How can you tell if someone is becoming abusive?
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Peace All
What defines abuse in a relationship? What are the signs? Are there any tell-tale signs that show that someone could be abusive in the future? Someone told me if someone is being very controlling its a sign of bad things to come like physical or mental abuse.
Just wanted to hear your thoughts from experience/real life stories any of you may have encountered, rather than what "statistics" or "psychology" tells me
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Salam,
Yes, controlling and jealousy are big issues of becoming worse by time. But there can always be exceptions of course.
I haven't been abused myself so I cannot share from real life.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
PEace Sis, all
So if let's say someone wasn't very jealous before but all of a sudden it starts getting to be alot more, is there a way to reverse it?
Is what constitutes abuse subjective/cultural? Or is it a brightline?
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You can't really tell, Some theories believe its genetic confused there's alot of theories about abuse anyway wouldn't you make it clear in a relationship that no abuse would be tolerated? lots of people are abusive though it's not physical it's verbal. Sometimes the least expected person can become physically abusive, frustration can make people abusive..
there is many factors.
Jealousy is ok to an extent so is control.. it'' just when it comes to take over your life it can become suffocating, it doesn't mean they will be physically abusive it doesn't mean it's an indicator. They would probably be angry and if it continues they'd maybe part?
I think you would need to know what increased the jealousy to make it lower, even then I don't think it's easily reversable.
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Peace all
i don't know what's unacceptable/suffocating vs. acceptable and "normal" anymore -[
i know i sound stupid but how do you differentiate?
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hmm well what do you feel is right? what do you feel is suffocating? it really depends on you
For instance I won't tolerate a man swearing at me at all nor would I tolerate hitting whatever the reason is.
I think tolerance on both sides should be taken into consideration. There is going to be things he hates about you there is going to be thinks you hate about him, sometimes we have to accept it. People don't (though offcourse some do) so then it leads to "I don't want you doing this" and if you still do it due to habit or whatever then they'd get upset and maybe fight verbally and argue. And then if it gets constant I'd call that suffocating.
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PEace sis, bro, all
what if what he needs from me is for my own good? what if it's out of love or caring?
i guess i need to know if i'm making excuses for him (which some friends told me is a sign of being in an abusive relationship for too long) or if i'm just being influenced now by women who just won't understand my culture or deen.
if i am making excuses how do i stop this cycle? bro wakas, you explained it should be thru communication... i think i'm not saying it properly because it always turns into a fight. how do you say it effectively without putting the other person on the defensive?
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Peace
He might be self conscious and does not trust you if he is jealous. Talk about where these feelings of his stem from and determine if those reasons hold any serious weight.
I suppose I would say abuse is having you act against your will, and a lack of acknowlegement for your feelings and/or opinions.
I think your own good is your own responsibility and no one is going to shoulder that responsibility save yourself. Why don't you talk to yourself in front of a mirror, ask yourself the tough questions and speak the truth and then you may shed some light on your own condition.
Joe
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Peace Sis BOOST,
Just the fact that you're questioning it is a HUGE indicator that something is wrong. The sooner you learn to trust your gut instincts, the better honed they will become. If it feels like abuse, it is. Any and everytime you have to read into someone's actions, there is a problem. Take it from me sister, there's a lot of fish in the sea. Don't ever waste your time with anyone who doesn't make you feel great about yourself. Life is way too short to spend it trying to understand someone's "issues" and then trying to fix them. Take really good care of yourself and let people who are a drag on your spirit fall to the wayside. Everyone is responsible for their own growth. It isn't your job to be with someone who's actions are questionable. Become your best person, someone YOU value, and that's the kind of person you'll attract. Ending relationships with people who aren't positively complementing you is the most loving choice for both of you. Don't ever let yourself get caught up in a 'ship where you're constantly trying to understand why they just don't make you feel good. Move on girl, be strong. It doesn't mean you're not a loving person, it means just the opposite. If you don't love yourself, really love yourself, you'll never be with someone who can truly love you either. Everyone deserves real love, but it has to start with you.
peace sis,
lilyfleur -
Peace Sis BOOST,
Just the fact that you're questioning it is a HUGE indicator that something is wrong. The sooner you learn to trust your gut instincts, the better honed they will become. If it feels like abuse, it is. Any and everytime you have to read into someone's actions, there is a problem. Take it from me sister, there's a lot of fish in the sea. Don't ever waste your time with anyone who doesn't make you feel great about yourself. Life is way too short to spend it trying to understand someone's "issues" and then trying to fix them. Take really good care of yourself and let people who are a drag on your spirit fall to the wayside. Everyone is responsible for their own growth. It isn't your job to be with someone who's actions are questionable. Become your best person, someone YOU value, and that's the kind of person you'll attract. Ending relationships with people who aren't positively complementing you is the most loving choice for both of you. Don't ever let yourself get caught up in a 'ship where you're constantly trying to understand why they just don't make you feel good. Move on girl, be strong. It doesn't mean you're not a loving person, it means just the opposite. If you don't love yourself, really love yourself, you'll never be with someone who can truly love you either. Everyone deserves real love, but it has to start with you.
peace sis,
lilyfleurthats rather a biased and selfish response. You cant comment that strong without understanding the situation well. But I do agree with you, there are plenty of fish in the sea.
if you see you arent going to be able to live with kind of man for the rest of your life then its time to move on. Alternatively look at the things he is asking of you, if its for you own good, well then its an indication that you should listen to him. Not all good things will be sweet for you. Nevertheless its good for u.
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Peace Boost, all,
"Abuse" is a very subjective and broad meaning word and a hundred different people will consider a hundred different things as "abusive". Also for a better understanding of the situation in order to give the appropriate suggestion/advice, both sides of the story need to be heard and perhaps one suggestion would be to involve someone who is close to both the partners to try to resolve the issue, and also to have open communication between the partners as bro Wakas suggested and to precisely define the limits and boundaries of acceptable and tolerable behavior. Usually abusive situations arise when one partner lets the other keep repeating an undesirable behavior without nipping it in the bud, thus leading to it becoming a conditioned behavior.
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PEace All
Thanks for all the advice. I think it's my fault since i'm really not explaining anything in great detail.
He asks me not to go out with mixed company at night unless under certain circumstances.
He asks me to come home before 10 pm.
He asks that I not associate with my male colleagues more than on a professional basis.
He asks that I not be over-friendly with people of the opposite sex because they take it the wrong way. He understands me very well. My reaction to a man who is showing me attention is to laugh. But my laughs are more out of shyness and not feeling comfortable with the situation. He recognizes that but wants me to stop doing it because it gives a man the green light to keep going.
So his requests really are for my own good. It's just lately they're getting more and more. I can't study with any male classmate. I can't work on any group projects with a male one on one. I can't sit next to males in the classroom. If i'm half an hour over 10 pm there's a fight. He would much rather i sit at home than go out consistently. he monitors my emails and msn messenger. he doesn't want me driving when it gets dark. i have to show my anger calmly and not raise my voice. i don't know it seems like everything is going to an extreme.
he tells me he's just worried about me more because i live on my own. so maybe this is all temporary. but i think a long talk is in order.
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Peace Boost,
It seems there is a serious trust issue and obvious insecurity and jealousy on his part if what you are saying is true. I agree that open communication and re-establishment of trust are some of the important things that need to be done asap for the relationship to continue in a sane manner, in addition to some reasonable compromise by both. I personally do not have much experience with such relationships so perhaps other more experienced members can give more advice.
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Peace Boost,
I realise the situation is a delicate one, but nevertheless one I'm familiar with to some degree.
So his requests really are for my own good.
Sometimes, the way its phrased might appear to be for your benefit but is actally a control gambit.
He asks me not to go out with mixed company at night unless under certain circumstances.
He asks me to come home before 10 pm.
He asks that I not associate with my male colleagues more than on a professional basis.
Just to clarify and to help me understand this situation better, does he follow the same rules more or less?
He asks that I not be over-friendly with people of the opposite sex because they take it the wrong way. He understands me very well. My reaction to a man who is showing me attention is to laugh. But my laughs are more out of shyness and not feeling comfortable with the situation. He recognizes that but wants me to stop doing it because it gives a man the green light to keep going.
This just seems like starting insecurity issues, especially if you guys aren't married, but also a desire to control your reactions to what he thinks are the right ones that would make him feel better. Someone who is secure might not ask you to change anything but laugh right along with you, in either case, it could definitely change once you guys know each other better/live together for some time.
It's just lately they're getting more and more. I can't study with any male classmate. I can't work on any group projects with a male one on one. I can't sit next to males in the classroom. If i'm half an hour over 10 pm there's a fight. He would much rather i sit at home than go out consistently. he monitors my emails and msn messenger. he doesn't want me driving when it gets dark. i have to show my anger calmly and not raise my voice. i don't know it seems like everything is going to an extreme.
Def control issues and insecurity here. I've been through this and the best advice I can give you (that people gave me at the time) is to ask him to trust you and that you are not going to do anything wrong and are in control of the situation. Accidents can always happen but that doesnt mean one should stay in a shell all their life. You live and learn and if someone cannot allow you to have normal breathing space, then you need to fight for it (metaphorically). Both of you can always compromise on things, like the amount of time you want to spend out, with whom, when, how and for how long (and he should be willing to give you the same courtesy in his own case). If he isn't prepared to listen, then there is a problem. In my case, the guy involved was a psychopath with severe control issues (emotional vampire) and most of these were the signs, which used to jump from victim to victim (I talked to the exes) but with teh same m.o. and with higher intensity depending on various factors.
he tells me he's just worried about me more because i live on my own. so maybe this is all temporary. but i think a long talk is in order.
Yeah, a long talk. I would add, make sure that whatever he wants you to do (e.g. monitoring your email, or showing anger calmly) he does as well. Some of the requests as I've said, appear reasonable and can be compromised on, but if they are overwhelming demands, then its a problem. In a relationship, both people must change and compromise to some extent and I hope you guys can figure it out in time, maybe all it might take is some time, since I'm not sure how long you've known him for.
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PEace Sis SC
Just to clarify and to help me understand this situation better, does he follow the same rules more or less?
Yes he does. to the best of my knowledge he doesn't go out except with a select group of male friends. as far as him not staying out at all hours of the nite, he will stay out until 1 or 2 on occasion but it's pretty rare. i think that has nothing to do with me though he just gets pooped out from work and doesn't go out often. his reasoning is that its ok for him to stay out late because he's a man and can handle himself but if someone were to try and hurt me i wouldnt be able to. i'm not one to party all night so its not a problem for me. the only thing that bothers me is when he's holding a watch counting down the seonds and if i'm still out by 10 i get a good yelling. life happens and sometimes i just can't be home 10 pm sharp. like the other day i was eating at applebee's and we sat at the table late because it was busy and then got the food late. by 1015 he was calling me yelling so loud i could hear him without my phone. he literally told me to stop eating and leave without a second's delay. it's stuff like that that makes me feel like he doesn't respect me as an adult. even if he was not pleased with me still being out he could have heard me out and said alrite just finish up your food and excuse yourself. no he forced me to make a scene instead. and then i heard more yelling on my way home and some more the following day. and when he yells he thinks i can just magically stay calm and not get emotional back. then when i do start raising my voice i hear comments like " how dare you yell at me" "you have the nerve to raise your voice at me" "you have some guts to be able to yell at me" and when i tell him then you stop yelling too he says "you do something wrong and then you have the nerve to yell at me, you're too americanized you think you can raise your voice at a man".
Def control issues and insecurity here. I've been through this and the best advice I can give you (that people gave me at the time) is to ask him to trust you and that you are not going to do anything wrong and are in control of the situation. Accidents can always happen but that doesnt mean one should stay in a shell all their life. You live and learn and if someone cannot allow you to have normal breathing space, then you need to fight for it (metaphorically). Both of you can always compromise on things, like the amount of time you want to spend out, with whom, when, how and for how long (and he should be willing to give you the same courtesy in his own case). If he isn't prepared to listen, then there is a problem. In my case, the guy involved was a psychopath with severe control issues (emotional vampire) and most of these were the signs, which used to jump from victim to victim (I talked to the exes) but with teh same m.o. and with higher intensity depending on various factors.
He's pretty inflexible with things he puts his foot down on. he has the final word and won't even let me talk about it again if he already made up his mind about something. sometimes i feel like he treats me like a child instead of his adult partner with a full brain.
but i'll try to be persistent without being confrontating and see if eventually he starts to listen to me.
i know i'm painting a really ugly picture of him but its not all bad. in fact he's a really sweet and caring guy and i love him alot. it's just these things really need to get fixed. the problem is i've been slipping further into his control for the past 2 years and im not sure that there's much that can be changed now. lately i've been crying about things he does more than laughing or feeling happy for alot of reasons, not just his control issues. so i'm really looking to see some significant changes from him because the negatives are really piling high lately. there's alot i can tolerate and brush off but when the bad outweighs the good i don't know if there's much else i can do to fix things without him chipping in and showing some effort.
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Salam Sis Boost,
I think it's not OK that he call you up and disturb your dinner and yelling at you.
Sister, He is not show you any guts of respect.
Why you keep excuse him?
You love him right!?
But as sister lilyfleur said"there are many fish in the sea".
If he has that attitude already even if you aren't married yet then I think it will not be better rather worse.
I think it's time for you to declare your rights and point out that his behaviour isn't right at all.
You will become nervous and ruin your life with a spouse like him, are you really want to continue with him?
Talk with him first in a calm way, don't try to yell, point out his failure and that you cannot accept it. Then if he promise to stop this behaviour, you can put up some trail time, some couples of months and see how he is doing.
If he fell back on his behaviour again, you know what to do, and now you have been so good and gave him a fair chanse so you don't feel bad to quit with him.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
PEace Sis, all
Yes i am planning to have a long talk about everything when the time is right, asap.
How do you get a person over their insecurities? is there some kind of positive re-enforcement i can do with him to make him feel that i would never look to another? maybe if he feels more confident in our relationship these problems will decrease...
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PEace All
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He asks me not to go out with mixed company at night unless under certain circumstances.
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He asks me to come home before 10 pm.
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He asks that I not associate with my male colleagues more than on a professional basis.
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He asks that I not be over-friendly with people of the opposite sex because they take it the wrong way. He understands me very well. My reaction to a man who is showing me attention is to laugh. But my laughs are more out of shyness and not feeling comfortable with the situation. He recognizes that but wants me to stop doing it because it gives a man the green light to keep going.
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I have seen and been in such situations 1st hand. So I can relate.
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I personally will not like my wife to go out at night or day with mixed companions. Unless something like that was realy necessary. the question I would like to ask is what could such a necessary situation be? Imagine him being home expecting the wife to be with him, while his wife is out with male and female companions doing watever. Does that look justifiable? But she should certainly be allowed to go out in groups with female (well manared) companions.
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Coming home around 10pm well such a restriction should not be placed unless a man notices his woman is coming home late quite frequently. I mean 10mins late and he yells thats just not right. But then again if you were given such a restriction then you should be able to plan the resturant and food such that food is ready on time and you are ready to leave by 10pm.
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I think there he makes a reasonable request. why would you, when you have a partner?
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He could be right there. Women surely look a lot prettier when they smile/laugh. and it can give guys the green light that he is being successful in giving her a good time, which is how he gains a place in her. By the way if you think you shy and are not comfortable being in the situation then i suppose the right thing would be to not give out that laugh )
Hhm... I have seen where the female has male and female study groups as well as one on one with the opposite sex... and things go all fine and normal and acceptable, and then things proceed to inviting friends over for dinner or lunch, be it groups or be it atleast one. which i would think is a lil more than the professional dealings. I prefer if my woman dealt with female study groups, I would just be more comfortable thats all.
At the end of the day, as someone said, plenty of fish in the sea. So if you think this is not how you cant imagine urself being in future, then its time you leave him. And I can pretty much assure you guys like this dont improve.
The advice I will give you, is to do things for him more beyond what he asks you to do. that is one way he can gain trust on you. if that and other genuine efforts dont work then oh well you know what to do. Personally, my realtion didnt last, and such issues played a part in the split. So yeah its not a good thing.
when and if you are late home for any reason and he is yelling at you, have you tryied saying sorry pollitely and giving him a hug and explaining to him why you were late?
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Peace sis boost,
the only thing that bothers me is when he's holding a watch counting down the seonds and if i'm still out by 10 i get a good yelling. life happens and sometimes i just can't be home 10 pm sharp. like the other day i was eating at applebee's and we sat at the table late because it was busy and then got the food late. by 1015 he was calling me yelling so loud i could hear him without my phone. he literally told me to stop eating and leave without a second's delay.
I agree with you, it would bother anyone as thats just not on. That definitely needs to go.
and then i heard more yelling on my way home and some more the following day. and when he yells he thinks i can just magically stay calm and not get emotional back. then when i do start raising my voice i hear comments like " how dare you yell at me" "you have the nerve to raise your voice at me" "you have some guts to be able to yell at me" and when i tell him then you stop yelling too he says "you do something wrong and then you have the nerve to yell at me, you're too americanized you think you can raise your voice at a man".
uh oh. So he does yell and then expect you not to. That needs to go as well. Of course you would be emotional, anyone would lose their top at such overbearing behaviour. The thing is, when we 'fight', we need to work on the current issue not peripherals. Some people when they lose their temper, go into tangential issues to fuel their anger further, a vicious circle.
He's pretty inflexible with things he puts his foot down on. he has the final word and won't even let me talk about it again if he already made up his mind about something. sometimes i feel like he treats me like a child instead of his adult partner with a full brain.
That is the assessment I'm coming to as well after reading these posts, of course, there could be other reasons such as destructive 'over-protectiveness', 'possesiveness', from things in his past and present (stuff hes seen around), that makes him behave this way. Some men don't expect the women they are with to have an equal weight in the decision making, so they do feel irritated when the girl doesn't behave the way they expect her to.
i know i'm painting a really ugly picture of him but its not all bad. in fact he's a really sweet and caring guy and i love him alot. it's just these things really need to get fixed. the problem is i've been slipping further into his control for the past 2 years and im not sure that there's much that can be changed now. lately i've been crying about things he does more than laughing or feeling happy for alot of reasons, not just his control issues. so i'm really looking to see some significant changes from him because the negatives are really piling high lately. there's alot i can tolerate and brush off but when the bad outweighs the good i don't know if there's much else i can do to fix things without him chipping in and showing some effort.
I totally understand, and yes of course the negatives are highlighted here because thats the problem being discussed. It doesn't take away from the many good things you guys have in your relationship. I think you have the situation in hand partly because at least you've analysed what's wrong with it. The remaining thing is to get it through to his side. I would agree with sis majidah here on one point though, things usually do not get better after marriage, in fact they may get worse for some time before settling into a routine, with consistent compromise from both sides (and if its just one side...I know you don't want to be in that situation). So, is the good worth the bad, if he never changes? If he changes now, would he revert later? Questions I would be thinking about.
How to talk/communicate in a positive manner? Hmm, well firstly one might need to know if the insecurities are really all they are, or is it a symptom of a deeper problem, an issue where control and a certain way of life is expected and non-negotiable. Tbh, if he compromises and sticks by those, you have something to go on. If not, its just belief that things would work out and in many cases it doesn't, the signs were there and people ignored them. I would think that you might break it to him, in whichever way you think best, that things are not working out, you feel overwhelmed and under pressure and both need to do something to make it better (the both might lower his guard to accept a reasonable compromise). Maybe make a list of things you would like changed and those you are prepared to do and then go over it with what you think is reasonably acceptable. Listen to what he has to say, if he totally disagrees and sticks to his guns, I would advise you to run for it. If he is non-commital about it, make sure that the changes you think reasonable occur consistently for some time before you get married (maybe if he went through the compromise, he would see its not so bad and get over his jitters, if thats what they were).
He needs to see you as an equal in his life, a person who is and will share the rest of their lives together. If he can't accept you to have the same say in decisions you guys are going to take in your life together, how will it work out in the future? There are going to be so many heavy decisions that you will face in a marriage that if made one sidedly and with inflexibility from one person only would really have a profound effect on you down the line. Most women just give up or divorce in such a case. I hope these issues are resolved for both of you. Good luck.
