Ma Malakat Emanakum" A Refutation to Brother Ayman;s understanding
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This specie" MA Malakat Emnakum" were Aliens who once lived in Jupiter's moon EUROPA,due to some decease their males could not impregnate the females, some of these females arrived on earth during 7th century AD in Arabian continent. Almighty allowed sex temporally with these alien females so that they could go back and continue with reproduction till their Males became healthy. some of them were kidnapped and married by Homo sapians and they stayed back, I wonder where they are ?
peaceThose are the feminists.
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Peace all,
It is clear from the above discussions that according to al-qur'aan, no sexual intercourse is lawfully permitted between a man and a woman without marriage (see 425, 2236-237).
There is no mention of intercourse in 235 or 7029. What is mentioned is guarding our private parts. It seems that we are being commanded to guard our private parts from everyone except spouses and "ma malakat aymanukum". These verses do not refer to sex with spouses and MMA but allow exposure of private parts in front of spouses and MMA.
The words used for slave in al-qur'aan are "imaa" (see 2432) and "raqaba" (see 492, 589, 583). "Ma malakat aymanukum" does not refer to slaves as used in al-qur'aan. There is no oath of any kind involved in slavery.
"Ma malakat aymanukum" in 424 is a subset of "mohsanat" because of the word "illa"/except between "mohsanat" and "ma malakat aymanukum". Hence the "ma malakat aymanukum" mentioned in 424 are also "mohsanat" and a special category of "mohsanat". Now the question is what does "mohsanat" and "ma malakat aymanukum" mean in 424-5, 235-6 and 7029-30.
"Ma malakat aymanukum" as mentioned in 424 cannot be referring to the married believing women referred to in 6010 (the ones married to disbelievers but emigrated to believers) because the procedure for marrying these special cases of married women involves returning the dowry to their disbelieving husbands, but 424 does not mention anything about returning dowries. "Mohsanat" in 424 cannot be referring ONLY to married people, but is referring to a wider category of people, because "married" does not fit every occurrence of "mohsanat".
Mohammad Asad's explanation quoted by brother Arnold seems good but has following three problems
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He translates "mohsanat" as "married women" in 424 and as "free women" in 425 which is not consistent. There has to be a consistent meaning of "mohsanat" which covers both these categories.
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His argument that "aw" can also mean "that is" needs to be supported from a Classical Arabic dictionary or similar usage elsewhere in al-qur'aan. The reference to 2562 as an example of "aw" meaning "that is" does not make sense because "thanking" The God is different from "remembering" The God.
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If MMA in 424 means "those whom you rightfully possess through marriage" then a better word would have been "azwajukum", as that is the word The God uses everywhere for "those rightfully possessed through marriage".
In my understanding, the following meanings of "mohsanat" and "ma malakat aymanukum" can be consistently used everywhere without causing any contradictions in al-qur'aan
All women are protected according to al-qur'aan and are divided into "mohsanat" and "fatayat" (mohsanat are contrasted to fatayat in 425)
MOHSANAT self-protected
FATAYAT parent/guardian protected
MOHSANAT can be divided into 3 categories
- self-protected independent (single, divorced, widowed)
- self-protected married
- self-protected engaged to you (MMA due to oath of engagement)
In 424 "mohsanat" refers to all these 3 categories because of the context, and in 425 refers to category #3 i.e. the MMA from the muhsanat.
MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM "those whom you rightfully possess" or "those you are committed to by oath".
The oath could be of engagement, adoption, or financial support, depending on the context of usage. MMA could be from "mohsanat" or from "fatayat" (425).
There are two types of family relations in al-qur'aan
- "Ulu al korba" Those related to you biologically.
2 "Ma malakat aymanukum" Those related to you by your oath.
In the case of a single man this is the oath of engagement to marry. In the case of a custodian this is the oath of adoption or financial support. Following are the list of verses where this expression occurs and the context of each occurrence
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Who you made an oath to marry (43, 424, 425, 236, 3350, 3352, 7030)
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Who you made an oath to adopt/take custody of (2431, 2433, 2458, 3355)
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Who you made an oath to financially support in general (433, 436, 1671, 302
Thus the context determines the kind of oath.
The above can be summarised in the following table form
MOHSANAT FATAYAT (self-protected) (parent/guardian protected) Independent Married MMA MMA Non MMA ---------------------------- Single Divorced Widowed
Thus 424 would be translated as follows
424 And the self-protected from the women, except those committed to you by oath.................
In the context of this verse the oath would be oath of engagement, and this verse would mean that one is forbidden to get romantically involved with any self-protected person unless one is committed to her/him by oath of engagement, thus making engagement MANDATORY before marriage. This makes sense because then the couple will have time to get to know each other well before getting married. With this understanding, 235-6 and 7029-30 would mean that one cannot expose their private parts to anyone except their spouses and fiances. This would allow romantic involvement with one's fiance without intercourse, in my opinion.
The readers are urged not to blindly follow anyone's understanding but to verify everything for themselves by using their own minds and reason and to study all the views and then follow the best to arrive at their understandings, while asking The God for guidance.
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
The God knows the best and may He guide us to the truth and explain His verses to us.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.
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Peace bro Sikandar, all,
It is a huge improvement from having sex outside marriage with so called "sex slaves" that you have proposed !
I am open to any better understandings. Can anyone quote the Classical Arabic dictionary meanings of "aw", whether it includes the meaning of "that is" ? Then Mohammad Asad's translation of 7029-30 and 235-6 will make more sense.
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peace bro .
word by word translation of MA Malakat emnakum is,
what you posses in your right hand,
not
those whom you right fully posses
or
those who are comitted to you by oath.another aya in support of the argument that they are a different catagory from servants'
24-31 And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess,(MA MALAKAT EMNAKUM) or the male servants(TABAIEENA) not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.
Above ayat clearly differntiates between the two.
30-28 HE sets forth for you a parable concerning yourselves. Have you, among those whom your right hands possess(Ma malakat emnakum), partners in what WE have provided for you so that you become equal sharers therein, and you fear them as you fear each other ? Thus do WE explain the Signs to a people who understand
Here God is sighting an example to people who elevate idols at par with God , he is asking them this question?
That do you do this ? obviously , the answer would be NO , God is drawing a parallal , to make people understand(see previous and next verses)peace
sikandar -
Peace tanveer ,All
Peace all,
It is clear from the above discussions that according to al-qur'aan, no sexual intercourse is lawfully permitted between a man and a woman without marriage (see 425, 2236-237).
??? I dont find any such thing written in these Ayats.
These ayas are setting out the sub rules, in case of a divorce in the agreement called NIKAH
Peace all,
There is no mention of intercourse in 235 or 7029. What is mentioned is guarding our private parts. It seems that we are being commanded to guard our private parts from everyone except spouses and "ma malakat aymanukum". These verses do not refer to sex with spouses and MMA but allow exposure of private parts in front of spouses and MMA.
23-5,6--70-29,30 And those who guard their private parts, Except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess -- for these surely are not to be blamed,
What is common between a ZOUJ and MMA? that you share your private parts with? And for what you share your private parts with MMA ??? ,, the only other answer could be my Alien theory.
peace
sikandar -
Peace Sikandar, all,
word by word translation of MA Malakat emnakum is,
what you posses in your right hand,
not
those whom you right fully posses
or
those who are comitted to you by oath.Ya-Miim-Nun = right side, right, right hand, oath. (Lane's Lexicon, Volume 8, page 31
HENCE "Ma malakat aymanukum" = "those whom your right hands possess" = "those you are committed to by oath".
I dont find any such thing written in these Ayats.
These ayas are setting out the sub rules, in case of a divorce in the agreement called NIKAH
The following verse tells us clearly that we have to MARRY either the "mohsanat" or the "ma malakat aymanukum" from the "fatayat", and not have illicit sex with them. 424 says the same thing i.e. "to be protected/married and not for illicit sex".
425 And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the believing self-protected women, then from those committed to you by oath of the believing parent/guardian protected women. God is more aware of your faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with the permission of their parents and give them their dowries in kindness; to be protected, not for illicit sex or taking lovers. If they become protected, then any of them who comes with lewdness shall have half the punishment of what is for the independent women of the retribution. This is for those who fear hardship from among you. But if you are patient it is better for you, and God is Forgiver, Merciful.
The following two verses indicate that sexual intercourse comes AFTER marriage, because it is possible to divorce after marriage but before sexual intercourse
2236 There is no sin upon you if you divorce the women before having sexual intercourse with them, or before setting the dowry for them. Let them have recompense, the rich according to his means, and the poor according to his means. Recompense which is in goodness, a responsibility for those in kindness.
2237 And if you divorce them before having sexual intercourse with them, but you have already set the dowry for them; then you must give half of what you have agreed, unless they forgive or the guardian over the marriage contract forgives. And if you forgive, it is closer to righteousness. And do not forget the favor between you; God is Seer over what you do.This combined with even coming near lewdness and fornication/adultery being forbidden leaves no doubt that sexual intercourse between a man and a woman is permitted only after marriage.
6151 Say "Come let me recite for you what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it/public or subtle/private; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
1732 And do not come near adultery/fornication, for it is a sin and an evil path.
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Peace Bro
Could you explain , how do you posses someone with this oath business which allowes you to have sex with them or even by your least standards, share your private body parts (which you only do with your Zauj)?
When God allowes you to have sex with them ,, then it is no more called Adultry, Fornication or illicit sex.
peace
sikandar -
Peace Sikandar,
Could you explain , how do you posses someone with this oath business which allowes you to have sex with them or even by your least standards, share your private body parts (which you only do with your Zauj)?
I already explained this in earlier posts on this thread. In addition to that, I never said one is allowed to have sex without nikah with MMA or "share" one's private parts with them. This shows you are not really paying attention to my posts !!
Please read my posts again and pay attention to what I have written in the following two posts
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13789.msg118323#msg118323
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13789.msg118347#msg118347
When God allowes you to have sex with them ,, then it is no more called Adultry, Fornication or illicit sex.
The God allows sexual intercourse between a man and a woman ONLY AFTER MARRIAGE (NAKAH) in al-qur'aan.
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Salaam,
This is why in those verses the WA does NOT mean "Your spouses WA-'OR' -'AND' MME. The WA here means 'As they are'.
Let Muhammed Asad again explain it to you
- and who are mindful of their chastity, 12
(30) with any but their spouses - that is, those whom they rightfully possess - 13 for then, behold, they are free of all blame,
12 Lit., "who guard their private parts". l3 See the identical passage in 235-7, as well as the corresponding note 3, in which I have fully explained the reasons for my rendering of the phrase aw ma malakat aymanuhum as "that is, those whom they rightfully possess ". As regards this interpretation, see al Razi's comments on 424, as well as one of the alternative interpretations of that verse advanced by Tabari on the authority of lbn Abbas and Mujahid.
Let's go to 235-7
(5) and who are mindful of their chastity, (6) with any but their spouses - that is, those whom they rightfully possess
?, etc. (Cf. a similar construction 25 62 - ??for him who has the will to take thought
-that is , has the will to be grateful?.)] for then, behold, they are free of all blame, (7) whereas such as seek to go beyond that are truly transgressors; ( 8 ) and who are faithful to their trusts and to their pledges, (9) and who guard their prayers . (10) It is they, they who shall be the inheritors (2311) that will inherit the paradise; therein shall they abide.
And
4 24
And all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess * this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions,** taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything *** behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise.*The term muhsanah signifies literally "a woman who is fortified ", and carries three senses (1) "a married woman", (2) "a chaste woman", and (3) "a free woman". According to almost all the authorities, al-muhsanat denotes in the above context "married women". As for the expression ma malakat aymanukum ("those whom your right hands possess", i.e., "those whom you rightfully possess", it is often taken to mean female slaves captured in a war in God's cause (see in this connection 867, and the corresponding note).
The commentators who choose this meaning hold that such slave-girls can be taken in marriage irrespective of whether they have husbands in the country of their origin or not. However, quite apart from the fundamental differences of opinion, even among the Companions of the Prophet, regarding the legality of such a marriage, some of the most outstanding commentators hold the view that ma malakat aymanukum denotes here "women whom you rightfully possess through wedlock"; thus Razi in his commentary on this verse, and Tabari in one of his alternative explanations (going back to ?Abd Allah ibn ?Abbas, Mujahid, and others). Razi, in particular, points out that the reference to "all married women" (al-muhsanat min an-nisa?), coming as it does after the enumeration of prohibited degrees of relationship, is meant to stress the prohibition of sexual relations with any woman other than one's lawful wife.
**Lit., "with your possessions" - i.e., offering them, as the Law demands, an appropriate dower.
***Cf. verse 4 of this surah, and the corresponding note.
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Peace Warner,
Farjun (Pl. Furuj) - Pudenda (sex organ); chastity, space between legs (of horse or mare), part/s of a person (male/female) indecent to expose, external portions of the organs of generation . Also the posterior pudendum because it is a place of opening, of between the legs.
Lane Lexicon, V6, p 143, 144, 145
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Peace Tanveer , Siki
I am repeating the earlier question since I did not get an answer. Do you see any connection between the aFa / bestow/ bestowed upon in 841 and in 3350. ? wa ma_ malakat yaminuka mim ma_ afa_ al la_hu alaika?
8 41
Pickthall And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the kinsmen (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer; if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our slave on the Day of Discrimination, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is Able to do all things.Wa'lamu_ annama_ ganimtum min syai'in fa anna lilla_hi khumusahu_ wa lir rasu_li wa lizil qurba_ wal yata_ma_ wal masa_kini wabnis sabili in kuntum a_mantum billa_hi wa ma_ anzalna_ 'ala_ 'abdina_ yaumal furqa_ni yaumal taqal jam'a_n(i), walla_hu 'ala_ kulli syai'in qadir(un).
3350
Pickthall O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncles on the mother's side emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage, a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers. We are aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.Ya_ ay yuhan nabiy yu in na_ ahlalna_ laka azwa_jakal la_til uju_rahun na wa ma_ malakat yaminuka mim ma_ afa_ al la_hu alaika wa bana_ti am mika wa bana_ti am ma_tika wa bana_ti ha-lika wa bana_ti ha_la_tikal la_ti ha_jarna ma'ak wamra atam muminatan iw wahabat nafsaha_ lin nabiy yi in ara_dan nabiy yu ay yastankihaha_ ha_lishatal laka min du_nil muminin qad alimna_ ma_ faradna_ alaihim fi azwa_jihim wa ma_ malakat aima_nuhum likaila_ yaku_na alaika haraj wa ka_nal la_hu gafu_rur rahima_
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Peace Warner,
841 is "fa" and 3350 is "afa", they are not the same.
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Peace Tanveer
Sorry for the confusion. Please look at the 596-7 in conjunction with 841 and 3350 with regard to which ?Allah as bestowed upon? and which is ?gained as spoils of war?. Also notice the same set of people the gains are distributed in the 2 verses. Chapters 8 and 59 deal quite a lot on the subject of war and gains of war.
59 6 Yusuf Ali
What Allah has bestowed on His Apostle (and taken away) from them for this ye made no expedition with either cavalry or camelry but Allah gives power to His apostles over any He pleases and Allah has power over all things.Wa ma_ afa_al la_hu ala_ rasu_lihi minhum fama_ aujaftum alaihi min hailiw wa la_ rika_biw wa la_kin nal la_ha yusal lithu rusulahu_ ala_ may yasya_ wal la_hu ala_ kuli sai in qadir
59 7Yusuf Ali
What Allah has bestowed on His Apostle (and taken away) from the people of the townships belongs to Allah to His Apostle and to kindred and orphans the needy and the wayfarer; in order that it may not (Merely) make a circuit between the wealth among you. So take what the Apostle assigns to you and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.Ma afa_ al la_hu ala_ rasu_lihi min ahlil qura_ falil la_hi wa lir rasu_li walizil qurba_ wal yata_ma_ wal masa_kini wab nis sabili kaila_ yaku_na du_latambainal agniya_i minkum wa ma_ a_ta_kumur rasu_lu fakuzu_ hu wa ma_naha_kum anhu fantahu_ wataqul la_h in nal la_ha sadidul iqa_b
8 41Yusuf Ali
And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war) a fifth share is assigned to Allah and to the apostle and to near relatives orphans the needy and the wayfarer if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the day of testing the day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.Wa'lamu_ annama_ ganimtum min syai'in fa anna lilla_hi khumusahu_ wa lir rasu_li wa lizil qurba_ wal yata_ma_ wal masa_kini wabnis sabili in kuntum a_mantum billa_hi wa ma_ anzalna_ 'ala_ 'abdina_ yaumal furqa_ni yaumal taqal jam'a_n(i), walla_hu 'ala_ kulli syai'in qadir(un).
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Yasin
good to have you on board brothercould you try and fit in Mohd Asad's explanation of "THAT IS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS" IN
24-31, and 33-55 and see weather it justifies here?
For example
33-55 It is no sin for them (thy wives) to converse freely) with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or the sons of their sisters or of their own women,(that is rightfully theirs) or their slaves. O women! Keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is ever Witness over all things.
24-31 is same
it is reasonable to assume, that slavery has been in practice , and history tells us that even mohammad had slaves , what nomenclature does the quran use for slaves other than MMA? any ideas
peace
sikandar -
Salam Siki,
Cross-reference is the key to understand words, but sometimes the context overrides the cross-reference meaning to avoid contradictions with other verses. The Quran is its own dictionary, not only through cross-reference, but also through context.
Sex is only legal through marriage, which is logical.