I dream about evolution being true after getting some "signs" in real life
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also discussed at http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/6640/0/
Peace all,
I know its been a long time. Have been quite busy. I put "signs" in quotes for now because im not 100% sure and i want your opinions. Infact this happened last winter but i found it to be very significent so i wanna write this up. I was sitting in a train going from hannover to hamelin(two cities in germany). You may know trains here have seats facing each other. A girl sat in the seat infront of me thus facing me, whose looks reminded me, and i know this may sound offensive, of an ape LIKE creature. After a few minutes i noticed she had a bag besides her, which had three llines of writing, the first two being covered by a band. The last in the third row read "LUCY". I was shocked, i thght wht to do now. Could this have been coincidence? I didnt think about that anymore, then a few days later i had a dream in which my brain actually quite rationally worked out the pattern from fish to reptile evolution. I saw the pattern, yes the pattern of change, indicating a high probability of transition in a way of how the changes adjusted themselves to become reptile from the fish. All this against my conscious expectations. Everyone whos read my posts will know tht i strongly rjected macro evolution, yet i get these signs in reality and then my very own brain works out the pattern. Ive not told this to anyone yet but since i wanna be as honest as possible i decided i must post this. Does GOD wanna show me that macro evolution is also true and divinely controlled? Has mankind evolved from apeLIKE creatures? Im eagerly awaiting your opinions. GOD Bless! -
Peace K,
Good to see you back.
You already know my position and I'm not sure what I can offer regarding your first questionDoes GOD wanna show me that macro evolution is also true and divinely controlled?
All I can say is that God wants us to see His signs throughout creation. This is oft-repeated throughout the qur'an and can mean several things. The simplest proof in nature, for me, is as you noticed - that we are eerily similar to apes.
Has mankind evolved from apeLIKE creatures?
If we aren't evolved from a common ancestor, then I cannot explain why we would be so alike in so many ways. In my view, the "be" command of God was in the beginning of the universe, which set forth the chain reaction that led to our existence. Saying that we come from apes does not diminish our standing, but elevates the standing of apes and nature in general. All life exists within God's energy.
If we take the traditional approach of man descending from heaven, we have to ask why we would be built so similar to apes. If we are far above and beyond the animals, then we should look nothing like them.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "tay",
The being alike argument is very week as one can say "separate but common design". Same compainies design things for different purposes yet having many similarities. The point is i saw scietists claiming a striking microbiolgical pattern, transition from apeLIKE(not ape, its a diff branch of creatures springing probably originally from half apes, probably thts y quran says "a thing not worth mentioning". Apes are relatively stable creatures whilst according to the evolution movies those apelike crartures passing through the transition make weard noises like "aahaahaiii", as if they are struggling to get ahead. It seems like a hard process) to men. And then i have this dream. This ofcourse would be amazing and a real proof for such evolution as the genes slowly and gradually lock into another. Remnats of such have been found in different apes around the world which came together in man through the aplit off as mentioned earlier. it all seems to add up now. GOD Bless! -
Interesting dream Jonny. I have had dreams of actually working out mathematical equations (all perfectly understood at the time) and winning nobel prizes but when I wake up, I don't recall exactly how I worked them out to the exact detail. So, I would think these types of dreams are common with different permutations, they even have some kind of name for the category. Maybe you were giving it too much thought and were consciously limiting yourself to one side only and deep down inside you thought, what if the other side is right? This fear/uncertainty of your's maybe surfaced in the dream, making you question the other side anew and perhaps your mind's way of helping you achieve a clearer and a more complete picture from the ground-up. Once we have doubts and consciously reject them, sometimes dreams are the portal through which we clearly see past all the stuff we keep telling ourself.
It could be something entirely different for you, however. You alone might be able to work out what it means to you. In either case, imo, the pointers are towards starting again and seeing things clearly with an open mind.
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Peace
@ Savegecarrot
Its not only the dream but that COMBINED with the actual event that happened to me in real life. Moreover i DO REMEBER QUITE accurately the retile transisiton. I saw the patterns matching and even as i woke up it made perfect sense.@Wakas
Yep i guess tht thread of urs makes a lot of sense. GOD Bless! -
peace Johnny,
I'm glad that you are questioning your beliefs. We all should do that.http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7I73DNguRI
so which way did it happen?
The only reliable thing we have in this world is our ability to reason (which is based on the constant laws of the universe). Our reason tells us, especially when we look at the evidence, that there was/is some process through which creatures evolved.
If not, how do we have so many different types of plants and trees?
why have we found fossils of dinosaurs hundreds of millions of years old, yet the oldest human fossil we have found is only a few thousand years old. Why is that?
anyway, there are sooo many questions like the above that blow holes into the intelligent design/creationism theory. -
Peace "phoenix1",
peace Johnny,
I'm glad that you are questioning your beliefs. We all should do that.http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7I73DNguRI
so which way did it happen?
The only reliable thing we have in this world is our ability to reason (which is based on the constant laws of the universe). Our reason tells us, especially when we look at the evidence, that there was/is some process through which creatures evolved.
If not, how do we have so many different types of plants and trees?
why have we found fossils of dinosaurs hundreds of millions of years old, yet the oldest human fossil we have found is only a few thousand years old. Why is that?JK- That can still be debunked by creationists. Its difficult to define whts human and whts not by looking at skeletons of various apelike creatures. Oldest homo erectus fossil as far as ive read was 150000 yrs old. As to why there r so many plants one can claim GOD created ONE KIND of plant out of which through micro evolution evolved a variety of plants. They call this process VARIATION so that is no proof yet for macro evolution. BUT the microbiological patterns are striking. They can be considered proof and then ofcourse the other things associated with it can be considered supporting factors.
anyway, there are sooo many questions like the above that blow holes into the intelligent design/creationism theory.
JK- Holes into creatinism, DEFINITELY. Into intellgent design? Well, that depends how you define "intelligent design". If you are from those ID believers who support the theory of "irreducible complexity", then id say yes there are holes in that. As for the "fine tune" argument of the entire universe, that stands solid and tht my derar friend is also a part if not the most importasnt part of ID. GOD Bless!
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Ah, the apelike Lucy was a real woman! ;D
Moreover i DO REMEBER QUITE accurately the retile transisiton. I saw the patterns matching and even as i woke up it made perfect sense.
Nothing for it then, good luck with everything working out. I've never seen someone so into evolution though. Maybe Darwin.
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Salam.
37102 And when he grew enough to work with him, he said "My son, I am seeing in a dream that I am sacrificing you. What do you think?" He said "O my father, do what you are commanded to do. You will find me, God willing, patient."
37103 So when they both had surrendered, and he put his forehead down.
37104 And We called him "O Abraham,"
37105 "You have believed the vision." It was such that We rewarded the righteous.
37106 Surely, this was an exacting test.37107 And We ransomed him with a great animal sacrifice.
37108 And We kept his history for those who came later.
37109 Peace be upon Abraham.
37110 It is thus that We reward the righteous.
37111 He was of Our believing servants.Abraham believed the vision.
Do you also believe the dream?
No offence.Peace.
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Theory of evolution summarized
Dead matter (clay) + water + time (age of earth) = talking clay?
There are billions of forms of life each distinct and not one giant green glob.
al-Bad?'
http//wahiduddin.net/words/99_pages/badi_95.htm
The Wonderful Originator, The Unprecedented and Incomparable Inventor, The Absolute Cause
The One who creates in wonderful, awesome, amazingly original ways that have no precedent whatsoever.
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peace Johnny
JK- Holes into creatinism, DEFINITELY. Into intellgent design? Well, that depends how you define "intelligent design". If you are from those ID believers who support the theory of "irreducible complexity", then id say yes there are holes in that. As for the "fine tune" argument of the entire universe, that stands solid and tht my derar friend is also a part if not the most importasnt part of ID. GOD Bless!
ID is just another name for creationism, unless you are saying that ID is "guided evolution."
If "fine tune" is what I think it is, then yes that stands firm.
Evolution, as I see it, is a fact. But there are 2 distinct interpretations of that fact. One is that evolution proves that everything is random and that there is no God. And the other is that evolution shows the intricate design of everything, and thus leads us to a belief in God.But that Family Guy clip was hilarious.
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Peace "alen",
Salam.
37102 And when he grew enough to work with him, he said "My son, I am seeing in a dream that I am sacrificing you. What do you think?" He said "O my father, do what you are commanded to do. You will find me, God willing, patient."
37103 So when they both had surrendered, and he put his forehead down.
37104 And We called him "O Abraham,"
37105 "You have believed the vision." It was such that We rewarded the righteous.
37106 Surely, this was an exacting test.37107 And We ransomed him with a great animal sacrifice.
37108 And We kept his history for those who came later.
37109 Peace be upon Abraham.
37110 It is thus that We reward the righteous.
37111 He was of Our believing servants.Abraham believed the vision.
Do you also believe the dream?
No offence.Peace.
JK- Now aint tht amazing. I thought about tht verse too in this regard. However i have a real life incident to back my dream up too which i believe cannot be coincidence. Moreover we have scientific evidence of a strking microbiological pattern. GOD Bless!
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Peace "phoenix1",
peace JohnnyID is just another name for creationism, unless you are saying that ID is "guided evolution."
JK- Yes thts exactly what i meant.
If "fine tune" is what I think it is, then yes that stands firm.
Evolution, as I see it, is a fact. But there are 2 distinct interpretations of that fact. One is that evolution proves that everything is random and that there is no God. And the other is that evolution shows the intricate design of everything, and thus leads us to a belief in God.JK- This is just as crazy as the creationist theory. According to fine tune the probability of the universe emerging by chance is 10^-150 meaning tht the chance tht theres no Intelligent Designer, who controls the evolution process here, is 1-10^-150 > 99.999999999999999999%. At 99.9996% everyone wld except tht the child is his on a DNA parent test. So it would be ludicrous to deny GOD on such a high probability. Infact it would be insanity. Infact evolution makes GOD even look more awesome. Think of an engineer who shoots out micro parts in such a way with such angles that they assemble both into the environment and the object(s) which are to emerge therein. However one muct also not forget tht the above low probability is only with the KNOWN constants of the universe. There can be much more. Infact when we look at it rationally we know that every particle needs to consist of a further smaller particle. Until now weve reached to quarks. Quantum fluctuations are also the successive vibration of particles which consist of further pparticles which consist of yet further ones and so on. In this case we have infinite complexity and thus it would require infinite intelligence to create such right here. GOD Bless!
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Peace "nun de plume",
Theory of evolution summarized
Dead matter (clay) + water + time (age of earth) = talking clay?
JK- This is a gross misrepresentation. The dead matter ,water all have to be placed in such a way under such and such conditions in order for living things to emerge out of them.
There are billions of forms of life each distinct and not one giant green glob.
JK- Yes but they couldve all emerged from the same unit from which they diversified and thats what they most probably did. The microbiologicl pattern btw living things has added enormous proof to this phenomenom. Hence everytghing comes from One Source and there is no argument now that GOD is One.
al-Bad?'
http//wahiduddin.net/words/99_pages/badi_95.htm
The Wonderful Originator, The Unprecedented and Incomparable Inventor, The Absolute Cause
The One who creates in wonderful, awesome, amazingly original ways that have no precedent whatsoever.
JK- GOD indeed creates in the most wonderful way. Nobody should doubt that. The point is HOW did / does GOD continue His creation and the most reasonable by current scientific analysis is through the process of evolution. Evolution is the most exciting concept. Whenever i think of it i feel like being in a space ship travelling with my fellow humans to explore new worlds and understand the marvels of the universe. This is what i believe GOD wants us to do ultimately here in this universe. GOD Bless!
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JK- This is a gross misrepresentation. The dead matter ,water all have to be placed in such a way under such and such conditions in order for living things to emerge out of them.
Peace jonny_k,
Yes and reason for the ? in the equation.
http//genetics.gsk.com/overview.htm#genome
"We have approximately three billion base pairs (6 billion bases total) of DNA in most of our cells. This complete set of genes is called a genome. With the exception of identical twins, the sequence of the bases is different for everyone, which makes each of us unique."
Indeed there are signs and even identical twins DO NOT have the same prints!
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC8kUPZEHAI
God bless!
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Peace K,
Maybe those debates we've had will become a thing of the past, after this. handshake
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Peace "nun de plume",
Peace jonny_k,
Yes and reason for the ? in the equation.
http//genetics.gsk.com/overview.htm#genome
"We have approximately three billion base pairs (6 billion bases total) of DNA in most of our cells. This complete set of genes is called a genome. With the exception of identical twins, the sequence of the bases is different for everyone, which makes each of us unique."
Indeed there are signs and even identical twins DO NOT have the same prints!
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC8kUPZEHAI
God bless!
JK- Ofcourse each of one is unique. That shows diversifacation right there doesnt it? This is exactly the idea of evolution that every offspring of a living creature is slightly different from the parents. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "andya",
Peace K,
Maybe those debates we've had will become a thing of the past, after this. handshake
JK- Absolutely im very confident about this. Everything finally seems to add up. It is something id never have expected myself but yet it happened. Tell me how many ppl on this planet have actually seen visions regarding evolution being true? All we hear is pschics, quackery and religious events like the virgin mary, etc. i cannot just put away this vision especially it's association with the real life event i experienced. GOD Bless!
