Jonah---Never swallowed by a whale
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What you said about the Deen, can this be easily understood by commoners? What I mean is that the masses then, with no proper education and understanding, was deen come down to target intellectuals only?
I am asking this because when you take for example a common person then or even now, the follow to deen is understood as following rituals. Any comment on how your understanding can be easily understood by every one with ease and was this the purpose of God rather than millions of people on earth in all times, understood God through rituals... does this means all of those people wasted their life... what would become of them in the next life.
cheers
Hi Fusion,
I could, but it is nothing public right now because I cannot safely guarantee there are not interpretation errors which could be avoided merely by rereading the same passage several times and reflecting. I have had little to no revision of what has been rendered so far.
The English rendition is also following Arabic sentence structure (albeit correct English word order but the clauses follow Arabic style) to retain faithfulness to the original script so can be a bit dull to read to not say the least. By the official release I plan on also publishing a paraphrased version that sounds okay in English. One issue is Arabic omits many pronouns, for example, in a relative clause and it is not always possible to remain totally faithful to the Arabic by not inserting any words however limited to mainly pronouns.
Regardless, at whole it gives a different image of the faith system which not surprisingly (to me) looks somehow Gnostic to the style.
The "deen" is easy; the Body is a test for you and its instinctive drive is Satan, so the only way is to fight it, fight yourself and find your Spirit which has the potential to be like God for you were created to be in His image. The World is a distraction and made to be corrupting by mode of deception to indulge in it. You probably see that the Body calls for you to enjoy its chemical processes. Once in the second chapter God (appropriately) calls it "ape", primate (misquoted/misinterpreted by sectarians to mean that people were to become despicable apes).
No rituals, no weird stuff and in fact image-making of God is detrimental and against the advised decree of God due to the Body has a tendency to make physical beacons for itself (see Kabah in Mecca) or attribute force to lifeless items. God is within you; it is a symbiotic phenomenon and God spoke to Moses "I am who am I" and Jesus said "I am in the Father and the Father in me". That is the only way to Oneness and absorption/merging into the Oneness since there is only one existence, coexistence in God, and the Realm is at hand.
And the communication (connection) with God should be constant, nothing timed to occur according to some fixed schedule and calling unto God can occur spontaneously whenever required to receive guidance that you cannot channel directly intuitively without imploring. Otherwise just have faith YOU CAN and it will be so. Revere God by your perfect resemblance, worship is empty words for something that has no needs or can be charmed or bribed. Prostration should be done with the heart.
Sorry for flooding those who do not wish to hear with words. Please disregard my message.
Be safe
Emanuel -
Hi Fusion,
What you said about the Deen, can this be easily understood by commoners? What I mean is that the masses then, with no proper education and understanding, was deen come down to target intellectuals only?
It should not be so hard to understand in my opinion, but it is always possible to complicate things. However, I would argue that it actually is a test of intelligence, but it does not really include the massive need for education to grasp this but only an open mind and some careful reflection. What I said ought not to require much education to understand but it is mostly about common sense and what seems plausible. We live in a world of lies and religion has often been an instrument for political motives.
I am asking this because when you take for example a common person then or even now, the follow to deen is understood as following rituals. Any comment on how your understanding can be easily understood by every one with ease and was this the purpose of God rather than millions of people on earth in all times, understood God through rituals... does this means all of those people wasted their life... what would become of them in the next life.
The blunt answer is yes, they have wasted much of their focus on something in vain. The ritualism is a slow-to-die remnant from the age of Paganism when people had physical gods and things were hedonistic and they still are. It is pathetic that a religion 2015 still uses a beacon/idol for their god such as the big idol in Mecca. Even then people such as in Christianity also materialize their god such as that it becomes a distinctly separate object. But God does not work that way by those dynamics.
People do not need to know everything about the nature of God to pass the test, but it may be important to know their obstacles in life such as what to focus on. Most people fail to understand that their biggest stumbling block in life is their own Body which contains Satan (instinctive drive).
...was this the purpose of God rather than millions of people on earth in all times, understood God through rituals...
The purpose was like this God created Spirit copies of Himself albeit blank/undeveloped, one reason we are often called "Children of the Father by some prophets", and God also created a contradiction which was the World as we know it which was made to corrupt and deceive us, i.e. it is correct to say this is a test of intelligence because we have been deceived by our God on purpose. It is the Body that clouds our Spirit origin perception which Spirit is our real selves and every time we give in to its biological amusements and desires it strengthens its fog effect on the Spirit. The best way to countermeasure it all is to begin to fight the primitive nature of it by suppressing it and which ignorant people call extremist of who have not understood the contradiction in the World.
There are also people who take it too far by depriving it of necessary nutrition and even causes it malnutrition but it should be treated like a dog or cat by feeding it for as much as it needs but keep separated from it and not become it. It sounds somehow cruel to speak of our own Body like his but if one can distance themselves from it the better. We are however not supposed to become lifeless, inanimate and passive beings just because we keep our Body restrained but be alive in God being a mirror of Him sharing His qualities by the symbiosis between.
God will harvest the best souls which are then released from the "Flesh" to become angels and the failures will wither and die and their seed will grow again; they will experience 'Jahannom' which is a cycle of receiving "new skins" over and over again until they either break down their Spirit further or become completed/perfected up to God's standards. It is worth reflecting upon in what manner God refers to when it comes to "perfection". One key is to have immense empathy, empathy can take a person very far, just observe the teachings of the Messiah Jesus. But the essential parameter is actually to distance yourself from the Body's impulses, its crude nature.
According to me it is far more simple and explanatory than the sectarian version of the faith, but that is up to you.
The more indulgence is committed by the individual the more it succumbs to the Flesh and dependent it becomes. Its attachment, dependence and bonding to the "Flesh" can increase and thus the delusion also goes rampant. It is harder for a heavily deluded person to understand. People turn unable to see how primitive they have become and how driven by instincts they are.
Obviously all that I wrote about above can be studied in Quran if the poor book is interpreted as it is worthy of. People have made a joke of it even if little has been changed from since it was compiled. It is not like I have been sitting down and conjectured a lot but is the true account. This is how it goes when people take for granted that an interpretation is correct just because a long chain of interpreters have said it is so and then not ever challenge it might be faulty to begin with. To find the errors and then unwrap all falsehood is not that hard; it was not obvious and not hidden. The people who sat down those years ago did not know much at all what the text said but what was important to them was that they made a doctrine similar to tradition. They did not even know the nature of the word "allah".
I know people call me arrogant because of this, but I urge people to reflect on their own.
Be safe
Emanuel -
What you said about body and souls and skin over skin until the purity is reached, likes of Hindu religion where the main concept is the same which is reincarnations for the purpose to elevate your souls or you could also be downgraded , but the ultimate objective would still be to reach the height of being cleaned up and what remains is the pure soul.
Similarly Buddhism is not a religion(similar to the 3 religions we knows) but way of thinking about us and everything around us.
It talks about good things and a lot about soul and attitude towards taming your body wishes.Hence, there were people in the past who have more or less the same ideology as you are depicting in your posts on here. However do all of them were on the right path? or at present does one has to believe in the religion/book to be saved from God's wrath?
Cheers
Hi Fusion,
It should not be so hard to understand in my opinion, but it is always possible to complicate things. However, I would argue that it actually is a test of intelligence, but it does not really include the massive need for education to grasp this but only an open mind and some careful reflection. What I said ought not to require much education to understand but it is mostly about common sense and what seems plausible. We live in a world of lies and religion has often been an instrument for political motives.
The blunt answer is yes, they have wasted much of their focus on something in vain. The ritualism is a slow-to-die remnant from the age of Paganism when people had physical gods and things were hedonistic and they still are. It is pathetic that a religion 2015 still uses a beacon/idol for their god such as the big idol in Mecca. Even then people such as in Christianity also materialize their god such as that it becomes a distinctly separate object. But God does not work that way by those dynamics.
People do not need to know everything about the nature of God to pass the test, but it may be important to know their obstacles in life such as what to focus on. Most people fail to understand that their biggest stumbling block in life is their own Body which contains Satan (instinctive drive).
The purpose was like this God created Spirit copies of Himself albeit blank/undeveloped, one reason we are often called "Children of the Father by some prophets", and God also created a contradiction which was the World as we know it which was made to corrupt and deceive us, i.e. it is correct to say this is a test of intelligence because we have been deceived by our God on purpose. It is the Body that clouds our Spirit origin perception which Spirit is our real selves and every time we give in to its biological amusements and desires it strengthens its fog effect on the Spirit. The best way to countermeasure it all is to begin to fight the primitive nature of it by suppressing it and which ignorant people call extremist of who have not understood the contradiction in the World.
There are also people who take it too far by depriving it of necessary nutrition and even causes it malnutrition but it should be treated like a dog or cat by feeding it for as much as it needs but keep separated from it and not become it. It sounds somehow cruel to speak of our own Body like his but if one can distance themselves from it the better. We are however not supposed to become lifeless, inanimate and passive beings just because we keep our Body restrained but be alive in God being a mirror of Him sharing His qualities by the symbiosis between.
God will harvest the best souls which are then released from the "Flesh" to become angels and the failures will wither and die and their seed will grow again; they will experience 'Jahannom' which is a cycle of receiving "new skins" over and over again until they either break down their Spirit further or become completed/perfected up to God's standards. It is worth reflecting upon in what manner God refers to when it comes to "perfection". One key is to have immense empathy, empathy can take a person very far, just observe the teachings of the Messiah Jesus. But the essential parameter is actually to distance yourself from the Body's impulses, its crude nature.
According to me it is far more simple and explanatory than the sectarian version of the faith, but that is up to you.
The more indulgence is committed by the individual the more it succumbs to the Flesh and dependent it becomes. Its attachment, dependence and bonding to the "Flesh" can increase and thus the delusion also goes rampant. It is harder for a heavily deluded person to understand. People turn unable to see how primitive they have become and how driven by instincts they are.
Obviously all that I wrote about above can be studied in Quran if the poor book is interpreted as it is worthy of. People have made a joke of it even if little has been changed from since it was compiled. It is not like I have been sitting down and conjectured a lot but is the true account. This is how it goes when people take for granted that an interpretation is correct just because a long chain of interpreters have said it is so and then not ever challenge it might be faulty to begin with. To find the errors and then unwrap all falsehood is not that hard; it was not obvious and not hidden. The people who sat down those years ago did not know much at all what the text said but what was important to them was that they made a doctrine similar to tradition. They did not even know the nature of the word "allah".
I know people call me arrogant because of this, but I urge people to reflect on their own.
Be safe
Emanuel -
What you said about body and souls and skin over skin until the purity is reached, likes of Hindu religion where the main concept is the same which is reincarnations for the purpose to elevate your souls or you could also be downgraded , but the ultimate objective would still be to reach the height of being cleaned up and what remains is the pure soul.
That may well be, Quran teaches something similar. You can also remain just as you were, neither breaking it nor elevating yourself.
Similarly Buddhism is not a religion(similar to the 3 religions we knows) but way of thinking about us and everything around us.
It talks about good things and a lot about soul and attitude towards taming your body wishes.Quran teaches something similar. However in Buddhism they often exaggerate things such as pester the poor Body in unnecessary measures. And there is no need to keep some kind of Buddha statue, that is ancient ignorance. Buddha is a word with identical meaning as Nabi in Arabic, these people simply idolize their prophet in vain.
Hence, there were people in the past who have more or less the same ideology as you are depicting in your posts on here. However do all of them were on the right path? or at present does one has to believe in the religion/book to be saved from God's wrath?
There are no religions; more an approach to life or a life concept for an ulterior purpose. Quran mentions two perceptions; one is to seek Being As It ("imitation" and another is "seek completion". Those two are two ways of seeing things and the 'Completion' (Brahman/Rahman) approach is common in Indian faiths such as Hinduism. 'Being As It' (Allah) is originating in the Middle-East and could perhaps be seen as the original faith and it is thousands of years old, being corrupted by madmen and people who do not even understand the meaning of words such as Allah and Amin. Amin b'Allah means to "have an integrity as such as it". It is a misconception that mere belief does cut it but one has to realize themselves in the concept. Both original approaches argue that man was created to be in God's image as a mirror of It/Him and they must grow their Spirits to such level either seeing it as imitation/resemblance or completion by being free of flaws. Those are the authentic paths as by God, but supposedly it may be possible to approach it in some other way, but I doubt it is useful to complicate things any further.
Quran deals with arguments from both faith approaches and does try to reconcile between everyone and focuses on teaching people not to be hypocrites and deluded and speaks of being Sound (Muslim) (have clarity of soul). Anyone from any faith could listen to a Quranic Preacher since it all the time separates itself from religion and focuses on how to deal with life morals. It is a shame that a brood of vipers have had their hands on it and wrought havoc upon its interpretation. Although this was already prophesied and comes clear by being able to read chapter 36 in full. Obviously the scripture was meant to expose all the hypocrites.
It does also say that the ones who claim themselves as Chosen/Recognized (yahood) or Baptized (nasara*) to claim affiliation/recognition have a distraction from the inclination towards the ways of Abraham (lit. the Establisher) and do not become of the members
*Nasara is a word that means 'Saved' and it refers to that these people have salvation, they have solved their situation. I translated it as Baptized in lack of other terms. In Swedish I would have said "Fr?lst".
Quran is strictly against sectarianism and means that those sects are distractions from what you are supposed to do, and I can agree with that.
You have no need for sects because there are no rituals and stuff but only realization of your self.
Be safe'
Emanuel -
Did you also study the ways of Prophet Muhammad? If Quran was revealed to him then definitely he is believed to understood it the way it was meant (if that is what you also believe in , in your statements on here).
Prophet Muhammad is a fact of history and one can not deny his existence nor can shy away from all of the historical facts that are part of the history then (him and his companions).
Why is that we did not find the understanding of Quran and its central idea in practical sense in prophet's life or his companions or the people who came after shortly. I mean what I know fromhistorical facts is an Islam and understanding of practical implementation of Quran is tilted more towards the ritual sense.... there may be different branches much later like Sufism which takes a different view.But my main question remains, if quran teaching is close to what you understood, why then no proof of it is found in the companions of the prophet or perhaps there is and that history is lost and what we known today is NOT the islam (of rituals) that was actually followed by the prophet and his companions. (Rather we only know rituals, multiple wives, wars, lust for women, love for power and command etc).
Cheers
That may well be, Quran teaches something similar. You can also remain just as you were, neither breaking it nor elevating yourself.
Quran teaches something similar. However in Buddhism they often exaggerate things such as pester the poor Body in unnecessary measures. And there is no need to keep some kind of Buddha statue, that is ancient ignorance. Buddha is a word with identical meaning as Nabi in Arabic, these people simply idolize their prophet in vain.
There are no religions; more an approach to life or a life concept for an ulterior purpose. Quran mentions two perceptions; one is to seek Being As It ("imitation" and another is "seek completion". Those two are two ways of seeing things and the 'Completion' (Brahman/Rahman) approach is common in Indian faiths such as Hinduism. 'Being As It' (Allah) is originating in the Middle-East and could perhaps be seen as the original faith and it is thousands of years old, being corrupted by madmen and people who do not even understand the meaning of words such as Allah and Amin. Amin b'Allah means to "have an integrity as such as it". It is a misconception that mere belief does cut it but one has to realize themselves in the concept. Both original approaches argue that man was created to be in God's image as a mirror of It/Him and they must grow their Spirits to such level either seeing it as imitation/resemblance or completion by being free of flaws. Those are the authentic paths as by God, but supposedly it may be possible to approach it in some other way, but I doubt it is useful to complicate things any further.
Quran deals with arguments from both faith approaches and does try to reconcile between everyone and focuses on teaching people not to be hypocrites and deluded and speaks of being Sound (Muslim) (have clarity of soul). Anyone from any faith could listen to a Quranic Preacher since it all the time separates itself from religion and focuses on how to deal with life morals. It is a shame that a brood of vipers have had their hands on it and wrought havoc upon its interpretation. Although this was already prophesied and comes clear by being able to read chapter 36 in full. Obviously the scripture was meant to expose all the hypocrites.
It does also say that the ones who claim themselves as Chosen/Recognized (yahood) or Baptized (nasara*) to claim affiliation/recognition have a distraction from the inclination towards the ways of Abraham (lit. the Establisher) and do not become of the members
*Nasara is a word that means 'Saved' and it refers to that these people have salvation, they have solved their situation. I translated it as Baptized in lack of other terms. In Swedish I would have said "Fr?lst".
Quran is strictly against sectarianism and means that those sects are distractions from what you are supposed to do, and I can agree with that.
You have no need for sects because there are no rituals and stuff but only realization of your self.
Be safe'
Emanuel -
Hello against Fusion,
Did you also study the ways of Prophet Muhammad? If Quran was revealed to him then definitely he is believed to understood it the way it was meant (if that is what you also believe in , in your statements on here).
Prophet Muhammad is a fact of history and one can not deny his existence nor can shy away from all of the historical facts that are part of the history then (him and his companions).Much of that Muhammed is fake and invented for the religion Islam and the indoctrination to rally for war that occurred when these snakes abused Quran to interpret lot of warfare passages that are not there. It may well be that there was a man Muhammad but it may have been an impostor or they referred incorrectly to a man named Muhammed that they invented. No righteous man let alone being a prophet and instructor would behave the way he does as according to tradition.
It is also fairly obvious if Quran is interpreted as intended that most if not all of Islamic tradition is nonsense. It may refer to events that happened during the years they abused the word Muhammed, but the real text beneath talks about something else. Right now I do believe in very little without carefully verifying it myself first.
I know pretty much everything about the mainstream history about prophet Muhammed, but that does not say I believe in it. Also if this prophet ordered the assault and genocide on judeo-christians then he cannot be what was claimed. It is clear that the Islamic movement went out to assault and conquer the whole region very opposite of what Jesua and other prophets stand for. It is just to face it, it was a political movement and not so much to do with faith and God.
Quran pumps out hatred towards anyone who is a disbeliever/kafar and threatens punishment of Hell which is a fabrication in itself and these people should be held short and they can even be killed if they do not perform salat, their invented prostration ritual from another sectarian doctrine. It is obvious that its ancient interpreter worked hard on inciting hatred in those who listened to their mode of interpretation. Unfortunately for them, the real interpretation does contain none of this, making it obvious that everything was a hoax that happened in the 7th century AD.
Masjed Haram does not refer to any place, Kabah is just nonsense and the list goes on. It is just a big scam, mostly intended to raise nationalist feelings in the inhabitants of the region.
Why is that we did not find the understanding of Quran and its central idea in practical sense in prophet's life or his companions or the people who came after shortly. I mean what I know fromhistorical facts is an Islam and understanding of practical implementation of Quran is tilted more towards the ritual sense.... there may be different branches much later like Sufism which takes a different view.
Sufists are the saner of that crowd so to say, with some healthy ideas. It is closer to Gnosticism, which is the perception taught by Quran. They still have to drag along with the very lousy interpretation of Quran however, they may have been taught by remnant groups of Gnostics.
If people just realize that such as wudhu and salateh are scams they realize that Quran is also not aligned towards the ritual sense. They speak of how one should follow the faith when it speak of "Aqum al-salateh", salateh is an object formation based on the root (salawa) which means "to follow behind (someone/something)" and whether physically or abstractly is not specified and the AL prefix and object suffix makes it such kind of adjectival noun giving attribute to the earlier Qum verb. (qum) means straight/firm/upright as a word. It thus can be understood as "Wa Aquyum al-salateh" "And is following/adhering firmly" (since in Arabic the attribute adjective follows the word in question). "Is following" is because I cannot translate it into English in any more coherent way, but it is worth regarding the AL article's literally morphological breakdown "Be Such - Follow - ing" and describes a condition for the word it modifies being an adjective.
Compare my usage of Qum as straight/firm with the phrase "A' hadana sarat al-mesteQEEM" in chapter 16 where qum instead acts like in the above example giving attribute to sarata.
Above explanation can be tried on several occurrences of al-salateh in Quran to observe that in many cases it even fits in the absurd state the available interpretations are in, particularly when the context teaches a lesson of how to be and then says "Aqum al-salateh" as in being uprightly following what was just taught.
But my main question remains, if quran teaching is close to what you understood, why then no proof of it is found in the companions of the prophet or perhaps there is and that history is lost and what we known today is NOT the islam (of rituals) that was actually followed by the prophet and his companions. (Rather we only know rituals, multiple wives, wars, lust for women, love for power and command etc).
The reason is because there simply was no Islamic era with a prophet Muhammad but that was a political movement to inspire patriotism and for Persian clerics with greed to conquer Persia which they did quite early during that era. They even abused the word Arab.
Rituals - Bad
Multiple wives - Bad
Wars - Bad
Lust for women - Bad
Love for power and command - BadThe so-called companions of Muhammad were nothing but the impostors who put everything in motion during their time and invented the sect Islam and even then among themselves they had immense fights for dominion.
If you are looking for proof you are looking in the wrong place. You will not find it with these people or their dirty hands on an innocent book. It is fairly similar to as if someone was throwing mud on the book first and then tried to read it while letters did appear faded and added a lot of imagination.
You cannot find the trace to this history because everything from scratch is a scam and they got their hands on an uninterpreted book called Quran in a language they could not understand. From thence they interpreted it to suit their agenda and fit their religious doctrine in it and tailor it so that it suited their political motives. They may even have been deluded that they could understand it. The actual book stems from a script that was invented a maximum of 200 years before the alleged Muhammad events by the Nabetans and it is commonly thought that this people adhered to a form of Gnostic faith and resided in northern Arabia, and not surprisingly Quran also reveals a Gnostic-style faith. How it got in the wrong hands is still a mystery to me. I still smell fishiness about the whole Islamic age.
It appears that Persia was conquered led by Persian traitors who organized the very same religion/sect, and it was probably organized in northern Arabia or even west of Shush. They may have abused the superstitious nature of the tribal culture of this time to rally people. It is also not unknown that Persia was weakened by internal power struggles just during the era that it was harshly attacked by these Arab tribes fanatical due to religious indoctrination abusing the word Allah that they did not even know what it means. The Arab nations in the north were also not undeveloped barbarians but they had benefited greatly from the Roman influence and it was likely not hard to get arms for the troops and they were rich being trading nations and gateways to the Far-East.
If you have source-checked anything, you know that prior to the Islamic Crusades, the language Aramaic was the most commonly spoken one all over Arabia and the Middle-East except for some South Arabian tribes, but the power elite was located in the north. After the Islamic Crusades then suddenly Aramaic dies out almost completely when the power-hungry Islamist elite decides that everyone should speak Arabic, except for Persia which keeps the privilege of their ancient language except that they change into the Arabic script. That is also conspicuous.
Nationalist Persians, usually against Islam, hold a grudge against the arabization and thanks to them beneath the surface you can see the clerical indoctrination on the nation. They did not even get to keep their ancient word "khoda" (the self) for God despite that Allah (as as it) almost means the same but in third-person. But the Faith that Quran teaches it originates from Medes/Pars/Shush and today's Iraq. Before the forced conversion many people in this region were Gnostics with various perceptions and adhered to a similar faith. But within the own borders of the old Persian Empire it grew forth a Pagan-style faith that slowly become antagonized full of rituals and Pagan behavior. It saw God distinctly separate from existence and used focal points much like in Islam. After Jesua/Jesus had been there and the Christization begun then probably these people saw a threat to their traditions.
Well, I could go on forever. There needs to be a limit of how much efforts I spend on each case.
Be Safe
Amenuel -
My goodness Main of faith, you talks are so much different to the ones other Quranists I have come across... oh dear.
Of course I cannot confirm or deny what you said below for am just a student and have no grasp of the history as well as Arabic language. However I live among bedu arabs and I known their traditions and how they look at Quran and sunna, at least the ones around me, they do have the Quranists opinion but they would not go far as your thoughts go regarding Muhammad peace be upon him and his companions. I guess I do not know whats in your head, and knowledge in full so I can not deduce anything for now.
For example, you said Muhammad which is mentioned in Quran on several occasions (with names like Muhammad,ahmad, mudasser, You, etc etc) is NOT the muhmmad that is portrayed in the Islamic world that we know of. How do you clarify the revelation of Quran on Muhammad? Do you actually believe in every verse of quran that is there in the book that we know of today, if yes then you must have a different interpretations when events and stories and names are mentioned in quran with respect to the messenger Muhammad.I am at a loss as to what is your point of view about the physical nature of Islam? You said a prophet can not order killings but then the sources for this could be hadiths, where does it mention in Quran that Prophet muhmmad ordered killings of Christians. What about the verses in quran where Christians and jews are mentioned with names and muslims are warned never to take them as companions? The interpretation may be different but the fact remains about naming people/sect/nations?
Would you please clarify your belief about Quran, who brought it,on whom and who is Muhammad as the one mentioned in Quran? and how come the history is so different from what you believe... yet I like to know how do you interpret the context/history of Quran as it was revealed and the people of that time??
I am asking these questions because I really like the way you address the soul and body concepts but then am at a loss with respect to your concepts about Quran linked to Muhammad and companions,, what is the physical TRUTH then? what has happened in actual fact and where are the sources for your belief?
CheersHello against Fusion,
Much of that Muhammed is fake and invented for the religion Islam and the indoctrination to rally for war that occurred when these snakes abused Quran to interpret lot of warfare passages that are not there. It may well be that there was a man Muhammad but it may have been an impostor or they referred incorrectly to a man named Muhammed that they invented. No righteous man let alone being a prophet and instructor would behave the way he does as according to tradition.
It is also fairly obvious if Quran is interpreted as intended that most if not all of Islamic tradition is nonsense. It may refer to events that happened during the years they abused the word Muhammed, but the real text beneath talks about something else. Right now I do believe in very little without carefully verifying it myself first.
I know pretty much everything about the mainstream history about prophet Muhammed, but that does not say I believe in it. Also if this prophet ordered the assault and genocide on judeo-christians then he cannot be what was claimed. It is clear that the Islamic movement went out to assault and conquer the whole region very opposite of what Jesua and other prophets stand for. It is just to face it, it was a political movement and not so much to do with faith and God.
Quran pumps out hatred towards anyone who is a disbeliever/kafar and threatens punishment of Hell which is a fabrication in itself and these people should be held short and they can even be killed if they do not perform salat, their invented prostration ritual from another sectarian doctrine. It is obvious that its ancient interpreter worked hard on inciting hatred in those who listened to their mode of interpretation. Unfortunately for them, the real interpretation does contain none of this, making it obvious that everything was a hoax that happened in the 7th century AD.
Masjed Haram does not refer to any place, Kabah is just nonsense and the list goes on. It is just a big scam, mostly intended to raise nationalist feelings in the inhabitants of the region.
Sufists are the saner of that crowd so to say, with some healthy ideas. It is closer to Gnosticism, which is the perception taught by Quran. They still have to drag along with the very lousy interpretation of Quran however, they may have been taught by remnant groups of Gnostics.
If people just realize that such as wudhu and salateh are scams they realize that Quran is also not aligned towards the ritual sense. They speak of how one should follow the faith when it speak of "Aqum al-salateh", salateh is an object formation based on the root (salawa) which means "to follow behind (someone/something)" and whether physically or abstractly is not specified and the AL prefix and object suffix makes it such kind of adjectival noun giving attribute to the earlier Qum verb. (qum) means straight/firm/upright as a word. It thus can be understood as "Wa Aquyum al-salateh" "And is following/adhering firmly" (since in Arabic the attribute adjective follows the word in question). "Is following" is because I cannot translate it into English in any more coherent way, but it is worth regarding the AL article's literally morphological breakdown "Be Such - Follow - ing" and describes a condition for the word it modifies being an adjective.
Compare my usage of Qum as straight/firm with the phrase "A' hadana sarat al-mesteQEEM" in chapter 16 where qum instead acts like in the above example giving attribute to sarata.
Above explanation can be tried on several occurrences of al-salateh in Quran to observe that in many cases it even fits in the absurd state the available interpretations are in, particularly when the context teaches a lesson of how to be and then says "Aqum al-salateh" as in being uprightly following what was just taught.
The reason is because there simply was no Islamic era with a prophet Muhammad but that was a political movement to inspire patriotism and for Persian clerics with greed to conquer Persia which they did quite early during that era. They even abused the word Arab.
Rituals - Bad
Multiple wives - Bad
Wars - Bad
Lust for women - Bad
Love for power and command - BadThe so-called companions of Muhammad were nothing but the impostors who put everything in motion during their time and invented the sect Islam and even then among themselves they had immense fights for dominion.
If you are looking for proof you are looking in the wrong place. You will not find it with these people or their dirty hands on an innocent book. It is fairly similar to as if someone was throwing mud on the book first and then tried to read it while letters did appear faded and added a lot of imagination.
You cannot find the trace to this history because everything from scratch is a scam and they got their hands on an uninterpreted book called Quran in a language they could not understand. From thence they interpreted it to suit their agenda and fit their religious doctrine in it and tailor it so that it suited their political motives. They may even have been deluded that they could understand it. The actual book stems from a script that was invented a maximum of 200 years before the alleged Muhammad events by the Nabetans and it is commonly thought that this people adhered to a form of Gnostic faith and resided in northern Arabia, and not surprisingly Quran also reveals a Gnostic-style faith. How it got in the wrong hands is still a mystery to me. I still smell fishiness about the whole Islamic age.
It appears that Persia was conquered led by Persian traitors who organized the very same religion/sect, and it was probably organized in northern Arabia or even west of Shush. They may have abused the superstitious nature of the tribal culture of this time to rally people. It is also not unknown that Persia was weakened by internal power struggles just during the era that it was harshly attacked by these Arab tribes fanatical due to religious indoctrination abusing the word Allah that they did not even know what it means. The Arab nations in the north were also not undeveloped barbarians but they had benefited greatly from the Roman influence and it was likely not hard to get arms for the troops and they were rich being trading nations and gateways to the Far-East.
If you have source-checked anything, you know that prior to the Islamic Crusades, the language Aramaic was the most commonly spoken one all over Arabia and the Middle-East except for some South Arabian tribes, but the power elite was located in the north. After the Islamic Crusades then suddenly Aramaic dies out almost completely when the power-hungry Islamist elite decides that everyone should speak Arabic, except for Persia which keeps the privilege of their ancient language except that they change into the Arabic script. That is also conspicuous.
Nationalist Persians, usually against Islam, hold a grudge against the arabization and thanks to them beneath the surface you can see the clerical indoctrination on the nation. They did not even get to keep their ancient word "khoda" (the self) for God despite that Allah (as as it) almost means the same but in third-person. But the Faith that Quran teaches it originates from Medes/Pars/Shush and today's Iraq. Before the forced conversion many people in this region were Gnostics with various perceptions and adhered to a similar faith. But within the own borders of the old Persian Empire it grew forth a Pagan-style faith that slowly become antagonized full of rituals and Pagan behavior. It saw God distinctly separate from existence and used focal points much like in Islam. After Jesua/Jesus had been there and the Christization begun then probably these people saw a threat to their traditions.
Well, I could go on forever. There needs to be a limit of how much efforts I spend on each case.
Be Safe
Amenuel -
Of course I cannot confirm or deny what you said below for am just a student and have no grasp of the history as well as Arabic language. However I live among bedu arabs and I known their traditions and how they look at Quran and sunna, at least the ones around me, they do have the Quranists opinion but they would not go far as your thoughts go regarding Muhammad peace be upon him and his companions. I guess I do not know whats in your head, and knowledge in full so I can not deduce anything for now.
I understand your situation and the deception from sectarian sources is really bad. Well, the Beduin Arab tradition is in many cases the source to the mainstream interpretation because these were the people it was supposed to appeal to.
I have no problems with Arabs as ancestry because it is a noble people with such background from Abraham. But there is a difference between real Arabs and wannabe Arabs, particularly when it comes to Spiritual level. There is also a mysticism behind the Arab people. In recent time I have grown in interest of this people, not contemporary people but the ancient people.
For example, you said Muhammad which is mentioned in Quran on several occasions (with names like Muhammad,ahmad, mudasser, You, etc etc) is NOT the muhmmad that is portrayed in the Islamic world that we know of. How do you clarify the revelation of Quran on Muhammad? Do you actually believe in every verse of quran that is there in the book that we know of today, if yes then you must have a different interpretations when events and stories and names are mentioned in quran with respect to the messenger Muhammad.
I have not yet encountered any passage of Quran that seems deliberately changed or added. However, the book does differ vastly from how people generally decipher its passages to the point of it being completely incompatible with the Islamic tradition and revealing a faith that is very Gnostic in style and follows similar tones as those Jesua/Jesus taught. The focus is very much on spirituality and personal conduct in many different scenarios and the second chapter alone contains like three lectures that stretch over dozens of passages each.
I am at a loss as to what is your point of view about the physical nature of Islam? You said a prophet can not order killings but then the sources for this could be hadiths, where does it mention in Quran that Prophet muhmmad ordered killings of Christians. What about the verses in quran where Christians and jews are mentioned with names and muslims are warned never to take them as companions? The interpretation may be different but the fact remains about naming people/sect/nations?
These were historical accounts over data that stems from a person called Muhammed. In Quran the prophet is very bitter in tone and "God" is very hostile and full of hate, and it shows that it tries heavily to rally for war which is contradictory to the taught style of the prophets who preached something else.
Would you please clarify your belief about Quran, who brought it,on whom and who is Muhammad as the one mentioned in Quran? and how come the history is so different from what you believe... yet I like to know how do you interpret the context/history of Quran as it was revealed and the people of that time??
The Holy Spirit made it written.
I do not know Muhammed at this time, I need more data. The traditional Muhammed is not an authentic prophet that is for sure though, very unrighteous man. I understand why there is so much blackmailing by Christians etc.
I need to get to passages containing the word Muhammed (which can be both a name and a standard word like every other name in Arabic), although I have received inspiration that Muhammed is a real person but the question is who.
I am asking these questions because I really like the way you address the soul and body concepts but then am at a loss with respect to your concepts about Quran linked to Muhammad and companions,, what is the physical TRUTH then? what has happened in actual fact and where are the sources for your belief?
I wish I owned a time machine and could go back right to the action, but I can base my resultant reinterpretation to the conclusion that something is very fishy about the mainstream tradition concerning Muhammed since it is incompatible with basically everything that the mainstream doctrine stands for. The Author of Quran does not
Use any reference to any separate Hell
Spit out as much hatred as there is in the mainstream interpretations, not even a tiny percentage
Say its followers are to abide in some paradise
Have any separate mystical figure called Satan as an enemy to mankind
Mean there is a person called Ebless
Say afterlife means living in a Worldly/physical paradise
Diminish the importance of the Mosaic Decree, i.e. the Ten Commandments or what Jesua/Jesus teaches in the Injeel as a way of elaboration on the ancient Decree
Have such exaggerated emphasis on shirk/idolatry, it is mainly a distraction and "dubious" practice according to it
Go against its own commandments (hypocritical) by making God jealous and emotional in any way when people go against His will
Mention warfare even half as much as the traditional interpretation, it is perhaps a minority number of passages at most, the culprit is an interpretation error with qatal
See Himself as a separate entity but repeatedly talks about a union (ahad) of Itself in Allah, for those who do like HimThere are also factors that the interpreters did miss completely or partially that the Author of Quran wants to proclaim
The Body is your main adversary (the word for Body is misinterpreted as paradise ironically enough)
You were placed in your Body and the World to intentionally be deluded through a special test
You are a Spirit but you are made to believe that your Body is the real you
That your Spirit was made in God's own image
Satan is your instinctive drive
Instincts (Shaytiin) are a real problem for you
The World is just a contradiction and was made to intentionally corrupt and deceive
The World attachment is Jahannom (explained as testing ground)
Those who fail the test have to experience being attached to the World continuously (Jahannom)
As long as the Spirit is not destroyed there is always a chance for salvation, although the chances are obviously slim for huge sinners that may be reborn blind or utterly handicapped. Takes strong willpower.
If you succeed you are an angel/maleikateh and you exist in God as your own independent (sub)Consciousness, bodiless/ethereal and you rule alongside God in symbiosis as the mirror outwards
People who do not realize God's plot or who they are, are referred to as lifeless (al-mowt)
Teaches that you are a son/daughter of God if you nurture your soul, and can become as perfect as God
That Isaiah as a prophet is mentioned in Quran, and the initials (Ya Siin) of chapter 36 refers to him.
That He (God) is referred to as Father already in the second chapter of Quran
That Bani Israel is a metaphor for "Children of the Chief", i.e. Children of the Lord" (God) and this does not have any biological ties to any peopleOkay. I suppose I could easily double the list, but it is enough for now.
Be safe
Amenuel
