The infamous 4:34--Verse on Society, not spouse issues
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Salam Arnold,
What if we use the classical arabic definitions for r-j-l and n-s-a which would be
(ra-jeem-lam) HW 380-381, LL Vol 3 pgs 209-213
- to go on foot, walk
- to march
HW 1125, LL Vol 8 pgs 39-40
(nun-seen-alif)- to put off, postpone, delay, defer, procrastinate
- to allow one time to repay a debt
- long life longetivity
My current understanding of this verse and these words in particular is that we are still using "the erronous explanations of the Quran that were written 300 after the blessed Prophet under the influence of non-Quranic sources." to explain the Holy Quran.
If we stop forcing these words to mean "man" and "woman" the Quran opens up in a whole new way.
But, I think we've had this discussion before http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13124.msg109747#msg109747
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam Arnab,
Dictionaries are not enough to understand the Quran. Your idea of Rajjal looks interresting the first time you read it, but it does not hold when you use Tasreef, cross-reference. See all other verses where Rajjal is present
http//www.textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%84
475 How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah and of the feeble among men\alrajjil and of the women and the children who are crying Our Lord! Bring us forth from out this town of which the people are oppressors! Oh, give us from thy presence some protecting friend! Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender!
498Except the feeble among men\alrajjil, and the women, and the children, who are unable to devise a plan and are not shown a way.
781Lo! ye come with lust unto men\alrajjil instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk.
How would those on foot fit in this verse? And there are to many other examples where it does not fit. The Quran shows the true meanings. Your theory on that Rajjal is not gender based and means 'on foot' only does not hold when researched in the Quran, maybe only in a few verses. The Quran must be translated to its rootmeaning, but still the word is then determined by cross-reference and context.
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Peace Arnold,
This is a global problem
"Japan isn't alone in worrying about the need to encourage births.
In the 25-nation European Union, the average birth rate is around 1.5, dropping to less than 1.3 in some countries, including Greece, Spain, Italy and new EU member nations in eastern Europe where fertility rates slumped after the collapse of communism. Last month, President Vladimir Putin called population declines of hundreds of thousands a year one of Russia's most serious problems and urged parliament to offer financial incentives for families to have more children.
""In China and India the problem is the precise opposite.
China?s unethical one child policy is causing many problems voodoo. Since most families want a son many women are aborting females, in my Geography class my teacher showed us a newspaper article about an abandoned newborn Chinese girl dumped on the streets, many passengers walked by ignoring the baby, then finally a man picked it up chucked her away. Inevitably the ratio of males and females in the country will cause massive problems in the future. India has a more benign policy of encouraging people to have fewer children i.e. teaching the kids a song and dance about having just 2 children. India is so poor that in some areas girls as young as 11 are turning to prostitution and having sex up to 30 times a day.
It would be more convenient if people from China and India immigrated to countries where population decline is a problem, instead expecting women in them countries to have more babies and forcing Chinese and expecting Indian women to have less children. That way everybody is happy ;D.
Of course they can and must work, but they must not postpone children in preference of a carriere as this will burden her and society with deformed children.
is the 'and must work' your opinion or your interpretation of the Quran? Coz I hate work -[, ideally I would live off my husbands income forever if I ever get married! ignore eat.
God bless
peace -
Salaam Angel,
This verse refers to keeping balance in society. China's solution creates unbalance, and is thus the wrong approach. But both India's and China's problem have to do with Economical status. It is proven that the Economical status of people also determines their birthrate. The poorer they are, the more children they have. So moving them to other countries is no solution at all. India and China's population must be educated and their economy must be better organised so that there are less poor people. This would solve their birthrate problem. Otherwise you can keep moving them to other countries.
They are the direct opposite of the West where people who are highly educated and have a high economical status wait to long with having children. And thus end up mostly childless or with a defected child. Although scientifical aid helps, they deviate from natural birth.
The Quran always tries to create balance in a society. China goes to the other extreme by restricting childbirth, causing gender-preference. Also they do not solve the true cause of overpopulation, which is education and economics. Other countries, people wait to long, and thus the countries are struck by to low birthrates. The Quran seeks a middle.
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In Pakistan people have massive families; in the UK people from a Pakistani origin have massive families too ~ even though they may be rich and well-educated. The reason they do that is because it?s part of our culture to have loads of children, and many British Pakistanis (even third generation, that are about my age) have not abandoned the culture of their country of origin.
There?s also the fact that some Asian families won?t stop having a child until they get a boy, and some Asian families want several boys so when they get married they will have a wide selection of sister in-laws they can choose from to look after them in their old age. So emigrating would help D.
peace
peace -
Salam Arnold,
Perhaps the problem is that when one does a quick search of all the places where the r-j-l and n-s-a roots are located in the quran one tends to only re-translate those particular roots and leaves the rest of the verses improperly translated and so of course one could stop there proclaiming that it doesn't "fit."
All the words have to be properly translated in order for it to make sense.
Salam,
Arnab -
In Pakistan people have massive families; in the UK people from a Pakistani origin have massive families too ~ even though they may be rich and well-educated. The reason they do that is because its part of our culture to have loads of children, and many British Pakistanis (even third generation, that are about my age) have not abandoned the culture of their country of origin.
Theres also the fact that some Asian families wont stop having a child until they get a boy, and some Asian families want several boys so when they get married they will have a wide selection of sister in-laws they can choose from to look after them in their old age. So emigrating would help .
This is not about education as for example being a doctor, this has to do with culteral development.
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Salaam Arnab,
Your statement is certainly true on some occasions. This is why I also presented verses which would not have this problem. I'm always open to new ideas, so I will await your work on this subject.
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Salam Arnold,
Your statement is certainly true on some occasions. This is why I also presented verses which would not have this problem. I'm always open to new ideas, so I will await your work on this subject.
Actually, I'm working on that as we speak. I'm trying to piece together the ancient texts based on all the information we know about the evolution of the semitic languages and their possible definitions. Not an easy task, I assure you. And, not one that is completed over night. However I am enjoying the spiritual journey. I'll try to share what I learn as I go. So far my current understanding of r-j-l and n-s-a have been given.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
I thought I'd add the definition for the word D-R-B in Arabics the ancient semitic roots based on the pictographs
Note you may want to read this post first
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13931.msg120425#msg120425
D
The entrance of the ancient tent was covered by a curtain suspended from a horizontal pole. The picture of this letter represents the "door" of the tent.
The door hangs down over the opening of the tent.
Possible Meanings Hang, Entrance, Door, etc....
R
The picture is the head of a man which is "raised" up to look.
The head, as the top of the body is representative of anything that is at the top, head or beginning of something.
Possible Meanings Top, beginning, thoughts (inside the head), etc.
B
The ancients lived in goat hair tents which were divided into two halves, male and female sections, and divided by a wall. The above picture is a representation of the floorplan to the tent. The tent was the place where the family laid their "bed".
The function of the tent is to provide a covering for the family.Possible Meanings house, family, home etc
So each pictograph has many different but related meanings. And when the letters are combined together you almost get a picture story.
In Hebrew the only related word I could find was d-r-b-y-n (Strong's #01861). It is usually translated as "goad."
In English goad is defined as the followingnoun
Something that encourages, urges, or drives; a stimulus. I would imagine like a stick that used to drive cattle or other animals.
verb
(used with object) to prick or drive with, or as if with, a goad; prod; incite.Hope this helps in the quest for the true definition of d-r-b.
Salam,
Arnab -
I have written an article on verse 434 of the Qur'an, a verse which has commonly been misinterpreted to justify violence against women. I have created a website to publish this article www.quranverse434.com