Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
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It looks as if you are feeling guilty to have admitted that.
I have never denied that ALL messengers were 'raised' to a higher status than other ordinary people, of course they were, they were messengers of GOD! Why would I feel guilty?This has all along been the major barrier for people to cross since Satan is always close to majority of humanity whispering to them about their self praise. He wants them not to praise and raise the Messengers of Allah in their daily talks above their own selves, since he wants to make them his companions in the hell prison. Take care.
self praise? have you read your posts? Satan wants you to do as Allah told you not to and he's doing a fine job whispering in your ears to raise ONE above the others.
I have never EVER on this forum or any other denied that ALL messengers were of a higher status than ordinary people and I have even said if Muhammed, or any other messenger where here now I would be first in line to wash their feet! I have never 'self praised' myself above ANY messenger of God so you are now lying and back tracking to get away from the FACT that you have ONE of Gods messengers on a higher pedestal than all the rest and that you praise and WORSHIP him as an IDOL above all others when there is nothing in Quran telling you to do that. ALLAH is the MOST EXALTED above ANY of His creation yet satan whispers that you need a human IDOL to direct THROUGH just as satan did with followers of Jesus. You even play with God's words to lead people on the wrong path just as hadithist do and just as ibn Kathir et al did. Quran is for ALL to read and THINK using their brains and senses and to piece together themselves. The TEST is how you SEE and what you DO with that information.
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This has all along been the major barrier for people to cross since Satan is always close to majority of humanity whispering to them about their self praise. He wants them not to praise and raise the Messengers of Allah in their daily talks above their own selves, since he wants to make them his companions in the hell prison. Take care.
self praise? have you read your posts? Satan wants you to do as Allah told you not to and he's doing a fine job whispering in your ears to raise ONE above the others.
I had perhaps quoted Ayat of Quran where information about my above quote is contained. Do you on second read see any relevance what you have said in reply to quote. The point is only of difference between the Messengers of Allah and ordinary people who do not recognize or can convince themselves to consider them as elevated.
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The point is only of difference between the Messengers of Allah and ordinary people who do not recognize or can convince themselves to consider them as elevated.
No it is not Mazhar. It is about raising one above the others, ordinary people have absolutely nothing to do with this
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No it is not Mazhar. It is about raising one above the others, ordinary people have absolutely nothing to do with this
17 pages back when only one is discussed your response was this
his position is of higher rank to most men i agree, see my post above, dont elevate him to a higher position as GOD.
.Therefore I combined all the Messengers. And you eventually agreed they are elevated above all people. If I again mention him in seclusion, you may or may not accept him great than all ordinary people. I say Easa alahissalam, son of Syeda Maryam and Messenger of Allah is above all ordinary people of past, present and future.
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Jews and Christians and polytheists and Munafiqeen in Believer's society do not believe in Qur'aan which plainly and in straight words announces this
You the Messenger, pronounce, "If you people love Allah, then consciously incline yourselves to follow ME, in letter and spirit, without in between there being third party intervention, Allah will love/appreciate and acknowledge act of you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings
They don't have to believe in the Qur'an. Or, for that matter, in Muhammad.
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
(262)There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
(2256) -
They don't have to believe in the Qur'an. Or, for that matter, in Muhammad.
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
(262)There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
(2256)Ayisha had perhaps quoted it more than once. I requested her to see Arabic text. Information about the past times has been converted into present tense by substituting it with imperfect verb. And friends of Jews get a wrong perception.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062c.gif
Indeed any one; from amongst the people identified/recognized/referenced as believers , and any one from those identified as Jews, and Nisaa'ra and Sai'been;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.069a.gif
who had accepted belief in Allah and the Last Day; and he performed righteous acts
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062d.gif
for this reason/in consequence for such people shall be their reward from their Sustainer Lord;Surat 262
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They don't have to believe in the Qur'an. Or, for that matter, in Muhammad.
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
(262)There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
(2256)And what an interesting argument. The proposition is "They don't have to believe in the Qur'an. Or, for that matter, in Muhammad" and the support argument is from that which was revealed to Muhammad
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The proposition is "They don't have to believe in the Qur'an. Or, for that matter, in Muhammad" and the support argument is from that which was revealed to Muhammad
What's the problem with that? The fact that you or me believe in what has been revealed to Muhammad, for example in the verses I quoted, does not mean others have to believe in the same thing in order to be "accepted" or "loved" by God.
Tbh, I don't really understand why you and some others bother so much. Why is it that important to you to feel that you are among the chosen people and that other ways to God are not valid?
God communicates with people in many ways, not only through particular scriptures or in a particular language. We are all different; why insist that only your approach is the right one? I seriously don't get it.
nope
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Ayisha had perhaps quoted it more than once. I requested her to see Arabic text. Information about the past times has been converted into present tense by substituting it with imperfect verb. And friends of Jews get a wrong perception.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062c.gif
Indeed any one; from amongst the people identified/recognized/referenced as believers , and any one from those identified as Jews, and Nisaa'ra and Sai'been;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.069a.gif
who had accepted belief in Allah and the Last Day; and he performed righteous acts
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062d.gif
for this reason/in consequence for such people shall be their reward from their Sustainer Lord;Surat 262
This is a picture of yours that i never envisaged,,,,, infatuation with prophet Mohammad to such a degree that you are not scared to even change the word of Allah while making deliberate attempts to misguide people?
If your above statement turns out to be wrong , then shame on you , and may Allah's curse be upon you.
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This is a picture of yours that i never envisaged,,,,, infatuation with prophet Mohammad to such a degree that you are not scared to even change the word of Allah while making deliberate attempts to misguide people?
If your above statement turns out to be wrong , then shame on you , and may Allah's curse be upon you.
You have wrongly put the translation of the Ayat in my quote. It is this
Ayisha had perhaps quoted it more than once. I requested her to see Arabic text. Information about the past times has been converted into present tense by substituting it with imperfect verb. And friends of Jews get a wrong perception.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062c.gif
Indeed any one; from amongst the people identified/recognized/referenced as believers , and any one from those identified as Jews, and Nisaa'ra and Sai'been;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.069a.gif
who had accepted belief in Allah and the Last Day; and he performed righteous acts
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062d.gif
for this reason/in consequence for such people shall be their reward from their Sustainer Lord;Surat 262
Now see the words and try to locate all the verbs therein and check some dictionary whether they all narrate the happening of gone past or present day people and then try to translate yourself and prove it incorrect; and if you can't then please redirect your curse to others who substituted the words of Qur'aan in the translation. Arabic text should always remain in our front.
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You have wrongly put the translation of the Ayat in my quote. It is this
Now see the words and try to locate all the verbs therein and check some dictionary whether they all narrate the happening of gone past or present day people and then try to translate yourself and prove it incorrect; and if you can't then please redirect your curse to others who substituted the words of Qur'aan in the translation. Arabic text should always remain in our front.had, have, will, it makes no difference as the main importance of that verse is accepted belief in Allah and the Last Day; and he performed righteous acts. There are many Christians and Jews who abide by the above without having accepted the final messenger and there are many who abide by that without ever knowing of any messengers or books.
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17 pages back when only one is discussed your response was this
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his position is of higher rank to most men i agree, see my post above, dont elevate him to a higher position as GOD.Therefore I combined all the Messengers. And you eventually agreed they are elevated above all people. If I again mention him in seclusion, you may or may not accept him great than all ordinary people. I say Easa alahissalam, son of Syeda Maryam and Messenger of Allah is above all ordinary people of past, present and future.
eventually agreed? Mazhar, you just posted that I SAID THAT 17 pages ago, so how can I 'eventually agree' now? As I keep saying that was NOT the issue and has not been for the last 17 pages, are you reading the same conversation that i am having or something else?
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you can take the words of God and use it to support any belief that you hold - using for your convenience, purpose or to justify your ways. so, a hard core sunni will use the words of God to justify and support his belief, just as a shia. if you believe that a woman should obey her husband and wear hijab, you will find the ayats in the koran supporting that view. if you believe that you should not make friends with non-muslims, you will find verses in the koran to support that. if you believe that only those who follow the koran and hadiths go to heavan, you will find verses in the koran to support that.
how many actually discard all the bias, influences, culture, etc sit down with the koran with a clear mind/heart seeking refuge in God from satan and read the Koran with all sincerity to understand, seek knowledge, wisdom? i wonder.
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you can take the words of God and use it to support any belief that you hold - using for your convenience, purpose or to justify your ways. so, a hard core sunni will use the words of God to justify and support his belief, just as a shia. if you believe that a woman should obey her husband and wear hijab, you will find the ayats in the koran supporting that view. if you believe that you should not make friends with non-muslims, you will find verses in the koran to support that. if you believe that only those who follow the koran and hadiths go to heavan, you will find verses in the koran to support that.
Your observations above are the truth about what happened to God?s teachings about all Truth. When the Arabs chose the riches of Baghdad and the world, instead of upholding the Truth for the Gospels and the Taurat, they created their own religion islam through wars, conquests and suppression. The environments we have in our world today are proofs that the Arabs did not follow God?s commandments of upholding the Truth.
how many actually discard all the bias, influences, culture, etc sit down with the koran with a clear mind/heart seeking refuge in God from satan and read the Koran with all sincerity to understand, seek knowledge, wisdom? i wonder.
This is the Straight Path, justamuslim. Read and understand the Book of Truth in your own language and God will explain into your heart the truth about all Truth. Be a witness instead of just a muslim ;D.
tauhid101.
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I have even said if Muhammed, or any other messenger where here now I would be first in line to wash their feet!
Why?
Ayisha
The MOST Exalted? hhmmm.
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6.100
10.18
16.1
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28.68
30.40
39.67
16.3
27.63
72.3
According to those verse Allah is The Most Exalted, and you say you don't take Muhammed as partner? You have just proved you do. I suggest you read the book RajHow long will you keep on running from the truth? If according to these verses Allah is the most Exalted, who has contradicted it? I am discussing about the Exalted position of Muhammad, and Muhammad is a Messenger, Messenger of Allah. The discussion is about Messengers and Messengers, Messengers and ordinary people. Wake up.
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All prophets and messengers were sent as bearers of good news and as warners
37.72
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Have you ever read this book Raj?Sure I have read this book, but it seems you have just copy pasted from some site (the verses numbers),without even verifying them.
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We have sent to them warners.
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We never annihilate any community without sending warners.
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Mankind was one single nation, and God sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings
4.165
Messengers who were bearers of good news and warners, so that there will be no excuse for the people with God after the messengers. God is Noble, Wise.
6.48
We do not send the messengers except as deliverers of good news, as well as warners. Those who believe and reform have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
18.56
We only send the messengers as simply deliverers of good news, as well as warners. Those who disbelieve argue with falsehood to defeat the truth, and they take My proofs and warnings in vain.and what I posted was this, with a word in red.
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O prophet, we have sent you as a witness, a bearer of good news, as well as a warner.Next time you try to contradict, just read it once before posting the Ayat number, that helps.
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I have even said if Muhammed, or any other messenger where here now I would be first in line to wash their feet!
Why?
Because they were messengers of GodAyishaHow long will you keep on running from the truth? If according to these verses Allah is the most Exalted, who has contradicted it? I am discussing about the Exalted position of Muhammad, and Muhammad is a Messenger, Messenger of Allah. The discussion is about Messengers and Messengers, Messengers and ordinary people. Wake up.
Raj you said Muhammed is 'the Most Exalted' and those verses prove he is not, Allah is. Obviously your English is not so good as you dont seem to understand what you are claiming in saying that, now are you saying Allah contradicts himself too? I am not running from the truth raj, you are.
You have banged on for 25 pages now and everyone thats posted has disagreed with you but you still dont get it. You post a claim that Allah raises some more than others and post a verse to back that up about Jesus and Moses, none about Muhammed though, yet you still cannot see it. Allah also raises some of us more than others which has also been pointed out to you, but you still cannot see it.
You are bringing the same arguement over 25 pages when many people have tried to show you verses that you are wrong and you cannot bring one verse telling you to raise/praise/exalt Muhammed above any other messenger so i think it's clear now that you refuse to see and that is the way Allah is leading you. Enjoy your (sunni) path. giveup
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Sure I have read this book, but it seems you have just copy pasted from some site (the verses numbers),without even verifying them.
3772
We have sent to them warners.
26.208
We never annihilate any community without sending warners.
2.213
Mankind was one single nation, and God sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings
4.165
Messengers who were bearers of good news and warners, so that there will be no excuse for the people with God after the messengers. God is Noble, Wise.
6.48
We do not send the messengers except as deliverers of good news, as well as warners. Those who believe and reform have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
18.56
We only send the messengers as simply deliverers of good news, as well as warners. Those who disbelieve argue with falsehood to defeat the truth, and they take My proofs and warnings in vain.and what I posted was this, with a word in red.
Next time you try to contradict, just read it once before posting the Ayat number, that helps.I did read them but it has already pointed out to you about witnesses and you failed to see that too. Those verses prove that all messengers were sent with good news and as warners and were witnesses to the people they were sent to. Now in your mind you are thinking 'YES and Muhammed was sent to ALL mankind so he is better!' so i will leave you with that. For me, Allah is witness enough.
4.166 Allah is enough as witness
63.1 Allah bears witness
85.9 Allah is witness to all thingsInteresting bit I found in my little searchette
010.018
YUSUFALI They serve, besides Allah, things that hurt them not nor profit them, and they say "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say "Do ye indeed inform Allah of something He knows not, in the heavens or on earth?- Glory to Him! and far is He above the partners they ascribe (to Him)!"010.028
YUSUFALI One day shall We gather them all together. Then shall We say to those who joined gods (with Us) "To your place! ye and those ye joined as 'partners' We shall separate them, and their "Partners" shall say "It was not us that ye worshipped!010.029
YUSUFALI "Enough is Allah for a witness between us and you we certainly knew nothing of your worship of us!"010.035
YUSUFALI Say "Of your 'partners' is there any that can give any guidance towards truth?" Say "It is Allah Who gives guidance towards truth, is then He Who gives guidance to truth more worthy to be followed, or he who finds not guidance (himself) unless he is guided? what then is the matter with you? How judge ye?"I am sure Mazhar will now say this means hand carved statues but please also check 4523.
010.041
YUSUFALI If they charge thee with falsehood, say "My work to me, and yours to you! ye are free from responsibility for what I do, and I for what ye do!"
010.042
YUSUFALI Among them are some who (pretend to) listen to thee But canst thou make the deaf to hear,- even though they are without understanding?giveup
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Interesting bit I found in my little searchette
010.018
YUSUFALI They serve, besides Allah, things that hurt them not nor profit them, and they say "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say "Do ye indeed inform Allah of something He knows not, in the heavens or on earth?- Glory to Him! and far is He above the partners they ascribe (to Him)!"010.028
YUSUFALI One day shall We gather them all together. Then shall We say to those who joined gods (with Us) "To your place! ye and those ye joined as 'partners' We shall separate them, and their "Partners" shall say "It was not us that ye worshipped!010.029
YUSUFALI "Enough is Allah for a witness between us and you we certainly knew nothing of your worship of us!"010.035
YUSUFALI Say "Of your 'partners' is there any that can give any guidance towards truth?" Say "It is Allah Who gives guidance towards truth, is then He Who gives guidance to truth more worthy to be followed, or he who finds not guidance (himself) unless he is guided? what then is the matter with you? How judge ye?"I am sure Mazhar will now say this means hand carved statues but please also check 4523.
You identify who are they?