I dream about evolution being true after getting some "signs" in real life
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Peace
Does not the second law of therodynamics refute evolution.Also the Anthropic principle poses problems.Also do not mutations create defects instead of good conditions.The theory of evolution as formed by Darwin must be taken into its imperailst context.Though the modern theory of evolution is diferent from darwin's.I personally neither denie nor accept evolution.On the basis of the Quran evolution is supurtable since the Quran calls God the "evolver".Still therodynamics which I think is considered a fact by sceintists does pose probelms.The anthropic principle also makes things alittle complecated for belivers of the theory.And mutations have posed such a major probelm that some darwinists now denie transitanal forms to save the theory from distorction.Overall their is alot of evidence both for and agianst evolution.If you look at the evidence above it is easy to denie evolution.But it just depends on how you use the evidence ).
Lareb
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Peace
Does not the second law of therodynamics refute evolution.Also the Anthropic principle poses problems.Also do not mutations create defects instead of good conditions.The theory of evolution as formed by Darwin must be taken into its imperailst context.Though the modern theory of evolution is diferent from darwin's.I personally neither denie nor accept evolution.On the basis of the Quran evolution is supurtable since the Quran calls God the "evolver".Still therodynamics which I think is considered a fact by sceintists does pose probelms.The anthropic principle also makes things alittle complecated for belivers of the theory.And mutations have posed such a major probelm that some darwinists now denie transitanal forms to save the theory from distorction.Overall their is alot of evidence both for and agianst evolution.If you look at the evidence above it is easy to denie evolution.But it just depends on how you use the evidence .
Lareb
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Peace
Does not the second law of therodynamics refute evolution.Also the Anthropic principle poses problems.Also do not mutations create defects instead of good conditions.The theory of evolution as formed by Darwin must be taken into its imperailst context.Though the modern theory of evolution is diferent from darwin's.I personally neither denie nor accept evolution.On the basis of the Quran evolution is supurtable since the Quran calls God the "evolver".Still therodynamics which I think is considered a fact by sceintists does pose probelms.The anthropic principle also makes things alittle complecated for belivers of the theory.And mutations have posed such a major probelm that some darwinists now denie transitanal forms to save the theory from distorction.Overall their is alot of evidence both for and agianst evolution.If you look at the evidence above it is easy to denie evolution.But it just depends on how you use the evidence ).
peace
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Sorry i didnt mean to have 3 textboxes.My bad.I hope you dont mind.
peace
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Peace
Does not the second law of therodynamics refute evolution.Also the Anthropic principle poses problems.Also do not mutations create defects instead of good conditions.The theory of evolution as formed by Darwin must be taken into its imperailst context.Though the modern theory of evolution is diferent from darwin's.I personally neither denie nor accept evolution.On the basis of the Quran evolution is supurtable since the Quran calls God the "evolver".Still therodynamics which I think is considered a fact by sceintists does pose probelms.The anthropic principle also makes things alittle complecated for belivers of the theory.And mutations have posed such a major probelm that some darwinists now denie transitanal forms to save the theory from distorction.Overall their is alot of evidence both for and agianst evolution.If you look at the evidence above it is easy to denie evolution.But it just depends on how you use the evidence .
peace
Peace L.H.,
-second law doesn't refute evolution because life is not a closed system.
-anthropic principle doesn't refute evolution because it only shows that humans are fine-tuned to the universe.
-most mutations are neutral, the damaging ones don't tend to get inherited but the beneficial ones does.
-forcing to attach imperialism to evolution is just like attaching terrorism to Islam or something like that.
-what darwinists deny transitional forms? transitional fossils do exist. I use one for my avatar here.I invite you to learn more about evolution from talkorigins.org
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Astrophysicist Paul Davies
?There is no doubt that, even in the crude form, the hypothesis of an intelligent designer
applied to the laws of nature is far superior then the designer considered in the previous
section (of his book red.), who violates the laws of nature from time to time by working
miracles in evolutionary history. Design-by-laws is incomparably more intelligent than
design-by-miracles.If I were an omnipotent being who wanted to make an inhabited
universe like ours, and I could achieve this simply by conjuring up what I wanted when I
wanted it, I wouldn?t regard my activities as very clever. But to select a set of laws that,
without nay periodic fixing up and micromanagment, can bring a universe into being and
bring about self-organisation, self-complexification and self-assembly of life and
conciousness-well, that looks very clever indeed! So the ?intelligent?design beloved of the
Intelligent Design movement strikes me as not very intelligent at all, in contrast to a
designer of laws of nature which by themselves have such astonishing creative ability
without the need for intervention and miracles. Intelligent design of the laws does not
conflict with science, because it accepts that the whole universe runs itself according to
physical laws, and that everything that happens in the universe has a natural
explanation.There are no miracles other than the miracle of nature itself. You don?t
even need a miracle to bring the universe into existence in the first place, because the big
bang may be brought within to explain the origin of the universe from nothing, or by
assuming something like eternal inflation. The designer-of-laws is responsible for the
universe, and might be thought of as upholding its existence at every moment, but does
not tinker with its day to day operation. The type of God I am describing comes close, I
think, to what many scholarly theologians-and for that matter quite a few scientistsprofess
to believe in.?Page 226. The Goldilocks Enigma by Paul Davies, 2006.
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Peace people,
Just my view, No offence.
Since the time I was studying biology in highschool and then some more in university (although my major wasn't biology) - I was very much aware of the complexity of the genome code set - it was a very complex set of ATCG codes.
I'm sure many people here including myself don't know how to put more ATCG code in our own genome to make us better - even how highly people say we humans "evolved" - but the single-cell lifes, the fish, dog, etc. knew and did it? I mean the fish knew how to put AAAAT....................... etc. to add this and that to its genome little by little and became reptiles?
I always, until now, wonder how a sigle cell life form (which probably came into life out of lightning into some special mud) knew how to encode ATCG into its own genome to make it better and then became this and that.
Even the GMOs which are done by specialists in special laboratories are merely cut and paste techniques. I never expect that the fish knew more than the GMOs specialists in those laboratories.
Now, I know that "natural selection" is not "genome encoding".
As a summary in my view
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Mud (protein based or whatever) can never turn into a single cell "life" even you put how much lightening or thunder (and I don't belive that false "russian" experiment which says it can).
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Single cell life forms, fish, dogs, apes and dog's can't encode things into their genomes.
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An African or Asian person is as much human as any of you (I say this because racists like to put that view that we're "sub-human" or less evolved/developed than them and I hope you don't believe it too). According to the biology I learnt, if we're not same "homo sapiens" then the children of cross race wouldn't be able to reproduce anymore (for example the offspirng of a horse and a donkey can't reproduct anymore...).
If I or anybody here or any human being in the world still appear as more "ape like" than yourself to any of you, Then, apart from the reasons above, please consider this verse too
4913 O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.
It is God who caused us to change into nations and tribes - so "you may know one another". I hope it is not understood as a sign to know evolution from people who look more "ape like" instead.
Also
638 And there is not a creature in the Earth, or a bird that flys with its wings, but are nations like you. We did not leave anything out of the record; then to their Lord they will be gathered.
This makes me see the word "nations" here describing the vast differences within the different species of creatures. In God's perfect design "record". Something deeper than Linnaean taxonomy - as nations are differences within the species (from 4913 - it is shown that nations and tribes are in the same "mankind" species).
God alone is the designer - the human body you're living in is God's design, clearly not an invention which apes or whatever designed and encoded into what is currently called the human genome.
In the same way, the reptile's genome are not designed by the fish, etc...
I hope this post provides some benefit to fellow humans.
May God Guide & Bless.
Peace,
Zidane. -
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Peace,
Respectfully.Brains connect all sorts of things and on many occasions things don't even go together.
I have dreamt about standing in line and boarding the plane (to go to USA) with my two coworkers who have said they will never travel to the USA. So, why would my brain connect all that?
I would say that brain is experimenting with all the material it has in the memory bank. It needs to be occupied while the consciousness sleeps.God knows best.
Glory be to our God.
Peace. -
Peace "zidan",
Common ancestory between man and apes has been proven beyond dount EVEN on the genetic level. See chromsome fusion
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee_Genome_Project#Genes_of_the_Chromosome_2_fusion_site
http//youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk
NOTE that "Ken Miller" is a catholic and should actually have much more difficulty accepting evolution than those who follow Quran alone coz the Bible gives, if taken literally, a very spontaneous type creation account. The Quran on the other hand says that GOD created us IN THE WOMB AND IN STAGES. NEVER does it mention Adam was created as an adult spontaneously and also adam does not necessarily refer to a single person either but the initial humans on the african continent. So if Ken still, despite his religion dictating the otherwise and he yet managed to reconcile, why do we where the Quran is already in favor of evoluion try to work against it? ITS SIMPLY COZ WE LET OURSELVES GET INFLUENCED BY YOUNG EARTH CREATIONISM i.e. EVANGELICAL CHTISTIANS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN on one level or the other!Heres further molecular evidence(Refernces provided at the bottom)
http//talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section4.html#retroviruses
http//talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section4.htmlLast but not least check out Ibn-e-Khaldoun's book "al-muqaddimmah" pages 74-75 who wrote 500 years before darwin
"This world with all the created things in it has a certain order and solid construction. It shows nexuses between causes and things caused, combinations of some parts of creation with others, and transformations of some existent things into others, in a pattern that is both remarkable and endless.""One should then take a look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power of touch. The word 'connection' with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the first stage of the newest group."
"The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys, in which both sagacity and preception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man. This is as far as our (physical) observation extends."
GOD has already ordained the laws of te universe as such that everything self assembles according to His plan. Thats why GOD also says in the Quran that He raises the clouds, He sends down water from heaven, He asked the heavens and earth to come together willingly or unwillingly etc etc. Does this mean GOD intervenes everytime to make these systems to work? Think man. Even sunnis accept that the creation of the universe happened via natural processes over billion yrs. We are part of the universe and were created by GOD via His laws in stages as the uran says too AND NOT SPONTANEOSULY. GOD Bless!
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Salam,
Evolution is true but whether humans from apes of any other species is still debatable. Ultimately any specie that existed and those that survived now all came from God' creation.
Is not He, who created the heavens and earth, able to create the like of them? Yes indeed; He is the All-creator, the All-knowing.
His command, when He desires a thing, is to say to it 'Be,' and it is.
Look at the creation of the earth. If you compare it to human creation, the human creator has to, from time to time, come and repair his creation.
In contrast, God created the outer part of the earth (lithosphere) as a series of plates virtually floating on liquefied inner materials. In effect, the earth when the earth experienced too much pressure, the Creator dont need to come back and repair the earth. Instead the earth repairs relieve itself in from earthquakes and volcanoes. After an earthquake or volcanoes, the earth's underlying pressure is release. It will take years for the same earthquake to return - when it has accumulated the required amount of pressure.
God bless.
Hati
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Salam,
Evolution is true but whether humans from apes of any other species is still debatable. Ultimately any specie that existed and those that survived now all came from God' creation.
Is not He, who created the heavens and earth, able to create the like of them? Yes indeed; He is the All-creator, the All-knowing.
His command, when He desires a thing, is to say to it 'Be,' and it is.
Look at the creation of the earth. If you compare it to human creation, the human creator has to, from time to time, come and repair his creation.
In contrast, God created the outer part of the earth (lithosphere) as a series of plates virtually floating on liquefied inner materials. In effect, the earth when the earth experienced too much pressure, the Creator dont need to come back and repair the earth. Instead the earth repairs relieve itself in from earthquakes and volcanoes. After an earthquake or volcanoes, the earth's underlying pressure is release. It will take years for the same earthquake to return - when it has accumulated the required amount of pressure.
God bless.
HatiPeace,
Respectfully.Humans did not evolve from apes, because of the one really big proof DNA.
If we came from the apes, we need to ask ourselves this what caused the change, will it happen again and why don't today's apes change into more humans, better yet, why don't today's humans change into apes?Glory be to our God.
God bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace bro "Alen",
Peace,
Respectfully.Humans did not evolve from apes, because of the one really big proof DNA.
If we came from the apes, we need to ask ourselves this what caused the change, will it happen again and why don't today's apes change into more humans, better yet, why don't today's humans change into apes?Glory be to our God.
God bless you all.
Peace.JK- If we did not come from apes then please explain to me the chromosome fusion at our chromosome pair 2 in the video above. Also how come we share many same endogeneous retroviruses with chimaonzees and other apes AT THE EXACT SAME LOCATION ON THE CHRMOSME WHICH IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF WE ACDQUIRED THOSE VIRUSES VIA COMMON DESCENT, OTHERWISE IF WE ACQUIRE ANY OF THOSE SAME VIRUSES ANYTIME THEY WOULD DOCK ON TO ANY PLACE IN THE GENOME AT RANDOM AND THE POSITION BEING THE SAME AS THOSE INHERITED ENDOGENOUS VIRUSES IS LESS THAN ONE IN HUNDRED MILLION. There goes the probability completely in favor of evolution.
As to why dont humans change into apes the answer is simple BOTH from a scientific as well as from a spiritual(if you like) perspective. From the cistific viewpoint humans are perfectly adopted to their environment, so are most other apes, so no more change. Spiritually GOD wanted to create humans and did not intend to create another species out of them. Hope that clears this issue up once and for all. GOD Bless! -
Peace "Hati",
Salam,
Evolution is true but whether humans from apes of any other species is still debatable. Ultimately any specie that existed and those that survived now all came from God' creation.
JK- All living things on earth sharing a common ancestor is NOT DEBATABLE AT ALL amongst 99.9% of the scientists in the entire world who are experts in biology and paleontology. Even most other scientists escept the theory. Next thing to understand is that early Islamic scholars also knew about ape-men evolution 500 years before darwin. Read the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16949.msg170045#msg170045
Infact if all the species on earth were created separately the argument for the existence of one God would infact weaken, YES it would indeed since then one could claim that different species, though similar, were created by a different god. BUT if evolution and common descent are true then there CAN BE ONLY ONE GOD. Whether someone denies the existence of God in totality is another issue to be dealt with separately but even atheists must admit that if there is a god He must be One for all coz of common descent.Is not He, who created the heavens and earth, able to create the like of them? Yes indeed; He is the All-creator, the All-knowing.
His command, when He desires a thing, is to say to it 'Be,' and it is.
Look at the creation of the earth. If you compare it to human creation, the human creator has to, from time to time, come and repair his creation.
JK- No this is wrong. GOD can and has setup the laws in advance which will govern all phenomena in nature. Thts why technically GOD is doing everything all the time. This does not mean theres any intervention but that GOD's laws are operating all over. As an example the Quran says
Do you not realize that GOD drives the clouds, then gathers them together, then piles them on each other, then you see the rain coming out of them? He sends down from the sky loads of snow to cover whomever He wills, while diverting it from whomever He wills. The brightness of the snow almost blinds the eyes.
Now do you or has anyone ever seen GOD intervene to move the clouds, gather them together and the whole process? So this verse symbolically shows that GOD has setup the system in advance and since relative to GOD time doesnt mean anything it is as if Hes directly doing it. Besides not even sunni/shia have ever claimed from this verse that GOD is intervening here everytime but when it comes to the creation of man then they do. This shows they got infleunced from the Bible as usual.In contrast, God created the outer part of the earth (lithosphere) as a series of plates virtually floating on liquefied inner materials. In effect, the earth when the earth experienced too much pressure, the Creator dont need to come back and repair the earth. Instead the earth repairs relieve itself in from earthquakes and volcanoes. After an earthquake or volcanoes, the earth's underlying pressure is release. It will take years for the same earthquake to return - when it has accumulated the required amount of pressure.
God bless.
Hati
JK- The Creator dont need to intrevene at all as ive mentioned His laws are constantly operating all the time which causes things to be fixed and that is similar to Him being everywhere all the time. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "Alen",
Spiritually GOD wanted to create humans and did not intend to create another species out of them. Hope that clears this issue up once and for all. GOD Bless!Peace,
Respectfully.If The Exalted God AllPowerful, The Most Wise, created human beings without the intention of creating another species out of them, then that is the answer to it. The Exalted God The Most Just, created humans and placed them on Earth, now that we are here, we have discovered we share the planet with another species - animals. So we are not part of animals and we have not come out of animals.
But you didn't exactly answere dme what, if anything, caused the change from an ape into human? A meteor? A virus? Alien beam? What caused an ape to become a human?
I don't think nor believe that we came from apes because there's no evidence to support sucha claim. And The Exalted God The Most Wise tells us in The Quran that He AllMighty created us and them, we are seperate species and we all glorify Him.
If a human came from an ape, i would really like to ask Adam and Eve how do they fit into this story.
Glory be to our God.
God bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace "alen",
Peace,
Respectfully.If The Exalted God AllPowerful, The Most Wise, created human beings without the intention of creating another species out of them, then that is the answer to it. The Exalted God The Most Just, created humans and placed them on Earth, now that we are here, we have discovered we share the planet with another species - animals. So we are not part of animals and we have not come out of animals.
JK- No what it means is that GOD used His natural laws which lead to finally evolve mankind at a certain stage. And also GOD does mention that if we become disobedient Hed replace us with another species whod appreciate His laws
We created them, and established them, and, whenever we will, we can substitute others in their place.
Creation is a continuous process operating via natural laws, not one of supernatural intervention at certain times.But you didn't exactly answere dme what, if anything, caused the change from an ape into human? A meteor? A virus? Alien beam? What caused an ape to become a human?
JK- MUTATIONS and NATURAL SELECTION on our ancestor primates, in the the gorillas and the great apes. Small changes accumulated, were accepted by tzhe nbatural envirmonet because they were suited, passed on those traits, then those traits were further enhanced through yet more beneficial mutations selected by the enviroment. The most prominent change was a single step beta cad gene mutation causing it to release more brain substance. This caused us to evolve the larger brain and finally become classified as human. Note that most mutations are neutral. Then there are harmful ones but occassinally a cerrtain mutation comes out to be beneficial in a certain environment at a certain time. Also dont forget that small mutations and small changes in the way in which geens express themselves i.e. genetic drift, occur in every new born. These accumulate over time and if beneficial are carried on.
I don't think nor believe that we came from apes because there's no evidence to support sucha claim. And The Exalted God The Most Wise tells us in The Quran that He AllMighty created us and them, we are seperate species and we all glorify Him.
If a human came from an ape, i would really like to ask Adam and Eve how do they fit into this story.
Glory be to our God.
God bless you all.
Peace.JK- THERES TONS OF EVIDENCE! I mentioned it in my above posts, the most significant evidence on the gentic level. Didnt you watch the clip on chromosome 2? Apparently not since you didnt answer me. Then i gave you the reference to endogenous retroviruses. Again you didnt answer me as to why we share the same ervs with chimps in the same location on the chromosome if we didnt evolve from a common ancestor. Think abt tht alot coz this is the greatest evidence and if you dont accept that you might as well reject the Quran. Heres the clip and refernce
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee_Genome_Project#Genes_of_the_Chromosome_2_fusion_site
http//youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk
Yet more evidence
http//talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section4.html#retroviruses
http//talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section4.html
GOD Bless! -
Peace,
Respectfully.If The Exalted God AllPowerful, The Most Wise, created human beings without the intention of creating another species out of them, then that is the answer to it. The Exalted God The Most Just, created humans and placed them on Earth, now that we are here, we have discovered we share the planet with another species - animals. So we are not part of animals and we have not come out of animals.
But you didn't exactly answere dme what, if anything, caused the change from an ape into human? A meteor? A virus? Alien beam? What caused an ape to become a human?
Mutations take place in DNA all the time; some are beneficial and some are not.
I don't think nor believe that we came from apes because there's no evidence to support sucha claim. And The Exalted God The Most Wise tells us in The Quran that He AllMighty created us and them, we are seperate species and we all glorify Him.
You could say that they are separate species, but that is only because of the slight differences in their DNA. Humans and chimps share about 98% of their DNA.
If a human came from an ape, i would really like to ask Adam and Eve how do they fit into this story.
Who knows. It might be meant metaphorically or maybe there was a historical Adam, but he came into existence through evolution.
I haven't decided on the matter of Humans having evolved from another species yet, as the Quran suggests that Adam was created in paradise where it is possible that the laws of our universe wouldn't necessarily apply. As for micro-evolution or the macro-evolution of other species, the Quran doesn't contradict this.
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Peace,
Respectfully.Adam and his wife were humans as we are told in The Quran. How do i know they were humans? Well, The Exalted God The Most Wise tells us in The Quran
" He taught Adam all the names then presented them to the angels, saying, "Give me the names of these, if you are right."If The Exalted God AllMighty taught Adam all the names, then, that creature that Adam was can't be dumb after arriving on Earth from Paradise.
We also know that satan said he will mislead us all and as we know, satan is not sugegsting to animals to commit shirk but humans, so, animals are apparently not going to Paradise nor Hell. Animals are here so we can eat. That's we can take chicken B and chicken E and multiplay them, even thought they are related. Chickens have ni identity like, no names, no ties.
Same with apes - they have only one rule Survival Of The Fittest.
Humans are different We Care.
We may share 98% of the DNA with apes, 99% and 100% but then one must ask him/herself"Was Adam an ape or a human?"God knows best.
God bless you all.
Glory be to our God.
Peace.