"Hajj" poll

unknownuser

Peace,

I was puzzled by this question for a while but then I found that the answer is staring us right in our face in 2185 !!

2185 Full moon of the scorching heat, in which the Quran was revealed; as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the full moon, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

Fasting is only for those BELIEVERS (2183) who WITNESS the full moon of the scorching heat !!!! So if one is in a space ship, one cannot witness that full moon, and that person in my opinion does not have to fast. In addition to that, in that situation one would be traveling, so when one comes back to Earth or any other planet, perhaps one can fast 10 days at any other time. Fasting according to al-qur'aan is only for believers/mumineen and not for all muslims in my opinion.

jonny_k

wht is the difference btw mumineen and muslims? r those muslims on space ships not mumineenor cnt they be considered as such under any circumstances? GOD bless!

unknownuser

Peace,

Of course the person on space ship can be one of the mumineen, and the reply I gave above would be applicable to such a mumin.

For difference between mumin and muslim please see

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/mumin.htm

unknownuser

Salaams Jonny, All,

I think Hajj of the quran is simply a word denoting Desire and aim which we should have all the time.

Obviously to know what that is you have to get the knowledge of it ,irrespective of whether you get it while at home or elsewhere from a web site or a book or even a mullah/sikh/padre or anyone.

And what is that its the how we aught to interrect with one another.

Its like the commandments in the bible and the old tetsament.

Its the 12 shahr.

4 are forbidden and 8 are encouraged.

All ayah's in which Shahr accurs - i think.

009.001
A declaration from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances -
009.002
Stay devoted in disposition to carrying out the four shahoor/ interactions and know that you not escape (from the punishment of) Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
009.003
And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger, to the people on the day of the Greater challenge- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye mustn?t frustrate Allah And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
009.004
(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfill your engagements with them to the end of their term for Allah loveth the righteous.
009.005
But if they withdraw from the forbidden interactions then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish counsel and are forthcoming then open the way for them for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Alshshahru alharamu bialshshahrialharami waalhurumatu qisasunfamani iAAtada AAalaykum faiAAtadoo AAalayhibimithli ma iAAtada AAalaykum waittaqoo AllahawaiAAlamoo anna Allaha maAAa almuttaqeena

The prohibited interaction for the prohibited interaction,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alqisasu fee alqatla alhurrubialhurri waalAAabdu bialAAabdi waalonthabialontha faman AAufiya lahu min akheehi shay-on faittibaAAunbialmaAAroofi waadaon ilayhi bi-ihsaninthalika takhfeefun min rabbikum warahmatun famaniiAAtada baAAda thalika falahu AAathabunaleemun

O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.

95
Then if they withdraw from the forbidden interaction/s then fight and kill the pagans wherever you find them????
2216
War is prescribed for you , and you dislike it ???..
2216
They ask you about the forbidden interaction/ killing in war, say war is a great/grave thing and preventing from way of Allah and disbelieving (in) Him and the submissions the forbidden and bringing forth from it (is) greater with Allah???
936
Verily the number of interactions (between people) with Allah are - twelve interaction in the Book of Allah ????.of them four are forbidden???..

The four Forbidden
2173
Verily He has forbidden upon you The Death and bloodshed and to revile/vilify with pride and to do opposite to Allah or in accordance with other then Allah ???

53

Verily He has forbidden upon you The Death and bloodshed and to revile/vilify with pride and to do opposite to Allah or in accordance with other then Allah ? strangling, beating, repulsing/ repelling, corruption and that (you) devour by obscenity or lewdness, except that/ what is legal to you and what lawful/ clean / pure by labour/ toil and that you seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows that is sin this day have given up all hope those who disbelieved of your religion so do not you fear them but fear Me????.

The eight not forbidden, but encouraged

9112
To repent/ return from sin or disobedience, To imbibe and reflect-on Gods attributes, To praise/ speak well of/ eulogize (others), To devote ones-self for/to others, To be humble, To be submitting/ Accepting, To enjoin good and forbid evil and To observe the limits set by God ????..

Remembering Bloodshed=shahr from 53 above
Menstruation ? Bloodshed.

And these two ayahs? follow on from 2222 which is telling you to avoid the menstruation periods.

for those who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a waiting for four bloods/periods is ordained; if then they return, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

if any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four bloods/periods and ten days When they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And Allah is well acquainted with what ye doa.

So what are the two shahr in the following?

004.092
YUSUFALI Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due) If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running by way of repentance to Allah for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.

Wilful killing is forbidden, but being an accident the two shahrs envisaged are to free a debtor and to pay compensation. But if you can?t do these then be so sad so you don?t have words to speak and may be to eat neither a few days for each shahr running consecutively.

And RAMADHAN

Page 1156-lanes

Ta-Daakhalanee Min Hadha Alamri-RAMADZUN
Distress and disquietude, or grief, crept into me from, or in consequence of, this thing.

A-RAMDZ-ho Alamro
The thing or affair pained him.

A-RAMDZ-ho
burned him/distressed him/pained him.

Page 1612-lanes

Shehrun = He made it apparent/manifest/notorious/public.
Or (it generally means) He made it apparent as bad, evil, abominable, foul, or unseemly, he exposed it as such.

Interaction causing pain was revealed in it the quran a guidance for mankind and clear proofs of the guidance and the criterion so whosoever testifies amongst you (to) such a shahr/ an interaction/ Shahr he should fast it and whosoever is sick or on journey (the same) number of days other wants Allah for you ease and not want for you hardship so that you complete the number and that you should magnify Allah on that he guided you so that you may give thanks.

SO THE QURAN WAS REVEALED IN PERIODS OF DISTRESS.

Funny thing is nearly all the progressive countries we want to live in have employed them and all the non productive world hasn't - i think.

God Bless All.

unknownuser

In my understanding the four restricted months are the first four lunar months starting with the full moon of the scorching heat.

And it's my understanding that the 4 restricted months constitute the period of mating for terrestrial mammals, and therefore hunting them is forbidden during that period.

These 4 months have to be in a fixed time, each year, and must conform with the mating season.

Peace..

unknownuser

Salaams pazazzu,

its okay to say that - i remember aidid said that and it made sense but that was before i started my own checks.

The four months of a mating season doesn't exist - it varies for different animals - different seasons and is not restricted to any four months as such so sorry Br. Aidid "you got it wrong".

And pazazzu check it if you have the time Br.

All you need is the internet.

But i believe another Br here at free minds has already debated this a little while back though.

God Bless pazazzu.

unknownuser

Peace all,

The debate/discussion on mating seasons and hunting being referred to by simple is at the following link

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12409.0

god1quran1

Peace all,

I voted "other" as in my understanding "hajj" is annual debate in any of the four restricted months at any local "bayt al-haram"/restricted house/sanctuary appointed not by majority but the real muslims (those who believe in God, and the Last Day, do not set up partners with God, and are righteous in action) and where no partners are set up with God, and which is safe.

Is'nt hajj a call to all the people and not restricted to only the muslims?

unknownuser

Salaam Azfar,

Yes it is for all people (397, 2227) but albayt alharam is appointed by muslims. It gives all mankind a chance to participate in a debate/discussion about The God and His message in a safe environment (397), where no partners are set up with The God (2226), and thus the bayt is to be appointed by muslims.

god1quran1

Salaam Azfar,

Yes it is for all people (397, 2227) but albayt alharam is appointed by muslims. It gives all mankind a chance to participate in a debate/discussion about The God and His message in a safe environment (397), where no partners are set up with The God (2226), and thus the bayt is to be appointed by muslims.

makes sense but not sure how you are translating albayt alharam though?

peace.

unknownuser

Salaam Azfar,

"Albayt alharam" is the physical building where the hajj/debate/conference takes place. It can be translated as the restricted sanctuary; the haram/restricted part coming from it being the physical building where the session of "almasjid alharam"/the institution of hearing and obeying the restriction also takes place, in addition to the hajj/debate, and also from hajj/debate taking place in the shahr alharam.

For more info on "albayt alharam" and "almasjid alharam" please see the following links

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg110854#msg110854

Also please see the following relevant article

http//free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

god1quran1

Salaam Azfar,

"Albayt alharam" is the physical building where the hajj/debate/conference takes place. It can be translated as the restricted sanctuary; the haram/restricted part coming from it being the physical building where the session of "almasjid alharam"/the institution of hearing and obeying the restriction also takes place, in addition to the hajj/debate, and also from hajj/debate taking place in the shahr alharam.

For more info on "albayt alharam" and "almasjid alharam" please see the following links

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg110854#msg110854

Also please see the following relevant article

http//free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

Peace. These are long articles and I do not want to disrespect your work by jotting down a 1 line response. Let me read them.

Am I to assume your understanding of Hajj is different from that of Aidid Safar? Is there any post on the forum that dissects Safar's work on the Hajj issue?

thanks.

unknownuser

Peace Azfar,

Feel free to use the search function to look up discussions about "hajj" on this forum. Also please read the various articles on this subject on the home page of the website.

Alen

Salam.

I read an article regarding pilgrimage and i think it is in Jerusalem. There's much to investigate and verify before i can go there.
God knows best.

Peace.

god1quran1

Peace Azfar,

Feel free to use the search function to look up discussions about "hajj" on this forum. Also please read the various articles on this subject on the home page of the website.

I will.
Can you answer the second part of my post#20

thanks and peace.

unknownuser

Peace Azfar,

I dont know if there has been a discussion on that subject here. I would recommended you to use the search function to browse this forum to see if there has been such a discussion.

god1quran1

Peace,

Can you please post your version of the translation of 2125. I could'nt find it anywhere.

thanks.

unknownuser

Peace Azfar,

Please see the posts at the following links

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8585.msg26137#msg26137

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg112573#msg112573

I am also ok with "salat" meaning "commitment to read/study the revelations of The God and remember The God".

You might find the following posts helpful too

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10220.msg49783#msg49783

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11105.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7327.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7402.0 (aidid's errors)

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7503.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7631.0

god1quran1

Yes this is exactly what I was looking for. I am very grateful for your help

thanks and peace.

god1quran1

In this verse related to the Hajj, Aidid translates the word al-ahillati as

2189 They ask you about worthiness (7456), Tell them, "It is the specific period for mankind and the challenge". And it is not virtuousness that you enter the house from its back - but it however the virtuousness of those who are observant to enter the house from its doors. And you shall observe God so that you may benefit.

citing 7456 as his evidence. Others translate it as

They ask you regarding the new moons, say ?They are a timing mechanism for the people as well as for the alhajj (Pilgrimage).? (2189)

Yas-aloonaka AAani al-ahillati qul hiya mawaqeetu lilnnasi waalhajji

There are a number of issues here

Is the word al-ahillati then derived from the root word H-L-L or A-H-L ?
Would an association with the root A-H-L render the above verse grammatically incorrect?
Or is it because the verse mentions time that we associate it with the root word H-L-L?
As a side note, considering what has been said above what does ahla albayti in verse such as 3333 mean?
Could any of these words have been derived from the root word H-L-K?

Any help would be appreciated.

peace.