Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
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Mazhar
Positive way of saying is like this, "yes I agree that the Messenger of Allah Muhammad is ELEVATED above ALL the ordinary people". Is it Yes?
How hard is it to utter it from mouth? not even by mouth but even type it through key board.
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And We have not sent thee save as a bringer of good tidings and a warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind know not.This lady does not know that, this is the Only messenger sent towards "all Man Kind" as mercy to "all the "Worlds", and if there is any other messenger of Allah, just show me,
Simple it is.Offcourse if it is hard for them to say Muhammad is better then all the ordinary Human beings, how could they swallow this bitter pill.
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I have never disagreed that ALL the messengers of Allah were elevated above ordinary people and that is NOT what this discussion is about and never has been. This discussion is about ONE messenger being elevated above the OTHER messengers and you KNOW it has!
The thread is called Praise be to Muhammed rasool Allah, not praise be to ALL rasool Allah, stop wasting time trying to twist the discussion.It was responded earlier. That needs an answer whether you agree that "the Messenger of Allah Muhammad is ELEVATED above ALL the ordinary people", or you consider this too a false assertion/statement?
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well as you have BOTH now moved the discussion onto something totally different than what was being discussed I will take it as you have both run out of trying to claim that ONE messenger of Allah was elevated above the other messengers of Allah and have now moved on to this ONE messenger of Allah was elevated above ordinary people.
Muhammed was elevated above the ordinary people of his time as he was the messenger of Allah
ok that ends that discussion, now can we go back to the real discussion where you both claim he was elevated above ALL other messengers.
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well as you have BOTH now moved the discussion onto something totally different than what was being discussed I will take it as you have both run out of trying to claim that ONE messenger of Allah was elevated above the other messengers of Allah and have now moved on to this ONE messenger of Allah was elevated above ordinary people. )
Muhammed was elevated above the ordinary people of his time as he was the messenger of Allah
ok that ends that discussion, now can we go back to the real discussion where you both claim he was elevated above ALL other messengers.
Scrutinize the whole thread and let me know where did I enter into discussion of Elevating one Messenger over the other?
Muhammed was elevated above the ordinary people of his time as he was the messenger of Allah
So you do not accept that he is elevated over and above you, aymen, edip and few others of this forum?
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Scrutinize the whole thread and let me know where did I enter into discussion of Elevating one Messenger over the other?
So you do not accept that he is elevated over and above you, aymen, edip and few others of this forum?he is dead Mazhar and you speak of him in present tense? This discussion is not the one I was having and it is not the one I have been having and is totally irrelavant to the discussion I was having!
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Ayisha
Muhammed was elevated above the ordinary people of his time as he was the messenger of Allah
Mazhar
So you do not accept that he is elevated over and above you, aymen, edip and few others of this forum?
Off-course that is what she means, not only few but all, throughout after the Mutation took place.
Ayisha
well as you have BOTH now moved the discussion onto something totally different than what was being discussed I will take it as you have both run out of trying to claim that ONE messenger of Allah was elevated above the other messengers of Allah and have now moved on to this ONE messenger of Allah was elevated above ordinary people.
Mazhar has made clear himself, and given you open challenge to scrutinize the thread. Still beating the same old drum means nothing.
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he is dead Mazhar and you speak of him in present tense? This discussion is not the one I was having and it is not the one I have been having and is totally irrelavant to the discussion I was having!
"He is dead", so you say "The Messenger of Allah is now dead". And you object "you speak of him in present tense". All speak of him in present tense, should I show you,
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YUSUFALI And know that among you is Allah's Messenger were he, in many matters, to follow your (wishes), ye would certainly fall into misfortune But Allah has endeared the Faith to you, and has made it beautiful in your hearts, and He has made hateful to you Unbelief, wickedness, and rebellion such indeed are those who walk in righteousness;-
PICKTHAL And know that the messenger of Allah is among you. If he were to obey you in much of the government, ye would surely be in trouble; but Allah hath endeared the faith to you and hath beautified it in your hearts, and hath made disbelief and lewdness and rebellion hateful unto you. Such are they who are the rightly guided.
SHAKIR And know that among you is Allah's Messenger; should he obey you in many a matter, you would surely fall into distress, but Allah has endeared the faith to you and has made it seemly in your hearts, and He has made hateful to you unbelief and transgression and disobedience; these it is that are the followers of a right way.Progressive Muslims 497 And know that among you is the messenger of God. If he were to obey you in many things, you would be in difficulty. But God made you love faith and He adorned it in your hearts, and He made you hate disbelief, wickedness, and disobedience. These are the rightly guided ones.
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"He is dead", so you say "The Messenger of Allah is now dead". And you object "you speak of him in present tense". All speak of him in present tense, should I show you,
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049.007
YUSUFALI And know that among you is Allah's Messenger were he, in many matters, to follow your (wishes), ye would certainly fall into misfortune But Allah has endeared the Faith to you, and has made it beautiful in your hearts, and He has made hateful to you Unbelief, wickedness, and rebellion such indeed are those who walk in righteousness;-
PICKTHAL And know that the messenger of Allah is among you. If he were to obey you in much of the government, ye would surely be in trouble; but Allah hath endeared the faith to you and hath beautified it in your hearts, and hath made disbelief and lewdness and rebellion hateful unto you. Such are they who are the rightly guided.
SHAKIR And know that among you is Allah's Messenger; should he obey you in many a matter, you would surely fall into distress, but Allah has endeared the faith to you and has made it seemly in your hearts, and He has made hateful to you unbelief and transgression and disobedience; these it is that are the followers of a right way.Progressive Muslims 497 And know that among you is the messenger of God. If he were to obey you in many things, you would be in difficulty. But God made you love faith and He adorned it in your hearts, and He made you hate disbelief, wickedness, and disobedience. These are the rightly guided ones.
Mazhar, that was when he WAS among them when he was alive. ??? So are you now saying he is with us now? that he is what...... omnipresent perhaps? Do you pray to him too? do you ask him to intercede for you? How can he obey us in any matter NOW?
this is getting more and more bizarre each post! laugh
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Muhammed was elevated above the ordinary people of his time as he was the messenger of Allah
So you do not accept him elevated above the people of present times. So perhaps this too will be difficult for you to accept him as witness upon/against you, Ayisha;
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YUSUFALI We have sent to you, (O men!) a messenger, to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent a messenger to Pharaoh.
PICKTHAL Lo! We have sent unto you a messenger as witness against you, even as We sent unto Pharaoh a messenger.
SHAKIR Surely We have sent to you a Messenger, a witness against you, as We sent a messenger to Firon.Progressive MuslimsL 7315 We have sent to you a messenger as a witness over you, as We have sent to Pharaoh a messenger.
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So you do not accept him elevated above the people of present times. So perhaps this too will be difficult for you to accept him as witness upon/against you, Ayisha;
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YUSUFALI We have sent to you, (O men!) a messenger, to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent a messenger to Pharaoh.
PICKTHAL Lo! We have sent unto you a messenger as witness against you, even as We sent unto Pharaoh a messenger.
SHAKIR Surely We have sent to you a Messenger, a witness against you, as We sent a messenger to Firon.Progressive MuslimsL 7315 We have sent to you a messenger as a witness over you, as We have sent to Pharaoh a messenger.
Right so now Muhammed is a witness against me who was born 1400 years after him? So he must be omnipresent then, just like Allah? oh and Jesus. Does not logic apply in that he was witness while he was alive and not now after he is dead?
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Ayisha, I did not give my translation. That is of others and progressive people. What an English reader will get from it when he will not even see the Arabic text placed above it?
An English reader will get that it was recited to the man that was speaking it to the people around THEN given that ONLY Allah is omnipresent and that Muhammed is a human being so therefore CANNOT be witnessing every person forever after he is dead, unless of course he is Allah like Jesus was
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Mazhar, that was when he WAS among them when he was alive.
Yeah sure we should delete these verses from Quran now, they have No use, Are you follower of Rashad Khalifa? he removed only Two, but by your standards we have to remove Dozens, hail You are famous overnight, Ayisha.
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Right so now Muhammed is a witness against me who was born 1400 years after him? So he must be omnipresent then, just like Allah? oh and Jesus. Does not logic apply in that he was witness while he was alive and not now after he is dead?
It is not logic. It is something else which hampers accepting the word as is written in the text.
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Progressive Muslims 2143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to distinguish who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
Are you not the member of this "balanced nation" or it comprised of only those who lived in those days?
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Yeah sure we should delete these verses from Quran now, they have No use, Are you follower of Rashad Khalifa? he removed only Two, but by your standards we have to remove Dozens, hail You are famous overnight, Ayisha.
who said anything about deleting the verses raj? There are verses about Moses Noor and jesus do you want them deleted too? They are verses to LEARN from just as these are BUT they are in present tense and directed to the people there when he was alive.
No i am certainly NOT a follower of Khalifa and as you are now prostrating to me please use SAW after my name to show your respect!
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Allah is omnipresent and that Muhammed is a human being
Ayisha let me try to simplify the issue for you, since this perception of ominpresence with regard to "shaidan" might be the cause of confusion.
First would you like to clear the perception about the word "shaidan". It is active participle, singular, masculine. Its verbal noun is . It is person entitled to appear in the Court and record his statement. And who is entitled to appear and record his statement as a witness? One who has observed with eyes the actual happening or the one who knows authoritatively about the happening. In Qur'aan nowhere it is suggested that he is physically watching the conduct of people of his own days or after him, yet he is the Witness on the Day of Judgment. Allah is watching people but He being the Judge He cannot act as a Witness. The Messengers will act as the Witness after having been acquainted with the entire record of their "clients".
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Quran Surah Jinn
He is the Knower of the future; He does not reveal the future to anyone.Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future, specific news.
What is the need to reveal the news from future,? when Allah knows there is no need, to reveal the future news, as the Messenger will not be there in future, he will be dead, according to you.
I know the lady will come up with some xtreme nonsense, therefore I will quote Muhammad about preserving Pharoah's body from Quran, one out of many news revealed to Muhammad about future.
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It is not logic. It is something else which hampers accepting the word as is written in the text.
must be my ignorant veiled heart and mind eh?http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.27.gif
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Progressive Muslims 2143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to distinguish who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
Are you not the member of this "balanced nation" or it comprised of only those who lived in those days?
I direct myself at the focal point but inform me which people i am witness over please? This is regarding the changing of the qibla to see who followed in that instruction.
Also why did you this time not use your own translation
And this is how We have made you people a justly balanced community so that you people attain position of witnesses over the people of society, and the Messenger shall be the witness over yourselves. And We have not appointed/declared that Qib'laa'taa for everyone, upon which you ever were, except only to expose/make it known as to who kept following the Messenger and who turned away upon his heels/declaration of his acceptance. And indeed this declaration of Messenger's Qib'laa'taa as The Qib'laa'taa was heavy/momentous for people except those who had been guided by Allah. And never would Allah make your belief of no effect.
But Allah also says
2.177 Free Minds Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Scripture, and the prophets, and he gives money out of love to the near relatives, and the orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves, and he holds the contact-method, and he contributes towards betterment; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous.Your translation
It is not virtue that you people turn your faces facing face to face/confronting East and West, instead virtue is of that person who believed in Allah, and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book , and the Chosen & Elevated Servants of Allah; and he spent wealth for sake of Allah to the near relatives, and the orphans, and the destitute, and the wayfarer, and those who seek help, and to get freedom for the slaves/prisoners; and he maintained Ass-Sa'laat and paid Az-Zakaa't; and they/such are the people who honour their pledges when they have entered into a pledge; and they remain coolly perseverant in financial crisis and adversity and in times of poverty/war. They are the people who have proved their word as true; and they are the people who are truly cautious, heedful, and mindful avoiding unrestrained conduct.So Muslims are to face the Qubla but the jews and christians are not pious whatever way they face?
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Ayisha let me try to simplify the issue for you, since this perception of ominpresence with regard to "shaidan" might be the cause of confusion.
First would you like to clear the perception about the word "shaidan". It is active participle, singular, masculine. Its verbal noun is . It is person entitled to appear in the Court and record his statement. And who is entitled to appear and record his statement as a witness? One who has observed with eyes the actual happening or the one who knows authoritatively about the happening. In Qur'aan nowhere it is suggested that he is physically watching the conduct of people of his own days or after him, yet he is the Witness on the Day of Judgment. Allah is watching people but He being the Judge He cannot act as a Witness. The Messengers will act as the Witness after having been acquainted with the entire record of their "clients".
and do i get to see the full records of my clients who i am also witness over in society?