Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

Raaajah

Patience Ayisha,

Every one knows what you disputed and what you did not?

For example just few posts back you were of the view that, Allah does not make any distinction among Messengers, but now you have totally different view.
Few posts back you were comparing Messengers with Donkeys, now you are ready to Wash their feet.

Therefore little patience dear. Otherwise this was said from day one, which took you about 15 pages to understand and Admit.

NOW IT IS CLEAR UP TO HERE THAT

Messengers are above ordinary Human beings. (and you ready to wash their feet)
Allah prefers some of the Messengers over others, due to different reasons. (This demolishes your claim that Allah makes no distinction among Messengers)

and now the question Why Muhammad? to answer this question we had to recognize that Allah prefers some Messengers over others, and has Given some Higher ranks than others, which at last you admitted and hope you will not run from this as usual.

I take it again you still cannot provide a verse stating Muhammed is more 'preferred' over all other prophets?

I have provided you many Ayats, but you have just bypassed them conveniently, therefore I will not do the same this time, I will just post a Single or Two Ayats and we discuss them and then move on further

This is a proclamation for people who are devout
And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.

http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat21_files/21_107.gif

And during a part of the night wake up for its recitation - a supererogatory service for thee, soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Maqaam Mahmooud

http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat17_files/17_79.gif

Blessed is HE who has sent down Al-Furq?n to HIS servant, that he may be a Warner to all the worlds

http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat25_files/25_1.gif

Now to start with, these three verses talk about the Elevated status of Muhammad Peace is upon him.

Your Turn, but please be logical and if you have any thing other than bashing me or Mazhar, stage is all yours.

Ayisha

Patience Ayisha,

Every one knows what you disputed and what you did not?
yes they do, was that a question?

For example just few posts back you were of the view that, Allah does not make any distinction among Messengers, but now you have totally different view.

no, I was of the view that WE should not make any distinction among messengers, I still am of that view.

Few posts back you were comparing Messengers with Donkeys, now you are ready to Wash their feet.
No i have not 'compared' messengers to donkeys, i did say that if THE MESSAGE was brought BY a donkey OR fell off a TREE or was written on the side of a mountain I would still believe in THE MESSAGE.

Therefore little patience dear. Otherwise this was said from day one, which took you about 15 pages to understand and Admit.
I obviously have a great deal of patience, 'dear', as for 15 pages I have said the same things but it took you 15 pages to accept what i said, and here you are still trying to twist it to make it something else.

NOW IT IS CLEAR UP TO HERE THAT

Messengers are above ordinary Human beings. (and you ready to wash their feet)
never disputed
Allah prefers some of the Messengers over others, due to different reasons. (This demolishes your claim that Allah makes no distinction among Messengers)
disputed that WE make a distinction

and now the question Why Muhammad?
oooh goody, are we going to get the long awaited verse that says raise Muhammed higher than any other prophet and send him worship and praise him above all creation??

to answer this question we had to recognize that Allah prefers some Messengers over others, and has Given some Higher ranks than others, which at last you admitted and hope you will not run from this as usual.

I have provided you many Ayats, but you have just bypassed them conveniently,
erm no raj, none of those ayat contained the name Muhammed, they did however contain Jesus, Moses and David and i provided one naming all other messengers and prophets that Allah had blessed above all mankind, but sadly even that one didnt name Muhammed as THE MOST Exalted as you claim him to be.

therefore I will not do the same this time, I will just post a Single or Two Ayats and we discuss them and then move on further

This is a proclamation for people who are devout
And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.

ok, this is Mazhars translation and you need to apply a bit of logic, which you are sadly lacking. i will try to help you a little

Does Muhammed go to Mars, Venus, Pluto and other 'worlds' to preach the message?

3.108, does this verse mean that Allah wants Muhammed to go and recite His words to other planets?

3.96 is the House built at mecca (Bacca) also on other planets as it says its for 'the worlds' too or do the aliens from other worlds visit earth to do hajj?

6.90, 12104, Quran is a reminder for 'the worlds' so do they read it in Arabic or is it translated into Martian, Venusian etc for them?

21.71 the land Allah blessed for Abraham and his nephew Lot seems to be for all 'the worlds', do Aliens visit it and are there any contracts dividing that land between the 'worlds'?

21.91 Mary and her son were a sign for all the worlds, do these and Muhammed battle it out who goes to which world or is there a set schedule divised by Allah?
(Interestingly enough we now have 3 of high rank who were here 'for all the worlds', where is the praise to Mary and Jesus raj?)

25.1 is the reminder that is for all the worlds, not the bringer of the reminder.

29.15 God saved Nur and family and the ship as a sign for all the worlds, so was the video of it sent to the other planets or had they got satellite set up then?

38.87, 68.52, 81.27 Quran again a reminder for the worlds.

Now to start with, these three verses talk about the Elevated status of Muhammad Peace is upon him.
Ok great! yalla, get on with answering my questions above based on 2 of your verses. Don't foget to use LOGIC Raj ;D

Your Turn, but please be logical and if you have any thing other than bashing me or Mazhar, stage is all yours.

I am logical, so now you use some logic in answering my very logical questions based on the verses I have showed you that use 'all the worlds' as the same word in Arabic that you have given me.

Mazhar

Raajah, very relevant post, but translation is quite weak.

After negation, there is exceptive particle Illa which makes the next word to be taken in absolute sense.

Mazhar A. Nurani "And We have not sent you, the Messenger Muhammad except as Mercy Personified for the known worlds, all that exists".

Ayisha

Raajah, very relevant post, but translation is quite weak.

After negation, there is exceptive particle Illa which makes the next word to be taken in absolute sense.

Mazhar A. Nurani "And We have not sent you, the Messenger Muhammad except as Mercy Personified for the known worlds, all that exists".

But the other 'worlds' did exist then Mazhar and where known, so please feel free to answer my questions I posed to raj if you wish

Mazhar

But the other 'worlds' did exist then Mazhar and where known, so please feel free to answer my questions I posed to raj if you wish

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/1.02a.gif

The Infinite Glory and Praise eternally is entirely and exclusively for Allah, the Sustainer Lord of the Known/Existing Worlds-All that exists.

Mazhar

Does Muhammed go to Mars, Venus, Pluto and other 'worlds' to preach the message?

3.108, does this verse mean that Allah wants Muhammed to go and recite His words to other planets?

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.036.gif
and for you people the dwelling-place and your means of livelihood is in the Earth up to an appointed time".

Ayisha

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/1.02a.gif

The Infinite Glory and Praise eternally is entirely and exclusively for Allah, the Sustainer Lord of the Known/Existing Worlds-All that exists.

That doesnt answer any of my questions, nor is it to do with Muhammed. I KNOW that Allah is Lord and Sustainer AND Creator of all the WORLDS and the entire UNIVERSE, but it doesn't answer what i asked.

However, I would like to draw your attention to the first sentence and ask why the praise on Muhammed when it is clear that "The Infinite Glory and Praise eternally is entirely and exclusively for Allah, "

is it exclusive 'but' ?

Ayisha

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.036.gif
and for you people the dwelling-place and your means of livelihood is in the Earth up to an appointed time".

Again doesnt answer my questions raised based on the translation Raj gave. In fact its nothing to do with any of it and considering your translations also show that Muhammed was for 'all the worlds' I would expect a little more of a detailed answer.

This verse is saying WE are here on Earth, which is understood, but what about Muhammed and jesus and mary and Quran and noah's ship, all for 'all the worlds' so do they all go to other 'worlds' and just we stay here or what?

Raaajah

I will not allow you to play your dirty tricks this time.

I have posted three Ayats, your main objection to the Ayats is, these are not for Muhammad, alright let us first make clear to whom these three Ayats are related to?

Ayisha

erm no raj, none of those ayat contained the name Muhammed, they did however contain Jesus, Moses and David and i provided one naming all other messengers and prophets that Allah had blessed above all mankind, but sadly even that one didnt name Muhammed as THE MOST Exalted as you claim him to be.

Where is Jesus,Moses or DAvid in the three Ayats I mentioned above? why are you making yourself a laughing stock? I will come to the Ayat that you have mentioned and brust your bubble, but right now stop playing dirty old tricks, and answer me

If these three Ayats are not for Muhammad? whom do these address?

Ayisha

ok, this is Mazhars translation and you need to apply a bit of logic, which you are sadly lacking. i will try to help you a little

No. This is not Mazhar's translation. Stop being stupid.

Ayisha

Does Muhammed go to Mars, Venus, Pluto and other 'worlds' to preach the message?

Sure, I will answer that, from Quran, but as of now, concentrate on these three verses, prove it to me that they are not for Muhammad? as you claim.

So this time a straight forward answer is what is needed, if you want a healthy conversation.

First read these three Ayats, i posted, and then answer the question above.

Raaajah

Ayisha

But the other 'worlds' did exist then Mazhar and where known, so please feel free to answer my questions I posed to raj if you wish

Ayisha

Again doesnt answer my questions raised based on the translation Raj gave. In fact its nothing to do with any of it and considering your translations also show that Muhammed was for 'all the worlds' I would expect a little more of a detailed answer.

Patience is the word. As of now answer the question above.

Ayisha

I will not allow you to play your dirty tricks this time.
My 'dirty tricks'? You mean the ones where I apply logic and refute your silly claims then ask you questions you can never answer?

I have posted three Ayats, your main objection to the Ayats is, these are not for Muhammad, alright let us first make clear to whom these three Ayats are related to?
Where did i say that? Did you even bother reading what I wrote Raj? This foolish claim is proof you have no idea what you are talking about, or its YOU up to your dirty tricks yet again.

Ayisha
Where is Jesus,Moses or DAvid in the three Ayats I mentioned above? why are you making yourself a laughing stock? I will come to the Ayat that you have mentioned and brust your bubble, but right now stop playing dirty old tricks, and answer me
More proof you either didnt read what I said, or didnt read what I was answering or are again up to your dirty tricks. My reply was not related to the 3 ayat you posted. I asked for ayat which proved you claim that Allah 'preferred' Muhammed over any other messenger and you claimed you have posted many. go and read again where you claimed you have posted many ayat BEFORE you posted those 3, claiming they were proof but they contained names of all BUT Muhammed as I said. You are the laughing stock Raj, you are claiming I answered your 3 ayat before you even posted them rotfl yalla Raj, 'brust' my bubble.

If these three Ayats are not for Muhammad? whom do these address?
where did I say they weren't? I didn't, I asked you questions based on them which you obviously are unable to answer

AyishaNo. This is not Mazhar's translation. Stop being stupid.
I put them in search and nothing came up anywhere, so they are not known or accepted translations. You gave verse numbers but in your stupidity or part of your dirty little tickery, failed to give chapter numbers so in order to look at them I have to find which chapter they were from. i had to use Mazhar's site to find them, but I only searched the first one as I don't have all day and night to waste on you. Then I looked at the word used for 'all the worlds' and searched that to find the rest. Stop avoiding my questions Raj

Ayisha
Sure, I will answer that, from Quran, but as of now, concentrate on these three verses, prove it to me that they are not for Muhammad? as you claim.
I didn't claim they weren't Raj. Prove to me I claimed those 3 ayat are not for Muhammed. You are again playing your dirty tricks where you ask a question, I answer it and raise a question for you and you come back claiming I didnt answer it and ask me more based on what I didnt say. Tired old dirty tricks raj that everyone reading can see. So, answer that question based on Quran like you just claimed you can.

So this time a straight forward answer is what is needed, if you want a healthy conversation.

First read these three Ayats, i posted, and then answer the question above.

I did. Healthy conversation with you is an impossibility as you have proven over and over as you don't read or understand anything, cannot answer anything and accuse me of saying things I didnt. How can I have a healthy conversation with one that is totally illogical, tells blatant lies and is unable to answer anything?

Ayisha

AyishaAyisha
Patience is the word. As of now answer the question above.

I have, now you answer mine. I have lots of patience Raj, one has to when one is dealing with an obvious idiot who is unable to use logic and never answers any questions.

stillearning

AOA Rajaah
I recently started reading this thread but after about 19 pages jumped to the last pages, apologies if I have missed any thing, but the the whole discussion is just going round is circles. Whislt I have no wish to get involved in prolonging this circular argument. Few observations and questions, particularly for you and Mazhar.

Could you please clarify what you mean by praising Mohd? From what I have read so far you appear to be clear that we should not be praying to Mohd or assigning any supernatural powers. My understanding also is that everyone seems to accept that Mohd was a worthy of praise for obvious reasons. Indeed I could add that most humans at one time or other are worthy of praise for their actions or qualities. However where I am not sure (and I assume others have found the same problem) what is different about your praise.

I agree with you that, despite my disagreement with some of its founder members view on issues such as Hajj etc, that this is the best muslim site. For me at least from my not so frequent visits. I would assume that you like I are in constant search of truth and are gracious enough to accept mistakes, for it enhances the quality of discussion. Hence if you categorically claim that a word is Armaic and then discover that it is actually Greek then wriggling around try to claim to the contrary. I am afraid weakens the merits of the rest of your points. As it then appears that the discussion is not bout establishing the truth but the glory of winning the debate.

AOA Mazhar
Sorry most of your points have been beyond my comprehension. HoweverI did agree initially about your insertion about the part time messanger but once the explanations of the original point were stated it became clear what the author meant. I think it would have been sesensible to accept its merits. For whislt the judge will always retain the title of a judge, even after he/she has departed this world. He /she cannot continue to perform the duties of a judge.

I found your persistent use of the english lady in reference to Aysha as patronising and hint of racism. I cannot see the relevance of ones ethnic origin to this discussion.

Regards

Raaajah

More proof you either didnt read what I said, or didnt read what I was answering or are again up to your dirty tricks. My reply was not related to the 3 ayat you posted.

What else can be proof of your Ignorance? Sigh!

After reading this, what I said
Rajah

I have provided you many Ayats, but you have just bypassed them conveniently, therefore I will not do the same this time, I will just post a Single or Two Ayats and we discuss them and then move on further

Rajah

Now to start with, these three verses talk about the Elevated status of Muhammad Peace is upon him.

Rajah

First read these three Ayats, i posted, and then answer the question above.

and you

My reply was not related to the 3 ayat you posted.

Do you read before you post? you are proving yourself to be mental midget. No healthy conversation can be carried out with a person who even does not bothers to read the views of opposing side and poses as a bigot.

Ayisha

What else can be proof of your Ignorance? Sigh!
I agree

I take it again you still cannot provide a verse stating Muhammed is more 'preferred' over all other prophets?

I have provided you many Ayats, but you have just bypassed them conveniently, therefore I will not do the same this time, I will just post a Single or Two Ayats and we discuss them and then move on further

This is a proclamation for people who are devout
And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.

That was the order it was said in Raj, page 27, go check before making an even bigger fool of yourself

Do you read before you post? you are proving yourself to be mental midget. No healthy conversation can be carried out with a person who even does not bothers to read the views of opposing side and poses as a bigot.

I fully agree!

This is here in black and white for all to see. I take it you have no more to add to this 'constructive' discussion?

Raaajah

Salaam

Stll Learning

AOA Rajaah
I recently started reading this thread but after about 19 pages jumped to the last pages, apologies if I have missed any thing, but the the whole discussion is just going round is circles. Whislt I have no wish to get involved in prolonging this circular argument. Few observations and questions, particularly for you and Mazhar.

Dear,
It seems the whole discussion goes around in circles is due to the bigotry nature of some over here, same questions asked again and again, even if clarified. For example you can read the recent posts, and learn how difficult it is to convey a single message along.

Still Learning

Could you please clarify what you mean by praising Mohd? From what I have read so far you appear to be clear that we should not be praying to Mohd or assigning any supernatural powers.

I will quote you why the thread was started. And Yes I am clear regarding, we should not pray to him, and assigning him super natural powers.

Most of the posters here at FM get irritated or annoyed when some one praises Muhammad, they feel itchy. No doubt this Forum is ONE OF THE BEST Muslim Forums available, it really brings a person near to GOD, it provides a much needed platform for Muslim Youths; who are astray and looking for someone to bring them out of darkness;it breaks boundaries of Bokhari, Muslim in which Muslims are imprisoned from centuries and tries to bring out the truth; But in this process one thing which is being ignored, which is being distorted which is being denied is the Love with Prophet, and I feel my duty to try to bring this topic in lime light.
Some may say that love with Prophet has nothing to do with Faith; may be Yes, may be No; we will look to it as the conversation moves on.

Still learning

My understanding also is that everyone seems to accept that Mohd was a worthy of praise for obvious reasons.

There you are wrong, If every one accepted that Muhammad Peace is upon him is praise worthy and praised him practically and then there was no need for this thread isn't it?

For example, we take your post for instance, you continuously write down "Mohd" for Muhammad Peace is upon him, this is not the way Quran teaches us, to call Allah's messengers. This again is not even appropriate by any standards. What if one calls his mother by the name of "Mad" if her name is Madonna? it won't look nice.
Similarly there were and are persons on this forum who think

Muhammad was just an ordinary Human being
Muhammad was mere post man
Muhammad was a part time messenger
A messenger can be Donkey etc.
Allah makes no distinction among messengers.

So the thread was actually addressed to them.

Still learning

Indeed I could add that most humans at one time or other are worthy of praise for their actions or qualities.

Yes, but the Messengers are praise worthy throughout.

Still learning

I agree with you that, despite my disagreement with some of its founder members view on issues such as Hajj etc, that this is the best muslim site.

Yes! I say that because, most of Muslims sites are narrow minded. And yes there are lots of issues regarding founder members point of views, but you can discuss them most of the time.

Still learning

I would assume that you like I are in constant search of truth and are gracious enough to accept mistakes, for it enhances the quality of discussion. Hence if you categorically claim that a word is Armaic and then discover that it is actually Greek then wriggling around try to claim to the contrary. I am afraid weakens the merits of the rest of your points. As it then appears that the discussion is not bout establishing the truth but the glory of winning the debate.

True. But regarding the Aramaic and Greek word, I think you have been influenced by the propaganda of one of our sweet and emotional member.
I will try to make it clear, but before that,I just request you to once gain revisit those pages. May be it is a mistake on my part, but after revisiting it many times, I could not grasp the point.

and Thank you for reading the thread and commenting on it.

Raaajah

Ayisha

This is here in black and white for all to see. I take it you have no more to add to this 'constructive' discussion

Just move back to those three Ayats, and show me to whom these are addressing, to Muhammad peace is upon him or any other? I will not allow you to get off track this time. I think the discussion is on interesting turn, therefore Just answer it, rather running away.

If you find difficult to find the Chapter numbers, I can help you, here
21,107 1779 251

Ayisha

Ayisha
Just move back to those three Ayats, and show me to whom these are addressing, to Muhammad peace is upon him or any other? I will not allow you to get off track this time. I think the discussion is on interesting turn, therefore Just answer it, rather running away.

If you find difficult to find the Chapter numbers, I can help you, here
21,107 1779 251

You are getting off track making false accusations. Show me where I have said they are not addressing Muhammed, I have not and I have clearly asked you questions relating to those verses, now please answer them as you claimed you could, otherwise stop going round in circles and running in all directions as you keep doing.

Raaajah

Ayisha

You are getting off track making false accusations. Show me where I have said they are not addressing Muhammed,..

Therefore you agree that these Ayats are addressing Muhammad peace is upon him. Allah Ho Akbar.
21,107 1779 251

We leave the discussion at this point for a moment and lets go back to your Questions, the questions which are raised due to ignorance about Allah's book,

Ayisha

Does Muhammed go to Mars, Venus, Pluto and other 'worlds' to preach the message?
3.108, does this verse mean that Allah wants Muhammed to go and recite His words to other planets?
3.96 is the House built at mecca (Bacca) also on other planets as it says its for 'the worlds' too or do the aliens from other worlds visit earth to do hajj?
6.90, 12104, Quran is a reminder for 'the worlds' so do they read it in Arabic or is it translated into Martian, Venusian etc for them?

Your basic question here seems to be that "Are there any other worlds" despite we live in?
The answer is Yes, according to Quran.

Praise be to Allah, the Rab of all the worlds/b] 12

and this Allah who is Rab of All the worlds sends different Messengers, including Muhammad (not all messengers), to all the worlds,

And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.
21107

But I know for a lady of your "caliber" this would not be enough.

Say "If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Quran like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another."

Yet another proof that the book of Allah send to Messenger Muhammad is not only for Humans living in this world, but for another Creatures too.

And from among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the creatures He spread in them. And He is able to summon them, if He wills.

again proves that there are Allah's creatures living other than Earth.

Say No one in the heavens and the earth knows the unseen but Allah; and they do not know when they shall be raised.

Off course, angels are not referred to here as they will not be raised.

and Now Ayisha, only a non believer can reject what I am going to show you

http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat65_files/65_12.gif

Allah who created seven worlds and the same number of earths. The commands flow among them. This is to let you know that God is capable of all things, and that God has encompassed all things with His knowledge. 6512

Now after these very clear Ayats, one who has eyes to see and ears to listen and mind to ponder, can arrive very safely at the Conclusion, that Messengers and Messages could be for different worlds at the same time, it is only that we cannot perceive. Therefore those some Messengers, including Muhammad peace is upon him were signs for all the worlds.
Now read it with cool mind, take your time, then respond,
Because if some messengers were for all worlds, then why Muhammad peace is upon him is above them all? I still have to answer that from Quran.

Mazhar

AOA Mazhar
Sorry most of your points have been beyond my comprehension. HoweverI did agree initially about your insertion about the part time messanger but once the explanations of the original point were stated it became clear what the author meant. I think it would have been sesensible to accept its merits. For whislt the judge will always retain the title of a judge, even after he/she has departed this world. He /she cannot continue to perform the duties of a judge.

Unless you point out what point is beyond your comprehension, I can't explain it to make it understanable. Once a Messenger, he is always to be remembered and mentioned as Messenger. We all know they are dead. So Allah also knew they are dead. But still he never forgets to call them Messenger. Does He not know they are not now performing the duty of a Messenger?