAMMAD, ie. they received no Messenger but possibly they had a prophet in the past
3444 can be talking only to Quraish, I.e. Allah never sent a messenger nor a book to Quraish, not the whole Arabs as you trying to say
?Wa Ma ARSALNA ILAIHIM Qablak min Nazir?, can you see the capital words, which clealy means ?SENT TO THEM?, THEM is Quraish
A Nazir can be considered a Messeeger because a Messneger must be sent to someone to deliver somethig to them, this is at least what I believe should diffrentiate between a prophet and a Messneger, there might be other differences but the one that stands out for me that Messengers are sent to others to deliver or say something to them
The following qur'aanic facts will YET AGAIN expose the above quoted deceptions of Ahmed by telling people partial truths and hiding facts and inventing lies about The God !
Prophets can also be messengers (7157, 7158, 961, 1951, 1954, 3340, 3353) but all messengers are not prophets.
Prophets are warners
2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and warners, and He sent down with them the Scripture with the facts so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the clarity, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. And God guided those who believed with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. And God guides whoever He wishes to a straight path.
3345 O prophet, We have sent you as a witness, and a bearer of good news, and a warner.
2119 7184 7188 112 1112 137 1589 17105 2249 251 2556 2792 2950 3428 3446 3523 3524 384 3865 3870 469 488 502 5150 5151 6726
Messengers are warners
4165 Messengers who were bearers of good news and warners, so that there will be no excuse for the people with God after the messengers. God is Noble, Wise.
648 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners; whoever believes, and does good, then there is no fear for them nor will they grieve.519 1125 1856 257 469 712
Qur'aan is a warner
411 H.M.
412 A revelation from the Almighty, the Merciful.
413 A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a compilation in Arabic for a people who know.
414 A bearer of good news, and a warner. But most of them turn away; they do not hear.Thus "warner" in the context of the following verses would apply to prophets, messengers, and scriptures and it follows that neither a prophet nor a messenger nor any scripture was sent before Muhammad to the people he was sent to
2846 And nor were you on the side of the mount when We called. But it is a mercy from your Lord, so that you may warn a PEOPLE who received no warner before you, perhaps they may take heed.
323 Or do they Say "He fabricated it!" No, it is the truth from your Lord, so that you may warn a PEOPLE who never received a warner before you, in order that they may be guided.
3444 We had not given to them any Scriptures to study, nor did We send to THEM before you any warner.As everyone can clearly see that 2846 and 323 mention that Muhammad was sent to PEOPLE who never received a warner before him, thus in 3444 "them" refers to these PEOPLE and not just Quraish as Ahmed wants you to believe by deceiving you and inventing lies about The God (refer to his deceptions as quoted above).
Yet another deception and inventing lies about The God by Ahmed is as follows
You have to know that Ibrahim was only a Nabi, I can?t recall that he was ever called Rasool in the Quran, therefore Ibrahim was not really sent to any humans as a messenger from God
970 Did the news not come to them of those before them, the people of Noah and 'Aad and Thamud. And the people of Abraham, and the dwellers of Median, and those overthrown. Their messengers came to them with clarity; it was not God who wronged them, but it was themselves that they wronged.
This verse clearly shows that Abraham was also a messenger !!
29 They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves without noticing.
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Does the name Oben sound familiar rotfl