My journey to islam
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Hi everyone!
I found your forum about half a year ago and finally decided to join. Here's my story
My Background
I come from a very little country in Eastern Europe. My family is not religious at all, but at the same time they have read about many religions and what they believe is a big mix of everything. So obviously when I was living with them, I used to have quite same opinions about religions as they do. My understanding was that id does not really matter what religion you follow, if you discard the traditions and some rituals and look at the main points in the religions then they all teach us the same thing.First experiences with Muslims
First time I talked to a Muslim was probably 8 or 9 years ago. I remember it was someone from Pakistan and straight away showed zero tolerance towards other religions. When I asked him about the purpose of talking to me, he was very honest and said that he wants to marry someone from Europe to get out of his country.. Well, I did not like his idea and did not write to him again. My opinion about Muslims at that time was that they are bunch of arrogant people with extremely closed mind.I moved out of my country to UK in 2001. I met another Muslim there. He made me more interested about Islam. Well, actually I fell in love with him, we tried to get married islamically, but as soon as the one who was trying to lead the ceremony, found out that I wasn't religious, he said it does not work this way. He said he can not marry me unless I become a Muslim. Or at least a Christian. That sounded weird, but I decided to read the Quran to find out what was Islam about. He gave me the Quran with instructions not to touch it while I have my periods. How strange, I thought.
This religion-man (some sort of Islamic theologian student) also tried to explain me about Islam. He was a cheerful guy, first impression about him was good, and the Islam he introduced was interesting. Up to a point where I asked something from him and got an answer, "I have a very good idea about it, but I intend to write a book about it and can't tell you until I have finished the book. I don't want anyone to steal my idea." Well I got pretty much disappointed and saw that for some people Islam is just something to make money with.
First experience with Quran
I started reading the Quran and I remember that it was not a pleasant experience at all. It was very scary(the verses about hell especially), repeated the same things again and again and again, seemed like a book designed for brainwashing the people. And it is written for the men (except few verses for the women). At the same time I did not find much that I would not agree with (well, the hell verses and some stories from the past were quite unbelievable, the angel parts also). So I decided that this religion was OK and I told him that I believe what is in the Quran. So he could consider me as a Muslim. He wanted me to go to mosque to make it official. I refused, as I could not understand how can a paper make or not make a person a Muslim. I told him that i do not need a paper to be a Muslim. We got married, I told everyone that I was a Muslim, but inside me I knew I wasn't. But I decided to carry on playing the game as I really liked my husband and I could totally accept his religion as it was. I thought it was really good that he did not drink or smoke (a big bonus, as I have always thought these two are very useless and bad habits).My thoughts about Islam then
I was convinced that if I want to understand Islam, it must come from the Koran. As all the other books written by the religious leaders can be misleading and give their opinions anyway. How do I know that their understanding is correct? As there is so many different schools and different sects, how do I know which one is the most correct. My husband was OK with that.
I could not understand about the headscarf - I could not find a place in the Koran about it (I had pretty good translation of the Koran - i still like it and read it- by Ahmed and Dina Zidan)Me and Islam
Couple of years later, after our daughter was born, he insisted again for me to go to the mosque to make my religion official. The reason was that he wanted our daughter to get also his nationality and their embassy needed a proof that I was a Muslim (how weird indeed). So we went to the mosque. I remember I seriously did not like the idea of the headscarf, but I had to cover my head. So I was wearing a hat inside the mosque (It was soooo hot there even though it was winter). We had to wait for a while until they found some witnesses. I was thinking then how can these people witness, what I really believe - all they can witness is what I say - but I understood already then that real belief is in our hearts. Then I had to say something in Arabic. As I did not understand Arabic then (now a bit more, but it's still not very good at all), I just repeated after the imam and was thinking at the same time how silly all this was (you know, Arabic, witnesses, signature on the paper that I am a Muslim now... ???). Well, my opinion about Islam did not go much better after that experience and I haven't gone to any mosque since. It was all so fake..First Muslim friends and leaving Islam
After a while I met some Muslims from my own country. I was happy at first - finally someone in the same boat. But then I found out, they were very strict. In fact extremely strict. A whole new world opened up for me. I found out about hadiths and sunna. I found out that my husband was also following sunna but in its mild form.(i did not know much about sects in Islam then)(Before I had just read the Quran and I did not pray, just fasted during Ramadan). They convinced me that praying is very necessary, that covering hair is a must, better if all the face + gloves+baggy clothes, that music is forbidden etc. I felt like a dark cloud came over me. Just in case I asked my husband to show me how to pray. He started covering me up. I felt like a clown. seriously. well, I never went out to the public in a headscarf, but I did cover myself for praying. It was hard to remember all this in Arabic and inside me I felt that it is useless to pray in a language that you do not understand - it wouldn't come from my heart anyway. I started to read hadiths and it was then I got really depressed (well staying home alone with a baby didn't help much either). After reading the ones that said something about women being mentally handicapped and disabled in the religion (well something like that.. it wasn't the exact way of expression, but that was kind of idea I got) and most of them would end up in the hell anyway, I decided, that Islam is the last religion to follow. Just full of rubbish, male orientated (add hadiths about wife's duties, including the ones that control even what is going on in the bed!! that woman can not refuse her husband,that she basically has to be like a slave for her husband, obeying him in everything and appreciate everything) silly religion, that does not make any sense. I am not kind of person, who can follow and believe something that does not make any sense and I just decided to end up fooling myself. Any other religion seemed to be more believeable than this. I stopped praying, quit Islam (well, didn't tell that to my husband though) and went on with my life.Thinking about Islam
I was still thinking about Islam a lot, but was again reading about different religions. And then I found something that stayed in my mind for a long time.. when someone in quite spiritual person said to a Muslim (i can not remember why), "firstly, study your own religion". I was constantly thinking about this - study your own religion. So I tried again with Islam - this time I was convinced that there has to be something more in this religion that I had seen. I asked God to show me the right way. The first time I really wanted to understand Islam and the first time I felt that I could follow it if it makes sense.I still occasionally talked to my Muslim friends from my own country, but got quite annoyed as they started to pressure me with "do you still pray?" and "when are you going to cover your hair?". (now I know that they are salafis ;D ;D ). I asked a question that bothered me still where in the Koran is mentioned about covering woman's head. Well, the answer was something like are you sure you are a Muslim? I asked again. I said that I could not find it there. They brought me a verse that had this order, but in the brackets. I asked about it, because I knew that these are translator's comments in the brackets, to make it more understandable. It does not exist in Arabic. They got really mad at my comments and said that it is part of the sunna anyway. I did not argue with them anymore about it. But I was even more convinced that there is something dodgy about headscarf jedi .
I still took it very easy about Islam and decided to start doing dawa some kind. Just talking to my friends (non Muslim) about it and ask their opinions etc. I was quite in between about believing and not believing in it, but as i did not read any more hadiths (i just got very angry or depressed every time reading them) I decided that if I want to follow Islam, then the only thing I can quite agree with is Koran. Even if it means following Islam only partially.
Back to Islam
And then one day something happened that I could not even dream about. I was searching something from the internet and found the submission.org site. After reading the articles about hadiths and Koran and seeing verses from the Koran that it is actually all we need, something clicked in me. I knew I had found what I was looking for. I read through most of the articles over there, and I really liked What I found. Suddenly I became suspicious. It was somehow too good to be true. And still something did not make sense. All this 19 stuff, where everything was proved through mathematics. It just didn't feel right. I started to search for criticism about submission.org and I found pretty convincing arguments against it - claim that Quran has been changed over the time. And removing couple of verses from the Book - that definitely wasn't right. I was convinced by then that everything Quran says must be true. (Even though I could still not believe absolutely everything in it). And there was a promise, that God will protect it. So I wasn't that excited anymore.I started looking for the similar sites about following Quran only and found a whole new world. I found quite a few other sites (including free-minds) and discovered more and more interesting articles. After reading an article "why are we here" (can't remember which site it was in) which was written according to Quran verses, something clicked in me. It was just what I needed. Suddenly everything made sense. I just believed everything in the Quran. It felt amazing. It was exactly as God says it's like a veil that covers your eyes and hearts and when it gets lifted up, you can see! I just couldn't believe that I had become religious. I started to read the Quran again. Wow, what an experience - nothing compared to the first time. It feels like God is talking to me through this book. It makes me happy - I do feel indeed that Quran is the light to guide us.
Then, just when I had finally truly become a Muslim (and not just by name), something interesting happened, just to make my beliefs even stronger. My Muslim friends friends, who did not share my excitement about discovering the Quran, tried first to convince me that all this sunna and hadeeth is very necessary. When I proved they were wrong (through e-mails, not face to face) by showing the verses and commandments from the Koran, they got really angry. After consulting their religious leaders they started to call me kafir and blamed me of doing fitna (what does it mean? I do not understand this word, but i guess nothing nice) and that I will end up in the hell. I asked them, how can I be kafir, if I believe God, Quran and the prophets. No answer to that one. No answer at all from them. It did not put me off - oh no! I am even more convinced now about Islam and more amazed about Quran - you can not explain things better than God has done in this Book. It is indeed perfect in every way!
Then I started to talk to my husband about it. He too got really angry. (I could understand him, as it challenged everything he has believed in all his life.) He saw from TV another "wise religious guy" talking about Koran only Muslims and after that ordered me not to visit these internet sites anymore, but just to read the Quran. Fair enough I thought. So I just read the Quran but came back to the internet in couple of weeks. I just did not care about his opinion. I decided it is my life and I live it according to the way I choose. And I told him that. After a while still seeing that I understand Islam differently, he just gave up on me. He said to me straight, that he does not want to change anything that he already believes, that he is happy to follow Islam the way all his family does and even if he does not understand why he does things in certain way, he is convinced it is the right way. At the same time he noticed that I started praying again and was happy for me. Thank God things have calmed down by now and he is not asking me to follow his way (in the beginning he kind of ordered me to do that saying that is the only correct way) and I am not trying to explain him my way.
I have understood it is up to everyone to follow what they want and how they want. It does not mean I have to agree with them - I still have my opinion and I still say it out, but don't really care if they do not like it or they choose not to believe it.
Islamic forums.. well, got banned from some of them That is quite funny to see, how they are scared of Muslims, who follow Quran Looks like this is the biggest threat for them. If everyone would follow only Quran, who would follow those religious leaders? Who would buy their books? How would they make their money? They would have to go and get a proper job -[
My family were not very excited when I told them that I am serious about Islam now. I had always considered them as open-minded people, but now I discovered that they too want me to follow what they follow..
Since I discovered Quran based Islam, I have found some strange peacefulness in my mind when I think about it. I still tend to forget sometimes, when I get carried away with this life (little kids - a real test for anyone), but when I remember, it helps a lot. Still an awful lot of work to do with myself, but at least I found the way to follow. The examples in the Quran, the signs God has set up for us just help to strengthen my belief and I hope God will always help me to stay on the straight path. I can now see sighs in everything and when I remember my past I can see how many signs God sent me already then. Why didn't I open my eyes then?
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peace zerda,
Welcome to the forum.
Most traditional Muslims have not read The Quran thus have very little idea about its content and message. That is why Quran based Islam feels foreign to them, hence reject it.
For study, check out this site
www.studyquran.org -
1618 "And if you count the blessings of God you will not be able to fathom them. God is Forgiving, Merciful."
There is so much hidden beauty in the Qur'an that we will always discover as we continue to read it, and it is sad that many Muslims do not read their own Qur'an or translations of it and cherish it, one and all. It should not be put away to Islamic scholars or mullahs or imams, but to every believer who submits to God!
We don't even need to have masjids, so as long as the heart is the temple of God Emself. )
When I first divulged myself in the Qur'an, I was upset at many of the verses that spoke about Hell, but when I looked beyond that, I saw verses that praised the beauty of Eir Creation, that everything was made by the word of God; Ey spoke the Word, and it existed! I saw verses of the beauty of Heaven, of the angels (Baha'is believe that people who exemplify wonderful and virtuous qualities are angels, even those who are deceased souls may be 'angels' who circle round Eir throne and proclaim that "there is none other God but Thee!".
I'm sure you will like this forum. I don't know much of Islamic principles, so you won't see me much, lol. But I am assured that God is certainly working in your life, and that Eir Truth will wholly pervade you in beauteous pearls of wisdom and love. )
Allah-u-Abha,
Kevyn. -
May I know what Eastern European country are you originally from Zerda?
If it is really small my guess is Lithuania, isnt it?
Anyway, welcome
nope, not lithuania, but pretty close. my country is even smaller Guess again!
Thanks to everyone for welcoming me to this forum.
Thank you, Wakas for the link. God Willing I'm going to check it out. The first impression was good. Seems to be a very useful site.
Peace for all,
sun
zerda -
Peace sister "Zerda"
Very nice article. But one thing disturbs me though. You wrote...Suddenly I became suspicious. It was somehow too good to be true. And still something did not make sense. All this 19 stuff, where everything was proved through mathematics. It just didn't feel right. I started to search for criticism about submission.org and I found pretty convincing arguments against it - claim that Quran has been changed over the time. And removing couple of verses from the Book - that definitely wasn't right. I was convinced by then that everything Quran says must be true. (Even though I could still not believe absolutely everything in it). And there was a promise, that God will protect it. So I wasn't that excited anymore.
JK- Mathematics is considered the purest form of scientific proof so i dont understand how this cannot be a proof in your sight? Feeling and emotions should not outweigh rationalism otherwise we get back to the other extreme. Regarding the Quran being changed if have also written articles on that. It's not the Quran whats been changed but you have to understand that the Quran is defined and resides inside mathematical boundaries. This means that the entire text is mathemtically composed and i must admit that whilst the verses and their numbering have now been almost fully proven by this code, individual words and letters still remain but they will be unravelled with time GOD Willingly. Now you say that GOD protected the Quran? Well how do you know that this very statement is from GOD and not from Satan? Right here comes the problem. In order for this statement to be true there needs to be a mechanism to show that the Quran is protected. Hence ppl did try to enter two verses to the Quran, namely 9128&129 but they didnt succeed. GOD exposed them as not belonging to the Quran by many outstanding mathemtical relations and they are ever increasing. People who make claims against code-19 in their haste tend to forget these simple logical points. I hope youll reconsider this. Moreover all versions of the Quran are NOT the same. There are many differnces btw Hafs and Warsh. Take a look for yourself
http//www.submission.org/quran/protect.html
http//www.submission.org/quran/warsh.html
GOD Bless! -
Peace sister "Zerda"
Very nice article. But one thing disturbs me though. You wrote
JK- Mathematics is considered the purest form of scientific proof so i dont understand how this cannot be a proof in your sight? Feeling and emotions should not outweigh rationalism otherwise we get back to the other extreme. Regarding the Quran being changed if have also written articles on that. It's not the Quran whats been changed but you have to understand that the Quran is defined and resides inside mathematical boundaries. This means that the entire text is mathemtically composed and i must admit that whilst the verses and their numbering have now been almost fully proven by this code, individual words and letters still remain but they will be unravelled with time GOD Willingly. Now you say that GOD protected the Quran? Well how do you know that this very statement is from GOD and not from Satan? Right here comes the problem. In order for this statement to be true there needs to be a mechanism to show that the Quran is protected. Hence ppl did try to enter two verses to the Quran, namely 9128&129 but they didnt succeed. GOD exposed them as not belonging to the Quran by many outstanding mathemtical relations and they are ever increasing. People who make claims against code-19 in their haste tend to forget these simple logical points. I hope youll reconsider this. Moreover all versions of the Quran are NOT the same. There are many differnces btw Hafs and Warsh. Take a look for yourself
http//www.submission.org/quran/protect.html
http//www.submission.org/quran/warsh.html
GOD Bless!I think I did not explain myself very clearly (the whole thing already came extremely long), so I explain what I mean. Be as it is with those verses in the end of sura 9. Believe as you believe, no problem.
What I thought about mathemathics - I am not going to say thare is no mathematical system in that Book. I noticed that there is. But I also noticed that after discovering this mathemathical compositon, some people got a bit carried away with it, trying to prove everything with it. What disturbed me in that site was explanations about praying (proof through mathematics).
For example their articles about proving the number of raka's for each prayer. Where in the qur'an is mentioned that every prayer has 2 or 4 or 3 raka's in the first place? Where do they take stuff like this? Please, bring out the verses, if you know any. I could not find! And to say that salat is preserved already from Abraham's time - in this case Quran ONLY is not enough, you still have to rely on human beings to teach you how to do it. That did not make any sense to me.
And differences between hafs and warsh.. well I have heard about that as well but I think the differences are only minor and do not really distort the message itself.
well, anyway, it's just my personal understanding and belief. It's normal for the people to have different understandings for the same thing - one day, God willing, we will all find out, but until that day the most important thing is to remember God and do good. peace
peace
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Peace sister "Zerda",
You raised some excllent points and ill definitely reply to them below.What I thought about mathemathics - I am not going to say thare is no mathematical system in that Book. I noticed that there is. But I also noticed that after discovering this mathemathical compositon, some people got a bit carried away with it, trying to prove everything with it. What disturbed me in that site was explanations about praying (proof through mathematics).
For example their articles about proving the number of raka's for each prayer. Where in the qur'an is mentioned that every prayer has 2 or 4 or 3 raka's in the first place? Where do they take stuff like this? Please, bring out the verses, if you know any. I could not find! And to say that salat is preserved already from Abraham's time - in this case Quran ONLY is not enough, you still have to rely on human beings to teach you how to do it. That did not make any sense to me.JK- I have to agree with you here although i once too though the mathematical code "integrated" into the five daily prayers rather fascinating but after a critical analysis with another brother we found out that the combinations were more or less possible with other five digit nos as well, thus falsifying the uniqueness. So yes as this happened and we as humans hae to go with what or current scientific knowledge supports. In that case GOD wont punish us even if it maybe proved wrong later. We did what we had to, using rational though and in the long run this approach has been shown to be successful. Personally i still pray in the traditional method until we can reach consensus of how "salat" is to be actually performed according to the Quran. Like i said wer in the progress.
And differences between hafs and warsh.. well I have heard about that as well but I think the differences are only minor and do not really distort the message itself.
JK- The message itself aint even distorted by 9128&129. Moreover this is not a good excuse since when GOD says that He protected the Quran and no falsehood can come at it, then even such minor diferences would violate this statement.
well, anyway, it's just my personal understanding and belief. It's normal for the people to have different understandings for the same thing - one day, God willing, we will all find out, but until that day the most important thing is to remember God and do good. peace D
peaceJK- I absolutely agree. GOD Bless!
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Peace Zerda,
Welcome to islam and the forum welcome and thank you for sharing your interesting story.
The God has promised to protect THE MESSAGE.
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (al-zikr), and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
Whereas the 10 different versions of al-qur'aan (the great reading) have minor differences in some vowels or some letters, the basic message is the same and has indeed been preserved. "The reading" (qur'aan) might have minor differences, but "the message/reminder" (al-zikr) is the same. For further information please see the article at the following link
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
For more information on the 19 theory and a debate that was held on this forum about it, please see the following links
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/ayman19.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/debate19.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9721.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10068.0
May The God guide us all to the truth and the straight path.
Peace
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Peace bro "tanveer",
If there is no code in the Quran protecting the text, we might as well forget about it. Ive asked Ayman and the likes of him many times why theyd believe in the Quran and all i hear is because of the style and how it's written. This cannot be considered proof especially not in this era. Moreover how can anyone with commonsense claim tht such a message is protected and preserved. Tell me bro Tanveer, if you dont believe in code-19 HOW in GOD's name can you say that the Quran or it's message has been protected and preserved? Any religion can claim that its scripture is preserved. The question is "Wheres the beef"? We cannot be on one hand spending day after day rationally interpreting the Quran and on the other outright denying the only thing in todays era which proves its protection i.e. code-19. Honestly to me that is just as ironic as the Sunni/Shia folk claiming the Bible to be wrong yet following every nonsensical OT commandment which aint in Quran. GOD Bless! -
Peace bro Khizar,
The answer is staring in the face in the verse 4153 quoted in your signature !!
This issue has been discussed/debated many times on this forum in other threads and this thread is not appropriate for discussing this. As sis Zerda has rightly remarked that everyone is entitled to their own understandings and the most important thing is belief in The God and the Last Day and doing good deeds.
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Oh yeah, fudge Im good lol.
Anyway, the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear countries like Estonia and Latvia is lifeless people in thick fur coat walking in endless world of snow. Is that true? (Im sure it is not lol)lifeless people.. I'd like to see you in the temp -30C.. how much alive would you look ;D in the winter, especially in extreme cold (-20 and over), the best thing to do is to put your fur coat on and go. As quick as possible, better to use shortcuts, until you reach your destination. But even better to stay home. Roughly from November until March is the winter.
Spring is lovely (April-May). Lots of fresh air, the nature just wakes up from the winter, it is a special season. Makes you wonder about everything. The weather is quite sneaky (I don't know if you can say that about weather, but I'll explain). You think it's warm. You feel like wearing a t-shirt.. But the ground is still a bit icy. So in the shade it is quite cold. Very easy to catch cold.
Summers are nice and warm - +20C...+30C is normal temperature. So you can swim outdoors
I love the weather there as it varies a lot and just when you get bored of it, it changes. -
Peace bro "tanveer",
Peace bro Khizar,
The answer is staring in the face in the verse 4153 quoted in your signature !!
JK- 4153 does NOT BY ITSELF prove the Quran is from GOD by any means. It is because that very statement lies in between the mathematical bounds containing the Quran that it can be considered with high probability as being correct. GOD Bless!
This issue has been discussed/debated many times on this forum in other threads and this thread is not appropriate for discussing this. As sis Zerda has rightly remarked that everyone is entitled to their own understandings and the most important thing is belief in The God and the Last Day and doing good deeds.
JK- If it's just about believing in GOD then as i said why bother about the Quran. This forum mainly argues that the Quran is GOD's Word and ought to be taken as guidance. But to be so there must be something special abt it and you havnt told me what that should be in your opinion. GOD Bless!
