Relationships
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Peace Bro KHalil
oh that makes sense, i agree with that. i read Bro Jankren's post too i don't know why i had a disconnect hehehe
ignore the divorce post then ;D
although i do believe marriage is more than just an oath to each other. you could have an oath of a commitment to that one person and still not fulfill marriage responsibilities, like financial stuff or not even living with each other or having sexual relations. I think all of that is what separates a bf/gf relationship and a marriage.
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TANVEER, You said, "According to Lane Lexicon, "zina" can mean "to mount/mounting upon a thing/fornication/adultery". In my opinion, that would include both anal and regular sexual intercourse. I am not sure if it would include oral sex. Oral sex, however, is still "fahisha"/lewdness which is also forbidden, and The God orders us not to come near "fahisha" also."
Where in the Koran does it say that oral sex is forbidden?
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Khalil
LoL your post is quite funny, well it made me laugh
To you sex outside marriage isn?t detrimental, but that?s with your human logic, I believe it can be detrimental.
I believe it is a rule that is concrete.
I?m aware that a virus disease or whatever needs to survive in its host before it can move to others, though it is all possible. And not all people are mindful of their health and not all people are aware.
People can judge on truth, where is the wrong in that? Societies perspective of marriage as far as I know lots of people dread marriage because they think it?s a trap so generalizing it's societies perspective I wouldn?t entirely agree
Having babies is a blessing from God, you get pleasure out of sex also. You get pleasure out of a lot of other things also. Besides how is it turning your back away from God?s gifts? It?s rather using God?s gift appropriately and wisely. Not for the sack of your desires and wants. What?s the purpose of life, In your perspective?
People trust people doesn?t mean they won't do injustice.
I believe God tells us to stay away from some acts not ?someone?. And anyway you can look at what someone says and reason with it, and you follow the best of it. Your heart uha yeh your heart desires and wants a lot.. you should follow it but take your brain with you. if your heart hates someone so much that would make you want to kill them would you? or would you use your brain and say that wouldn't be right?
What is islam? Do you believe following the Quran is part of islam? If not why not? also if so then if it doesn?t promote fornication could it mean it isn?t as good as you think it is?
Just because you are in a peaceful state it doesn?t mean it is good. People are in a peaceful state when they drink alcohol does that mean its good and you should gain pleasure from drinking it? I beleive that state is rather weak, than peaceful.
I choose to marry for many reasons, as I said ?marriage is more than sex?. So no it doesn?t mean I am fearful of lack of sex. Why should I be? If I really wanted I could go to the extreme and go to a brothel and get paid sex, heck I could even be a sex worker but that?s just stooping lower than low. Its not a primary motivation, why would you or anyone ever ever get married if you see no benefit in it?
You marry a person for numerous reasons, love is one and you wouldn?t want to share pleasure of sex with others that you don?t love in my opinion because that just selfishness and just following your desires and being a submitter to that.
Why would Quran mention or even promote marriage if it's SOOOOO bad? What's so bad about marriage? Do you think marriage is just saying I do and signing paper?
off course you choose freely, it doesn?t mean you don?t receive the consequences, you do in this life or in the hereafter.
Tell me how does having sex with people make your life blossom?
Taking a body and then avoiding all experiences of earth life?? lol guess what!? there is a billion things to experience I bet you haven't even experience half.
And pleasure doesn?t start and halt on sex. And the guidance lets us blossom in pleasure in the most just and appropriate ways )
lilyfleur not everything is black and white do you need the verse to say "oral sex is haram" to accept it? Maybe Tanveer can elaborate abit, do you think such acts would be ok with someone who is married, who has the rights to touch their partner in such ways?
oral sex comes under fahisha.. so what verses relate to fahisha?
3135
check the ones tanveer mentioned I have to leave sorry, asalamu alaikum
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Salam,
Though in your own words, can you tell me why you believe sex outside of marriage to be different than sex in side of marriage?
peace,
KhalilWell I guess it's more that the high risk of having illness is when u change partner too often, and if you are unmarried it's likely to happen more often.
That's how I see it!!!
But I trust Al-Quran and believe that hold on to a spouse in nikah is the best way to build a strong bond and create a healthy family.
Peace sis Majidah
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"lilyfleur not everything is black and white do you need the verse to say "oral sex is haram" to accept it?"
YES, YES I DO. I DON'T THINK THAT GOD WANTS US TAKING OUR OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS AND ATTRIBUTING THEM TO HIS WORDS. I UNDERSTAND THAT GOD MADE THE KORAN EASY TO UNDERSTAND, NOT A BOOK TO REQUIRE DECIPHERING."Maybe Tanveer can elaborate abit, do you think such acts would be ok with someone who is married, who has the rights to touch their partner in such ways?"
WHO IS TANVEER TO MAKE THIS CALL, THINK FOR YOURSELF."oral sex comes under fahisha"
SAYS WHO? YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE YOUR PERSONAL SEXUAL HANGUPS AND ATTRIBUTE THEM TO GOD'S WORDS. -
PEace Sis Lillyfluer
I think bro Tanveer was talking about oral sex being fahisha, he was talking about it outside of marriage ... bro Tanveer, put me in my place if i'm wrong D
Oral sex outside of marriage is obviously a fahisha
Inside the realm of marriage i don't think any kind of sexual act is haram, as long as it remains between the married couple.
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Peace sis "BOOST",
Inside the realm of marriage i don't think any kind of sexual act is haram, as long as it remains between the married couple.
JK- except for anal sex and by that i mean anal penetration because it would make no sense that GOD so strongly condemns homosexuality of males(lesbianism has not been condemned by GOD directly in the Quran), where the penetration part is the real issue which causes all those diseases mostly related with the human immune system, whilst on the other hand it should be fine to indulge in such durting marriage. The woman's internal anus is no more clean/sterile to my knowledge than that of a man in case such argument should arise. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro Johnny k
hmm i never heard of a disease caused by anal sex. plz let me know if you know of any.
i think homosexuality is made haram because it is perverted from the normal relations we should be having. Who said lesbianism is ok? homosexuality encompasses both male/male and female/female relationships.
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Peace sis "BOOST",
Peace bro Johnny k
hmm i never heard of a disease caused by anal sex. plz let me know if you know of any.
JK- Statistics have shown that homosexuality has indeed been the cause of many diseases including the spread of aids. By anal sex you have a much hgher chance of acquiring those plus the intestine has germs,e-coli, which are harmful if theyr passed into the blood stream and this can easily happen through friction.
i think homosexuality is made haram because it is perverted from the normal relations we should be having. Who said lesbianism is ok? homosexuality encompasses both male/male and female/female relationships.
JK- Yes i agree there are other factors but perversion and morality can not be the main issue since GOD wouldnt blow down and completely destroy Lot's people just becaue they were immoral. Makes no sense seeing also that Shuaibs ppl got a similar harsh punihsment coz those ppl did not weigh justly, just like many general stores are doing today by putting a tiny note(coz theyr forced by law) kilo/gram and actually the big bottle which is supposed to be cheaper per unit gram is more expensive. These cases came out recently in Germany. Its a trick because everyone now believes that if you buy more quantity youll have to pay less/unit. Thus we see that hs has to be violating human rights somehow. It has to be harmful for humanity and it is. Lesbianism is NOT condemned directly in the Quran and GOD never destroyed a lesbian society in the past so it must be a lesser if at all a crime against humanity. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro
brother, lesbianism is not haram!? think about what you're saying
AIDS is prevalent in the homosexual community because (and this is statistically proven) they have many many sexual partners ... far more than the average heterosexual person.
AIDS can just as easily be transmitted vaginally as well.
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Peace sis "BOOST",
Peace bro
brother, lesbianism is not haram!? think about what you're saying
JK- Yes 236 makes it clear that sex is only permitted with ones spouse and i believe this applies to both male and female so lesbianism is forbidden BUT it is not condemned as strongly as male homosexuality and i believe that is so because penile penetrations allow for much more diseases to spread then lesbian acts would.
AIDS is prevalent in the homosexual community because (and this is statistically proven) they have many many sexual partners ... far more than the average heterosexual person.
AIDS can just as easily be transmitted vaginally as well.
JK- Yes tht and because of penile penetration otherwise one could make the excus and say ok lets get married and fix ourselves to one male partner as a man which indeed gays are doing by claiming gay rights to marriage. So this cant be the only reason. This topic has been hotly debated on the forum.
GOD Bless! -
Peace Bro Johnny
JK- Yes tht and because of penile penetration otherwise one could make the excus and say ok lets get married and fix ourselves to one male partner as a man which indeed gays are doing by claiming gay rights to marriage. So this cant be the only reason. This topic has been hotly debated on the forum
i think you're mixing issues here. homosexuality is haram whether there is AIDS or not. so there is no excuse made for gays to get married. However, AIDS can't be the reason why anal sex would be forbidden in a male/female marriage. HIV is sexually transmitted, thru semen or blood - has nothing to do specifically with the anus. by that rationale, vaginal penetration should be haram too because it can cause a whole slue of STDs.
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Peace sis "BOOST",
I wasnt talking abt AIDS only. It aint the only prob with male HS. I was talking abt intestinal germs which can cause harm if they enter the blood stream. Please read my post carefully. 2ndly haram is not black and white. There are things which GOD condemned more strongly like shirk and others on a lesser level. GOD Bless! -
Peace all,
Guys and gals, lets get some facts straight before any further debates !
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There is no scientific evidence of existence of HIV o HIV, even if it exists (for which there is no scientific evidence), is most likely a harmless virus.
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There is no scientific evidence that HIV is the cause of AIDS o AIDS is not a "disease" but a "syndrome" due to multiple diseases. The cause of the syndrome called AIDS has been postulated to be weakening of the immune system due to combination of stress, multiple STD's, multiple sexual partners and multiple drug abuse.
Please see the following link for more info and try to study all the articles in that website in detail before jumping on me )
http//www.virusmyth.net/aids/
Also see the following video
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-266890172132861595&q=other+side+of+aids
- Transmission of STD's (including hepatitis, which everyone forgets), is higher to the recipient of penetration in anal sex than vaginal sex, because anal mucosa has simple columnar epithelium (single layer of columnar cells, which are more susceptible to breakdown) and vaginal mucosa has stratified squamous epithelium (multiple layers of squamous cells which makes vaginal wall more resistant to breakdown).
Bro Khizar,
Lesbianism is NOT condemned directly in the Quran
415 And those women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
There are things which GOD condemned more strongly like shirk and others on a lesser level.
Agreed
5332 They avoid major sins and lewdness, except for minor offences. Your Lord is with vast forgiveness. He has been fully aware of you since He initiated you from the Earth, and while you were embryos in your mothers' wombs. Therefore, do not acclaim yourselves; He is fully aware of the righteous.
431 If you avoid the major sins that you are forbidden against, then We will cancel your existing sins and admit you to a generous entrance.
Sis Boost,
I think bro Tanveer was talking about oral sex being fahisha, he was talking about it outside of marriage ... bro Tanveer, put me in my place if i'm wrong D
Oral sex outside of marriage is obviously a fahisha
Inside the realm of marriage i don't think any kind of sexual act is haram, as long as it remains between the married couple.
Thank you for clarifying what I meant; I should have been more careful with the wording !!
The close examination of all the lawful sex verses seems to indicate that what you are saying may be right, especially when one researches the words "lamas" and "mas" used for lawful sexual contacts between married couples in al-qur'aan, meaning "touch/feel" (2236, 2237, 443, 583, 584). Thus it seems that it is left up to the married couple to decide what kind of "mas" or "lamas" they are comfortable with.
By the way, I have no right to put anyone in his/her place D
Sis lilyfleur,
WHO IS TANVEER TO MAKE THIS CALL
I am already in love with this attitude ) but you don't have to shout )
I think you misunderstood why sis Sarah said that. She said it because you had asked me a question (obviously based on a misunderstanding of my post due to the unclear wording) and she answered it. From what I have seen so far, Sarah thinks for herself quite well !
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peace
I apologize for "shouting". I've yet to meet many non-judgmental Muslims and find it increasingly frustrating. My Christian Grandmother used to say "ye without sin shall cast the first stone". Is there a Muslim saying that is similar in nature? I count myself lucky I guess that I was raised by Christians and taught so much about Jesus and love and forgiveness. And although it was the intelligence of the Koran that led me to Islam (@ 2 yrs ago), sometimes the constant splitting of atoms gives me a headache. And the condoning. I once was invited to a Muslim woman's home for a dinner with all Muslim women. I had been really sad and so looked forward to being in the company of these "wise" women. But instead of being made to feel welcomed there was a woman there who couldn't help from pointing out that I was wearing toe nail polish and how that "was not ok". Relax people, there are child molestors, rapists, murderers, starving people and more, waaay more important things to worry about. Guess it just disappointed me that here too, more serious issues aren't being addressed. I didn't mean to be so harsh.
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Peace lilyfleur,
Welcome to the forum welcome group
I apologize for forgetting my manners too. I should have welcomed you earlier, but better late than never !
Thank you for sharing some of your experiences. It would be an honor for us if you share your full story of how you found the true islam, in "how you came to God alone" thread, so others can benefit from it.
May The God guide us all to the straight path.
Regards and best wishes,
Tanveer
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As an Asian who still embraces Eastern culture I think sex outside marriage which could HELP to spread STD and lead to higher rate of teen pregnancy is not a trivial issue that can be equated with polished toe nails . But I will of course try to avoid being judgmental because I realize that we belong to different culture which mean we also have different views of things .
Speaking of Jesus's quote "ye without sin shall cast the first stone", I do not really quite understand. My guess is that he is speaking about hypocrisy. However is that mean for example that a father who used to be a crack addict has no right to tell his son not to do the same thing?
As for serious issues are not being addressed here, well you should explore the forum more often sis. The topics here always change quickly.
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Peace lilyfleur,
Guess it just disappointed me that here too, more serious issues aren't being addressed.
I guess jankren beat me to it, but feel free to use the search function. You will find that many serious issues have been extensively discussed in this forum.
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I agree partially with Lilyfluer
The amount of moralizing that we muslims seem to do with respect to pre-marital sex amazes me.
You have to understand the reason for its prohibition in the Quran in the first place. These had to do with
- STDs
- Unwanted pregnancies
- Responsiblity in caring for the children
All of these things can be mitigated through correct application of laws within society and by responsible behaviour as adults.
I think the key admonish in the Quran is against engaging in relationships with women in secret. I don't think there is anything wrong with a boyfriend and girlfriend type of relationships even if there is sexual intercourse. As long as it's open and acknowledged by ones family and friends and the consequences of pregnancy are borne by the responsible individuals, I'm not sure it's haram. "Those to whom you rightfully belong" can be interpreted as those to whom you've committed and they to you.
I come from a family where my parents had an arranged marriage and after 45 years it's painfully obvious that had they even gotten to know eachother for a year or so before hand they probably would've never gotten married. And even now they should be divorced but our culture doesn't permit it.
Prohibitions against pre-marital intercourse are primarily cultural, historic, and socio-biologically based. They have nothing to do with God or spirituality.
My .02
Raz