Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

Captain_Awesome

Since reasonable time has been passed, and No opposing comment was posted, therefore i take it for granted that we all agree that Allah has blessed some messangers more than others and has raised the ranks of some more than others.

And who are you to decide who Allah has blessed more? The Quran clearly states that we are not to differentiate between prophets. They are all the same to us.

Raaajah

And who are you to decide who Allah has blessed more? The Quran clearly states that we are not to differentiate between prophets. They are all the same to us.

Awesome! it would have been better if you had read all the thread, and particularly the Ayats regarding the subject, before passing on your valuable comments!

Ayisha

That is good, that to understand a particular Ayat, if some difficulty arises, due to particles used therein, in determining their type and thus meanings, one should take recourse to other Aayat of Qur'aan or the context itself.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9.gif
so that you people may incline yourselves to believe in Allah and the Messenger of Him,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9a.gif
and so that you people may protectively shield him with dignity and revere him/the Messenger

Had the translators taken care to have first seen the perception and meanings infolded in the Root they might not have attributed the Pronoun to Allah.

Read this part of Ayat with 7157
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.157k.gif
Therefore/for reason those who accepted/believed in him and they revered him and helped him

which word there says 'rever' him?

I accept we are to honour, respect and support (when he was alive) Muhammed but not glorify or rever, it makes a total mockery of the many verses we are told to make no distinction and those that say he is only a messenger to deliver a message and those that warn what the christians did in giving Jesus divinity. Saying this means put Muhammed on some higher pedestal than other prophets ignores those verses and the warnings given.

Captain_Awesome

Awesome! it would have been better if you had read all the thread, and particularly the Ayats regarding the subject, before passing on your valuable comments!

You would look a lot less stupid if the post you just replied to would have contained some sort of argument or refutation. I asked you a simple question, and I do not intend to search through seven pages for something you can sum up in a couple of sentences.

Pro tip Drop the hostility. It makes you look insecure.

Peace.

Ayisha

You would look a lot less stupid if the post you just replied to would have contained some sort of argument or refutation. I asked you a simple question, and I do not intend to search through seven pages for something you can sum up in a couple of sentences.

Pro tip Drop the hostility. It makes you look insecure.

Peace.

Agreed

Raj
First we would like to consider what is the meaning of word "Muhammad" it is "the praised one" in Arabic.
now we move to Quranic verse 472

Yusuf Ali
But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.

to dismay of those who do not like Muhammad to be praised word "Muhammad" is used in this very verse.

Allah himself calls the Prophet in Quran by the name "Muhammad" which means "the Praised one". Allah ho Akbar!
his NAME was Muhammed BEFORE prophet hood, why would Allah call him anything else?

Raj
You quoted verse 2870 but this verse is about oneness of Allah and no one is raising the status of Prophet to be that of God.
What we are discussing is the due respect for the Prophet and Love for him.
But you ARE raising his status by adding him to call to prayer and to the prayer itself and praising him as you do Allah. No one is disputing love and respect for the prophets, for ALL prophets, just not to raise one higher than the rest.

Raj
So it is clear no one is making Muhammad an Idol; but
we can not take away the respect and Honor he deserves according to Quran, and again Quran says

Progressive Muslims"
Say "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your clan, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would fear if it declines, and homes which you find pleasing; if these are dearer to you than God and His messenger and striving in the cause of God, then wait until God brings His decision. God does not guide the wicked people

I am sorry but this is not my translation if sounds hard on those who do not think Muhammad as dear and criticise those who Love Muhammad and respect him.

His messenger can also mean ANY of them as Allah does not say 'Muhammed' specifically. In glorifying Muhammed to be more special and more deserving of love than others you ARE making an idol of him whether you think so or not.

Boost
Love for the Prophet, respect for the prophet is quite different from Shirk.
Do you love and respect them all equally?

Raj
Yes I have to because Quran says it, but than again Allah in Quran points out

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah and the Last of the Prophets; and Allah has full knowledge of all things. (3340)

He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
This does NOT make him higher and you are contradicting Allah and your first sentence, 'yes i HAVE to, BUT'

Mazhar

which word there says 'rever' him?

I accept we are to honour, respect and support (when he was alive) Muhammed but not glorify or rever, it makes a total mockery of the many verses we are told to make no distinction and those that say he is only a messenger to deliver a message and those that warn what the christians did in giving Jesus divinity. Saying this means put Muhammed on some higher pedestal than other prophets ignores those verses and the warnings given.

Put mouse on this Arabic word which is singular of the plural verb used in the verse, your dictionary will give you this meanings;

respect, venerate, revere.

Mazhar

For urdu readers

Ayisha

Put mouse on this Arabic word which is singular of the plural verb used in the verse, your dictionary will give you this meanings;

respect, venerate, revere.

ok, respect is different to venerate or revere

saints are venerated which raises them to a higher level akin to God.

1 to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
synonyms see revere

Origin
1615?25; < L venertus, ptp. of venerr to solicit the goodwill of (a god), worship, revere,

re?vere
1
?verb (used with object), -vered, -ver?ing.
to regard with respect tinged with awe;

Origin
1655?65; < L reverr, equiv. to re- re- + verr to stand in awe of, fear, feel reverence

This is why this can ONLY mean God.

Raaajah

Awesome

You would look a lot less stupid if the post you just replied to would have contained some sort of argument or refutation. I asked you a simple question, and I do not intend to search through seven pages for something you can sum up in a couple of sentences.

Pro tip Drop the hostility. It makes you look insecure.

Peace

In normal circumstanses your post doesnot need slightest attention, but as Ayisha has agreed to you, therefore let me respond it you once again,
You will find the question to your answer in this thread, how can you address such a lazy person, who doesnot bothers to read the thread and starts asking questions, which have already been answered in the thread.
It is not me, it is Allah who says, that some are blessed more than others.

And who are you to decide who Allah has blessed more

Raaajah

CaptainAwesome for your eyes only

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.

and if you want to know who is at the higher rank, read the thread please.

Ayisha

CaptainAwesome for your eyes only

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.

and if you want to know who is at the higher rank, read the thread please.

then based on that we should revere Moses more as God actually spoke to him or Jesus more as God gave him miracles. GOD may have blessed some WITH more things such as actually hearing God speak or being able to perform miracles by God's leave, but it is not saying that WE should because there are numerous verses telling you NOT to distinguish one from another. This is saying that GOD Himself gave some prophets more than others, not that we should raise one to a higher level than others. Being blessed with more FROM GOD does not make one higher, it just means that God gave some more 'blessings' in the form of miracles etc than others.

I have been 'blessed' with 3 kids does that mean I have been 'blessed' to a higher level than those with only 1 or 2? Should those with only 1 or 2 revere me for being 'blessed' with more kids?

To raise Muhammed to a higher level than other prophets is contradictory to those verses that tell you not to distinguish (this is God telling US, not God saying what HE did) one from another. Quran tells you they are all MEN like us, human like us, and warns of what the Christians did with Jesus who was also a man like them but they REVERED him above others and made him into GOD in the flesh.

Raaajah

To raise Muhammed to a higher level than other prophets is contradictory to those verses that tell you not to distinguish....

It only feels contradictory because you have not read the whole thread yet.
But as of know can you or AWESOME deny this word of Allah

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.

Allah Ho Akbar.

Ayisha

It only feels contradictory because you have not read the whole thread yet.
But as of know can you or AWESOME deny this word of Allah

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.

Allah Ho Akbar.

You didnt read the rest of my post then?

Ok lets revere Moses and Jesus as they are the ones this verse claims to revere according to you

Honestly, i thought I left Muhammed worshippers behind when I joined this site, its seems they are still alive and fighting while in the disguise of God Aloners

Raaajah

You didnt read the rest of my post then?
Ok lets revere Moses and Jesus as they are the ones this verse claims to revere according to you
Honestly, i thought I left Muhammed worshippers behind when I joined this site, its seems they are still alive and fighting while in the disguise of God Aloners

may Allah give them more courage and stability in their love for the Messenger, to whom Allah calls "Mercy for All"

You have not read the Ayat with open heart and mind, ash, but i read your post.

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit......

Some messengers are more blessed then others, thus your and other Quran aloners claim becomes void.
God spoke to one.. this may be leads us to Musa
And Jesus supported with profound Miracles
But still after mentioning of these two, it says some are raised to higher RANKS.

Who are these for that I told you to read the thread but you won't.

One is offcourse Muhammad is peace is upon him

al-Quran
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.

And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.

Allah Ho Akbar

Mazhar

ok, respect is different to venerate or revere

saints are venerated which raises them to a higher level akin to God.

1 to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
synonyms see revere

Origin
1615?25; < L venertus, ptp. of venerr to solicit the goodwill of (a god), worship, revere,

re?vere
1
?verb (used with object), -vered, -ver?ing.
to regard with respect tinged with awe;

Origin
1655?65; < L reverr, equiv. to re- re- + verr to stand in awe of, fear, feel reverence

This is why this can ONLY mean God.

re?vere
(past and past participle re?vered, present participle re?ver?ing, 3rd person present singular re?veres)
transitive verb
treat somebody with admiring respect to regard somebody with admiration and deep respect

Microsoft? Encarta? 2006. ? 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation.

That is good, that to understand a particular Ayat, if some difficulty arises, due to particles used therein, in determining their type and thus meanings, one should take recourse to other Aayat of Qur'aan or the context itself.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9.gif
so that you people may incline yourselves to believe in Allah and the Messenger of Him,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9a.gif
and so that you people may protectively shield him with dignity and revere him/the Messenger

Had the translators taken care to have first seen the perception and meanings infolded in the Root they might not have attributed the Pronoun to Allah.

Read this part of Ayat with 7157
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.157k.gif
Therefore/for reason those who accepted/believed in him and they revered him and helped him

First word for obvious reason can never be construed with reference to Allah. And then is Prefixed Conjunction particle which refers back to the person mentioned earlier. The first word is used for the Messenger in 7157. The verbal noun of verb is , in English its equivalent, near words would be adoration, reverence. When we mention him high and elevated, we don't do it at our own, but to reiterate what Allah has said about him;

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/094.%20Ash%20Shrah/94.4.gif
and We have since raised high for you the mention/remembrance/repute of you .

We will never be able to mention him in as dignified a manner as Allah mentions him. And unfortunate are those who do not wish to realize the elevated and exalted position of him.

princess

please follow this url http//store.dar-us-salam.com/G_WallHangings/G02g.html and tell me if that is reverence enough for you?
allah and muhammad cozily right next to each other, hanging on the wall. if one didn't know any better one could say they're equals (at least that's how they're depicted).

'reverence' towards anybody else than god is only the first step, logical sequence is already known to us from the history.

oh, here we omit 'allah' from the big font at all, and for only ?1.99 we can spread idol-worship to your child's school & your own livingroom.
http//www.islamicjewellery.co.uk/popup_image.php?pID=2463&osCsid=65b44668e7ab5bfb72d1edbde6a9111c

in redecorating mood, anyone?

Ayisha

may Allah give them more courage and stability in their love for the Messenger, to whom Allah calls "Mercy for All"

You have not read the Ayat with open heart and mind, ash, but i read your post.

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit......

Some messengers are more blessed then others, thus your and other Quran aloners claim becomes void.
God spoke to one.. this may be leads us to Musa
And Jesus supported with profound Miracles
But still after mentioning of these two, it says some are raised to higher RANKS.

Who are these for that I told you to read the thread but you won't.

One is offcourse Muhammad is peace is upon him

al-Quran
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.

And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.

Allah Ho Akbar

Those who believe, and suffer exile and strive with might and main, in Allah's cause, with their goods and their persons, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah they are the people who will achieve (salvation).

And what cause have ye why ye should not spend in the cause of Allah?- For to Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth. Not equal among you are those who spent (freely) and fought, before the Victory, (with those who did so later). Those are higher in rank than those who spent (freely) and fought afterwards. But to all has Allah promised a goodly (reward). And Allah is well acquainted with all that ye do

Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-

So he began (the search) with their baggage, before (he came to) the baggage of his brother at length he brought it out of his brother's baggage. Thus did We plan for Joseph. He could not take his brother by the law of the king except that Allah willed it (so). We raise to degrees (of wisdom) whom We please but over all endued with knowledge is one, the All-Knowing.

Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward, Ranks specially bestowed by Him, and Forgiveness and Mercy. For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

So should we also revere these people too? Worship those of higher rank, add them to our prayers, because Allah has also granted them a higher rank than others? should some of us become arrogant and assume we are of higher rank and look down on those who are not? Is that really what Allah is saying in telling you about higher ranks?

Ayisha

please follow this url http//store.dar-us-salam.com/G_WallHangings/G02g.html and tell me if that is reverence enough for you?
allah and muhammad cozily right next to each other, hanging on the wall. if one didn't know any better one could say they're equals (at least that's how they're depicted).

'reverence' towards anybody else than god is only the first step, logical sequence is already known to us from the history.

oh, here we omit 'allah' from the big font at all, and for only ?1.99 we can spread idol-worship to your child's school & your own livingroom.
http//www.islamicjewellery.co.uk/popup_image.php?pID=2463&osCsid=65b44668e7ab5bfb72d1edbde6a9111c

in redecorating mood, anyone?

exactly! and in another 50-100 years people will be worshipping Muhammed as god in the flesh and his spirit will be 'within us' just like Jesus! halleluja!

Stop and correct it NOW before it is too late!

Ayisha

re?vere
(past and past participle re?vered, present participle re?ver?ing, 3rd person present singular re?veres)
transitive verb
treat somebody with admiring respect to regard somebody with admiration and deep respect

Microsoft? Encarta? 2006. ? 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation.

First word for obvious reason can never be construed with reference to Allah. And then is Prefixed Conjunction particle which refers back to the person mentioned earlier. The first word is used for the Messenger in 7157. The verbal noun of verb is , in English its equivalent, near words would be adoration, reverence. When we mention him high and elevated, we don't do it at our own, but to reiterate what Allah has said about him;

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/094.%20Ash%20Shrah/94.4.gif
and We have since raised high for you the mention/remembrance/repute of you .

We will never be able to mention him in as dignified a manner as Allah mentions him. And unfortunate are those who do not wish to realize the elevated and exalted position of him.

his position is of higher rank to most men i agree, see my post above, dont elevate him to a higher position as GOD. he was a messenger, no more than that. To imply that those who dont worship and revere a prophet means we dont have respect or love for him is wrong, of course we have respect and love for ALL prophets of God, they were the bearers of His message to us and it is the message that is important, not who brought it.

Mazhar

exactly! and in another 50-100 years people will be worshipping Muhammed as god in the flesh and his spirit will be 'within us' just like Jesus! halleluja!

Stop and correct it NOW before it is too late!

So in the presumptive fear, stop following the instructions to honour and revere. One should first worry for oneself and his household, then bother what people may do 100 years later.