Relationships
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Peace jankren, all,
Im wondering why does boyfriend-girlfriend relationship has to involve sleeping together? In my country Indonesia many people date for almost 10 years without ever having sex before getting married. I believe people should indeed date for quite a long time first in order to get to know each other before committing to get married but why does it have to involve sex?
I agree. I would like to share some of my personal experiences on this issue with the readers; perhaps these experiences can benefit others !
My parents were engaged for a few years before getting married and they never had pre-marital sex, and they have been happily married for 42 years now. My sisters were engaged for some time before marriage and they never had pre-marital sex and they are happily married. Majority of the people in my country still do not engage in pre-marital sex and the rates of STD's and unwanted pregnancy are much lower than in the "developed" countries.
I agree that because of the western influences the trends are changing in my country also and more people are now engaging in pre-marital sex with the resultant increase in STD's and unwanted pregnancies.
I have been in USA for 15 years now and have been exposed to all those influences but I controlled myself and have been patient, even though sometimes it drives me up the wall ! I have dated a few girls and even though I had ample opportunity to engage in consensual sex, I controlled myself and refused and thank God that I did, because it did not work out on a mental and spiritual level and I would have regretted later on. Also I found later on that a couple of them had STD's and I would have most likely gotten burned ! Not to mention the fact they were dishonest to me about this fact, and they conveniently ignored to tell me while we were dating !
As for those who say that condoms are protective, there is a failure rate even with condoms and it is like playing russian roulette ! Condoms are NOT protective against some STD's like Herpes and HPV (human papilloma virus - causes genital warts and cervical cancer).
The way I am going right now, it appears I might die without having sex, but I will definitely not regret my decision if that happens, because for me abstaining from the forbidden is more important than falling a prey to my "hawa"/ego/desires, thereby failing the test. The one important thing that differentiates humans from animals is that animals do not have control over their desires !
Sex generates very powerful emotions and blinds the involved parties into thinking they are in love, whereas they are just in lust/infatuation and do not really have a mental and spiritual connection to hold them together, and when the novelty of the sex wears out (which is inevitable), there is nothing to hold them together, thus a very high break up rate; not to mention the high incidence of STD's and unwanted pregnancies and the amount of abuse that goes on in these relationships (and they think they are in love !). I have witnessed empiric verification of this in real life situations involving people that I know.
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Peace raztec, all,
Because I think sexual compatibility is a very important part of a relationship and it's better to find that out before marriage
This "theory" has many flaws. One might be very compatible sexually, but when the novelty wears off (which is inevitable), usually there is nothing to hold them together because of the USUAL lack of mental and spiritual compatibility, plus there is dissatisfaction anyway because sex with the same person is not as good or frequent as it used to be.
Humans are not like "shoes" that you have to wear them and try them out before you buy them ! (The analogy is crude so hope no one jumps on me about the "buying" part).
Pre-marital sex does encourage multiple sexual partners before marriage because there is no guarantee it will work out with the first person one has sex with. Because of that, it results in a higher incidence of STD's and unwanted pregnancies, and one has to weigh that against the illusion of finding sexual compatibility before marriage.
Another crude analogy is that of a car. If one has never driven a car in one's life, one will be happy even with a 1980 Ford, but once one has driven a Ferrari, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, BMW, Lamborghini etc., one is not happy even with a brand new Nissan Sentra ! (Hope no one jumps on me for comparing humans with cars; as I said, it is a crude analogy).
When one has had quite a few sexual relationships, one gets used to a wide variety of sexual stimuli and variations, and one cannot then find all that in a single partner, and thus expectations get so high that it becomes impossible to find the sexual satisfaction one has gotten used to, and thus the sexual compatibility "theory" backfires !
The above is not just a ranting of an ignoramus; I have seen empirical proof of all of the above in real life situations, also due to the nature of my profession.
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I listen to my heart and my mind, how is that going with the flow?
How isn?t it?
People can be eroused and motivated soley by lust whether in wed lock or outside of wed lock I don't see the relevance of this question. You can feel alot of things, whats of greater importance is the choices you make. You could feel like killing someone, yet you don't have to choose to go out and kill someone.
What I meant by my question is that you could easily fall into sex out of lust not love and maybe think it is out of love and it can distort your reasoning for sex before marriage.
And how do you become aware of what God ordered?
Read the Quran
Really? It examplifies connection in the most literal manner, isn't that what we are trying to do in our relationship with God; connect?
What I am saying is you don?t connect to God via sex.
Thats a generalisation. Sex can be used that way, but that is not the only way to utilize it.
It?s not a generalization besides I said people not all people. And if you don?t have sex to be satisfied or get satisfaction then why would you do it if you don?t gain satisfaction?
You never said sex = love. Though you play its importance so high in a relationship, so it?s somewhat indirectly said.
What other ways are there to interact besides physically? I?m sure there isn?t any other way (in a mothers womb)
Anyway this will be a never ending story, we obviously have different perceptions. So let it be.
Take care, Asalamu alaikum. )
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Peace All
wow bro Tanveer you rock!
to hear that coming from a guy is so refreshing ... in fact i never heard it before (
sad for all those who never were able to say your words but amazing for you!
insha-Allah you'll make one lucky lady enormously happy with your past choices.
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Peace Tanveer, all,
I agree with you 100%. Very-well stated. I would only add that "sexual compatibilty" should be of no concern whatsoever. Guys are easy to please. Women, on the other hand, require complete security, freedom, and most importantly, communication. Once a woman is capable of expressing what she wants, then voila instant compatibility.
On relationships, I also agree that dating for as long as possible is better than jumping into marriage because, as you said, a spiritual and psychological bond must be made. People fail to recognize that their spouse will be their best friend. We don't make best friends overnight. It takes work and trust and fighting through thick and thin together to reach that state.
Peace,
Tay -
Tanveer I just read your personal experiences (sorry for the delay, my focus was mainly on replying to khalil's posts), mashallah good for you! You have strong faith if only more were like you, lots fall for temptation. Anyway it's never to old to get married or find someone, inshallah God blesses you with a partner soon who makes your heart and mind content
The final step is the consummation of marriage. A date for the consummation of marriage must be set prior to getting married. The predetermined date can be anytime after the marriage (step 2) above.
Anyway I was reading this.. you kinda lost me. A date for consummation for marriage must be set??? as in intercourse date needs to be set before marriage? or I have it all wrong?
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Peace Sarah,
I listen to my heart and my mind, how is that going with the flow?
How isn?t it?
I like you am still on the path of learning. Of what I learn I sort and take out the best from it, and to find that I use my heart and mind. Sometimes I get off track but my heart eventually alerts me when I do.
I do not see it as going with the flow because I have my feet planted in something I am willing to stand for, so the wind blown my way by the people who act like wolves will not push me in a million directions forever, and in the past it has quite often, caused me to stumble but eventually I return again.
What I meant by my question is that you could easily fall into sex out of lust not love and maybe think it is out of love and it can distort your reasoning for sex before marriage.
You can, then work on learning to differentiate between love and lust, and if you are not sure and not comfortable then choose to not have sex until you are A. sure and B. comfortable
Read the Quran
People before scripture would not have had this choice, yet they still had methods of becoming aware of God. In the Quran, it talks all about Gods creation and observing it, that can always be done.
What I am saying is you don?t connect to God via sex.
I think you are capable of connecting with God through sex, but it is not the only method to connect with God.
It?s not a generalization besides I said people not all people. And if you don?t have sex to be satisfied or get satisfaction then why would you do it if you don?t gain satisfaction?
I never said that, I said not all people use sex for soley selfish motivations. It is not selfish if you gain pleasure out of an action, it is selfish if that pleasure is gained without consideration of the other (s) involved. I think we grow the most beautifully when we have pleasure involved in what we do, I love doing art and I love researching and so I excel at those because of the pleasure. Pleasure is not good or bad, the choices you make to derive pleasure will determine weather it is of benefit or not.
You never said sex = love. Though you play its importance so high in a relationship, so it?s somewhat indirectly said.
I did not. All I stated was that I am for sex inside or outside of marriage and that it is a beautiful method to express your love to eachother, and it is surely not the only method to express how you feel to your partner.
What other ways are there to interact besides physically? I?m sure there isn?t any other way (in a mothers womb)
Thats my point. That the feeling side is developed at birth, 9 months before any of our other senses.
Anyway this will be a never ending story, we obviously have different perceptions. So let it be.
I enjoyed our conversation and sorry Tanveer I feel I responded harshly to you a few posts back and even though we differ in opinions and beliefs I would rather work together towards a common goal than side tracking my energies.
I wish the best to you both.
peace,
Khalil -
Peace Bro
you do know that sex outside of marriage would be considered zina and is a gross sin right?
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alrite then peace
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peace
khalil can you elaborate how one gets close to God with sex?
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Peace all,
Thank you Boost, Sarah, Lilyfleur, Tay, Jankren, and Khalil for the kind words.
Sis Lilyfleur,
No problem; it is obvious that it was an honest misunderstanding. We all are humans and not perfect and bound to make mistakes sometimes. Keep up the good work and may The God bless you !
Bro Tay,
I agree with your words of wisdom ! If only everyone can keep that in mind, there won't be any unhappy or broken marriages any more !
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Peace Sarah,
The final step is the consummation of marriage. A date for the consummation of marriage must be set prior to getting married. The predetermined date can be anytime after the marriage (step 2) above.
Anyway I was reading this.. you kinda lost me. A date for consummation for marriage must be set??? as in intercourse date needs to be set before marriage? or I have it all wrong?
I quoted the article by brother Ayman and I think he has it slightly wrong. 2235 is in the context of widows and talks about not consummating the marriage until the required interim only in case of widows and not for general marriage.
2234 And for those of you whose lives are terminated and they leave widows behind, then their widows will have a required interim period of four months and ten days. So when they reach their required interim, then there is no sin upon you for what they do to themselves equitably. And God is Expert to what you do.
2235 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say. And do not consummate the marriage until the required interim is reached in the Scripture. And know that God knows what is in your souls, so be aware of Him, and know that God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
For example if a woman has become recently widowed, then I think one can marry (nakah) her immediately, but one cannot consummate the marriage until four months and 10 days after the death of her previous husband, to ensure she is not pregnant by her previous husband. Only in the case of widows should a date be set for the consummation of marriage prior to getting married.
As per 3349, 2236, and 2237, it seems that one can get married and not consummate the marriage immediately and it is left up to the married couple to decide between themselves when to consummate the marriage.
For everyone's info, I found a verse which I think implies that 2 witnesses are required for marriage or divorce
652 Then, once the interim is fulfilled, either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably and have it witnessed by two just people from among you; and give the testimony for God. This is to enlighten those who believe in God and the Last Day. And whosoever reverences God, He will create a solution for him.
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peace
khalil can you elaborate how one gets close to God with sex?
Sure. In sex you have the oppurtunity to express/give to another care, love, nurturing, comfort, joy, passion, acceptance, understanding, warmth, tenderness, affection and an allowance and embrace of who that person is for whom they are.
How you interact with God is by interacting with Gods creation, which includes yourself and all that surrounds you, see, God is unseen but aspects of God are revealed in that which is seen. By pouring love onto Gods creation you have then reached out and touched God, and so that is how you may move closer to God through sex.
peace,
Khalil -
I think maybe that one brother of ours is some kind of saint who has incredibly strong self-control which enables him to constantly think about God while having sex with his girlfriend.
lol. I dont have a girlfriend, I have school and work! If I had a girlfriend I most certainly would not be online! P Maybe next year I'll find a girlfriend, right now I am practically isolated.
Could you clarify what you mean by thinking of God when you have sex? Do you mean mentally, or feeling a warmth in your heart??
peace,
Khalil