How can you tell if someone is becoming abusive?
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Peace,
I reiterate, IF IT FEELS LIKE ABUSE, IT'S ABUSE. Girl's need to be taught from a young age to trust their instincts.
BOOST "the only thing that bothers me is when he's holding a watch counting down the seonds and if i'm still out by 10 i get a good yelling. life happens and sometimes i just can't be home 10 pm sharp. like the other day i was eating at applebee's and we sat at the table late because it was busy and then got the food late. by 1015 he was calling me yelling so loud i could hear him without my phone. he literally told me to stop eating and leave without a second's delay."
"and then i heard more yelling on my way home and some more the following day. and when he yells he thinks i can just magically stay calm and not get emotional back. then when i do start raising my voice i hear comments like " how dare you yell at me" "you have the nerve to raise your voice at me" "you have some guts to be able to yell at me" and when i tell him then you stop yelling too he says "you do something wrong and then you have the nerve to yell at me, you're too americanized you think you can raise your voice at a man"."
"He's pretty inflexible with things he puts his foot down on. he has the final word and won't even let me talk about it again if he already made up his mind about something. sometimes i feel like he treats me like a child instead of his adult partner with a full brain."
"i know i'm painting a really ugly picture of him but its not all bad. in fact he's a really sweet and caring guy and i love him alot. it's just these things really need to get fixed. the problem is i've been slipping further into his control for the past 2 years and im not sure that there's much that can be changed now. lately i've been crying about things he does more than laughing or feeling happy for alot of reasons, not just his control issues. so i'm really looking to see some significant changes from him because the negatives are really piling high lately. there's alot i can tolerate and brush off but when the bad outweighs the good i don't know if there's much else i can do to fix things without him chipping in and showing some effort."
Boost sweetie, I've read a lot of your posts here, you're a very bright girl. And it's probably your intelligence that challenges this guy. He needs to do a lot of growing, but if you think for one moment that you're going to be the one to "help him", you're fighting a no-win battle. Step away from the situation and ask yourself, if one of your girlfriends were you, what advice would you give her? Stop second guessing yourself. I'm sure you care for this guy and it's tempting as women to want to fix men, to nurture them, but trust me, let it go. Be wise, listen to your gut, what's it saying? You deserve better.
peace,
sis lilyfleur -
Peace All
I really appreciate all of your advice.
I really do love him more than i love myself and i'd only be hurting myself if i leave him. i really would do anything for him. he's not as bad as he sounds. the things he asks of me to me is very reasonable and its not anything outside of my character to begin with so its not like i'm changing for him. its just his reactions lately have been questionable which he needs to work on. 10 minutes late because a franchise restaurant was busy shouldn't be the start of world war 3. i think he needs to trust my judgment more.
i have spoken to him without having "the talk" but just seeing his thoughts on stuff. He told me he trusts me fully but he's shaky on my judgment because he feels like i see the world thru rose tinted shades - like i always believe people are angels which to an extent is true about me. so he told me he feels like he needs to guide me and hold my hand thru that until i can do it on my own without him worrying about me. i've been taken for a ride too many times and i guess all those weird stories left him worried about me. which i guess is understandable. and it is something i know i need to work on.
my plan of action now is to see what can be fixed and what can't and then work from there.
i'll keep you all posted
and again i'm so thankful to have found people who don't really know me that give such sincere advice.
God Bless you all
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Peace Boost,
Sorry to catch on so late, but here's my two cents anyway. I'd like to give it to you straight since you're far awy from me and can't kick me in the nads
First and foremost, you have security issues to deal with. Like the law of attraction states, we attract what we focus on. This is why abused women always end up with more abusive men, one after another. And since I'm being totally honest, I don't think you're even near ready to be in a serious relationship. I've noticed throughout your posts how you mention things like "he knows what's best for me", or "maybe he's right", etc. It's great to be humble, but your humility should rest with God and your inner compass. If it's not telling you right from wrong, then you're not ready. Your issues combined with his issues are a recipe for disaster. I wouldn't suggest calling it quits, but I'd definitely recommend a good deal of space while you both grow.
Speaking of which, from what you've described, this guy is definitely into control and he's insecure. He has serious issues to work out. If he's not reading books or talking to people or showing any evidence of self-improvement, then the bad news is it will only get worse. People don't change until they recognize their weaknesses and strive to improve. If he's in denial or unwilling to listen, then run like the wind. You're young, intelligent, and I'm sure you're beautiful as well. You have your whole life ahead of you. You should be with someone who enhances your life, and you enhance his. That's not far-fetched. You shouldn't be worrying about how to fix someone. I'm sure you have enough baggage to deal with. We all do.
Peace,
Tay -
Salam Boost~ ((((HUG))))
I think its very brave and intelligent of you to ask, and question what is abuse. Sometimes people really don't know. You know, all the things your man asked of you...my husband asked me too, but that was in the beginning of our realtionship. I thought the same as you too, that perhaps he just wanted me to be a better woman, or more proper, or that he was looking out for me. But things change, and they only get worse. Let me tell you all the things I am not allowed to do now or else my husband will divorce me or worse
I am not allowed to wear certain clothing outside the home, unless he picks out what it is. I have to have his approval.
I am not allowed to wear perfume or lipstick or blush outside the home.
I am not allowed to eat in a resturant that has a bar.
I am not allowed to stay over night outside our home,even at my families or a single female friend.
I am not allowed to swim or go to a pool.
I am not allowed to watch certain programs,movies, or listen to music, he feels is inappropriate.
I am not allowed to go to my married friends homes, when their husbands are home.
I am not allowed to see the imam, without his wife present.
I am not allowed to go back to college as he feels it is unneccessary since he is financially well off, and he would rather I work from home, or in a business we would own.
I am not allowed to work out at a public gym.
I am not allowed to eat with my left hand.
Our future children would not be allowed to play musical instruments.
Our future children can only be named arabic muslim names.
Our future children can only go to islamic school or home taught.Let me tell you other things
I am called several times when out with coffee with a friend, I have to say the exact time I arrived, and when I will be home. I cannot be out for more than 4 hours. I sometimes have to take pictures from my phone camera, to prove where I am , and at times have had to take pictures of my hands to show I am wearing a wedding ring.
There are other things, that I wont share.
But let me tell you....it all starts out innocent, but this form of behavior only gets worse from my perspective, and worse..is that you will see they expect this of you, but they will not tolerate you wanting, asking or needing the same...they have hipocratic ideolgies, they expect this from you, but you cannot treat them the same.
Just my experience. Be careful...I am married, its way more complicated now.
Honor
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Hmm honor that sounds like a trust issue /
though somethings he doesn't allow aren't tooooo extreme like makeup and clothing lots of men are picky on that it's a jealousy thinghmm May Allah help you see the good and the bad and make it easier to distinguish and conclude what to do
Asalamu alaikum
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they have hipocratic ideolgies
I didn't know it was the medical profession that made them stoop so low , just kidding.
've noticed throughout your posts how you mention things like "he knows what's best for me", or "maybe he's right", etc. It's great to be humble, but your humility should rest with God and your inner compass. If it's not telling you right from wrong, then you're not ready. Your issues combined with his issues are a recipe for disaster.
I agree. also this
I really do love him more than i love myself and i'd only be hurting myself if i leave him. i really would do anything for him.
You shouldn't be willing to do anything for him! There should be a balance to love, it shouldn't be an extreme. You should have your lines and boundaries drawn or someone else will demand and take more than you should be giving, eventually ruining the relationship or making you constantly compromise. By that time however, it might be too late or things might get more drastic than they already are and require more correctional work to get back to a sane level.
Best thing imo, take lots of time before getting married.
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PEace all
thanks sis honor for sharing your story with us, i know its probably not an easy thing to talk about
bro tay, thanks for your advice but it really hurt me. i know thats not what you wanted so no need to apologize. i may be messed up and he may be messed up but we're committed to each other and in a committed relationship we work things out and don't just give up. i know you said "it doesn't mean you should call it quits" but the rest of your post basically alluded to that.
maybe it's just a difference of opinion as bro tanveer and bro paradoxia said. to me, asking that i don't hang around mixed company and come home at a decent time isn't a horrible thing to ask of me. the only thing that bothers me is lately his reactions have been too harsh. he doesn't abuse me. i think perhaps i got influenced by the friend i was with who is neither from my culture or from my deen who witnessed what happened that night in the restaurant and told me "this is abuse. you make too many excuses for him. you weren't doing anything wrong you should just call him and tell him i'm out and when i'm done with the night i'll go home and we can talk then". she gave me this whole lecture and i started to think maybe she's right. but quite honestly, if i was with a guy who didn't care who i was with or when i was coming home i wouldn't feel loved. so i don't think i'm an abused woman who goes from one abusive man to another. i think to my friend if she were in the same relationship, she would feel abused. but i really don't.
i have an issue with his reaction and that is fixable. i'm willing to do anything for him because he has changed alot for me.
he rarely gets drunk now and when he does it's just a drink or two, which is something that bothered me in the past.
he used to hide his problems from me and now he openly shares them which was a huge issue for quite some time.
he talks to me more in general, which he used to be a very non-talkative person which drove me up the wall.
when we fought before, he would shut off his phone and not talk to me for days leaving me really miserable because i need to talk things thru and get over it. now he knows how tortured i was by that and he doesn't do it. he'll talk as much as i need to.so there are improvements on his side and those are on top of all the sweet qualities he has coming into the relationship. i think its unfair to say that because i'm messed up and he's messed up that we're destined for failure. if everyone thought that way nobody would be in any relationship. it takes a lifetime to work on your issues and sort thru them and even then some people never get over things. please don't think i'm picking on you, bro tay cuz others basically said the same thing on this thread so i'm sort of just addressing everyone who said that. although i dont know for some reason when you said i got hurt more.
in fact, everytime i open this thread i cry and its taking a toll on me. i'm thinking of just locking the topic but i don't want to be rude.
what i learned from this is that i don't believe i'm being abused. i think you all are right in that it could potentially get ugly. and i think you all are right in that we should take our time before we get married to work thru more problems and make sure things stay within the normal range. but i also think it's worth saving. if you all knew the things he's done for me just out of pure giving without expecting a thing in return you would see what i see.
anyways i feel like i'm speaking out of a not calm place and i'm being defensive and weak so i'm gonna end this post. you all are more than welcome to continue any discussion related to this topic or give more advice because i don't think its fair or right to close the thread down when others can benefit from the discussion. but when i feel more stable, i'll open and re-read this thread as well as any new posts.
again thank you all, including you bro tay.
salam
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Peace Boost,
i know you said "it doesn't mean you should call it quits" but the rest of your post basically alluded to that.
Sis, I don't know the situation. I can only go by what you've told us. The caveat in my advice was if he's not improving, then things will only get worse. Look at honor's brave post. I've also seen it happen firsthand. But if he is improving, as you've recenty revealed, then I'd say there's reason for optimism. If you're both working on yourselves and have established clear channels of communication, then the sky's the limit and you two can be storybook.
Peace, and best wishes,
Tay -
in fact, everytime i open this thread i cry and its taking a toll on me. i'm thinking of just locking the topic but i don't want to be rude.
Don't cry. ) Sorry for the lil off course here. But I'm wondering from everyone here that is giving Boost advice, how many are actually in a committed relationship and how long?
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Salam,
I have been married during 16 years and now I have been divorced 1 year.
So i think I know i'm pretty familiar with relationships and marriages
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Hmm honor that sounds like a trust issue /
though somethings he doesn't allow aren't tooooo extreme like makeup and clothing lots of men are picky on that it's a jealousy thinghmm May Allah help you see the good and the bad and make it easier to distinguish and conclude what to do
Asalamu alaikum
Salam Sarah~
No offense intended, but these actions and behaviors I described are forms of abuse. Not trust issues.These forms of behavior, and controlling ways, are not only unhealthy and unfounded, but completely intolerable. I am not sure if you condone this, or make excuses, or maybe you just have the same mindset, as it seems, but one can only hope that someday you will see clearly in this, and not be disillusioned to be on the side of a perpatrator.
Peace~
Honor
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Peace sis "honor", "BOOST" and all,
Ive gone through your posts and this looks like Taliban/sunni/shia bull crap to me. Its all extreme behaviour and your right it cannot be tolerated at all. I wonder why any woman would tolerate this for so long. brickwall It only gives those crazy men more power. Make an end to it tight now plzzzzzzz. GOD Bless! -
hhm.. interesting restrictins honor. I would have to agree there that that is heading certainly towards abuse. hhm... i hate to ask but i would anyway, why are you then sticking with such a man?
Salam paradoxia~
Are you referring to me and my situation? If so, let me tell you...I do not condone his behavior, this is why he is not living with me right now, because I do not submit to his behavior and abusive tyranny in religion. I am currently, in a legal process, to seek divorce. I have had to come to terms with all of the consequences of being abused and in an abusive situation. Yes, at times I feel like holding on..but I know that this is just my fear, and sadness and also my hope that somehow he would change, but I know the truth is, that after all the actions and behaviors he has exhibited, he will not change. Besides..he has no respect for me, this is why the abuse only gets worse. That is what I wanted Boost to know, was that once you accept this, and become confused, and stay in this type of relationship, they see you dont respect yourself, and they dont respect you, and the control, anger and tyranny only get worse.
Honor
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No offence taken, though I believe you misinterpreted me. Obviously not all the things are trust issues but I can say some things are. I?ll tell you my perspective if you think it?s naive or whatever well that is you and it?s your choice. My mindset isn?t the same rather I look at it in a different perspective; looking at why someone would do or ask of such a thing. I?m not conditioned to think it?s a trust issue. The trust issue doesn?t also directly involve you it can be the others around you.
I am not allowed to wear certain clothing outside the home, unless he picks out what it is. I have to have his approval.
I am not allowed to wear perfume or lipstick or blush outside the home.To me that?s a jealousy thing. If it doesn?t breach Islamic conduct then he has gone out of line. It doesn?t make it abuse in my opinion.
I am not allowed to eat in a resturant that has a bar.
I am not allowed to stay over night outside our home,even at my families or a single female friend.
To me that?s a bit extreme.I am not allowed to swim or go to a pool.
A jealousy thing.
I am not allowed to watch certain programs,movies, or listen to music, he feels is inappropriate.
That?s a controlling thing, and extreme thinking
I am not allowed to go to my married friends homes, when their husbands are home.
That?s a trust issue (maybe he doesn?t trust the husbands or you being with them)
I am not allowed to see the imam, without his wife present.
That?s an extreme view and trust issueI am not allowed to go back to college as he feels it is unneccessary since he is financially well off, and he would rather I work from home, or in a business we would own.
Ego, trust issue also extreme thinking. As far as I have been taught and know Education is a good thing and is prescribed and likened. Generally when you have a child the mother spends most of the time with their baby, the baby learns most from their mother, so why not have a good education to teach the baby more and make the learning enriched.. anyway education isn?t about making money though it can help and sometimes it doesn?t help at all. It?s for your personally benefit. Maybe he will feel a low self esteem knowing you can or will earn more than him so he has the pride in knowing that he earns more?
I?m not defending what he is saying so don?t take it wrong, I?m just thinking of the ?why?s? personally I think education is important and should be allowed, if my partner wouldn?t let me continue or start education then I wouldn?t consider a guy like that.
I am not allowed to work out at a public gym.
That?s a jealousy thing maybe a trust thing too, there is all female gyms does he have a problem with that too?
I am not allowed to eat with my left hand.
That?s just extreme view
Our future children would not be allowed to play musical instruments.
What would he do if they did? That?s just a strict view
Our future children can only be named arabic muslim names.
That?s just his pride from cultural heritage and an extreme view.
Our future children can only go to islamic school or home taught.
That?s his personal opinion, though I believe if you?re married you work in a companionship that you both agree on things off course you wont always though that?s why there is a thing called compromising and sometimes it never works so sometimes people part. I wouldn?t teach my kids at home, I?ll get to frustrating sometimes you need time away from kids, besides it?s important for kids to socialise with all people not just Islamic muslims or your family.
I?m not defending what he is saying, all I said was it sounds like a trust issue and some are not toooooo extreme. So saying some ?not all? indicates not all he is doing/saying is right. Anyway it depends how you like to live life maybe you?re intolerable to things he asks for? so in that case it feels suffocating to you and hence makes you feel it is abuse.
I didn?t say he isn?t abusing nor that he is. I don?t know what goes on behind closed doors, nor is it any of my business. So sorry if you felt I was defending him. Inshallah Allah swt grants you with a man who understands you and will be passive to your wishes and not so strict or ?abusive?.
Asalamu alaikum.
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No offence taken, though I believe you misinterpreted me. Obviously not all the things are trust issues but I can say some things are. I?ll tell you my perspective if you think it?s naive or whatever well that is you and it?s your choice. My mindset isn?t the same rather I look at it in a different perspective; looking at why someone would do or ask of such a thing. I?m not conditioned to think it?s a trust issue. The trust issue doesn?t also directly involve you it can be the others around you.
I am not allowed to wear certain clothing outside the home, unless he picks out what it is. I have to have his approval.
I am not allowed to wear perfume or lipstick or blush outside the home.I am not allowed to eat in a resturant that has a bar.
I am not allowed to stay over night outside our home,even at my families or a single female friend.
To me that?s a bit extreme.I am not allowed to swim or go to a pool.
A jealousy thing.
I am not allowed to watch certain programs,movies, or listen to music, he feels is inappropriate.
That?s a controlling thing, and extreme thinking
I am not allowed to go to my married friends homes, when their husbands are home.
That?s a trust issue (maybe he doesn?t trust the husbands or you being with them)
I am not allowed to see the imam, without his wife present.
That?s an extreme view and trust issueI am not allowed to go back to college as he feels it is unneccessary since he is financially well off, and he would rather I work from home, or in a business we would own.
Ego, trust issue also extreme thinking. As far as I have been taught and know Education is a good thing and is prescribed and likened. Generally when you have a child the mother spends most of the time with their baby, the baby learns most from their mother, so why not have a good education to teach the baby more and make the learning enriched.. anyway education isn?t about making money though it can help and sometimes it doesn?t help at all. It?s for your personally benefit. Maybe he will feel a low self esteem knowing you can or will earn more than him so he has the pride in knowing that he earns more?
I?m not defending what he is saying so don?t take it wrong, I?m just thinking of the ?why?s? personally I think education is important and should be allowed, if my partner wouldn?t let me continue or start education then I wouldn?t consider a guy like that.
I am not allowed to work out at a public gym.
That?s a jealousy thing maybe a trust thing too, there is all female gyms does he have a problem with that too?
I am not allowed to eat with my left hand.
That?s just extreme view
Our future children would not be allowed to play musical instruments.
What would he do if they did? That?s just a strict view
Our future children can only be named arabic muslim names.
That?s just his pride from cultural heritage and an extreme view.
Our future children can only go to islamic school or home taught.
That?s his personal opinion, though I believe if you?re married you work in a companionship that you both agree on things off course you wont always though that?s why there is a thing called compromising and sometimes it never works so sometimes people part. I wouldn?t teach my kids at home, I?ll get to frustrating sometimes you need time away from kids, besides it?s important for kids to socialise with all people not just Islamic muslims or your family.
I?m not defending what he is saying, all I said was it sounds like a trust issue and some are not toooooo extreme. So saying some ?not all? indicates not all he is doing/saying is right. Anyway it depends how you like to live life maybe you?re intolerable to things he asks for? so in that case it feels suffocating to you and hence makes you feel it is abuse.
I didn?t say he isn?t abusing nor that he is. I don?t know what goes on behind closed doors, nor is it any of my business. So sorry if you felt I was defending him. Inshallah Allah swt grants you with a man who understands you and will be passive to your wishes and not so strict or ?abusive?.
Asalamu alaikum.
Salam Aliekum Sarah~
Sorry If I sounded harsh, I understand what you mean, and I see how you can see some of these as trust or jealousy issues, I know you are just being neutral , so as not to be one-sided, and I appreciate it.
But you said To me that?s a jealousy thing. If it doesn?t breach Islamic conduct then he has gone out of line. It doesn?t make it abuse in my opinion.
So, my question to you is..what do you think the islamic conduct is, how is your perception defined?
Also, even that some of these can be considered trust or jealousy issues, that is irrelavant to the point. For starters, even if you have a trust issue,this type of demanding and expectations are abusive. Just because someone is jealous or has issues about trust, doesn't condone their opinions of extreme rules and expectations. That would be like a husband who verbally berates his wife, because she has alot of friends and is really popular, and it makes him so uncomfortable and insecure that he starts to tell her how she cant be friends with that many people. So he has a jealousy issue, that doesnt make his actions just. You see what I mean?
Anyway, I understand you. Just know, that I am speaking from direct experience, this type of expectations and behavior is a warning of worse to come.
Honor
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Recently, a minister got assasinated in Pakistan due to her working with prostitutes and not wearing the veil. The excuse was, women should not be in positions of leadership and dress 'properly'. Reading the news, the commentary from certain people was, we don't agree with killing as thats pretty extreme but yeah, women should not be in such positions doing such things...this is the mentality.
Women should not wear makeup, women should stay at home, women should not associate with the opposite sex, women should wear a certain type of dress, women should not look or talk to men if they can help it, women should look to their men for guidance in everything (because we all know just the fact that they are men makes them appropriate for the position of guide, women don't have the braincells that men do), no need for women to be educated much or at all as they won't be working if the men have anything to say about it (the men that 'allow' women to get educated and work are then subsequently looked down on and anything happening to the women seen as partly their fault too). The repurcussions of doing this stuff most times in many cultures is totally extreme. Its all about control and possesion. This is the way of thinking that has been prevalent in most cultures since the plough came on the scene (women became the weaker sex and dependent on men). It's been carrying on since then in some shape and form. If women don't start thinking for themselves and realise good from the bad, realise that they are independent too in some way and don't need to depend on someone else all their lives for all their needs and wants, we would be getting somewhere.
On the flip side, it's dangerous to pioneer these thoughts in a society that believes differently, but someone has to do it and most times end up killed for it. We call ourselves living in the modern age and all that, when our minds are still shackled in the dark ages. This is a general statement, not targeted towards anyone here, I'm just frustrated by this mentality and the way women are enslaved by it.
Btw honor, hippocratic was referring to the hippocratic oath and to those who are interested, I've been in a commited relationship for 8 years now.
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Salam Savage Carrot~
You tell it like it is Girl!! jedi AMEN! Good for you, I am so sick of it too! Sheesh~, it seems that there are so many excuses for this mentality, there is no excuse! That was my whole point. Its just out of control. God, I think, let him have mercy and forgiveness on me if I am wrong, I think God, would be so sad and deeply irritated that men, and some women have convulted the truth with this sickness of making women these lewd, seducters who, need to be imprisoned by clothing and certain restrictions, not given to those of man, just so we can appease them, and appear to be modest and obedient. Its disgusting. I wish just one day, we were men in spirit, not bodies, and we told men, they had to stay at home, and not argue with us, and not look pretty for fear of being immodest and not go out to certain places ...yada yada yada. I am not trying to bash men, but geez...we women have alot of crap we have to deal with from men and their total insecurity. Because lets all admit, it was men who wrote the hadith, and men all over the world who have come up with ways to oppress women,and make them submit to their insecurities. God would be ashamed. For it is women that bare men, and women that raise them, and women that love them etc. What a wonderful way to show thanks!!!! Sarcasm Sarcasm. brickwall
Pooey elektro, on all those tyrannical, immature, abusive, insecure, idiots that have to think and bully ways into women being oppressed.
Again no offense, to the loving, supportive, healthy, mature, equal men..who promote individuality, while still calmly and realistically asking boundaries of their women, at least you know what you ask for, they should expect of you too.
Honor
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Peace Nadia,
Super post! bravo
to those who are interested, I've been in a commited relationship for 8 years now.
You got me by one year!
I can honestly say this
We've never raised our voices in disagreement.
We've never needed "rules" or "boundaries" to keep each other in check.
We communicate our feelings.
We trust each other to do the right thing.
She goes on vacation with the girls every year.
We give each other the benefit of the doubt.
And she's my best friend.Peace,
Tay